[Question] Bleach worth watching?
- Thread starter Desiigner
- Start date
FourthSmokage
Active member
Yes watch it but look up the filler guide for it so you know which episodes to skip. And just keep in mind that, like with most good anime, it takes a bit for the series to wind up.
IDK why people prefer manga in action series'. The animation is what makes the action pop out in the first place. It adds on to what the manga already established. I've never seen a fight animated, and then re-read it in the manga and thought "wow those still colorless pictures sure were better than that bright colorful animation"
IDK why people prefer manga in action series'. The animation is what makes the action pop out in the first place. It adds on to what the manga already established. I've never seen a fight animated, and then re-read it in the manga and thought "wow those still colorless pictures sure were better than that bright colorful animation"
illidanson
Active member
Bleach > Naruto??? BY FAAAAR??? Lulz xD
Bleach is a pretty good series overall, cause of the epic battles and some awesome characters, but it's story is pretty bad.
On the other hand Naruto has a pretty good story, even more epic battles and some awesome characters as well.
Ranking the big three:
Naruto > One Piece >>>> Bleach.
Honestly it just can't compare to Naruto or One Piece.
DoubleKamui
Active member
Do not drop Bleach until you finished the Soul Society Arc (hands down one of the best arcs ever).
YokoKurama
Guest
Forbidden Tale
Active member
Bleach story pretty bad?? Naruto story is just decent and Naruto have more epic fight that Bleach, this is first time i heard something like this. Well, in the end we all have different opinions.
One Piece > Bleach > Naruto
In my opinion One Piece would be behind Bleach if Bleach didn't have Lost Agent arc and didn't got little down hill since Second invaison of war arc started and i will not even mention that War in Bleach was far better than both wars in One Piece and Naruto.
illidanson
Active member
Ohh... I completely forgot about this thread... Well better late than never:
So you're saying you think that the Bleach story is BETTER than the one in Naruto??? Lol! The story in Naruto is great and well throughout, very interesting and it has some good plot twist along the line.
The Bleach story on the other hand is full of plot holes and it honestly seems like Kubo is just making it up along the way and don't even make me mention his plot twist...
And Bleach having a better war??? HOW??? Renji and Rukia had some pretty cool fights, but just like the rest of the war arc they were too predictable, and the rest of the war hasn't been that interesting. Yamamoto's death was predictable, Squad 0 making everyone god-like just seems a bit ridiculous and Kenpachi's shikai was a straight up disappointing.
The only thing bad I can think about in the Naruto war, is how Sasori and Deidara got trolled hard and defeated by a bunch of fodders. There have been many great battles (Madara vs. Fodders and Kages, Naruto & Sasuke vs. Juubito, we got to see Madara vs. Hashirama and most of the fight with the Ten-Tails was awesome), Naruto has had some awesome moments, Sasuke joining up with Squad 7 was great even if it doesn't last, and so on.
But yea I guess everyone has their own opinion, and Bleach started out great, but in my opinion it has been going downhill since midway though the Arrancar Arc.
Forbidden Tale
Active member
1. Yes, i think. Story of Naruto goes downhill even since part two started, Naruto part 1 was far better. It is very interesting, but you can't say that Bleach isn't. Plot twists? Best plot twist in Naruto is Itachi being good, i can't think of any other (that was close to Itachi's) and that is in rang with Bleach plot twist about Gin i will not even talk about plot twist called "Aizen the main villain".
2. There is no manga without plot holes. And Hiruzen being strongest kage and hokage of all and in the end he didn't do nothing is far bigger plot hole that any other in Bleach. His plot twist? Just read second part of first point, if you want i can give you more.
3. I really want to know how is all in the war predictable. Yamamoto's death being predictable. Wow, from the start you had know that Yama need to die in that fight, that's something typical for the shonen, just like Hiruzen's death in fight against Orochimaru.. It wasn't even debetable that Yama need to die in that fight.
You say to me that Quincies being enemy is not interesting. As Nodt vs Byakuya wasn't interesting? Yama vs Bach wasn't interesting? Strongest Zanpakuto that we spent a years to see wasn't interesting? Quilge vs Ichigo wasn't interesting?
I don't really get this about royal guard. Kenpachi's shikai was disappointing that's what i referred to when i said Bleach war goes downhill.
4. Just Sasori's and Deidara's defeats? Hanzo, guy who defeated 3 sannins in fight, got defeated by Mifune. Kinkaku and Ginkaku, guys who defeated Tobirama (even thought Tobirama had back up) being defeated by fodders. Naruto making clones and finishing all by himself, stupid.. Madara vs Kage was indeed awesome and Madara's moments after revival by Obito was also awesome and nearly all Madara's movements were awesome prior becoming Jinchuuriki.
Naruto and Sasuke vs Juubito was also predictable, but same as Yama vs Bach it was something expected and anyone shouldn't say that it's bad. Also Madara's and Obito's moments are climax of the war, unlike Bleach. Bleach has at least 5 year before it ends, so comparing these two "parts of the war" is not really accurate.
5. I can agree that Bleach was better written at SS arc and that overall quality got downhill since than, but i strongly disagree with overall point "Naruto being better than Blaech".
2. There is no manga without plot holes. And Hiruzen being strongest kage and hokage of all and in the end he didn't do nothing is far bigger plot hole that any other in Bleach. His plot twist? Just read second part of first point, if you want i can give you more.
3. I really want to know how is all in the war predictable. Yamamoto's death being predictable. Wow, from the start you had know that Yama need to die in that fight, that's something typical for the shonen, just like Hiruzen's death in fight against Orochimaru.. It wasn't even debetable that Yama need to die in that fight.
You say to me that Quincies being enemy is not interesting. As Nodt vs Byakuya wasn't interesting? Yama vs Bach wasn't interesting? Strongest Zanpakuto that we spent a years to see wasn't interesting? Quilge vs Ichigo wasn't interesting?
I don't really get this about royal guard. Kenpachi's shikai was disappointing that's what i referred to when i said Bleach war goes downhill.
4. Just Sasori's and Deidara's defeats? Hanzo, guy who defeated 3 sannins in fight, got defeated by Mifune. Kinkaku and Ginkaku, guys who defeated Tobirama (even thought Tobirama had back up) being defeated by fodders. Naruto making clones and finishing all by himself, stupid.. Madara vs Kage was indeed awesome and Madara's moments after revival by Obito was also awesome and nearly all Madara's movements were awesome prior becoming Jinchuuriki.
Naruto and Sasuke vs Juubito was also predictable, but same as Yama vs Bach it was something expected and anyone shouldn't say that it's bad. Also Madara's and Obito's moments are climax of the war, unlike Bleach. Bleach has at least 5 year before it ends, so comparing these two "parts of the war" is not really accurate.
5. I can agree that Bleach was better written at SS arc and that overall quality got downhill since than, but i strongly disagree with overall point "Naruto being better than Blaech".
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dragonflamebombs
Banned
illidanson
Active member
Lol!!
1. I wouldn't say the story has been going downhill since part 1, actually I think it got more interesting in Shipudden, I'll admit that part 1 was better in some aspects though.
About the plot twists:
The plot twists in Bleach have all been terrible, the only exception is when Aizen went evil in the first arc, that was decent.
Gin being good was one of the many: You fail Kubo! Moments. Him being a good guy just doesn't add up since he had way better chances at killing Aizen earlier, before he got so damn OP and we weren't even given the full story behind him acting as a bad guy, but just a short explanation. Kubo generally makes too many plot twist and as I said it seems like he just makes them up as he's writing cause many of them just doesn't make sense.
On the other hand Kishimoto takes his time and his plot twist make sense. Itachi becoming a good guy is a great example of a great plot twist: We get the whole story behind the Uchiha Massacre + Some general Uchiha Backstory from Obito and suddenly Itachi being a good guy makes total sense. And if you can't think of any other plot twist here is a few other good ones:
Itachi's fake intention of taking Sasukes eyes (It might not have been true, but it was still a big surprise and made their fight even more interesting)
Pains identity (Him being Jirayas old student was brilliant writing, especially with the Naruto fight later: New student vs. Old Student)
Obito becoming Ten-Tails Jinchuriki (I don't know if you'd call it a plot twist, but it was a big surprise and a pretty awesome one as well)
All the stuff we've learned about Rikodou and his mother and sons (Was a pretty nice bag ground story the series and now there's the Madara/Kaguya thing)
And that's just a few of them.
2. Yea every manga has plot holes, and yup the Hiruzen being the strongest hokage is a pretty big one. But Bleach is full of that shit. I've already mentioned the stuff about Gin being a good guy, but what about Kisuke and the Vizard?? All of them knew about Aizen being evil for 100 freaking years, yet they didn't manage to warn anyone in Soul Society or come up with proof?? Sure they we're banished and couldn't enter, but Kisuke is supposed to be a scientific genius, it shouldn't be hard for him to fix that. Even if they couldn't there we're constantly other Soul Reapers in the area. And what about Yoruichi?? She was able to enter and leave the Soul Society without problems and Kisuke must have been able to explain it to her.
AND DESPITE KNOWING THAT ABOUT AIZEN HE DIDN'T EVEN FREAKING WARN ICHIGO OR RUKIA??? RIDICOLOUS!!! A true example of Kubo making illogical writing so he can make some plot twists.
And don't even get me started on how we have never even got a full explanation on SOULS (Like Soul Reapers) even though most of the characters in the series are souls. So they're spirits of dead humans but apparently they can be born as souls as well?? And do they have memories of their lives, cause apparently some of them do, yet the Soul Reapers never talk about ever having been a human. And how can they die when they are already souls?? (And what happens to them then??) And since there's some balance between souls in the real world and the Soul Society does that mean they are somehow reborn as humans later on?? Some of the souls have been "Alive" as souls for thousands of years.
And Ichigo is half soul, half Quincy with a little hollow... So how is he so human like?? Are his sisters like that too? How come he didn't discover his power earlier???
YOU CAN GO ON FOREVER when it comes to bleach. And I almost did. Sry that got pretty long
3. Well... You admit that Yamamoto dying was predictable.
"As Nodt vs. Byakuya wasn't interesting??" Lol! That's exactly my point, cause yea that was pretty lame. First time around there wasn't much fighting but just some being scared and Byakuya getting pulverized (But he apparently survived. What a miracle! A predictable miracle though...), second time it was just a predictable stomp.
Bach vs. Juha was decent, and Yamamoto's Bankai was pretty cool, but again 1 cool bankai doesn't make the whole war great.
Again Qulige vs. Ichigo WASN'T interesting. I never really liked Ichigo, and as a main character he's far inferior to Luffy and Naruto. The fight with Quilge was just a way to show off some of the Quincies powers.
And yea the war is going downhill, but honestly I think the manga has been going downhill for years now as I mentioned earlier. Not that it's bad, but it's not living up to it's potential, and can't really compare to One Piece or Naruto if you ask me.
4. Hanzo got dull. That was pretty much the point of their fight. But I liked it though I was pretty epic to see him get schooled by Mifune and eventually break the Edos control to kill himself. All we know is that Kinkaku and Ginkaku left Tombirama near dead, we dodn't know the circumstances (It was most likely a surprise attack), i'll admit the Sage Tools could have been cooler though. Why is Naruto finishing the fights stupid?? Most of them was done anyways and he's the main character so ofc he needs some time to shine
Yea Madara has had some really great moments we can agree on that it seems
Yea Naruto and Sasuke vs. Obito was predictable, that's true, but I think the fight was a lot better, but yea we all have different opinions I guess...
"Bleach has at least 5 years before it ends" ohh good I hope you're wrong. I know it still has a ways to go, but 5 years would just be dragging it out more than necessary.
5. Well... I still don't really see why anybody would find Bleach better than Naruto... But it's your opinion, I guess.
Forbidden Tale
Active member
1. I can just agree to disagree with that.
-This is first time i see that someone say that Aizen plot twist was decent.
I will ask you where did you find that Gin having better chances? I have some assumption, but i will wait for your explanation, before replying on that part.
-As i said "Itachi being good guy" is indeed good, and that part along with his fight with Sasuke along with Jiraiya vs Pain and Pain vs Naruto was the only time when Naruto was above Bleach in my opinion.
- Pain's identity is just revelation. We didn't know who is Nagato in the first place, so if for example Minato/Fourth Hokage was Pain, that would be plot twist.
- Obito was indeed good, but that part was horrible for the future of manga, after Madara he repeat whole concept of Juubi Jinchuuriki, which isn't good.
- Kaguya's situation is very bad. She is official introduced like 10 chapter ago and know she is final villain and that all happen around 50 chapter before end of manga.
As i say Itachi's case is the only one who was quite good and interesting and that's when both of as agree.
2. I'll be waiting for Gin's explanation.
- There were no proof, because Aizen planned that perfectly, so they are nothing they can do. Even thought Urahara is genius and smartest character in series, he was against second smartest guy in series (Aizen) and he was in huge disadvantage from the start, since Aizen had proof that he wasn't there at that time, even Kyoraku could confirm Aizen's statement and Kyoraku was probably most trusted captain. So yeah even thought Urahara was "scientific genius" i don't came up with single explanation that he could prove his innocence. I would like to hear your's if you have some.
- I don't see how would Vizards prove their innocence, they can't go against Aizen, since Aizen has proof and they didn't do anything bad (as long as i remember), there were just "charged" because they had hollow powers.
- There is not proof that Rukia would believe him, since she already know situation, or after hearing it from Urahara, she would find more information in SS and found out that Aizen have proof and that wouldn't lead to anything.
-Urahara sent Ichigo in SS to save Rukia, but Urahara's intention was to save Hogyoku. Ichigo being aware of Aizen, wouldn't help him at all.
- We got very good explanation of souls, you probably missed good part of that.
---Yes, they can be born as souls, that's only thing that is for now unexplained, but that's not plot hole. My theory is that Soul King is the one who can create Souls, if he can grant Royal Guard members with ouken (100.000 souls) than i don't see a reason to believe that he can't do that.
---As long as i remember only confirmed human that was human in previous life is Rukia and Rukia can't remember her previous life, since she died as baby.
---They are reborn in the human world it was explained. -.- but their memories are erased. Hollow when die also go to soul society and they are reborn as souls, without memories. Of course some of them go to hell because they were bad as human. Much of that was explained, it seems that you didn't pay much attention and databooks are also very good source of information.
---They are alive for thousands of years, because they are "souls" in the first place.
-How is Ichigo human alike? Quincies were originaly just humans and they still are humans with high powers. Isshin was soul, he become human, when he entered that special made gigai. So Ichigo being human is nothing strange. He discovered his powers earlier, he could see and talk to goust since he was at least aroud 6 years old.
3. Yes, i did. But i also made my point on Naruto being predictable as well, this is shonen in the first place, or you belive that final villain in Naruto (now it seems that it's not Madara) will win and beat good guys??
-I can just disagree with that. Noone expect Aizen, didn't give prototgonist such beat. His fear is one of most very creative ability. Prediction? You know that Byakuya was supposed to die, but he was "revived" because of fans. Kubo even received suicide letters. Second time? I don't think so.. Never read any prediction about As Nodt being stomped nor here nor on Bleach Asylum (except one member) and he predicted Rukia's win because of parallels with fight against Aaeroniero and character development.
-I agree with the point that one moment don't make war, but as i said it wasn't only moment. As you said you already acknowledge Rukia's and Renji's moments as cool.
-It's just your point of view, and it's not objective since you don't like him. On the other hand i don't like Naruto much, but i said that his fight with Nagato was very good and he have some other moments. Ichigo is not same type as Naruto and that's why i found him being interesting. I don't read many mangas, but i didn't saw similar main character, on the other hand Naruto is just copy of Goku, who is also inspiration to Luffy and others. Way to show some off Quincies abilities aren't interesting? I suppose you don't want to see Kakashi's 1000 jutsus... Also showing Quincy abilities was great way to introduce them and it's great chance for other characters development.
4. Even if we say that there was surprise attack, it still impressive, considering that there were Second Raikage as well (he wasn't allie with Kin/Gin) and there were also other bodyguards, since sammit will not happen without one of them. Also Tobirama is one of most skilled fighters in the manga and very tricky, so i can't buy argument, they surprised him, when it comes to him there is not much things that can surprise him.
-I hate that thing about Naruto making 100 clones and finishing others himself. First because that opponents were mostly Kage level shinobies and second because they could be used for more character development for other characters like (Konoha rookies, they are poor written even since part 2 started). This doesn't mean that i'm will criticize Blecach if Ichigo do same, but i really hope he will not do much, it seems he will not, since he already have trouble with Fermritters.
- Well, i think i highly think i'm not. Back in 2010/2011, Kubo in interview said that he have material for at least 10 years. There are plenty of other things that need to happen.
--Ichigo need another training since i don't see him being near Bach.
--Uryu need to come back to Shinigami's side.
--Revelation of unseen Bankai
--Hisagi, Matsumoto, Yumichika, these three should have some impact on future
--Soul King and Royal Guard
--Aizen's revival
--Chad, Orihime, Grimm and Kukaku's group fight.
5. I'm not the only one who thinks that Bleach is above Naruto, you can find many other memebers on this forum that think like me and on other forums as well..
We for sure agree that everyone have their own opinion.
Whooah, i think this is longest reply i ever made.
-This is first time i see that someone say that Aizen plot twist was decent.
I will ask you where did you find that Gin having better chances? I have some assumption, but i will wait for your explanation, before replying on that part.
-As i said "Itachi being good guy" is indeed good, and that part along with his fight with Sasuke along with Jiraiya vs Pain and Pain vs Naruto was the only time when Naruto was above Bleach in my opinion.
- Pain's identity is just revelation. We didn't know who is Nagato in the first place, so if for example Minato/Fourth Hokage was Pain, that would be plot twist.
- Obito was indeed good, but that part was horrible for the future of manga, after Madara he repeat whole concept of Juubi Jinchuuriki, which isn't good.
- Kaguya's situation is very bad. She is official introduced like 10 chapter ago and know she is final villain and that all happen around 50 chapter before end of manga.
As i say Itachi's case is the only one who was quite good and interesting and that's when both of as agree.
2. I'll be waiting for Gin's explanation.
- There were no proof, because Aizen planned that perfectly, so they are nothing they can do. Even thought Urahara is genius and smartest character in series, he was against second smartest guy in series (Aizen) and he was in huge disadvantage from the start, since Aizen had proof that he wasn't there at that time, even Kyoraku could confirm Aizen's statement and Kyoraku was probably most trusted captain. So yeah even thought Urahara was "scientific genius" i don't came up with single explanation that he could prove his innocence. I would like to hear your's if you have some.
- I don't see how would Vizards prove their innocence, they can't go against Aizen, since Aizen has proof and they didn't do anything bad (as long as i remember), there were just "charged" because they had hollow powers.
- There is not proof that Rukia would believe him, since she already know situation, or after hearing it from Urahara, she would find more information in SS and found out that Aizen have proof and that wouldn't lead to anything.
-Urahara sent Ichigo in SS to save Rukia, but Urahara's intention was to save Hogyoku. Ichigo being aware of Aizen, wouldn't help him at all.
- We got very good explanation of souls, you probably missed good part of that.
---Yes, they can be born as souls, that's only thing that is for now unexplained, but that's not plot hole. My theory is that Soul King is the one who can create Souls, if he can grant Royal Guard members with ouken (100.000 souls) than i don't see a reason to believe that he can't do that.
---As long as i remember only confirmed human that was human in previous life is Rukia and Rukia can't remember her previous life, since she died as baby.
---They are reborn in the human world it was explained. -.- but their memories are erased. Hollow when die also go to soul society and they are reborn as souls, without memories. Of course some of them go to hell because they were bad as human. Much of that was explained, it seems that you didn't pay much attention and databooks are also very good source of information.
---They are alive for thousands of years, because they are "souls" in the first place.
-How is Ichigo human alike? Quincies were originaly just humans and they still are humans with high powers. Isshin was soul, he become human, when he entered that special made gigai. So Ichigo being human is nothing strange. He discovered his powers earlier, he could see and talk to goust since he was at least aroud 6 years old.
3. Yes, i did. But i also made my point on Naruto being predictable as well, this is shonen in the first place, or you belive that final villain in Naruto (now it seems that it's not Madara) will win and beat good guys??
-I can just disagree with that. Noone expect Aizen, didn't give prototgonist such beat. His fear is one of most very creative ability. Prediction? You know that Byakuya was supposed to die, but he was "revived" because of fans. Kubo even received suicide letters. Second time? I don't think so.. Never read any prediction about As Nodt being stomped nor here nor on Bleach Asylum (except one member) and he predicted Rukia's win because of parallels with fight against Aaeroniero and character development.
-I agree with the point that one moment don't make war, but as i said it wasn't only moment. As you said you already acknowledge Rukia's and Renji's moments as cool.
-It's just your point of view, and it's not objective since you don't like him. On the other hand i don't like Naruto much, but i said that his fight with Nagato was very good and he have some other moments. Ichigo is not same type as Naruto and that's why i found him being interesting. I don't read many mangas, but i didn't saw similar main character, on the other hand Naruto is just copy of Goku, who is also inspiration to Luffy and others. Way to show some off Quincies abilities aren't interesting? I suppose you don't want to see Kakashi's 1000 jutsus... Also showing Quincy abilities was great way to introduce them and it's great chance for other characters development.
4. Even if we say that there was surprise attack, it still impressive, considering that there were Second Raikage as well (he wasn't allie with Kin/Gin) and there were also other bodyguards, since sammit will not happen without one of them. Also Tobirama is one of most skilled fighters in the manga and very tricky, so i can't buy argument, they surprised him, when it comes to him there is not much things that can surprise him.
-I hate that thing about Naruto making 100 clones and finishing others himself. First because that opponents were mostly Kage level shinobies and second because they could be used for more character development for other characters like (Konoha rookies, they are poor written even since part 2 started). This doesn't mean that i'm will criticize Blecach if Ichigo do same, but i really hope he will not do much, it seems he will not, since he already have trouble with Fermritters.
- Well, i think i highly think i'm not. Back in 2010/2011, Kubo in interview said that he have material for at least 10 years. There are plenty of other things that need to happen.
--Ichigo need another training since i don't see him being near Bach.
--Uryu need to come back to Shinigami's side.
--Revelation of unseen Bankai
--Hisagi, Matsumoto, Yumichika, these three should have some impact on future
--Soul King and Royal Guard
--Aizen's revival
--Chad, Orihime, Grimm and Kukaku's group fight.
5. I'm not the only one who thinks that Bleach is above Naruto, you can find many other memebers on this forum that think like me and on other forums as well..
We for sure agree that everyone have their own opinion.
Whooah, i think this is longest reply i ever made.
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illidanson
Active member
Damn this will be faaaar to long... I wasn't planning to discuss every little detail1. I can just agree to disagree with that.
-This is first time i see that someone say that Aizen plot twist was decent.
I will ask you where did you find that Gin having better chances? I have some assumption, but i will wait for your explanation, before replying on that part.
-As i said "Itachi being good guy" is indeed good, and that part along with his fight with Sasuke along with Jiraiya vs Pain and Pain vs Naruto was the only time when Naruto was above Bleach in my opinion.
- Pain's identity is just revelation. We didn't know who is Nagato in the first place, so if for example Minato/Fourth Hokage was Pain, that would be plot twist.
- Obito was indeed good, but that part was horrible for the future of manga, after Madara he repeat whole concept of Juubi Jinchuuriki, which isn't good.
- Kaguya's situation is very bad. She is official introduced like 10 chapter ago and know she is final villain and that all happen around 50 chapter before end of manga.
As i say Itachi's case is the only one who was quite good and interesting and that's when both of as agree.
2. I'll be waiting for Gin's explanation.
- There were no proof, because Aizen planned that perfectly, so they are nothing they can do. Even thought Urahara is genius and smartest character in series, he was against second smartest guy in series (Aizen) and he was in huge disadvantage from the start, since Aizen had proof that he wasn't there at that time, even Kyoraku could confirm Aizen's statement and Kyoraku was probably most trusted captain. So yeah even thought Urahara was "scientific genius" i don't came up with single explanation that he could prove his innocence. I would like to hear your's if you have some.
- I don't see how would Vizards prove their innocence, they can't go against Aizen, since Aizen has proof and they didn't do anything bad (as long as i remember), there were just "charged" because they had hollow powers.
- There is not proof that Rukia would believe him, since she already know situation, or after hearing it from Urahara, she would find more information in SS and found out that Aizen have proof and that wouldn't lead to anything.
-Urahara sent Ichigo in SS to save Rukia, but Urahara's intention was to save Hogyoku. Ichigo being aware of Aizen, wouldn't help him at all.
- We got very good explanation of souls, you probably missed good part of that.
---Yes, they can be born as souls, that's only thing that is for now unexplained, but that's not plot hole. My theory is that Soul King is the one who can create Souls, if he can grant Royal Guard members with ouken (100.000 souls) than i don't see a reason to believe that he can't do that.
---As long as i remember only confirmed human that was human in previous life is Rukia and Rukia can't remember her previous life, since she died as baby.
---They are reborn in the human world it was explained. -.- but their memories are erased. Hollow when die also go to soul society and they are reborn as souls, without memories. Of course some of them go to hell because they were bad as human. Much of that was explained, it seems that you didn't pay much attention and databooks are also very good source of information.
---They are alive for thousands of years, because they are "souls" in the first place.
-How is Ichigo human alike? Quincies were originaly just humans and they still are humans with high powers. Isshin was soul, he become human, when he entered that special made gigai. So Ichigo being human is nothing strange. He discovered his powers earlier, he could see and talk to goust since he was at least aroud 6 years old.
3. Yes, i did. But i also made my point on Naruto being predictable as well, this is shonen in the first place, or you belive that final villain in Naruto (now it seems that it's not Madara) will win and beat good guys??
-I can just disagree with that. Noone expect Aizen, didn't give prototgonist such beat. His fear is one of most very creative ability. Prediction? You know that Byakuya was supposed to die, but he was "revived" because of fans. Kubo even received suicide letters. Second time? I don't think so.. Never read any prediction about As Nodt being stomped nor here nor on Bleach Asylum (except one member) and he predicted Rukia's win because of parallels with fight against Aaeroniero and character development.
-I agree with the point that one moment don't make war, but as i said it wasn't only moment. As you said you already acknowledge Rukia's and Renji's moments as cool.
-It's just your point of view, and it's not objective since you don't like him. On the other hand i don't like Naruto much, but i said that his fight with Nagato was very good and he have some other moments. Ichigo is not same type as Naruto and that's why i found him being interesting. I don't read many mangas, but i didn't saw similar main character, on the other hand Naruto is just copy of Goku, who is also inspiration to Luffy and others. Way to show some off Quincies abilities aren't interesting? I suppose you don't want to see Kakashi's 1000 jutsus... Also showing Quincy abilities was great way to introduce them and it's great chance for other characters development.
4. Even if we say that there was surprise attack, it still impressive, considering that there were Second Raikage as well (he wasn't allie with Kin/Gin) and there were also other bodyguards, since sammit will not happen without one of them. Also Tobirama is one of most skilled fighters in the manga and very tricky, so i can't buy argument, they surprised him, when it comes to him there is not much things that can surprise him.
-I hate that thing about Naruto making 100 clones and finishing others himself. First because that opponents were mostly Kage level shinobies and second because they could be used for more character development for other characters like (Konoha rookies, they are poor written even since part 2 started). This doesn't mean that i'm will criticize Blecach if Ichigo do same, but i really hope he will not do much, it seems he will not, since he already have trouble with Fermritters.
- Well, i think i highly think i'm not. Back in 2010/2011, Kubo in interview said that he have material for at least 10 years. There are plenty of other things that need to happen.
--Ichigo need another training since i don't see him being near Bach.
--Uryu need to come back to Shinigami's side.
--Revelation of unseen Bankai
--Hisagi, Matsumoto, Yumichika, these three should have some impact on future
--Soul King and Royal Guard
--Aizen's revival
--Chad, Orihime, Grimm and Kukaku's group fight.
5. I'm not the only one who thinks that Bleach is above Naruto, you can find many other memebers on this forum that think like me and on other forums as well..
We for sure agree that everyone have their own opinion.
Whooah, i think this is longest reply i ever made.
1. Well I personally though that the Aizen plot was decent.
About Gin he must have had a better chance before. We all know he can't have learned Aizens weakness in the middle of all the fighting, so he must have known it before the whole battle in the fake karakura town started. Pretty much any point before that or in that fight would have been better, since Aizen hadn't fused nearly as much with the Hogyaku so chances are a hit like that would have killed him earlier.
He could have done it before the fight, and if we assume that Gin was expecting to kill Aizen off if he had done it before the battle, with no Aizen, the other Soul Reapers wouldn't have been put in danger (And since he's a good guy I assume he wouldn't wont that to happened) Not that it matters since Good Guys don't die in Bleach
(Another thing I'm not a big fan of, Gin and Izuru are the only important good guys in bleach that have died, in Naruto the list is much longer: Jiraya, Asuma, Neji, Nagato, Itachi and Hiruzen just to name a few)I don't really know about Nagato being Pain just being a revelation... It was a bit of a plot twist, since he used to be a good guy and Jirayas student, but I still see your point.
And yea Madara doing the same thing as Obito was slightly disappointing, but it didn't last long since he then got a 3rd eye and now there's the whole Black Zetsu/Kaguya thing which is an awesome plot twist if you ask me
And I disagree about Kaguya, besides she was revealed about 30 chapters ago, but then we only knew that she ate the fruit not that she was evil or anything. But whatever: I like it, you don't.
I could mention some more plot twists, but that would only make the discussion even longer...
2.
No obviously he couldn't scientifically prove it, but what I'm saying is he should be able to enter Soul Society despite the fact that he was banished (If he's the smartest character then he should be able to outsmart whoever made that barrier so he can't enter it). He must have some people that trust him in there that he can at least warn and in 100 years someone must be able to prove something or at least convince them to keep an eye on Aizen. Yoruichi is a good example, but apparently you didn't even mention that part. And honestly I think Urahara could convince Rukia, she isn't stupid and if he explains the full situation I'm pretty sure she'd believe him.
And yes I'm not saying we haven't gotten an explanation on souls, I'm just saying it wasn't complete. You're also misunderstanding me a lot here:
I know that they can be born as souls, that's not what I was asking about. About your theory with the Soul King: That's just a theory from your side, this long into the series, I definitely think Kubo should have given us a full explanation.
About souls having memories of their lives, remember this:
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The little kid who was looking for his mom??? Well that definitely means that some of them have memories of their lives, but since none of the Soul Reapers ever mentions having been alive once that that means all of them either died as babies or was born as souls??? Quite the coincidence don't you think?? If it was some specific rule about Soul Reapers not having memories of their lives, Kubo should have mentioned it...
And yea ofc since they are souls they could theoretically live forever, but if they "Respawn" as humans at some point, living 1000 years without respawning seems like a whole lot. So do Soul Reapers not respawn as humans?? Did Kubo ever tell that??
Also fair enough if some of this is explained in the databooks, but honestly I think it's too important to just leave out in the series it self, and say "go read the databook if you wanna know it".
And yea, but Ichigo not discovering his QUINCY powers! There's a big difference between: "I can see ghosts" and "I can shoot fancy magical arrows". And he's still 50 % soul and 50 % quincy (Human), so realistically he should be something in between (Whatever that is). ALSO ISN'T IT ABOUT DAMN TIME THAT WE GET TO KNOW IF HIS SISTERS HAVE SIMILAIR POWERS!!! I think it's pretty relevant, whether they're just adopted ordinary humans or some kind of weird "mutant" like Ichigo
3.
Yea ofc the good guys win in the end, but at least a decent amount of them die in Naruto, which is rarely predictable. Can you count how many times the good guys in bleach have been near death, yet somehow magically survived?? Cause I sure as hell can't.
- Well if you wanna disagree then go ahead. Byakuya isn't the protagonist, he's just a major character and how about how Byakuya stomped Ichigo at the very beginning of the series? And Ulquiorra beat up Ichigo pretty badly as well. The Main characters getting beat up doesn't always make things interesting. In these 2 other cases it was awesome, Byakuya vs. As Nodt, however?? Nahh, I didn't like it in particular.
And did the fans seriously revive Byakuya??? SUICIDE LETTERS??? WTF??? Well I didn't know that, but it wouldn't surprise me if Kubo was gonna revive him anyway. And did you seriously not read any predictions about Byakuya showing up and stomping his ass?? Cause I read 2 and it was my own theory as well, though I was hoping it wasn't the case, cause I though it was TOO predictable. You really didn't see it coming??
Yup Rukia and Renji's moments. That's 2. Out of the what 10-15 fights that have been in this war?? Yamamoto's fight was pretty cool as well so if we count that it's 3, but that's still nothing impressive. I though the war in Naruto had way more awesome moments.
And yea that's just a point of view and it's not objective, but how much of this discussion is objective anyways?? It's all about opinion really. So you say Naruto is boring because he's just a copy of Goku?? First of all they have some big differences in their character, but ofc also some similarities, but if I have to name all that this'll get even longer so for now I'll leave that out. But Ichigo is honestly just a stereotypical hero. He's too boring because he's too perfect and doesn't really have any flaws, he beats up the bad guys to protect others & he gets beat up badly then suddenly gets stronger, bla bla bla.
Sure many other heroes are like that as well, but they all have something that makes them stand out from the rest. Luffy is stupid to the extreme and normally never serious, but suddenly gets serious when his friends needs help. Naruto has his "dark" past where he was all alone and didn't have a single friend, which was what inspired his dream to become hokage so people would start respecting him, and that's all because of the Nine-Tails, and because of that he also loses control when he gets angry and can end up hurting his friends. That all makes them much more interesting characters if you ask me
4.
A surprise attack can still make a difference if pulled off correctly and we don't know how strong the raikage or the bodyguards were.
Well most of the battles we're pretty much done as I said, and we still hadn't seen the full extent of Naruto's full power. About the rookies/K11 I can agree that some of them have been a bit forgotten in part 2 (I would really have loved to see some more from Neji and Lee those are some of my favorites). But hey look at the development of Chad and Orehime in bleach, not too impressive either.
Ohh god Kubo said that?? Goddamn him... Maybe he should have worked some more on his material instead of making so much of it... I especially hope you're wrong about Ichigo having to get training once more. Well guess I can't stop it, and it could be good if his writing begins improving, but I highly doubt it...
5.
Well I'm most certainly not the only one who thinks that Naruto > Bleach on here believe me.
And if you look at what the masses think:
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Just saying
But yea everyone has their own opinion, that's true ofc
Btw. If I'm gonna make 1 more my next reply is definitely going to be shorter, this takes too much time!
Jazzy Stardust
Banned
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I skipped a lot actually. The best arcs were the hueco mundo and the town one with aizen. Definitely worth watching those.
Forbidden Tale
Active member
@illidanson
1. First time i heard something like this, but ok, not a problem at all.
- It gotta be before fight in Karakura town, since he said that it took him decades to realize it. He emphasized that in order to stop KS you must touch the blade before Aizen active his shikai. Aizen's shikai was activate whole time during FKT, so it wouldn't help him much at all if he jumped in the fight at gotei's side. There would be really hard to attack Aizen in Hueco Mundo, even if he was able to touch blade, Aizen would still destroy him with his other abilities (example - Kido). Same can be said for SS arc and before that. Aizen's shikai was very active, he fooled many captains and vice captains about nature of his zanpakuto and it seems also that he used his zanpakuto when he went to Human World to watch Isshin's fight there are probably more situations.
I gave my reason why i'm sure that this is not some plot hole and that Gin didn't really have chances to kill Aizen before his fusion with Hogyoku.
- Hogyaku Aizen was for sure stronger than Shinigami Aizen and if that was fair battle, without a doubt Gin's chances would be far better agains Shinigami Aizen, but there is primary problem: Aizen totally left his guard down when he subjected Hogyoku, he himself admitted that.
There were no better chances for Gin to take Aizen than in front of Ichigo's friends.
--Enemies are there, they need to be killed, no Aizen don't, i will do it, he (Gin) pull out his sword, stand in front of Aizen, "Oh Aizen-same don't waste your time, i will finish them, pull back your sword (at that time he touch sword)" and baaam he pierce thought Aizen, i can't imagine better situation that this. In 100 years there weren't better situation that this in which Gin could touch Aizen's sword and in which situation Aizen will be off guard.
--Gin is not really good guy, he didn't care of Gotei, in the end he didn't even care of the Izuru, he never acknowledge him, even in the end, these two never clarify "things" and didn't have moment like Tosen and Hisagi had. Gin from what we know, only cared about Matsumoto and as long as she was alright and happy he was as well, he didn't really care if some shinigami die during FKT, as long as it's not Matsumoto.
That's why i highly think that this is not plot hole, and that it's one very plausible plot twist, definitly in rang with Itachi's story.
-That's indeed true, but it is a matter of taste, someone like when characters die, and someone don't. Kubo admitted that he didn't really make war (FKT Battle) like he planned, that's why he said that current Quincy war will be something unprecedented. I think that some deadts in bleach would be good, i'm really pissed off why he didn't killed Byakuya, But i agree that death list could be little longer.
- In my opinion no. If someone read just last 20 chapters of manga, this battle for him will be Indra and Asura vs Kaguya, actually that whole Asura/Indra reincarnation throw away whole Naruto and Sasuke development that was built for 15 years.
- Key word is official, she was mentioned by Madara, but again Madara's and Obito's stories was there for 300 chapters.
2. Yes, indeed true, but he didn't even come up with Ichigo with when he entered SS for the first time, instead he sent Yoruichi, there must be reason behind that, you can't just call that plot hole, because it's not explained yet.
Mayuri was the one that take over 12th division and Research institue, after Urahara was banished, and as you can see in Mayuri's presents it's forbidden to talk about Urahara, Mayuri don't really like him and he will not listen to him, no matter what Urahara say. The only member that was showed that have some relationship with Urahara is Akon (to some extent), but Akon was rookie at that time and didn't know much. All Urahara's friends were banished from SS (Yoruichi, Tessai, Shinji, Hiyori), so again i really don't see something that Urahara come up with. There were also guys like Kyoraku and Ukitake they most probably were friends with him, but Kyoraku saw Aizen's innocent with his own eyes, there is no way that these two would believe Urahara instead of Aizen. Also Aizen was good guy in everyone's eye (except in Shinji's), noone expected this from Aizen, on the other hand, Urahara originaly come from 2nd division (Assasination squad), so i just see more reason for neutra lpeople to believe Aizen and not Urahara. Also the was who is on highest ground in the SS is C46, so as long as they think that Urahara is bad, he is indeed bad.
- Yes, but Soul King didn't even talk, he yet have to official introduce himself and say some words about all "shits", just like Hagaromo, and as i said before something that it's not explained, can't be called plot hole.
- I think that you are the one who misunderstand me.
-- Some souls are born, in the SS from mother and father. They are born as a baby I think it was stated that Aizen is born this way, he wasn't human in his previous life, actually he didn't have previous life. It was stated in that special about Hitsugaya's birthday. All nobles we know (expect Rukia) are born this way and we have quite many nobles (Kuchiki, Yoruichi, Shiba, Kyoraku, Ukitake, Feng, Omeada and others low ranking family).
-- There are also souls that are born in SS after they die in Human world. They don't have to be born as infant. If someone die as 20 years old in the human world, he will be born in SS with also 20 years, if you had 50 years before your death in the human world, you will be reborn as 50 year old man in SS, in other words they wil and just continue their life in the other dimension. Rukia is the only shinigami (as long as we know) that was born this way. But she can't talk about her previous life, since she died as infant in the human world, that way she was also born in the SS as infant.
- As long as we know, That Fake Zangetsu was one who restricted Ichigo's power form the time when Ichigo become shinigami, but that doesn't mean that he didn't restricted his power from the very beginning. Also, Ichigo was never trained in the first place, so that he can shot arrows, even Uryu who was trained by many years are not skilled with them compared to Wandenrecih. Literally Isshin at that time was Human according to Urahara's words, you will become Human.
3. As i said death don't make manga good. But, ok, i can't either..
- Sorry about that i was one who made a mistake. I wanted to say "noone expecte Aizen didn't give good guys such beat".
- I was talking about Rukia, she was the one who killed As Nodt. That was most probably Kubo's intention at the first. Byakuya die in the first invasion. Rukia train with RG and than stomp As Nodt and revange her brother.
- Well, ok, i don't want to convice you otherwise.
- I didn't say that Naruto's story is boring, i just say that i don't like him. From my point of view character like Naruto are boring, they become so "main stream" in shonen and that's why I in some way like Ichigo, he is not like other shonen main characters. Ichigo's life was also very hard. His mother was killed, his whole life was nearly lie, even his most trusted allies (Fake Zangetsu) lied him.
4. Both Kinkaku and Ginkaku don't seems like someone who can pull out something correctly. They are more like barbarians and they seems more like Naruto, attack front door, instead of attacking someone's back. Raikage was surely kage level shinobi and bodyguards were at least jonin level, just look at the shinobis that where present in both kage meetings. It was at least 4 vs 2 battle, if not even more reinforcements for Tobirama's side.
- I don't see what power had to do with this. My statement was that Neji/Lee/Shino/Kiba/Hinata and others would be better if they are showed fighting some reincarnated shinobis, instead of fighting Zetsu clones.
5. I didn't say that. Did i?
I can also say that even thought Bleach (currently canceled) is second watched anime. And also Bleach 3rd movie sold more copies than all 10 Naruto movies together.
1. First time i heard something like this, but ok, not a problem at all.
- It gotta be before fight in Karakura town, since he said that it took him decades to realize it. He emphasized that in order to stop KS you must touch the blade before Aizen active his shikai. Aizen's shikai was activate whole time during FKT, so it wouldn't help him much at all if he jumped in the fight at gotei's side. There would be really hard to attack Aizen in Hueco Mundo, even if he was able to touch blade, Aizen would still destroy him with his other abilities (example - Kido). Same can be said for SS arc and before that. Aizen's shikai was very active, he fooled many captains and vice captains about nature of his zanpakuto and it seems also that he used his zanpakuto when he went to Human World to watch Isshin's fight there are probably more situations.
I gave my reason why i'm sure that this is not some plot hole and that Gin didn't really have chances to kill Aizen before his fusion with Hogyoku.
- Hogyaku Aizen was for sure stronger than Shinigami Aizen and if that was fair battle, without a doubt Gin's chances would be far better agains Shinigami Aizen, but there is primary problem: Aizen totally left his guard down when he subjected Hogyoku, he himself admitted that.
There were no better chances for Gin to take Aizen than in front of Ichigo's friends.
--Enemies are there, they need to be killed, no Aizen don't, i will do it, he (Gin) pull out his sword, stand in front of Aizen, "Oh Aizen-same don't waste your time, i will finish them, pull back your sword (at that time he touch sword)" and baaam he pierce thought Aizen, i can't imagine better situation that this. In 100 years there weren't better situation that this in which Gin could touch Aizen's sword and in which situation Aizen will be off guard.
--Gin is not really good guy, he didn't care of Gotei, in the end he didn't even care of the Izuru, he never acknowledge him, even in the end, these two never clarify "things" and didn't have moment like Tosen and Hisagi had. Gin from what we know, only cared about Matsumoto and as long as she was alright and happy he was as well, he didn't really care if some shinigami die during FKT, as long as it's not Matsumoto.
That's why i highly think that this is not plot hole, and that it's one very plausible plot twist, definitly in rang with Itachi's story.
-That's indeed true, but it is a matter of taste, someone like when characters die, and someone don't. Kubo admitted that he didn't really make war (FKT Battle) like he planned, that's why he said that current Quincy war will be something unprecedented. I think that some deadts in bleach would be good, i'm really pissed off why he didn't killed Byakuya, But i agree that death list could be little longer.
- In my opinion no. If someone read just last 20 chapters of manga, this battle for him will be Indra and Asura vs Kaguya, actually that whole Asura/Indra reincarnation throw away whole Naruto and Sasuke development that was built for 15 years.
- Key word is official, she was mentioned by Madara, but again Madara's and Obito's stories was there for 300 chapters.
2. Yes, indeed true, but he didn't even come up with Ichigo with when he entered SS for the first time, instead he sent Yoruichi, there must be reason behind that, you can't just call that plot hole, because it's not explained yet.
Mayuri was the one that take over 12th division and Research institue, after Urahara was banished, and as you can see in Mayuri's presents it's forbidden to talk about Urahara, Mayuri don't really like him and he will not listen to him, no matter what Urahara say. The only member that was showed that have some relationship with Urahara is Akon (to some extent), but Akon was rookie at that time and didn't know much. All Urahara's friends were banished from SS (Yoruichi, Tessai, Shinji, Hiyori), so again i really don't see something that Urahara come up with. There were also guys like Kyoraku and Ukitake they most probably were friends with him, but Kyoraku saw Aizen's innocent with his own eyes, there is no way that these two would believe Urahara instead of Aizen. Also Aizen was good guy in everyone's eye (except in Shinji's), noone expected this from Aizen, on the other hand, Urahara originaly come from 2nd division (Assasination squad), so i just see more reason for neutra lpeople to believe Aizen and not Urahara. Also the was who is on highest ground in the SS is C46, so as long as they think that Urahara is bad, he is indeed bad.
- Yes, but Soul King didn't even talk, he yet have to official introduce himself and say some words about all "shits", just like Hagaromo, and as i said before something that it's not explained, can't be called plot hole.
- I think that you are the one who misunderstand me.
-- Some souls are born, in the SS from mother and father. They are born as a baby I think it was stated that Aizen is born this way, he wasn't human in his previous life, actually he didn't have previous life. It was stated in that special about Hitsugaya's birthday. All nobles we know (expect Rukia) are born this way and we have quite many nobles (Kuchiki, Yoruichi, Shiba, Kyoraku, Ukitake, Feng, Omeada and others low ranking family).
-- There are also souls that are born in SS after they die in Human world. They don't have to be born as infant. If someone die as 20 years old in the human world, he will be born in SS with also 20 years, if you had 50 years before your death in the human world, you will be reborn as 50 year old man in SS, in other words they wil and just continue their life in the other dimension. Rukia is the only shinigami (as long as we know) that was born this way. But she can't talk about her previous life, since she died as infant in the human world, that way she was also born in the SS as infant.
- As long as we know, That Fake Zangetsu was one who restricted Ichigo's power form the time when Ichigo become shinigami, but that doesn't mean that he didn't restricted his power from the very beginning. Also, Ichigo was never trained in the first place, so that he can shot arrows, even Uryu who was trained by many years are not skilled with them compared to Wandenrecih. Literally Isshin at that time was Human according to Urahara's words, you will become Human.
3. As i said death don't make manga good. But, ok, i can't either..
- Sorry about that i was one who made a mistake. I wanted to say "noone expecte Aizen didn't give good guys such beat".
- I was talking about Rukia, she was the one who killed As Nodt. That was most probably Kubo's intention at the first. Byakuya die in the first invasion. Rukia train with RG and than stomp As Nodt and revange her brother.
- Well, ok, i don't want to convice you otherwise.
- I didn't say that Naruto's story is boring, i just say that i don't like him. From my point of view character like Naruto are boring, they become so "main stream" in shonen and that's why I in some way like Ichigo, he is not like other shonen main characters. Ichigo's life was also very hard. His mother was killed, his whole life was nearly lie, even his most trusted allies (Fake Zangetsu) lied him.
4. Both Kinkaku and Ginkaku don't seems like someone who can pull out something correctly. They are more like barbarians and they seems more like Naruto, attack front door, instead of attacking someone's back. Raikage was surely kage level shinobi and bodyguards were at least jonin level, just look at the shinobis that where present in both kage meetings. It was at least 4 vs 2 battle, if not even more reinforcements for Tobirama's side.
- I don't see what power had to do with this. My statement was that Neji/Lee/Shino/Kiba/Hinata and others would be better if they are showed fighting some reincarnated shinobis, instead of fighting Zetsu clones.
5. I didn't say that. Did i?
I can also say that even thought Bleach (currently canceled) is second watched anime. And also Bleach 3rd movie sold more copies than all 10 Naruto movies together.
Memento Mori
Active member
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Yeah Bleach is Worth Watching.
It has Good Storyline,Epic fights,Some Unpredictable Plot twists and good character developement
Overall Bleach is Worth Watching
It has Good Storyline,Epic fights,Some Unpredictable Plot twists and good character developement
Overall Bleach is Worth Watching
