Bijuu Susano'o

[LeSauce]

So we know that the chakra didn't directly influence Sasuke's own jutsu.

What i'm trying to figure out is whether or not it increased Susano'o's defense and the way Sasuke controls it.

In my opinion, it didn't. We see that Naruto was still able to match Susano'o's strength, even before he got the senjutsu chakra. As well, their speed was still matched, and we see that when they continue to trade blows similar to how they did before.

Then there's the fact that Sasuke controls the speed at which Susano'o moves, and that Naruto's avatar, which had already been exhausted of Senjutsu was still able to have the same defense capabilities as Sasuke's Susano'o.

The only difference was that Sasuke now had chakra he could use to increase the strength of his techniques.

 

[Aznkidd]

So we know that the chakra didn't directly influence Sasuke's own jutsu.

What i'm trying to figure out is whether or not it increased Susano'o's defense and the way Sasuke controls it.

In my opinion, it didn't. We see that Naruto was still able to match Susano'o's strength, even before he got the senjutsu chakra. As well, their speed was still matched, and we see that when they continue to trade blows similar to how they did before.

Then there's the fact that Sasuke controls the speed at which Susano'o moves, and that Naruto's avatar, which had already been exhausted of Senjutsu was still able to have the same defense capabilities as Sasuke's Susano'o.

The only difference was that Sasuke now had chakra he could use to increase the strength of his techniques.

stop reading right there.

 

[Dantee]

It made his Susanoo stronger and better. The problem was his rinnegan was still too new and he didn't have enough strength to maintain susanoo. After the clash Sasuke could no longer use his rinnegan to regain the bijuus.

 

[LeSauce]

It made his Susanoo stronger and better. The problem was his rinnegan was still too new and he didn't have enough strength to maintain susanoo. After the clash Sasuke could no longer use his rinnegan to regain the bijuus.

How though? I don't see it.

stop reading right there.

But that's true.

 

[Dantee]

How though? I don't see it.


But that's true.

Narutos Avatar was getting wrecked but Naruto made clones to divert his power and fare longer.

 

[KidGamer65]

1. Sasuke's PS was taking damage from a standard Bijuu Dama and a PS Chidori, yet Bijuu PS let him survive the combined impact of Indra's Arrow and Naruto's attacks. PS on it's own couldn't have taken enough of the blow to save Sasuke's life.

2. Naruto's Avatar was not matching Bijuu PS in close combat. Sasuke was practically playing with him and Naruto had to use 3 Avatars just to stalemate Bijuu PS in CQC.

3. Sasuke doesn't control the speed of the Susanoo in the way you think he does. Susanoo has it's set speed and he just controls how it moves with his mind. Basically an extension of his body. Him being in control isn't going to make it that his Susanoo can't get faster.

 

[LeSauce]

1. Sasuke's PS was taking damage from a standard Bijuu Dama and a PS Chidori, yet Bijuu PS let him survive the combined impact of Indra's Arrow and Naruto's attacks. PS on it's own couldn't have taken enough of the blow to save Sasuke's life.

2. Naruto's Avatar was not matching Bijuu PS in close combat. Sasuke was practically playing with him and Naruto had to use 3 Avatars just to stalemate Bijuu PS in CQC.

3. Sasuke doesn't control the speed of the Susanoo in the way you think he does. Susanoo has it's set speed and he just controls how it moves with his mind. Basically an extension of his body. Him being in control isn't going to make it that his Susanoo can't get faster.

Mm, you're right about the durability part. Sasuke's PS tanked the 3 TBB and senbo yet the Kurama avatar didn't.

2. We don't know that he was playing as he said nothing of the sort. Combat wise the Susano'o didn't seem to change at all. Naruto could still react to his speed as before and they were still just blocking each others attacks. Had Sasuke's speed increased Naruto, who was previously at a stalemate with Sasuke, would not be able to react properly. It would basically be like part 1 V.O.T.E where one got a power up and an advantage in CQC.

As for when Sasuke used his S/T, he's faster when in cloak and was still barely able to turn around and still got hit.
Having the Kurama avatars be clones doesn't matter either because they all attacked with one punch. The feat is something regular PS could have easily done.

 

[Rikodou Mode]

He used the bijuu chakra to make a stronger Susanoo thanks to his Yin affinity.

 

[Holy God]

The defense increased due to the extra amount of chakra being able to respond and quickly regenerate the armor. The armor itself probably did not get stronger.

The direct offense probably was not significantly strengthened.

The speed doesn't seem to have gotten better either besides the use of Amenotejikara. The new Susano'o does provide a more agile and sharp look though, showing that it is best suited for close-combat fights.

 

[Seventh Sama]

Lol so sasuke's regular PS can use indra's arrow? The bijuu chakra enhanced everything in susanoo even the jutsus.

 

[LeSauce]

Lol so sasuke's regular PS can use indra's arrow? The bijuu chakra enhanced everything in susanoo even the jutsus.

Never said that.

Indra's arrow was used by exracting the Bijuu chakra he had stored.

 

[KidGamer65]

Mm, you're right about the durability part. Sasuke's PS tanked the 3 TBB and senbo yet the Kurama avatar didn't.

2. We don't know that he was playing as he said nothing of the sort. Combat wise the Susano'o didn't seem to change at all. Naruto could still react to his speed as before and they were still just blocking each others attacks. Had Sasuke's speed increased Naruto, who was previously at a stalemate with Sasuke, would not be able to react properly. It would basically be like part 1 V.O.T.E where one got a power up and an advantage in CQC.

Whether or not he was playing didn't really matter. If Naruto could match the Bijuu Susanoo in CQC like he was doing before, he wouldn't need 3 Avatars. It's that simple. Whether or not Naruto could react doesn't matter.

As for when Sasuke used his S/T, he's faster when in cloak and was still barely able to turn around and still got hit.

Not seeing the point here.

Having the Kurama avatars be clones doesn't matter either because they all attacked with one punch. The feat is something regular PS could have easily done.

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First page shows the initial clash. Second page shows the shockwaves from the rest of the clash. It wasn't only one punch. Like I said, if Naruto only needed one Avatar to match it in CQC, he wouldn't have used 3. Regular PS being able to do that isn't relevant, though there is zero proof that it can. That's like saying you can block 3 people with the same strength and skill as you, with ease. Doesn't make sense.

 

[LeSauce]

Whether or not he was playing didn't really matter. If Naruto could match the Bijuu Susanoo in CQC like he was doing before, he wouldn't need 3 Avatars. It's that simple. Whether or not Naruto could react doesn't matter.


Not seeing the point here.

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First page shows the initial clash. Second page shows the shockwaves from the rest of the clash. It wasn't only one punch. Like I said, if Naruto only needed one Avatar to match it in CQC, he wouldn't have used 3. Regular PS being able to do that isn't relevant, though there is zero proof that it can. That's like saying you can block 3 people with the same strength and skill as you, with ease. Doesn't make sense.

How does it not matter? CQC is heavily reliant on whether or not the opponent can react, and Naruto could react perfectly without any increase in power, ergo Susano'o didn't receive any speed increase. Not only that, Naruto was also able to move at the same speed Sasuke was moving, as seen through the clashes. They sparred and the only time Naruto got hit was when the Senbon and TBB clashed.

Naruto having made clones matters not as Sasuke has always been able to fight on par with clones out. Even when he gets caught off gaurd he can react to the clones properly as shown in 697. The only time clones are worth anything in their fights is when Naruto makes some sort of sneak attack.

The feat isn't anything special. He blocked 3 punches in a way any other skilled person could. As well, saying that because Naruto spawned clones he couldn't fight without them is wrong. That's like me saying that Naruto spawned clones when they fell because he knew he couldn't fight Sasuke 1v1.

 

[KidGamer65]

How does it not matter? CQC is heavily reliant on whether or not the opponent can react, and Naruto could react perfectly without any increase in power, ergo Susano'o didn't receive any speed increase.

Wrong. This doesn't even make sense. KCM Naruto vs. V1 Ay. Naruto can react to him. KCM Naruto vs. V2 Ay, Naruto can react to him despite Ay getting a massive boost in speed. Same example here. Naruto needing 3 Avatars to tie with Bijuu Susanoo only shows that it's CQC capabilities increased, so there is absolutely no reason to argue that PS=Bijuu Susanoo in physical ability.

Not only that, Naruto was also able to move at the same speed Sasuke was moving, as seen through the clashes. They sparred and the only time Naruto got hit was when the Senbon and TBB clashed.

Once again, Naruto used 3 Avatars against 1. Before it was 1 on 1 and they were evenly matched. So it makes no sense for you to say that 1 on 1 and 3 on 1 will have the same result because "PS is the same when it comes to physical abilities". Even though I've already shown PS's durability went way up.

Naruto having made clones matters not as Sasuke has always been able to fight on par with clones out

Sasuke was able to fight on par with Naruto's clones back when his clones weren't powerful and were mainly meant to overwhelm the opponent by numbers and distractions. Did you see Rinnegan Sasuke effortlessly taking out RSM Naruto and his clones? Absolutely not. Argument doesn't stand.

Even when he gets caught off gaurd he can react to the clones properly as shown in 697. The only time clones are worth anything in their fights is when Naruto makes some sort of sneak attack.

Please read above. The fact you are comparing Naruto's tired clones to 3 Kurama Avatars is crazy in itself.

The feat isn't anything special. He blocked 3 punches in a way any other skilled person could.

What you think of the feat isn't important. What matters is that you don't, won't, and can't effortlessly block the hits of 3 people equal in size, strength, speed etc with you, nor do you match them in a close combat spar. It's simple logic that can't get any simpler. 3>1=1.

As well, saying that because Naruto spawned clones he couldn't fight without them is wrong.

That's exactly what it means.

That's like me saying that Naruto spawned clones when they fell because he knew he couldn't fight Sasuke 1v1.

That's exactly what it means. Lol. If Naruto rushes at Sasuke w/ clones, it's because he can't go 1 on 1. He did the same stuff in Part 1. The only time he ever went 1 on 1 with him and didn't get wrecked was when he used Kurama's Chakra. Naruto was matching Sasuke w/ one Avatar up until he took in the Bijuu. If what you are saying here made any sense, he wouldn't have wasted his chakra to make 3 clones when he could've just continued on with that same Avatar.

 

[LeSauce]

Wrong. This doesn't even make sense. KCM Naruto vs. V1 Ay. Naruto can react to him. KCM Naruto vs. V2 Ay, Naruto can react to him despite Ay getting a massive boost in speed. Same example here. Naruto needing 3 Avatars to tie with Bijuu Susanoo only shows that it's CQC capabilities increased, so there is absolutely no reason to argue that PS=Bijuu Susanoo in physical ability.



Once again, Naruto used 3 Avatars against 1. Before it was 1 on 1 and they were evenly matched. So it makes no sense for you to say that 1 on 1 and 3 on 1 will have the same result because "PS is the same when it comes to physical abilities". Even though I've already shown PS's durability went way up.



Sasuke was able to fight on par with Naruto's clones back when his clones weren't powerful and were mainly meant to overwhelm the opponent by numbers and distractions. Did you see Rinnegan Sasuke effortlessly taking out RSM Naruto and his clones? Absolutely not. Argument doesn't stand.



Please read above. The fact you are comparing Naruto's tired clones to 3 Kurama Avatars is crazy in itself.



What you think of the feat isn't important. What matters is that you don't, won't, and can't effortlessly block the hits of 3 people equal in size, strength, speed etc with you, nor do you match them in a close combat spar. It's simple logic that can't get any simpler. 3>1=1.


That's exactly what it means.



That's exactly what it means. Lol. If Naruto rushes at Sasuke w/ clones, it's because he can't go 1 on 1. He did the same stuff in Part 1. The only time he ever went 1 on 1 with him and didn't get wrecked was when he used Kurama's Chakra. Naruto was matching Sasuke w/ one Avatar up until he took in the Bijuu. If what you are saying here made any sense, he wouldn't have wasted his chakra to make 3 clones when he could've just continued on with that same Avatar.

The comparison isn't even the same situation. Naruto couldn't even blitz against V1 Ay, but you're saying he used the same speed to blitz V2 Ay? Naruto got a speed boost, or learned how to control his speed better=power up. Naruto had no trouble reacting to V1 Ay anyway, it was just that Ay was going at the same speed he was.

Kurama's Avatar recieved no such speed boost.

He didn't have to use 3 avatars. It's a choice, it's not something that's mandatory. Naruto easily fought on par 1v1 against Sasuke and still summoned clones at the beginning. That alone proves that what he does isn't always his only option.

The point is that those clones have the same strength/speed that Naruto does, and Naruto alone was able to fight Sasuke 1v1, yet Sasuke still fought on par with Naruto's clones and destroyed them. Sure, Kurama's Avatar is stronger, but so is Sasuke's PS. If Sasuke was equal to Naruto, and he was still able to fight him and his clones, logic would suggest that he could do the same with PS.

He can't? But he was. Both of them were. What difference does one hand make? It's like an extra kick, which Sasuke already reacted to.

Yeah, and Sasuke should be able to destroy Naruto in CQC seeing as how he was able to make the clones, who have the same abilities as Naruto, go poof easily. Seriously, if the clones were too slow to react, Naruto should be too slow to react, but he's not.

Are you serious here? Naruto clearly fought on par with Sasuke without any clones. Did you not see the panels of them trading blows?

Why are we even arguing about clones? I'm only arguing that it didn't increase Susano'o's speed.

 

[KidGamer65]

The comparison isn't even the same situation.

I'm not comparing the situations. I'm telling you that being able to react to a faster speed doesn't mean that the person you are reacting to didn't get faster.

Naruto couldn't even blitz against V1 Ay, but you're saying he used the same speed to blitz V2 Ay?

Never said that.

Naruto got a speed boost, or learned how to control his speed better=power up.

Irrelevant as I never claimed the above.

Naruto had no trouble reacting to V1 Ay anyway, it was just that Ay was going at the same speed he was.

Lol. I suggest you re-read my post, cause the point flew above your head. Naruto reacts to V1 Ay. Ay ups his speed, yet Naruto can still react. Meaning Sasuke getting faster isn't debunked by Naruto still being able to react.

Kurama's Avatar recieved no such speed boost.

Never said it did nor is this relevant.

He didn't have to use 3 avatars. It's a choice, it's not something that's mandatory. Naruto easily fought on par 1v1 against Sasuke and still summoned clones at the beginning. That alone proves that what he does isn't always his only option.

Sorry pal. I'm not going to take your word for it. If he used clones, it's because he needs them to stand against Sasuke or it's because he needs them to win. That simple. If Naruto didn't need clones to win, he wouldn't waste his chakra using clones. It's literally that simple.

The point is that those clones have the same strength/speed that Naruto does, and Naruto alone was able to fight Sasuke 1v1, yet Sasuke still fought on par with Naruto's clones and destroyed them. Sure, Kurama's Avatar is stronger, but so is Sasuke's PS. If Sasuke was equal to Naruto, and he was still able to fight him and his clones, logic would suggest that he could do the same with PS.

Irrelevant. Same speed and strength, but the difference in numbers means a overall difference in power if used right. Are you going to start asserting that Naruto w/ clones=Naruto w/o clones? Lol. Come on now. Sasuke has never fought on par with a version of Naruto 1 on 1, and then destroyed whatever clones he made with ease. Never.

Hospital battle?

-Sasuke rapes all of Naruto's clones and they are about to clash with Rasengan and Chidori. Naruto would've been obliterated had he not used his clones.

VoTE?

-Naruto doesn't even bother with clone spam. They go one on one, and then Sasuke starts raping him when he uses the Sharingan and/or Curse Mark. Naruto uses Kurama's power to match Sasuke as nothing he has in his arsenal, including clones, will cut it.

VotE 2?

-Naruto fights on par with PS, then Sasuke's PS get's a massive buff. Naruto proceeds to make clones in response to that massive buff. Meaning Naruto needed to pull something stronger to fight against Bijuu Susanoo as he knew his single Avatar would get raped as it was stalemating with something weaker than what he's facing. You saying that he didn't need them is based off of nothing but your own opinion at the end of the day. Facts and common sense point toward the obvious conclusion. That Naruto needed the clones.

He can't? But he was. Both of them were. What difference does one hand make? It's like an extra kick, which Sasuke already reacted to.

So 2 people attacking you in unison is like 1 person attacking you twice in a row? Are you kidding me? Is this some kind of joke? Go fight 2 people your size and strength and tell me if it was the same as fighting one person.

Yeah, and Sasuke should be able to destroy Naruto in CQC seeing as how he was able to make the clones, who have the same abilities as Naruto, go poof easily. Seriously, if the clones were too slow to react, Naruto should be too slow to react, but he's not.

Not relevant. Clones being slow to react or not has no bearing on the speed of Sasuke's Susanoo.

Are you serious here? Naruto clearly fought on par with Sasuke without any clones. Did you not see the panels of them trading blows?

Lol, please read. I said that if Naruto rushes him with clones, it's because he can't stand against him on his own. I never said that Naruto never fought on par with Sasuke w/o clones ever.

Why are we even arguing about clones? I'm only arguing that it didn't increase Susano'o's speed.

You are claiming that Bijuu Susanoo=PS=Kurama Avatar when it comes to speed, but if that were true, 3 Kurama Avatars would've overwhelmed one Bijuu Susanoo. The only way Bijuu Susanoo would be fast enough to seamlessly clash with all 3 at once and block their attacks, is if it got a speed boost.

 

[LeSauce]

I'm not comparing the situations. I'm telling you that being able to react to a faster speed doesn't mean that the person you are reacting to didn't get faster.



Never said that.


Irrelevant as I never claimed the above.


Lol. I suggest you re-read my post, cause the point flew above your head. Naruto reacts to V1 Ay. Ay ups his speed, yet Naruto can still react. Meaning Sasuke getting faster isn't debunked by Naruto still being able to react.

Naruto also got a speed boost, which is my point. We know he got a speed boost because he was constantly getting blocked by V1 Ay, yet he was suddenly faster than V2 Ay. The speed of Naruto against V1 Ay and V2 Ay are not the same, and we both know that their speed is a major factor when reacting to something. That's why it isn't a valid comparison.

Kurama's Avatar didn't get a boost in anything, including speed.

Never said it did nor is this relevant.

Read the above and you'll understand why I said it.

Sorry pal. I'm not going to take your word for it. If he used clones, it's because he needs them to stand against Sasuke or it's because he needs them to win. That simple. If Naruto didn't need clones to win, he wouldn't waste his chakra using clones. It's literally that simple.


Irrelevant. Same speed and strength, but the difference in numbers means a overall difference in power if used right. Are you going to start asserting that Naruto w/ clones=Naruto w/o clones? Lol. Come on now. Sasuke has never fought on par with a version of Naruto 1 on 1, and then destroyed whatever clones he made with ease. Never.

Hospital battle?

-Sasuke rapes all of Naruto's clones and they are about to clash with Rasengan and Chidori. Naruto would've been obliterated had he not used his clones.

VoTE?

-Naruto doesn't even bother with clone spam. They go one on one, and then Sasuke starts raping him when he uses the Sharingan and/or Curse Mark. Naruto uses Kurama's power to match Sasuke as nothing he has in his arsenal, including clones, will cut it.

VotE 2?

-Naruto fights on par with PS, then Sasuke's PS get's a massive buff. Naruto proceeds to make clones in response to that massive buff. Meaning Naruto needed to pull something stronger to fight against Bijuu Susanoo as he knew his single Avatar would get raped as it was stalemating with something weaker than what he's facing. You saying that he didn't need them is based off of nothing but your own opinion at the end of the day. Facts and common sense point toward the obvious conclusion. That Naruto needed the clones.

Not


So 2 people attacking you in unison is like 1 person attacking you twice in a row? Are you kidding me? Is this some kind of joke? Go fight 2 people your size and strength and tell me if it was the same as fighting one person.


Not relevant. Clones being slow to react or not has no bearing on the speed of Sasuke's Susanoo.


Lol, please read. I said that if Naruto rushes him with clones, it's because he can't stand against him on his own. I never said that Naruto never fought on par with Sasuke w/o clones ever.



You are claiming that Bijuu Susanoo=PS=Kurama Avatar when it comes to speed, but if that were true, 3 Kurama Avatars would've overwhelmed one Bijuu Susanoo. The only way Bijuu Susanoo would be fast enough to seamlessly clash with all 3 at once and block their attacks, is if it got a speed boost.

I don't think you're getting it.

Naruto used clones in 697 to attack Sasuke. You claim that he needed them to fight Sasuke. However, in that very same chapter Naruto fights Sasuke without the clones and is still on par with him:

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This scan proves you wrong when you say that Naruto needed the clones to fight on par because of the fact that Naruto is equal to Sasuke without them.

If it was as you say and Sasuke can't fight clones on par the way he does the original, then Sasuke should have lost the minute Naruto spawned his clones, but he didn't. It's the same principle for PS and KA.

The fact is that Naruto did Rush into Sasuke with clones and then later fought him alone on equal terms proving that he didn't need them to fight Sasuke and the fact that Sasuke actually beat them proves that they hold no real advantage over him. As well, if in fact Naruto did need the clones, Sasuke should have beaten Naruto once he lost them.

Your claim would be true if it actually worked that way, but it doesn't as we see with Sasuke. He blitzed the clones, even when they hold the same attributes as Naruto proving that his speed and reactions were greater and yet he can't blitz the original Naruto.

The problem is that you think Naruto will hold to logic of this world, but it doesn't.

Not only does it not make sense that Naruto would be able to react to a faster Susano'o, it also doesn't make sense how he would even be able to fly at the same pace like he did.

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Next is how you're assuming that speed would have been the factor that let Sasuke fight the 3 KA clones and neglect the Durability buff that could have taken part in it, or the mass of chakra he had stored. That's assuming you're claim was correct anyway, which I don't think is.

 

[Chaosmark101]

So we know that the chakra didn't directly influence Sasuke's own jutsu.

Actually the bijuu chakra did influence his jutsu (Like Aznkidd said)

It buffed his susanno, let him do more raiton techs like the Raiton senbon, & Indras arrow, when before all Sasukes PS had was his swords & Chidori :|

 

[KidGamer65]

Naruto also got a speed boost, which is my point. We know he got a speed boost because he was constantly getting blocked by V1 Ay, yet he was suddenly faster than V2 Ay. The speed of Naruto against V1 Ay and V2 Ay are not the same, and we both know that their speed is a major factor when reacting to something. That's why it isn't a valid comparison.

Except he didn't. Why are you making stuff up? He was in KCM the whole time. His reaction speed never changed. The only thing that changed is that the last time he was able to move at top speed. But how fast he moved is irrelevant to REACTION SPEED. Which is my main point.

Kurama's Avatar didn't get a boost in anything, including speed.

Which isn't relevant as your explanation above makes no sense.

I don't think you're getting it.

Naruto used clones in 697 to attack Sasuke. You claim that he needed them to fight Sasuke. However, in that very same chapter Naruto fights Sasuke without the clones and is still on par with him:

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This scan proves you wrong when you say that Naruto needed the clones to fight on par because of the fact that Naruto is equal to Sasuke without them.

Read. In these panels, it's Naruto+Clones vs. Sasuke w/ his Sharingan active.

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This is where Naruto and Sasuke's equal 1 on 1 starts, but that's after Sasuke lost his Sharingan due to chakra. So no, Naruto never fought on par with Sasuke w/ or w/o clones when Sasuke's strength was held constant. He needed to be in Base for Base Naruto to match him.

Then there's common sense. Naruto had to use up 4 clones to survive the Shuriken+Chidori combo. Are you telling me that Naruto would've survived that on his own? Lol. Naruto used those clones because he needed to. That simple. You don't use jutsu for shits and giggles, especially when you are in a fight to the death.

If it was as you say and Sasuke can't fight clones on par the way he does the original, then Sasuke should have lost the minute Naruto spawned his clones, but he didn't. It's the same principle for PS and KA.

Wrong. I said he can't fight RSM Naruto clones like he used to in part 1. This was Tired Base Naruto vs. Tired 3-Tomoe Sasuke. The principle is not the same. Not even close.

The fact is that Naruto did Rush into Sasuke with clones and then later fought him alone on equal terms proving that he didn't need them to fight Sasuke and the fact that Sasuke actually beat them proves that they hold no real advantage over him. As well, if in fact Naruto did need the clones, Sasuke should have beaten Naruto once he lost them.

Read above.

Your claim would be true if it actually worked that way, but it doesn't as we see with Sasuke. He blitzed the clones, even when they hold the same attributes as Naruto proving that his speed and reactions were greater and yet he can't blitz the original Naruto.

Sasuke w/ Sharingan>>Base Sasuke=Base Naruto. So once again, your point doesn't fly.

The problem is that you think Naruto will hold to logic of this world, but it doesn't.

Lol what? There is no "this world logic" and "Naruto logic" when it comes to this topic. It's just pure common sense. You dismissing it because it's a Manga doesn't register as a counter argument.

Not only does it not make sense that Naruto would be able to react to a faster Susano'o, it also doesn't make sense how he would even be able to fly at the same pace like he did.

Once again, you aren't making sense. I can react to a snail walking towards me, but by your logic I can't react to a ball flying at me 20 mph because "It's faster". Lol. Sasuke getting faster=/=Naruto being unable to react. If this logic was used in any piece of fiction or real life, then people wouldn't be able to react to things that move faster than them.

Next is how you're assuming that speed would have been the factor that let Sasuke fight the 3 KA clones and neglect the Durability buff that could have taken part in it, or the mass of chakra he had stored. That's assuming you're claim was correct anyway, which I don't think is.

Please tell me how durability lets you block 3 people at the same time, when before you were matched with 1 person? That doesn't even make sense. That's speed. His speed increased so he could block 3 clones' attacks all at once when before he was evenly matched with only one. The mass of chakra is the cause of all his buffs. It didn't do anything directly. It only buffed Susanoo.


Lol, give up this argument. You are using:

-3-Tomoe Sasuke annihilating Naruto's clones, ignoring the fact that Base Sasuke is the one who tied in CQC with Naruto.
-This isn't real life.
-KCM Naruto got a speed boost.

As some sort of evidence for your claims, but none of those claims are right. Nor do they make sense.

 

[LeSauce]

Except he didn't. Why are you making stuff up? He was in KCM the whole time. His reaction speed never changed. The only thing that changed is that the last time he was able to move at top speed. But how fast he moved is irrelevant to REACTION SPEED. Which is my main point.



Which isn't relevant as your explanation above makes no sense.









Read. In these panels, it's Naruto+Clones vs. Sasuke w/ his Sharingan active.

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This is where Naruto and Sasuke's equal 1 on 1 starts, but that's after Sasuke lost his Sharingan due to chakra. So no, Naruto never fought on par with Sasuke w/ or w/o clones when Sasuke's strength was held constant. He needed to be in Base for Base Naruto to match him.

Then there's common sense. Naruto had to use up 4 clones to survive the Shuriken+Chidori combo. Are you telling me that Naruto would've survived that on his own? Lol. Naruto used those clones because he needed to. That simple. You don't use jutsu for shits and giggles, especially when you are in a fight to the death.


Wrong. I said he can't fight RSM Naruto clones like he used to in part 1. This was Tired Base Naruto vs. Tired 3-Tomoe Sasuke. The principle is not the same. Not even close.



Read above.


Sasuke w/ Sharingan>>Base Sasuke=Base Naruto. So once again, your point doesn't fly.



Lol what? There is no "this world logic" and "Naruto logic" when it comes to this topic. It's just pure common sense. You dismissing it because it's a Manga doesn't register as a counter argument.


Once again, you aren't making sense. I can react to a snail walking towards me, but by your logic I can't react to a ball flying at me 20 mph because "It's faster". Lol. Sasuke getting faster=/=Naruto being unable to react. If this logic was used in any piece of fiction or real life, then people wouldn't be able to react to things that move faster than them.



Please tell me how durability lets you block 3 people at the same time, when before you were matched with 1 person? That doesn't even make sense. That's speed. His speed increased so he could block 3 clones' attacks all at once when before he was evenly matched with only one. The mass of chakra is the cause of all his buffs. It didn't do anything directly. It only buffed Susanoo.


Lol, give up this argument. You are using:

-3-Tomoe Sasuke annihilating Naruto's clones, ignoring the fact that Base Sasuke is the one who tied in CQC with Naruto.
-This isn't real life.
-KCM Naruto got a speed boost.

As some sort of evidence for your claims, but none of those claims are right. Nor do they make sense.

I never said his reaction speed changed, I said his speed changed, and it did. Unless you're seriously suggesting that he used the same speed against V1 Ay. Had Naruto not gotten that new speed, V2 Ay would have hit him because he wouldn't have been able to react even if he saw Ay coming.

Naruto used his top speed to react, that's why it's different. He didn't block, he blitzed.

What you're saying would apply if Naruto did was block like he did against Madara (When he revived). Naruto wasn't only blocking, he was attacking, which isn't just reaction speed. If someone is faster than you you can't fight back, even if you react by blocking, yet Naruto was counterattacking.

He shouldn't be able to keep up if Sasuke truly did get faster. His clones may be able to punch more, but they wouldn't be able to punch at the same rate as him, nor fly at the same speed and create attacks at the same speed. Sasuke should have easily just flown away to attack, but he couldn't and got caught in the blast.


I did not see that he didn't have the Sharingan active, my mistake. But you're right.

Durability has no effect? Did you not see the Madara vs Gai fight? Sasuke could have gotten hit multiple times and just tanked it. Blocking is nothing. This feat is better than what Sasuke did.

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and that was done when Sasuke was slower than Itachi.
All this shows is that Sasuke is more skilled at taijutsu.