[Discussion] bleach power level is overrated

kotoamatsukami

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it was my example originally to point out a fallacy. the no limits fallacy which is constantly being abused here with KS. the fact he got beaten nonetheless and weakened by a mugestu slash isn't being mentioned.

This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).

Example: "Itachi said that no one without a Mangekyou Sharingan can defeat him. Therefore he can beat all of DC, Marvel, DBZ, and Tenchi Muyo."

The person in this argument holds Itachi's statement to be absolute truth, ignoring the possibility that Itachi has no knowledge of certain enemies, or never expected to encounter them. The same can be said of Kishimoto: He never intended for his characters to be pitted in battle against characters from other works of fiction, so therefore statements like this do not hold true to other works of fiction necessarily. Furthermore, there is the possibility that in - universe, Itachi was lying, bluffing, misinformed, or deluded.


A rather common example here, but the reasoning would apply much further. the same logic is also applicable to aizen in this case with his KS, since 'no one' has broken out of it. well yammamoto did anyway. so once caught, you're dead, even tho the opposing char might be way more durable.

TL;DR hyperboles and fallacies are frowned upon in legitimate debates, whereas in nb they're rigidly abused with many verses.
Wait what when did itachi say that? I remember him saying that any one without ms can't brake my tsukiyomi..but the part anyone without ms can't beat him I don't remember the part.
 

kotoamatsukami

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so is it safe to assume that aizen lost his KS ability while in hogyuko form? or was he too blinded by his power?



his fraggor isn't as much destructive as the juubi TBB anyway with the feats he did, the size of the crator doesn't match the AOE of the juubi TBB. also, when you say any character, that's just no. we have universal level anime characters. or do you mean from naruto only?
You have to see aizen shikai ritual befor his KS can work ichigo never saw that ritual so he can not use it on ichigo no matter wat.
 

Υαmí

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I'm going to NOW respond to you failures because P31N already owned you hard enough -- don't respond, and I am not even trying, you tards have ZERO argument.

Firstly I will be using physic calculations, you cannot deny simple physics and if done such, your argument is hereby invalidated and you have ZERO credibility, less than you already have for not looking into the matter at hand. These calcs were done at NF and widely accepted, by people with Ph.D.s in the matter, no it does not matter if it's "not official", or "not canon", because it makes perfect sense and if you want to debunk the calc? Come at me right here or make a thread there, you'll be ridiculed either way.

Gremmy's meteor:

58-116 gigatons, now madara's meteor?

Madara's meteor? 1.54 petatons.

1000 Gigatonnes = 1 teraton 1000 teratons = 1 petatons.

"It's only mathematics."

Now for speed, most people say "HURRRRRRRR it's a god blitz, BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW" and never actually respond with anything of value. Speed is the distance covered over the rate at time it's done with, just because bleach looks "insanely" fast doesn't make it so because they have Houhou techniques and such, because naruto is far, far faster than bleach from the scaling most character's get from Madara, who was Mach 143 calculated.

So what does this mean for most naruto characters at the god level?
Hokages - All get the scaling except tsunade, and except minato being far faster than this.
Raikage - 3rd and 4th get it.
Naruto - KCM and up have it.
Sasuke - EMS gets it.
Gai - In his gates, he gets it.
Nagato - By powerscaling, should get it.

You understand my drift here about how many characters are faster? Now, "what's bleaches speed"? Byakuya and Ichigo in the soul society arc conquered a measely mach 29 feat, meaning god tiers who would stomp them are an undefined number over that, and no it can't be scaled all the way to mach 143, that's a hyperbole. -->

The juubi compilation, naruto's 2.6 teratons which later got revised into 7, making him a borderline country buster

106.4 exatons, meaning the current gods of naruto also get this scaling. -->

Juubi's attack speed at mach 24,000, this is nearing the speed of DBZ.

Bleaches highest feat, the fraggor while stacked upon another calculation, got 106.4 megatons

Now, the feats of godly characters? (It doesn't take juubito level and up to kill bleach)

Naruto has island level striking strength by knocking back multiple mountain busters.

What a PS slash can do no#1

No.2

Juubi's country sized casual TBB

They all with KCM enhanced chakra tanked the tenpenchii

.. Which was 539 gigatons.

Forbidden Tale, are you retarded?



It's because the naruto earth is 15x the size of ours.



... I don't see how this matters when everything pain level and up solos.

Well, thread killed. Again, you have no argument. L8r
I can agree to this, but how did you get those numbers? Were they just guessed?

Edit: never mind
 
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P3ĮÑ

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Wait what when did itachi say that? I remember him saying that any one without ms can't brake my tsukiyomi..but the part anyone without ms can't beat him I don't remember the part.
he said only a sharingan user with the same blood can defeat me...

You must be registered for see images


You have to see aizen shikai ritual befor his KS can work ichigo never saw that ritual so he can not use it on ichigo no matter wat.
that means no one in NV saw the ritual either.
 

Forbidden Tale

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Firstly I will be using physic calculations, you cannot deny simple physics and if done such, your argument is hereby invalidated and you have ZERO credibility, less than you already have for not looking into the matter at hand. These calcs were done at NF and widely accepted, by people with Ph.D.s in the matter, no it does not matter if it's "not official", or "not canon", because it makes perfect sense and if you want to debunk the calc? Come at me right here or make a thread there, you'll be ridiculed either way.
Mistake number one, this is shonen, real world =/= shonen, logic don't apply there.

Gremmy's meteor:

58-116 gigatons, now madara's meteor?

Madara's meteor? 1.54 petatons.

1000 Gigatonnes = 1 teraton 1000 teratons = 1 petatons.
What plonker you really are. You called me down retarded? You are using these, it's totaly other art style, you are the one who is retarded. And, that don't make sense even when you compare two pages from same artist, but comparing two pages from different artist is even stupider thing to do.


"It's only mathematics."

....
I can't really believe this, that someone can take this serious. Now I understand why Gohara left NF.


It's because the naruto earth is 15x the size of ours.
"Invalid Blog specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator". I suppose more calculations, again it goes agaist shonen logic.


You want calculations I will give it to you:

Gremmy's meteor can destroy whole Seiretei.

From chapter 76, four main entrances of Seireitei are 10 days walk apart. Given that humans tend to walk at 5.0 km/hr, this is roughly 1200 km or 744 miles.

From numerous sources total geographic area of Seireitei has the shape of a circle and the outer gates are split evenly, therefore quartering the circle's arcs. This places one quarter of a circle's arc at 1200 km and the whole circumference of Seireitei at 4800 km. Seireitei has a diameter of 1528 km or 948 miles, roughly around the size of Mexico. In other words, Gremmy can destroy Mexico with one of his meteorites.

It is not only the size you have to keep in mind. There is the shockwave of the impact that would be very destructive and the meteorite could splinter into many smaller missiles.

he said only a sharingan user with the same blood can defeat me...

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You took it too literal. When he say "only sharingan user with same blood" he reffer to the guys that can broke out of Tsukuyomi (Sharingan + Uchiha body)..
 
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Alphaqindyas

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The Naruto-verse has more raw power than Bleach, however, Bleach has more hax. For instance, Rukia may not be able to bust a mountain, but she can sure as hell beat most people in Naruto save for Naruto, Sasuke, and Kaguya.
 

kotoamatsukami

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he said only a sharingan user with the same blood can defeat me...

You must be registered for see images




that means no one in NV saw the ritual either.
I believe he was referring to the jutsu..plus itachi don't know about any dbz characters or anything like that he was only referring to the ones in the narutoverse obviously.

Yea no one in the nv world will be out under ks but still aizen is unstoppable unless they can weaken him the way ichigo did than seal him but that's very unlikely.
 

apple pie of doom

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I mean c'mon...anytime there is a versus thread between a naruto and bleach character most of the replies are...aizen GG...aizen planned that and this, i know he was a master planner, but BZ > aizen he was planning for a millenium.......also i fail to see any attack that is on par with a jinchuriki in bleach....and before you even talk about dangai ichigo, he was only crushing small hills...the strongest attack currently in bleach is "fragor" (the grand rey cero used by aizen ) and its DC is still lesser than that of a TBB.....also amaterasu > zaka no tachi
And you had to make a thread about this to prove a non existant point?

Here you go.
[video=youtube;SmsRN78qMxM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmsRN78qMxM[/video]
 

P3ĮÑ

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ou took it too literal. When he say "only sharingan user with same blood" he reffer to the guys that can broke out of Tsukuyomi (Sharingan + Uchiha body)..
still applicable as a no limit fallacy if used in crossovers, many people will wank this term to end, with no avail whatsoever. as it's a manga fact, some even claim cosmic level deities cannot break out of it. as you need a "sharingan+uchiha body)
 

Joseph Gomes

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I mean c'mon...anytime there is a versus thread between a naruto and bleach character most of the replies are...aizen GG...aizen planned that and this, i know he was a master planner, but BZ > aizen he was planning for a millenium.......also i fail to see any attack that is on par with a jinchuriki in bleach....and before you even talk about dangai ichigo, he was only crushing small hills...the strongest attack currently in bleach is "fragor" (the grand rey cero used by aizen ) and its DC is still lesser than that of a TBB.....also amaterasu > zaka no tachi
Aizen fodderizes Black Zetsu before Black Zetsu can open his eyes. Bleach characters speed =< DBZ. Naruto characters are slow as turlte
 

Narutofan4203

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Mistake number one, this is shonen, real world =/= shonen, logic don't apply there.



What plonker you really are. You called me down retarded? You are using these, it's totaly other art style, you are the one who is retarded. And, that don't make sense even when you compare two pages from same artist, but comparing two pages from different artist is even stupider thing to do.




I can't really believe this, that someone can take this serious. Now I understand why Gohara left NF.




"Invalid Blog specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator". I suppose more calculations, again it goes agaist shonen logic.


You want calculations I will give it to you:

Gremmy's meteor can destroy whole Seiretei.

From chapter 76, four main entrances of Seireitei are 10 days walk apart. Given that humans tend to walk at 5.0 km/hr, this is roughly 1200 km or 744 miles.

From numerous sources total geographic area of Seireitei has the shape of a circle and the outer gates are split evenly, therefore quartering the circle's arcs. This places one quarter of a circle's arc at 1200 km and the whole circumference of Seireitei at 4800 km. Seireitei has a diameter of 1528 km or 948 miles, roughly around the size of Mexico. In other words, Gremmy can destroy Mexico with one of his meteorites.

It is not only the size you have to keep in mind. There is the shockwave of the impact that would be very destructive and the meteorite could splinter into many smaller missiles.



You took it too literal. When he say "only sharingan user with same blood" he reffer to the guys that can broke out of Tsukuyomi (Sharingan + Uchiha body)..
Because if there wqs no physics in a shounen, their respective earths would not be rotating, the idea of motion would not exist, and everything and everyone would be jelly without form.

It's not stupid, sure size will be scaled differently, but that doesn't mean it does not have one. The art style will also not be diffrentiating what it is actually scaled as. Like, a ki blast from DBZ compared to a tbb from nardo. The tbb can seem scaled as bigger, but the ki blast will more than likely hold a much higher destructive force. The juubi tbb and Lanza. Ulquiorra's lanza seems bigger from how it is shown, but the aoe and destructive force of the juubi tbb is actually far higher. We need proper scaling for this or else there are baseless statements as to how strong something is thrown back & forth. It also isn't that simple, when calcing, they take into thought the feat, the distance is measured with several tools and often done back and forth to get the most accurate number, then how much damage the feat itself did or the affect it caused, sometimes the AoE or the crater it has made.

Even with your soul society area count, that's still a feat in the teratons nonetheless.

He didn't take the picture too literally, Itachi said no one who did not harbor uchiha blood could beat him, when now there are even people in his own verse that can do it, meaning if you take this hyperbole into account, planetary, galaxial, and universal characters fail at taking him down,
 
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