Blind Madara vs Hashirama

[shelke]

yea because Hashirama couldn't mold any new chakra, while Madara could, but despite that he was still overwhelmed by Hashirama. And the rods are connected to Madara's chakra, thats why he can absorb it.

He was able to paralyze Hashirama because Hashirama had hardly any chakra left. While Madara was restored back to fully revived form.

Madara can't control a full powered Hashirama via the rods. Thats what i'm trying to say.

He's an Edo, but regardless of that, the rods did their job. Why, this Hashirama was holding back somehow?

 

[Demonic.]

He's an Edo, but regardless of that, the rods did their job. Why, this Hashirama was holding back somehow?

He's saying Madara was at full power and Hashirama was weakened. Which is true.

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[ad0]

Blind Madara win med diff at max

The only proof is his Tai jutsu is going to be better than Hashirama

Peoples Misunderstanding:
Bling Madara got badly injured from all Bijju because Madara could not go rough on them as he needed to Capture than or they will disappear

Feat or Logic

 

[shelke]

He's saying Madara was at full power and Hashirama was weakened. Which is true.

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That is not what those scans mean. Madara simply said that this Senjutsu was not something he shouldn't be able to handle. Yes, Hashirama had used Senjutsu, but my point still brings us back to the original point: the rods did their job. Why can't they do so here again, when Madara no longer has a fake Rinnegan and he has shown to use the superior form of Petra Path as well, blind?

 

[Demonic.]

That is not what those scans mean. Madara simply said that this Senjutsu was not something he shouldn't be able to handle. Yes, Hashirama had used Senjutsu, but my point still brings us back to the original point: the rods did their job. Why can't they do so here again, when Madara no longer has a fake Rinnegan and he has shown to use the superior form of Petra Path as well, blind?

You're acting as if Hashirama is going to sit there and let Madara impale him Lol. Edo Madara did imaple him, but simultaneously Hashirama bound Madara with wood dragon. They essentially stalemated. Madara was then revived, and then negged a still bound Edo Hashirama.

In this match, they're both alive (let's not forget manga says Edo Hashirama was weaker than alive Hashirama) and Madara is handicapped with not being able to see. He can still sense, but it's not as good as actually seeing.

 

[KingHashirama]

He's an Edo, but regardless of that, the rods did their job. Why, this Hashirama was holding back somehow?

The rods only did their job, because Madara was revived.. lol.. Hashirama was beating Madara despite having rods inside him.

Furthermore, even Madara Uchiha acknowledged that Hashirama/Tobirama couldn't bring out their true power in edo tensei forms.. if Hashirama is fighting full power.. the rods are the least of the worries..

 

[shelke]

You're acting as if Hashirama is going to sit there and let Madara impale him Lol. Edo Madara did imaple him, but simultaneously Hashirama bound Madara with wood dragon. They essentially stalemated. Madara was then revived, and then negged a still bound Edo Hashirama.

In this match, they're both alive (let's not forget manga says Edo Hashirama was weaker than alive Hashirama) and Madara is handicapped with not being able to see. He can still sense, but it's not as good as actually seeing.

They were fighting and he stabbed him somehow. It happened off-panel. Hashirama was not sitting around then either. They were both fighting. Hashirama was not bound then. He was capable of moving before, as with the rods he jumped away from the Rasangan Naruto launched at Madara, and avoided the blast radius. His mobility and chakra recovery was drastically affected though.

The power tier difference wasn't that big between the two bodies, in fact, it was negligible. Manga implies the same thing for Hashirama. Madara could sense very nicely where Hashirama was and got the job done. Look, you people are completely putting this aside as if this rod business doesn't even matter. That is all what I am trying to say.

 

[shelke]

The rods only did their job, because Madara was revived.. lol.. Hashirama was beating Madara despite having rods inside him.

Furthermore, even Madara Uchiha acknowledged that Hashirama/Tobirama couldn't bring out their true power in edo tensei forms.. if Hashirama is fighting full power.. the rods are the least of the worries..

Which scan? If you are talking about this one:

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Then that is not what it means. Madara is talking about it in sense of their ideals and the fact that he sports a new eye. He uses the term 'futhermore' to connect both the statements. Tobirama already stated that they were 'almost' at full power. Unless you believe he was lying.

Furthermore, we saw Madara take out the black rod and try and stab Tobirama as well:

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. He was quite quick to restrain him in his alive body:

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. Just look at the difference between these rod numbers on Tobirama and Hashirama:

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and

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. Madara was able to use more with Tobirama in his alive form, despite the fact that Tobirama is faster than Hashirama.

 

[Obito Loves Rin]

Hashi wins.

 

[KingHashirama]

Which scan? If you are talking about this one:

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Then that is not what it means. Madara is talking about it in sense of their ideals and the fact that he sports a new eye. He uses the term 'futhermore' to connect both the statements. Tobirama already stated that they were 'almost' at full power. Unless you believe he was lying.

Furthermore, we saw Madara take out the black rod and try and stab Tobirama as well:

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. He was quite quick to restrain him in his alive body:

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. Just look at the difference between these rod numbers on Tobirama and Hashirama:

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and

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. Madara was able to use more with Tobirama in his alive form, despite the fact that Tobirama is faster than Hashirama.

Madara was also beyond his prime... but couldn't use all of his jutsus.

Almost at full power = not at full power. "almost" can range from 80% -99%..


And no Madara was not talking about "ideals", he was talking about power, and skills. Because had Hashirama and Tobirama revived with their full power.. Madara would have stood no chance against them. Hence the coincidence that when those 2 were needed at their full power the most.. they weren't at their full power.


Tobirama can be faster than Hashirama all he wants, hes still inferior to Hashirama, and Madara. Speed has nothing to do with being able to be hit by the rods. Hashirama has more resistance to binding than Tobirama does.

"Furthermore" : in addition; besides

 

[shelke]

Madara was also beyond his prime... but couldn't use all of his jutsus.

Almost at full power = not at full power. "almost" can range from 80% -99%..


And no Madara was not talking about "ideals", he was talking about power, and skills. Because had Hashirama and Tobirama revived with their full power.. Madara would have stood no chance against them. Hence the coincidence that when those 2 were needed at their full power the most.. they weren't at their full power.


Tobirama can be faster than Hashirama all he wants, hes still inferior to Hashirama, and Madara. Speed has nothing to do with being able to be hit by the rods. Hashirama has more resistance to binding than Tobirama does.

"Furthermore" : in addition; besides

It doesn't matter where he was, as this is the Madara the thread maker has asked us to use. Which is why he mentioned the gulf. He possessed the Rinnegan and thus was superior to them.

No, it cannot. Almost cannot be anything below 95 - 97 %, as the term is introduces an adverb that accounts or presents itself as synonymous to 'nearly'.

Both. You cannot simply take Madara's statement and forget Tobirama's for your own convenience. Madara was well beyond where he stood as an EMS user. Of course there stood a gulf between their powers now.

I am talking about stabbing. which all depends upon maneuverability and reflexes. Tobirama is faster, yet even he couldn't avoid so many stabs from Madara. Just look at his back. Those are 13 stabs, as opposed to 6 or 7 on Hashirama's back. That would make a ton of difference for Hashirama. If 6 or 7 could make him pant and almost immobile later - he couldn't even stand up - then 13 would stop him dead in his tracks.

I know what furthermore means, which is why I pointed out its use. That Rinnegan plays a large part in their gulf. He even had Hashirama's Senjutsu at that time. Come on ...

 

[Draphsin]

That is not what I was talking about. He took out the Rod here:

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and tried to stab him with it later:

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By the time he appears again, he is covered with black rods:

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. He must have stabbed him, resulting in that. If he paralyzes him after that. It's over for Hashirama.

None of this is happening though, hashi never used SS while fighting edo madara. PS was stalemating with mokujin/ryuu, once SS comes out madara has no chance of winning, even if he can use SS too his senjutsu reserves are significantly lower & thus he will be outlasted at the very least.

Wait, so he can use Susanoo without his eyes but he needs a rinnegan to use the meteor?

Wasn't Edo Madara's eyes a fake rinnegan?

So doesn't that mean he never had the rinnegan at all?

Susanoo is special, you need the mangekyou to unlock it but not use it.

Madara's rinnegan was fake but for some reason that only prevented him from using it's full power, he used preta & deva just fine.

 

[shelke]

None of this is happening though, hashi never used SS while fighting edo madara. PS was stalemating with mokujin/ryuu, once SS comes out madara has no chance of winning, even if he can use SS too his senjutsu reserves are significantly lower & thus he will be outlasted at the very least.

He isn't starting in SS, now is he? Just because he didn't use SS doesn't mean he didn't use the rest of his skills to the fullest, when they were being fueled by Senjutsu and not ordinary chakra, making them more powerful than they would normally be. Both Madara and Hashirama fought in a CQC battle as well. It shows that this battle can proceed in this fashion as well. This does give Madara the opportunity to use the black rods.

I have no idea why you people are not even considering this.

 

[Draphsin]

He isn't starting in SS, now is he?

I don't see why he can't.

Just because he didn't use SS doesn't mean he didn't use the rest of his skills to the fullest, when they were being fueled by Senjutsu and not ordinary chakra, making them more powerful than they would normally be.

Still not hashirama's full power [SS] which would've crushed edo madara's attempts at making any progress in their fight.

Both Madara and Hashirama fought in a CQC battle as well. It shows that this battle can proceed in this fashion as well. This does give Madara the opportunity to use the black rods.

Turned to cqc after their constructs were obliterated via the quad juubidama. [

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-

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] No explosion is going to do that during this fight so there's no reason why hashi would abandon his SS, especially when it took PS + kurama to bust it.

I have no idea why you people are not even considering this.

Because the fight will never go to cqc, it ends once SS comes out.

 

[Chokuto]

Hashirama wins

 

[AnonymousShinobi]

Hashi takes this

 

[KidGamer65]

Both their Shinsuusenju would stalemate. It all comes down to attrition, and Hashirama has the edge when it comes to chakra reserves, so he wins.

 

[VongolaX]

None of this is happening though, hashi never used SS while fighting edo madara. PS was stalemating with mokujin/ryuu, once SS comes out madara has no chance of winning, even if he can use SS too his senjutsu reserves are significantly lower & thus he will be outlasted at the very least.



Susanoo is special, you need the mangekyou to unlock it but not use it.

Madara's rinnegan was fake but for some reason that only prevented him from using it's full power, he used preta & deva just fine.

Madara unlocked the rinnegan too, it was stated that with fake Edo rinnegans you can't summon Gedo mazou.

But he used absorption, black rods, and meteor just fine.

He came back blind, and he used absorption and black rods just fine.

Is there any scan of what you can and can't do without the rinnegan?

This is all jumbled up sh*t here

 

[shelke]

I don't see why he can't.

Still not hashirama's full power [SS] which would've crushed edo madara's attempts at making any progress in their fight.

Turned to cqc after their constructs were obliterated via the quad juubidama. [

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-

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] No explosion is going to do that during this fight so there's no reason why hashi would abandon his SS, especially when it took PS + kurama to bust it.

Because the fight will never go to cqc, it ends once SS comes out.

This is a versus battle. You cannot simply assume that a fight cannot start with CQC first. That is a very far-fetched assumption. This is where rods would play a large part. Hashirama cannot enter in SM in a flash either. Madara can close the distance and stop him. This is another angle from which one can look at the fight. You assume they start off with flashy moves, I don't. It's a simple matter of how we both perceive the battle begins.

 

[Draphsin]

This is a versus battle. You cannot simply assume that a fight cannot start with CQC first.

No restrictions, fighting to kill. Since hashi knows how dangerous madara is he won't hesitate to use his most powerful techniques in order to bring him down. This fight is not starting in cqc.

That is a very far-fetched assumption. This is where rods would play a large part.

The rods won't play a part because hashi isn't going to allow cqc.

Hashirama cannot enter in SM in a flash either. Madara can close the distance and stop him.

He can enter it fast enough. [

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] Then clones ensure he isn't getting interrupted.

This is another angle from which one can look at the fight. You assume they start off with flashy moves, I don't. It's a simple matter of how we both perceive the battle begins.

The intent is to kill, if you don't think that hashi will try to put madara down quickly after knowing full well what he can do then that's not my fault.