[VS] BM Killer B and DSM Kabuto vs EMS Madara

[Thesaurus]

Spoiler

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madaras PS blade outright failed to detonate the TBB, yet his shockwaves can somehow cut the TBBs or make them explode when it has already failed to do it in canon?

especially when we also consider the fact that if madaras PS sword could really detonate the TBB then there is no way he could have infused his PS blade with kyuubis TBB,

They were pierced while they were still being formed, not after they were formed. If you notice closely enough you will see chakra almost spill when it's pierced, and then after that you'll notice the circular marks around the TBB suggesting it's been formed and finished.

If a PS slash makes contact with it, it will surely make it explode. It would either cut it in half or force detonation due to an equal or greater force colliding with it. That's how TBB detonates in the first place (unless it travels a sufficient enough distance for it to detonate by itself, which won't be the case here).

PS cuts everyone up with little difficulty, this thread is a joke and everyone who is denying this is a joke as well.

How does one slash kill bee???? Lmao

Ay cut off his horn cleanly with a single slash. PS has the penetrative capacity of a million of those attacks. When Hachibi was inside TBB his horns showed no sign of damage. Hence PS has far greater energy per area than TBB, whereas TBB has far greater AOE.

 

[Bronze]

@Bold is exactly why its a pointless location. No point of the location if its going to be destroyed by BM Bee's body.

Then take it with the op.

time measurements dont matter here. On paper we seen it activate enough time to block TBB, thats what I expect here. I dont see where Kurama was effected by his own TBB, Im sure it was just SS pound him on the ground. Even then thats not the same thing, using an animal, on all 4 legs, being push down =/= a tall construct, standing on two legs being "pushed" forward.

I don't quite understand you here. Your premise is Bee shooting 4 continuous TBB, which Madara counters by instantaneously activating PS. The time measurements matters because Madara's defence activation is faster than Bee's attack. Then you're mentioning 4 or 2 legs that I don't know what it's meant to be.

No, my premise is Manda traveling underground. If a tall construct is slashing 360, its hitbox isnt touching ground. Its not even hitting Bee.

What you fail to realize is, BM Bee is small in comparison to PS. So in actuality, the way PS swinging its sword will be bottom angle. [

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] [

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] So it's hitting the ground aiming at Bee, and the force is dispersed taking out the ground where Manda is hiding at.

The sound would have to reach Madara himself, in which cannot due to shock-waves repelling sound-waves.

 

[KidGamer65]

How does one slash kill bee???? Lmao

It's a slash that can cut multiple Mountains. (Inb4 that nonsense "Mountain Tip" argument" as if it changes anything) Tanking BD means just about jack when he got wrecked by it. Not to mention PS Slash is basically a much more focused Bijuu Dama. Madara was about to run B through with a Susanoo blade. Bijuu were piercing into his skin. PS Slash easily kills him.

You have proof?

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. And considering we have feats of stabilizing "full presentation" via against Gokage, I dont see what you mean.

1.Iso Susanoo=PS on Kurama.

2. To get PS, Madara has to stabilize his Susanoo.

3. So he had to have stabilized Susanoo before he equipped it to Kurama. The full presentation is completely irrelevant here.

Then there's the obvious handsign that Madara's Armored Susanoo is making. The same hand sign it made when it stabilized itself against the Gokage.

That wasnt the best description (even though I said almost).

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, would be better description. Plus like I said Bronze.

What in the world? Please read that again. SS is running. Literally no panel in this Manga shows it losing it's balance.

The attack patterns are completely different. Kurama's blast behind SS, as the blades pass by all SS arms it encountered. Im suggesting the blast it will be different since its a direct hit, yet alone from the front. Plus different scenario on two feet being then pushing something down yet alone, on 4 legs.

No, it wasn't. That explosion was the combination of both attacks and it covered the whole entire battlefield. PS tanks Bijuu Dama with ease. That simple.

 

[ARGUS]

They were pierced while they were still being formed, not after they were formed. If you notice closely enough you will see chakra almost spill when it's pierced, and then after that you'll notice the circular marks around the TBB suggesting it's been formed and finished.

not seeing how that proves your point, because if PS sword had enough power, than the TBB would have been dispelled regardless, yet that didnt happen and instead was fully functional

not seeing how it was pierced during its formation either, considering the bomb was formed and only then the PS sword was wrapped around it
you would need some more proof to validate your assertion since these scans clearly show why the bomb wont detonate upon contact with the PS shockwave

If a PS slash makes contact with it, it will surely make it explode. It would either cut it in half or force detonation due to an equal or greater force colliding with it. That's how TBB detonates in the first place (unless it travels a sufficient enough distance for it to detonate by itself, which won't be the case here).

Except its not the force that will cause it to detonate, but the momentum
momentum = mass * velocity,

TBBs are heavy and dense mass of chakra and travel at immense veloctiies considering the TBB travelled the across the entire sea within a second,

PS shockwaves have no mass and are inferior to a slash coming from the direct blade which already failed to detonate the bomb
leaving the only option that the velocity of a PS shockwave is soo much larger than TBBs that its huge gap in mass barely plays any role, but unfortunately it isnt, so this wont be happening

PS cuts everyone up with little difficulty, this thread is a joke and everyone who is denying this is a joke as well.

Never disagreed with this, so im not sure if this is targeted at me

 

[Thesaurus]

not seeing how that proves your point, because if PS sword had enough power, than the TBB would have been dispelled regardless, yet that didnt happen and instead was fully functional

not seeing how it was pierced during its formation either, considering the bomb was formed and only then the PS sword was wrapped around it
you would need some more proof to validate your assertion since these scans clearly show why the bomb wont detonate upon contact with the PS shockwave

What? I'm saying when the PS pierced the TBB it wasn't compressed yet, it was just free flowing energy being formed into a ball.

No, you read manga from right to left. It was pierced and only after that did the circle marks appear after they have appeared countless times in the manga (post TBB formation/compression).

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Except its not the force that will cause it to detonate, but the momentum
momentum = mass * velocity,

TBBs are heavy and dense mass of chakra and travel at immense veloctiies considering the TBB travelled the across the entire sea within a second,

If an equal or stronger force makes contact with TBB, then the equal or stronger force will trigger detonation. An equal or stronger force would stop its momentum given the two powers are colliding.

And a PS slash carved mountains that were huge distances away without losing momentum from the panels we saw.

PS shockwaves have no mass and are inferior to a slash coming from the direct blade which already failed to detonate the bomb
leaving the only option that the velocity of a PS shockwave is soo much larger than TBBs that its huge gap in mass barely plays any role, but unfortunately it isnt, so this wont be happening

They don't need a mass to have an effect on the TBB ball itself. @bold what? Are you suggesting the thrust of the sword into that TBB ball was equivalent to the slash of a sword which created shockwaves powerful enough to destroy mountains far away? I seriously hope you aren't, given no shockwave was released during the swords thrust.

Never disagreed with this, so im not sure if this is targeted at me

It was not

 

[ARGUS]

What? I'm saying when the PS pierced the TBB it wasn't compressed yet, it was just free flowing energy being formed into a ball.

No, you read manga from right to left. It was pierced and only after that did the circle marks appear after they have appeared countless times in the manga (post TBB formation/compression).

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Look at the scan more properly,
the TBB is already formed and only then the PS sword is pierced through
had the PS sword been inserted midway, then we would have seen kurama still forming the TBB yet that wasnt the case since the blade was only inserted after the bomb was formed,

there was absolutely no change on the TBB itself after the PS sword went through since it wasnt charged by kurama anymore,
meaning that it wasnt just free compressed energy, so youre wrong on that one,

and im well aware that you read from right to left,

If an equal or stronger force makes contact with TBB, then the equal or stronger force will trigger detonation. An equal or stronger force would stop its momentum given the two powers are colliding.

And i have already explained why this wont be the case

And a PS slash carved mountains that were huge distances away without losing momentum from the panels we saw.

Never said that, but what you fail to understand is that the mass also plays a role here,

if a ball moves at 50 m/s
then the affect that a bowling ball would have on you would be far far more than the affect that a ping pong ball would have,


not to mention that what do you mean without losing momentum?
if you mean how it cut more than one mountain then the answer is simple, since madara swung his blade in a 360 degree motion meaning that the slashes were aimed at all the mountains

They don't need a mass to have an effect on the TBB ball itself. @bold what? Are you suggesting the thrust of the sword into that TBB ball was equivalent to the slash of a sword which created shockwaves powerful enough to destroy mountains far away? I seriously hope you aren't, given no shockwave was released during the swords thrust.

You said pierce and detonate the bomb,
well to peirce the bomb the blade needs to be strong enough to do that,
the blade pierced through the bomb but it didnt detonate it, so if madara swings his blade or thrusts it, the result would be the same, the bomb wont detonate

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Fūck

Killer Bee starts in BM

but the cave is large enough


Deal with it

That changes nothing, since everyone is arguing that Madara jumps to PS.

I don't quite understand you here. Your premise is Bee shooting 4 continuous TBB, which Madara counters by instantaneously activating PS. The time measurements matters because Madara's defence activation is faster than Bee's attack. Then you're mentioning 4 or 2 legs that I don't know what it's meant to be.

Bee's attack came out as fast as Kurama's TBB, so Im going by the speed it took for un-stabilized PS to counter a tbb.

I think you or KG were arguing that there will be no back peddling from the blast force of TBB. You guys (I think?) use Kurama+unstablized as an example of not being pushed back.

My counter is none of these "beings" are standing on two legs to be pushed by the blast force. Kurama is on four legs while VOTE unstablized PS can't lose balance with no feet. So the scenario's will act differently.

What you fail to realize is, BM Bee is small in comparison to PS. So in actuality, the way PS swinging its sword will be bottom angle. [

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] [

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] So it's hitting the ground aiming at Bee, and the force is dispersed taking out the ground where Manda is hiding at.

I didn't fail at anything, your premise was a 360 slash. A 360 slash isnt hitting a midget compare to your self as comparing PS to BM Bee.

By the time Manda travels underground, swinging the sword downward would be pointless, since it would have made it close to PS already. And wouldnt that have Bee slide away from the slash, since he just needs to dodge the sword then the shockwave itself.

The sound would have to reach Madara himself, in which cannot due to shock-waves repelling sound-waves.

As I said before shockwaves are produce from the tip of the sword. An omni direction soundwave, up close, bypasses its hitbox to blow it away.

1.Iso Susanoo=PS on Kurama.

2. To get PS, Madara has to stabilize his Susanoo.

3. So he had to have stabilized Susanoo before he equipped it to Kurama. The full presentation is completely irrelevant here.

Your arguing it was done before it explode.

Then there's the obvious handsign that Madara's Armored Susanoo is making. The same hand sign it made when it stabilized itself against the Gokage.

Ok. Not seeing how this matters.

What in the world? Please read that again. SS is running. Literally no panel in this Manga shows it losing it's balance.

I checked the anime, I didnt notice it peeled off its backpack to capture Kurama.

Still my argument is base on the laws of motion then actual screening.

No, it wasn't. That explosion was the combination of both attacks and it covered the whole entire battlefield. PS tanks Bijuu Dama with ease. That simple.

Whatever or not, as I said to Bronze:

My counter is none of these "beings" are standing on two legs to be pushed by the blast force. Kurama is on four legs while VOTE unstablized PS can't lose balance with no feet. So the scenario's will act differently.

 

[KidGamer65]

T

Your arguing it was done before it explode.

That's exactly what happened in the Manga.

Ok. Not seeing how this matters.

You asked for proof that he stabilized it. Lmfao.

I checked the anime, I didnt notice it peeled off its backpack to capture Kurama.

Still my argument is base on the laws of motion then actual screening.



Whatever or not, as I said to Bronze:

And then we come to the point where you have zero evidence or zero reason to claim that the force of BD's explosion will knock PS off of it's feet.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

That's exactly what happened in the Manga.

Except doesnt show no sign of it happening before as we see it ready to denote. During=/=Before

You asked for proof that he stabilized it. Lmfao.

I asked for proof that he did before it explode. While all your claims is thinking Im basing proof from a rhetorical.

And then we come to the point where you have zero evidence or zero reason to claim that the force of BD's explosion will knock PS off of it's feet.

I didnt make my premise base on knocking off PS to the ground. I made my premise base on PS being pushed from the force.

 

[KidGamer65]

Except doesnt show no sign of it happening before as we see it ready to denote. During=/=Before

Lmao. It wasn't during the explosion. It was right before the explosion happened. Please read the Manga again. You see the ball glowing, and nothing happens. Then afterwards, PS is up. It obviously wasn't during the explosion otherwise Madara would've been wiped off the face of the planet. In the short time between it glowing and the explosion occurring, Madara and Hashirama set up their defenses.

I asked for proof that he did before it explode. While all your claims is thinking Im basing proof from a rhetorical.

Please read above.

I didnt make my premise base on knocking off PS to the ground. I made my premise base on PS being pushed from the force.

Ok? Not like you have evidence for either one regardless.

 

[Bronze]

Bee's attack came out as fast as Kurama's TBB, so Im going by the speed it took for un-stabilized PS to counter a tbb.

Unstabilized PS still tanked the TBB, so this doesn't matter anyway.

I think you or KG were arguing that there will be no back peddling from the blast force of TBB. You guys (I think?) use Kurama+unstablized as an example of not being pushed back.

How can the blast force push back PS? Naruto wasn't pushed back by Juubi's TBB, so how will Hachibi's TBB push back PS?

My counter is none of these "beings" are standing on two legs to be pushed by the blast force. Kurama is on four legs while VOTE unstablized PS can't lose balance with no feet. So the scenario's will act differently.

There will not be any push back from the blast force. Bee's TBB can't create the necessary force to push back a construct like PS.

I didn't fail at anything, your premise was a 360 slash. A 360 slash isnt hitting a midget compare to your self as comparing PS to BM Bee.

Being a midget isn't going to prevent Bee from being bisected, as number one: Sharingan lets the user see anything as small as a cell. [

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] Number two: Madara can manipulate the size of his PS to be as small as Hachibi if he needs to perfectly slash him.

My premise is changing to bottom angle, so not 360 degrees.

By the time Manda travels underground, swinging the sword downward would be pointless, since it would have made it close to PS already. And wouldnt that have Bee slide away from the slash, since he just needs to dodge the sword then the shockwave itself.

Uh, no. Already addressed this. Manda going underground isn't going to make him hide from Sharingan's vision, when Madara can see him underground, therefore he's a target and will be hit if Madara throws blades all over the ground. Bee dodging PS sword is the biggest joke ever.

 

[Imperious]

Madara wins mid-low dif. Honestly, Madara offers Kabuto allegiance for his high intellect. If not, he negs Kabuto without hesitation. Madara also shits on Bee like he did in one of the reason (non-filler) episodes...

 

[Thesaurus]

Look at the scan more properly,
the TBB is already formed and only then the PS sword is pierced through
had the PS sword been inserted midway, then we would have seen kurama still forming the TBB yet that wasnt the case since the blade was only inserted after the bomb was formed,

there was absolutely no change on the TBB itself after the PS sword went through since it wasnt charged by kurama anymore,
meaning that it wasnt just free compressed energy, so youre wrong on that one,

You don't comprende bro. Look at circular marks which denote TBB formation completion [

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][

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] As you can see, they have marks to indicate its completion. Furthermore, you can see that in its incomplete state it is not solid hard, but rather lacks a shape/liquid. This is shown here [

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], when Naruto's TBB isn't completed and thus stretches. You will also notice that while Madara was piercing the TBB with the sword, it was still forming [

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]. So no, my point stands quite strong. When it's pierced, the liquid almost spills out/flies to the side, denoting that it is not in fact solid and compressed, as it would be

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.

and im well aware that you read from right to left,

Lmao

And i have already explained why this wont be the case

Please stop with this bullshit. Naruto literally shunshin'd past them to redirect them. PS shockwave sends them to ****ing South Africa if you don't want to concede that PS cuts it in half

Never said that, but what you fail to understand is that the mass also plays a role here,

Nope. Shockwaes don't act like objects, so stop making them seem like they do.

if a ball moves at 50 m/s
then the affect that a bowling ball would have on you would be far far more than the affect that a ping pong ball would have,

Good thing the ping pong ball would be travelling 1000 times faster. And regardless, Naruto redirected them=PS shits. Objects=/=shockwave

not to mention that what do you mean without losing momentum?
if you mean how it cut more than one mountain then the answer is simple, since madara swung his blade in a 360 degree motion meaning that the slashes were aimed at all the mountains

I mean vs the Gokage where he took out 2 mountains and the entirety of his Mokuton forest while he was at it [

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].

You said pierce and detonate the bomb,
well to peirce the bomb the blade needs to be strong enough to do that,
the blade pierced through the bomb but it didnt detonate it, so if madara swings his blade or thrusts it, the result would be the same, the bomb wont detonate

Already explained this. And no, the thrust was not powerful enough to create shockwaves. His swing was, so there's a clear horrendous comparison there. The shockwave is far more powerful then swords mini thrust. It's like saying because Orochimaru survived Naruto's v2 TB laser he can survive BM Naruto's TBB. You can't compare a small version of a similar attack to a stronger version of a more powerful attack.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Lmao. It wasn't during the explosion. It was right before the explosion happened. Please read the Manga again. You see the ball glowing, and nothing happens. Then afterwards, PS is up. It obviously wasn't during the explosion otherwise Madara would've been wiped off the face of the planet. In the short time between it glowing and the explosion occurring, Madara and Hashirama set up their defenses.





Please read above.




Ok? Not like you have evidence for either one regardless.

Concede the point only because I forgot Juubi beam couldnt push Kurama Mode.

How can the blast force push back PS? Naruto wasn't pushed back by Juubi's TBB, so how will Hachibi's TBB push back PS?

Concede this point.

There will not be any push back from the blast force. Bee's TBB can't create the necessary force to push back a construct like PS.

Concede

Being a midget isn't going to prevent Bee from being bisected, as number one: Sharingan lets the user see anything as small as a cell. [

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] Number two: Madara can manipulate the size of his PS to be as small as Hachibi if he needs to perfectly slash him.

My premise is changing to bottom angle, so not 360 degrees.

I dont think you understood your premise. Your premise states a 360 slash will repel the genjutsu effect. Doing that will result anyone under the shockwave to be safe. Thats all I address with the motion you were arguing, before you changed it.

Uh, no. Already addressed this. Manda going underground isn't going to make him hide from Sharingan's vision, when Madara can see him underground, therefore he's a target and will be hit if Madara throws blades all over the ground. Bee dodging PS sword is the biggest joke ever.

I didnt mention anything about hiding away of Madara's vision. My premise is hiding underground to be safe from the shockwave. Madara could level the ground by striking it, sure, but Manda's traveling speed would already reached its destination.

Why it is a joke? This guy was able to dodge a blast from the Juubi. Im sure side stepping from a sword is plausible.

 

[Draegod]

It's a slash that can cut multiple Mountains. (Inb4 that nonsense "Mountain Tip" argument" as if it changes anything) Tanking BD means just about jack when he got wrecked by it. Not to mention PS Slash is basically a much more focused Bijuu Dama. Madara was about to run B through with a Susanoo blade. Bijuu were piercing into his skin. PS Slash easily kills him.



1.Iso Susanoo=PS on Kurama.

2. To get PS, Madara has to stabilize his Susanoo.

3. So he had to have stabilized Susanoo before he equipped it to Kurama. The full presentation is completely irrelevant here.

Then there's the obvious handsign that Madara's Armored Susanoo is making. The same hand sign it made when it stabilized itself against the Gokage.






What in the world? Please read that again. SS is running. Literally no panel in this Manga shows it losing it's balance.



No, it wasn't. That explosion was the combination of both attacks and it covered the whole entire battlefield. PS tanks Bijuu Dama with ease. That simple.

On my phone so work with me..

Ps swords last is nothing more then shock ways using basically Air Force to do damage. The weakest point if a mountain is the tip (fact). If madara destroyed the entire mountain, or cut the mountain straight through the middle, or at the very least made the mountain crumble then one could say it's force is not only deadly on impact but powerful enough to destroy anything it came in contact with. But madara doesn't have that capability nor anything even close!

Madaras greatest ps feat was cutting the tips of mountains that were planted and stationary. Using the laws of motion and physics and force alike he cannot duplicate that exacte feat on something smaller or that can also go with the force of the air current. Which in bees case he blocks then get blown back (fact u less he is pinned down and lock in place I.e. Stationary). Not only does the force of his swing get weaker (lack of a better term) as it travels; as long as bee/kurama are blocking they take less and less damage as they travel with the air current.

Then there's the fact tbb vaporize mountains (no disputing), entire mountains instantly!! Yet bee was not only still intact but not a single limb was lost. If you want to compare it's a fact tbb has not dc then ps by far when ps hasn't even been shown to destroy any mountain just breach the tip. Didn't bee survive the juubi beam as well? Not saying bee wouldn't be damaged or could defeat madara, but one slash killing be is the most ridiculous non supported statement I have read in a while! There is literally only rocks ( that bee is for a fact more denser and durable than) to base any madara ps feat to go on and that isn't on bees level. Unless your stating the tip of a mountain with basic rocks and not that much diameter to go off of is more durable then bee when it is a fact bee>>>mountain minerals/rocks!

 

[Thesaurus]

^This guy, :lol

 

[KidGamer65]

On my phone so work with me..

Ps swords last is nothing more then shock ways using basically Air Force to do damage. The weakest point if a mountain is the tip (fact). If madara destroyed the entire mountain, or cut the mountain straight through the middle, or at the very least made the mountain crumble then one could say it's force is not only deadly on impact but powerful enough to destroy anything it came in contact with. But madara doesn't have that capability nor anything even close!

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That's close to the middle. Close enough that whether or not he actually cut the middle wouldn't make any major difference. If he had really cut the weakest part of the Mountain, he would've cut right here:

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Madaras greatest ps feat was cutting the tips of mountains that were planted and stationary. Using the laws of motion and physics and force alike he cannot duplicate that exacte feat on something smaller or that can also go with the force of the air current. Which in bees case he blocks then get blown back (fact u less he is pinned down and lock in place I.e. Stationary). Not only does the force of his swing get weaker (lack of a better term) as it travels; as long as bee/kurama are blocking they take less and less damage as they travel with the air current.

The only way he doesn't get blown back when the blade hits his body is if he is strong enough to take it without cut apart, which he isn't. He was wrecked by his own BD. PS Slash cuts through multiple Mountains and the surrounding landscape with ease. Put all that energy along the blade of PS and have that blade cut B, and he dies a terrible, terrible death. If he tries to block with his tentacles, they get cut through as if they weren't even there given the fact that Shuriken propelled by Kamui and Chidori Spear are capable of severing them with little effort.

Then there's the fact tbb vaporize mountains (no disputing), entire mountains instantly!! Yet bee was not only still intact but not a single limb was lost. If you want to compare it's a fact tbb has not dc then ps by far when ps hasn't even been shown to destroy any mountain just breach the tip. Didn't bee survive the juubi beam as well? Not saying bee wouldn't be damaged or could defeat madara, but one slash killing be is the most ridiculous non supported statement I have read in a while! There is literally only rocks ( that bee is for a fact more denser and durable than) to base any madara ps feat to go on and that isn't on bees level. Unless your stating the tip of a mountain with basic rocks and not that much diameter to go off of is more durable then bee when it is a fact bee>>>mountain minerals/rocks!

1. Stop mentioning Bijuu Dama. PS Slash is basically a much more focused Bijuu Dama as it affects a smaller area than Bijuu Dama, which spreads it's energy out all over the place. Not a single limb was lost when BD exploded, but Chidori cut off his limbs with ease.

2. Regular Susanoo blades were about to run B through before Naruto saved him. PS Blade>>>>>>>Regular Susanoo blade. A Bijuu's horn pierced his body. PS Blade>>>>>Bijuu's horn.

3. B being more durable than Mountain doesn't matter when Madara has already cut through multiple Mountains and the surrounding landscape in one swing like they were butter. Stop saying "tip of a Mountain" when it isn't the tip. The place where he cut is only a bit above the middle of the Mountain.

And no, he didn't survive the Juubi Beam. Not only would that be impossible since he got wrecked by his own BD, he was warped away before the laser hit him, given the fact that he was unscathed while the superior Naruto wasn't unscathed.

 

[Conspirator.]

Madara clearly wins.