Biggest Plot hole: Itachi defeating Orochimau.

[UltimateDeadpool]

We don't know what the implication for the senju were or that every Uchiha used genjutsu.

Itachi doesn't need eye contact to put you under either.

Also Kabuto has more than Orochimaru's abilities. Orochimaru doesn't have SM, which is what gives Kabuto his sensing abilities.

We also don't know the implications of other characters and their ability to avoid eye contact. Fights aren't staring contests.

He can use handseals, yes. But what implications are you proposing for other genjutsu users? That Shii or Kurenai can solo Orochimaru?

Snake sensing and Sage sensing are two mutually distinctive things. Sage sensing is detecting chakra around the user, snake sensing is "seeing" heat and odor. Kabuto was also using snake sensing before activating Sage Mode.

 

[Remion18]

you've just appeared from no where

I dnt really think Kishi is going to show a real battle between Itachi and Orochimaru.

I only half the time believe characters words when they say one is stronger than them. Orochimaru stands a good chance against Itachi. Not saying he's going to win though.

 

[Owarij]

Proof? I didn't see him make eye contact with Kinkaku or Obito in my recent memory.

Oh god, The point is that your logic cna be applied to any jutsu, any situation, and be equally as ridiculous. Making eye contact is the natural thing to do for people and ninjas. It's why ninjas had to be told NOT to make eye contact with uchiha.

I'm sure he made eye contact with that Zetsu he took over as well right? when all he had to do was jump in his mouth.

 

[blazekev90]

Orochimaru wanted nothing more than to have Itachi join him, ultimately taking possession of his body. Orochimaru preys on the weak and vulnerable, itachi was neither.

There was no actual fight, Orochimaru pride was defeat.

 

[assface3]

Based on what we know, Oro should have stomped Itachi. But instead, Kishi decided to contradict the manga and let Itachi fodderize.

I call bs.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Juugo combined Anko's Curse Seal with Orochimaru's cells and his own flesh to give Orochimaru a body.

Orochimaru has a stated time limit of a couple years, 3 is a decent approximation.

No eye contact isn't impossible, the Senju did it for close to a millenium. The trick is to not look at their eyes. Hell, I didn't even make eye contact with people until I was made to by my parents as a teen because it was considered rude not to, I'd just look in peoples' directions. I often still do that.

Kabuto got Orochimaru's abilities, Kabuto had snake sensing.

Ok you right there. But being attached to sasuke made no difference as oro had all mobility needed and your snakes scenario didnt work, hydra heads were chopped off neg diff.

Speculation, either way only at the end of it oro looks weakened, he shown no signs.

No, senju vs uchiha is different, it was explained how easy to counter genjutsu in mass battles.
Yeah try having a fight with no eye contact now U_U

Kabuto had actual snake,oro didnt, kabuto had karin DNA, oro didnt, kabuto had SM, oro didnt.
Sensing of kabuto is combination of all, oro has none U_U

 

[Lightbringer]

We also don't know the implications of other characters and their ability to avoid eye contact. Fights aren't staring contests.

He can use handseals, yes. But what implications are you proposing for other genjutsu users? That Shii or Kurenai can solo Orochimaru?

Snake sensing and Sage sensing are two mutually distinctive things. Sage sensing is detecting chakra around the user, snake sensing is "seeing" heat and smell.

In Naruto they are. More than half the battle, they look at each other and talk. I'd say that's a staring contest.

Also sharingan genjutsu is more potent than regular genjutsu. Tsukuyomi, has not been shown to be es capable thus far and only a few Uchiha have had the MS.

All it takes is one glance and it's over. Aye fell under Madara's genjutsu when he knew not to look in his eyes, yet he still accidentally glanced at it.

Kabuto took extra precaution by covering his eyes with his snake lids just to avoid the risk.



Also the heat and smell sensing only applied to Kabuto's snakes, not Kabuto himself. Orochimaru isn't a snake, he doesn't possess that ability.

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[7th Path]

Based on what we know, Oro should have stomped Itachi. But instead, Kishi decided to contradict the manga and let Itachi fodderize.

I call bs.

THAT WAS MY POINT FROM MAKING THIS THRAD !

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[Owarij]

We also don't know the implications of other characters and their ability to avoid eye contact. Fights aren't staring contests.

He can use handseals, yes. But what implications are you proposing for other genjutsu users? That Shii or Kurenai can solo Orochimaru?

Snake sensing and Sage sensing are two mutually distinctive things. Sage sensing is detecting chakra around the user, snake sensing is "seeing" heat and odor. Kabuto was also using snake sensing before activating Sage Mode.

You want to argue that orochimaru fights using heat sensing of his snakes? Fine? It changes nothing. Itachi is faster than him, can make shadow clones, and summon up flocks of crows all with heat signals to mess with his sensing. And all this will inevitably end with him being sealed by totsuka. Or set on fire so much that he can't use his body replacement technique anymore
His large snakes will get turned against him via sharingan genjutsu, Just as Manda did..
He has nothing to contest with Itachi, bar edo tensei

 

[blazekev90]

Trying to argue that Orochimaru had the intention to have a full out brawl with Itachi is ridiculous. It goes against his portrayal and how he obtained his previous host (kimimmaro, fodder, sasuke).

Ignore those simply trying to give Itachi credit for placing someone in genjutsu who addressed him face-to-face. Lol

 

[Tobi98]

Let's say it was Tsukuyomi, check points 3/ and 4/

Tsukyomi can't change time so 1 second can be 10 hours in the tsukyomi, even if someone repel it he would still lose

 

[Owarij]

Ignore those simply trying to give Itachi credit for placing someone in genjutsu who addressed him face-to-face.

Lmao, Right, Cause Itachi is that guy who randomly puts you in a genjutsu for no reason when you're having a casual conversation with him

The databook lists this as a defeat. You can't defeat someone who wasn't opposing you

 

[sindi1997]

Just because you like oro that doesn't mean he shoulnd't have lost that way he did simple as that his power level is no where near itachis ... he admited he is inferior too its just the way things work in the manga

 

[AlphaScythian]

This is laughable.

Even if orochimaru came with dozens of large snakes, continuous amaterasu spray would solo in seconds.

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Nothing oro has on might of susanoo + yata.

Close fight goes to itachi no doubt.

Oro's edos are fodder level if hiruzen can restrain with clones.

Only thing he has is insane regeneration/survivability, but gets countered by genjutsu and totsuka.

Itachi clearly wins U_U

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Guys, this is a stupid thread

Itachi >>>> Orochimaru anyday

Itachi Ninjutsu >> Orochimaru Ninjutsu (amaterasu, susanoo, totsuka blade, yata mirror, yasaka magatama, exploding clone)

Itachi Genjutsu >>>>>> Orochimaru Genjutsu (finger genjutsu, crow genjutsu, genjutsu reversal, shackling stakes, tsukoyomi, izanami)

Itachi Taijutsu >>> Orochimaru (better H2H, faster foot speed, faster hand seal)

Itachi Shurikenjutsu >>> Orochimaru (no explanation needed i think)

Itachi only lacks in stamina. He would beat Oro fodder 100/100 times

 

[Nattana]

He lost because Kishimoto wanted him to. Itachi was essential to the plot - there was no way Orochimaru could get his body.

 

[silmarill]

He lost because Kishimoto wanted him to. Itachi was essential to the plot - there was no way Orochimaru could get his body.

lol ofcourse it was plot that let Orochimaru lose
U know why?
It was to prove Itachi was superior to him :|

 

[Nattana]

lol ofcourse it was plot that let Orochimaru lose
U know why?
It was to prove Itachi was superior to him :|

Exactly, was superior

Now Orochimaru is way stronger than Itachi was back then and more importantly is still alive. Moreover, the funny thing is that his 'prime' is yet to come

 

[silmarill]

Exactly, was superior

Now Orochimaru is way stronger than Itachi was back then and more importantly is still alive. Moreover, the funny thing is that his 'prime' is yet to come

that's funny I haven't seen new sh!t from orochimaru aside from his usual "snake coming from arm jutsu" in the war

don't get your hopes up, this is all about Indra and Ashura's succesers now and the basis of the problems lay with them, after they fight it out , I don't see what relevance Oro can still have

 

[blazekev90]

Lmao, Right, Cause Itachi is that guy who randomly puts you in a genjutsu for no reason when you're having a casual conversation with him

The databook lists this as a defeat. You can't defeat someone who wasn't opposing you

I said Orochimaru addressed him, he's not the friendliest fellow. Seeing as Itachi already had a sense of what Oro was about, hence his encounter with Kabuto, him using genjutsu is likely. We've seen that is his fight against Sasuke.

A defeat isln terms of...pride. Orochimaru is a master mind, iTachi resisted that