Biggest Plot hole: Itachi defeating Orochimau.

SkyGodHorus

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First let's see the fight:

1/ It's said that Itachi can't defeat Jiraiya even with Kisame's help, and we all know that Jiraiya failed to force Oro to return to village, let's just say Jiraiya = Orochimaru (it's not what the thread is about)
Itachi was sick in the present day timelines of Naruto and Jiraiya possessed Senjutsu and defeated several of the Peins as well as Konan. There's also the possibility that Itachi was lying considering...well..Itachi was a deceiver to everyone.

2/ Orochimaru got trapped into a usual Sharingan Genjutsu (not a MS one), In the fight between Itachi, Kisame vs Kakashi, Asuma and Kurenai, the latter one was able easily to dispell It by simply biting her mouth.
Kurenai's specialty was genjutsu and it was not Itachi's genjutsu but her own she dispelled when he turned it back on her.

2/ The databook says that Orochimaru has 5 in Genjutsu, Jiraiya for exemple has 3 and he is able to dispell Genjutsus while Orochimaru couldn't.
Jiraiya had an insane amount of summons and sages who could help him in addition to senjutsu, which allowed Naruto and Jiraiya to beat Pein. This is more or less an assumption, but it's possible senjutsu can dispel genjutsu being that it's an outside source or chakra.

3/ Itachi cut Orochimaru's arm when he wanted to dispell it, He actually helped him getting out of it !
And your point is? With one hand, it makes it difficult if at all possible to use jutsus. And Itachi wanted to exclaim to him that whatever he did was meaningless.

4/ By cutting his arm Orochimaru can regenerate his body so he was able te make it grow again and use handseals and Ninjutsu to fight.
Which takes time and again is meaningless when Itachi's visual prowess was so great he didn't even have to look into people's eyes.

Conclusion: The fight is a plot hole and Kishi is an Itachi fanboy.
You lost all your objectivity with this statement.
 
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Chie

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First let's see the fight:

[video=youtube;SqpKvdLKnRM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqpKvdLKnRM[/video]


here are the contradictions:

1/ It's said that Itachi can't defeat Jiraiya even with Kisame's help, and we all know that Jiraiya failed to force Oro to return to village, let's just say Jiraiya = Orochimaru (it's not what the thread is about)

2/ Orochimaru got trapped into a usual Sharingan Genjutsu (not a MS one), In the fight between Itachi, Kisame vs Kakashi, Asuma and Kurenai, the latter one was able easily to dispell It by simply biting her mouth.

2/ The databook says that Orochimaru has 5 in Genjutsu, Jiraiya for exemple has 3 and he is able to dispell Genjutsus while Orochimaru couldn't.

3/ Itachi cut Orochimaru's arm when he wanted to dispell it, He actually helped him getting out of it !

4/ By cutting his arm Orochimaru can regenerate his body so he was able te make it grow again and use handseals and Ninjutsu to fight.

Conclusion: The fight is a plot hole and Kishi is an Itachi fanboy.
And...not a single one of those are contradictions.

-No. Itachi said that he, Kisame, and other Akatsuki members all together would not be enough to bring down Jiraiya. Then in pt2, Obito states that Itachi was never there for fighting and only wanted to make his presence known so Danzo would hear about it, then leave as soon as possible.

-Yes, it was a Sharingan genjutsu in the manga. And no Kurenai was not caught in Sharingan genjutsu. That was actually her own, she cast it on Itachi, then Itachi reversed it back to her. Kurenai's genjutsu is lower-level and easier to break than Itachi's. That's why that happened.

-Jiraiya has never been caught in a genjutsu by Itachi and he taught Naruto his own technique to do so...the two times in this series that Naruto was caught in Itachi's genjutsu, he wasn't close to breaking out of it. That's normal and makes sense then.

-No he didn't. Causing yourself pain is enough to get out of Kurenai's genjutsu, but for Itachi's you have to disrupt your chakra (at least for his 3-tomoe). That's what Orochimaru was attempting to do, but then Itachi stopped him.

Conclusion: An Orochimaru/Jiraiya fanboy was desperate and trying to disprove a part of Kishimoto's story, when in reality it all made perfect sense.
 
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Darkakatsuki

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First let's see the fight:

[video=youtube;SqpKvdLKnRM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqpKvdLKnRM[/video]


here are the contradictions:

1/ It's said that Itachi can't defeat Jiraiya even with Kisame's help, and we all know that Jiraiya failed to force Oro to return to village, let's just say Jiraiya = Orochimaru (it's not what the thread is about)

2/ Orochimaru got trapped into a usual Sharingan Genjutsu (not a MS one), In the fight between Itachi, Kisame vs Kakashi, Asuma and Kurenai, the latter one was able easily to dispell It by simply biting her mouth.

2/ The databook says that Orochimaru has 5 in Genjutsu, Jiraiya for exemple has 3 and he is able to dispell Genjutsus while Orochimaru couldn't.

3/ Itachi cut Orochimaru's arm when he wanted to dispell it, He actually helped him getting out of it !

4/ By cutting his arm Orochimaru can regenerate his body so he was able te make it grow again and use handseals and Ninjutsu to fight.

Conclusion: The fight is a plot hole and Kishi is an Itachi fanboy.
On the 'It's said that Itachi can't defeat Jiraiya even with Kisame's help note'. You really can't use that statement to justify anything. We all know that Itachi was working for Konoha all along, obviously he'd say anything, and do anything (without being too obvious ofcourse) to prevent the capture of Konoha's jinchuuriki, I mean, he even went as far as killing his own family for that place.



Now lets recap. Kakashi (having found out from Jiraiya) accuses Akatsuki of trying to capture the Kyubi. Itachi doesn't have to explain or deny anything, but than he goes ahead and explains exactly what their intention is for no good reason, and he's very quick to point at Jiraiya as being the one who must have passed the information to them. Here, he is using Jiraiya as a smokescreen for the fact that he is confirming/giving out information almost blatantly.




I also believe that Itachi allowed Oro to live in order to cover for his own tracks. If Itachi was making sure that Konoha (Jiraiya) receive information about Akatsuki behind the scenes, he'd obviously need a smokescreen for his activities, and who better than the traitor Orochimaru to use as a scapegoat. If he kills Orochimaru, they'd obviously suspect him to be the one dishing out information. But with Orochimaru alive....well, that one is self explanatory, and even if they suspected him, he'd still have someone to point a finger at in Orochimaru.



Another thing is that Itachi, almost immediately upon Kakashi, Kurenai, and Asuma catching up to them, makes it clear that they should allow them to pass as he 'doesn't want to have to kill them', this is so clear I don't understand how people constantly miss it, they guy practically told em he don't wana hurt them.



Kakashi, after being hit with Tsukiyomi, admits that Itachi could have easily killed him, and than asks himself why Itachi didn't in fact kill him. Another blatant display of Itachi's killing intent against Konoha shinobi, or rather, lack of it.



Kisame and Itachi were not unanimous on the Jiraiya issue, Kisame believed Itachi could take him, and Itachi made up excuses. Ofcourse Kisame would believe that because he would have known that Itachi defeated Orochimaru, another sannin, but Kisame didn't believe that he himself could take Jiraiya.



There are alot of plot holes in that conversation I must admit, for one, most of the Akatsuki, in fact, all of the Akatsuki members were hell bent on killing Orochimaru and showed absolutely no fear of him, in fact, it was the other way around, Orochimaru was scared of them. Now how can Kisame speak of himself as if he is that far below a sannin (Yes, they were not argueing on the facts of Jiraiya as an individual, but their conversation was based solely on the fact that he's a sannin)? It totally doesn't make sense, and it doesn't make sense for Itachi to say all that nonsense when he himself knows, and Kisame knows that he took care of a sannin easily a few months prior.



Another factor is that Orochimaru showed zero percent fear of Jiraiya, in fact, he considered Jiraiya to be inferior to him, yet for some reason, Kisame and Itachi, who have no fear of Orochimaru, now suddenly have this strong fear for Jiraiya? More so with Itachi, considering how much Orochimaru feared him in particular.



Anyway, on a side note, have you ever thought that Itachi might have intentionally put a fault in the genjutsu he placed on that girl so that she would tip off Jiraiya when they were out of site? Lets not forget how much time Itachi was intentionally wasting in that meeting of theirs with Naruto. It could have been an easy snatch and go mission, but he wasted time with niceties and played around with Sasuke. Maybe he was waiting for Jiraiya to come back.
 

Chie

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I said Orochimaru addressed him, he's not the friendliest fellow. Seeing as Itachi already had a sense of what Oro was about, hence his encounter with Kabuto, him using genjutsu is likely. We've seen that is his fight against Sasuke.

A defeat isln terms of...pride. Orochimaru is a master mind, iTachi resisted that
Not quite. It was more like they were walking and Orochimaru tried to catch Itachi while he was off his guard, but then it failed miserably, well because Itachi always has his guard up around other members. Btw, how do you count it as addressing someone, when Orochimaru didn't say a word to Itachi prior to attacking him?
 
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Chie

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Exactly, was superior :)

Now Orochimaru is way stronger than Itachi was back then and more importantly is still alive. Moreover, the funny thing is that his 'prime' is yet to come :D
Orochimaru admitted that he was inferior to Itachi.

Orochimaru is not stronger than Itachi was back then...Orochimaru has been sealed away since ch 393, and came back during this war arc. He's been gone and not trained for the majority of Shippuden, still in need of a new body, and he's not strong enough to take over Sasuke's. Also, the man is 55. That's not quite his prime, he already passed it-unless you mean that he'll reach his prime by taking over someone's body, but all of the people he's interested in are stronger than he is, so it isn't happening anytime soon.
 

blazekev90

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Not quite. It was more like they were walking and Orochimaru tried to catch Itachi while he was off his guard, but then it failed miserably, well because Itachi always has his guard up around other members. Btw, how do you count it as addressing someone, when Orochimaru didn't say a word to Itachi prior to attacking him?
That's a possibility, but we only witnessed them being face to face. We can assume Oro addressed/approached him being that Oro was placed in genjutsu for a reason. Also, take into account when genjutsu was used and whem Oro became aware he was in genjutsu.
 

Tenasa Uchiha

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First let's see the fight:

[video=youtube;SqpKvdLKnRM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqpKvdLKnRM[/video]


here are the contradictions:

1/ It's said that Itachi can't defeat Jiraiya even with Kisame's help, and we all know that Jiraiya failed to force Oro to return to village, let's just say Jiraiya = Orochimaru (it's not what the thread is about)

2/ Orochimaru got trapped into a usual Sharingan Genjutsu (not a MS one), In the fight between Itachi, Kisame vs Kakashi, Asuma and Kurenai, the latter one was able easily to dispell It by simply biting her mouth.

2/ The databook says that Orochimaru has 5 in Genjutsu, Jiraiya for exemple has 3 and he is able to dispell Genjutsus while Orochimaru couldn't.

3/ Itachi cut Orochimaru's arm when he wanted to dispell it, He actually helped him getting out of it !

4/ By cutting his arm Orochimaru can regenerate his body so he was able te make it grow again and use handseals and Ninjutsu to fight.

Conclusion: The fight is a plot hole and Kishi is an Itachi fanboy.
Man i forgot about that ahahahaahahah
 

AnimusOra

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Guys the bottom line to all of this is Kishimoto is the writer and these manga chapters came out years ago. This arguing is pointless and invalid. Lmao your also trying to argue against Owarij? Good luck, he has a very great knowledge of the manga and in debating. Even though its stated that Orochimaru lost and everyone knows it as well as Orochimaru you still think or beleive that in some other world in your mind where you worship these characters that the outcome will change? Its naive and childish. You can go and have fun with yourselves somewhere else in your mind. Dont try to argue facts with fiction.
 
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lelerskates

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First let's see the fight:

[video=youtube;SqpKvdLKnRM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqpKvdLKnRM[/video]


here are the contradictions:

1/ It's said that Itachi can't defeat Jiraiya even with Kisame's help, and we all know that Jiraiya failed to force Oro to return to village, let's just say Jiraiya = Orochimaru (it's not what the thread is about)

2/ Orochimaru got trapped into a usual Sharingan Genjutsu (not a MS one), In the fight between Itachi, Kisame vs Kakashi, Asuma and Kurenai, the latter one was able easily to dispell It by simply biting her mouth.

2/ The databook says that Orochimaru has 5 in Genjutsu, Jiraiya for exemple has 3 and he is able to dispell Genjutsus while Orochimaru couldn't.

3/ Itachi cut Orochimaru's arm when he wanted to dispell it, He actually helped him getting out of it !

4/ By cutting his arm Orochimaru can regenerate his body so he was able te make it grow again and use handseals and Ninjutsu to fight.

Conclusion: The fight is a plot hole and Kishi is an Itachi fanboy.
Just a butthurt Oro fanboy. NOTHING TO SEE HERE, PEOPLE! MOVE ALONG!
 

Gaara Of The Death

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LOL this guy is a butthurt Orchimaru fapboy, even called Kishi a fanboy lol. Itachi was vastly superior to Orchimaru it was proven in the fight and Orochimaru admitted inferiority.
 

End of Days

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It is certainly one of the most over-blown fights by fans who use it to claim ridiculous things

This is laughable.

Even if orochimaru came with dozens of large snakes, continuous amaterasu spray would solo in seconds.

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and after using a such a taxing technique itachi falls down to the ground while orochimaru impales him with kusanagi

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Nothing oro has on might of susanoo + yata.
doesn't protect him from underground attacks
 
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