bible is confusing will i go to hell? no trolls

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Hattake Ryuzaki

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well my friend says that believing in jehovah wont save you because the jesus is the one who saved you and only thru him you can enter gods kingdom, meaning that for humans god can only be heard if you pray to jesus and not directly to god

and what makes him such an authority on the subject. does jesus talk to him? you should stop listing to what other people tell you and start deciding for yourself what salvation is.
 

Hattake Ryuzaki

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This happens when the old testament and new testament cross I think. Jesus is God's son, he was sent by God to guide us, he is a conduit to God and through him we seek and feel God. Believing in Jesus will not send you to hell.

Live and good, honest life, treat people well, be open minded, never prejudice and be open about your faith and you will be fine ^^

so i can go out and slaughter, rape and pillage and after just pray for forgiveness and accept jesus into my heart and all is forgiven?
 

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so i can go out and slaughter, rape and pillage and after just pray for forgiveness and accept jesus into my heart and all is forgiven?

Of course not, don't be ridiculous, where in my post would you even get that impression? Please explain what I said that would ever make that even pop into your mind from reading it? Because I find it disturbing that someone could misinterpret what I said that way.
 

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you creationist are so amusing i swear

I fail to see how creationism has anything to do with this.

Anyway - back on topic, I figure the whole text of Isaiah Chapter 9 is worth placing up for review:



9 [a]Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress. In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the nations, by the Way of the Sea, beyond the Jordan—

2 The people walking in darkness
have seen a great light;
on those living in the land of deep darkness
a light has dawned.
3 You have enlarged the nation
and increased their joy;
they rejoice before you
as people rejoice at the harvest,
as warriors rejoice
when dividing the plunder.
4 For as in the day of Midian’s defeat,
you have shattered
the yoke that burdens them,
the bar across their shoulders,
the rod of their oppressor.
5 Every warrior’s boot used in battle
and every garment rolled in blood
will be destined for burning,
will be fuel for the fire.
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the Lord Almighty
will accomplish this.

The Lord’s Anger Against Israel

8 The Lord has sent a message against Jacob;
it will fall on Israel.
9 All the people will know it—
Ephraim and the inhabitants of Samaria—
who say with pride
and arrogance of heart,
10 “The bricks have fallen down,
but we will rebuild with dressed stone;
the fig trees have been felled,
but we will replace them with cedars.”
11 But the Lord has strengthened Rezin’s foes against them
and has spurred their enemies on.
12 Arameans from the east and Philistines from the west
have devoured Israel with open mouth.

Yet for all this, his anger is not turned away,
his hand is still upraised.

13 But the people have not returned to him who struck them,
nor have they sought the Lord Almighty.
14 So the Lord will cut off from Israel both head and tail,
both palm branch and reed in a single day;
15 the elders and dignitaries are the head,
the prophets who teach lies are the tail.
16 Those who guide this people mislead them,
and those who are guided are led astray.
17 Therefore the Lord will take no pleasure in the young men,
nor will he pity the fatherless and widows,
for everyone is ungodly and wicked,
every mouth speaks folly.

Yet for all this, his anger is not turned away,
his hand is still upraised.

18 Surely wickedness burns like a fire;
it consumes briers and thorns,
it sets the forest thickets ablaze,
so that it rolls upward in a column of smoke.
19 By the wrath of the Lord Almighty
the land will be scorched
and the people will be fuel for the fire;
they will not spare one another.
20 On the right they will devour,
but still be hungry;
on the left they will eat,
but not be satisfied.
Each will feed on the flesh of their own offspring:
21 Manasseh will feed on Ephraim, and Ephraim on Manasseh;
together they will turn against Judah.

Yet for all this, his anger is not turned away,
his hand is still upraised.


Keep in mind that this is Isaiah speaking, here. Isaiah is regarded as a prophet - but prophets in the Bible are not infallible and their prophecies are not always supposed to be 'determined' - IE - the point of giving the prophecy is for action to be taken to avoid such a course of events - not as an announcement of certain doom.

Reference:

Jonah Flees From the Lord

1 The word of the Lord came to Jonah son of Amittai: 2 “Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me.”

3 But Jonah ran away from the Lord and headed for Tarshish. He went down to Joppa, where he found a ship bound for that port. After paying the fare, he went aboard and sailed for Tarshish to flee from the Lord.

4 Then the Lord sent a great wind on the sea, and such a violent storm arose that the ship threatened to break up. 5 All the sailors were afraid and each cried out to his own god. And they threw the cargo into the sea to lighten the ship.

But Jonah had gone below deck, where he lay down and fell into a deep sleep. 6 The captain went to him and said, “How can you sleep? Get up and call on your god! Maybe he will take notice of us so that we will not perish.”

7 Then the sailors said to each other, “Come, let us cast lots to find out who is responsible for this calamity.” They cast lots and the lot fell on Jonah. 8 So they asked him, “Tell us, who is responsible for making all this trouble for us? What kind of work do you do? Where do you come from? What is your country? From what people are you?”

9 He answered, “I am a Hebrew and I worship the Lord, the God of heaven, who made the sea and the dry land.”

10 This terrified them and they asked, “What have you done?” (They knew he was running away from the Lord, because he had already told them so.)

11 The sea was getting rougher and rougher. So they asked him, “What should we do to you to make the sea calm down for us?”

12 “Pick me up and throw me into the sea,” he replied, “and it will become calm. I know that it is my fault that this great storm has come upon you.”

13 Instead, the men did their best to row back to land. But they could not, for the sea grew even wilder than before. 14 Then they cried out to the Lord, “Please, Lord, do not let us die for taking this man’s life. Do not hold us accountable for killing an innocent man, for you, Lord, have done as you pleased.” 15 Then they took Jonah and threw him overboard, and the raging sea grew calm. 16 At this the men greatly feared the Lord, and they offered a sacrifice to the Lord and made vows to him.
Jonah’s Prayer

17 Now the Lord provided a huge fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

1 [a]From inside the fish Jonah prayed to the Lord his God. 2 He said:

“In my distress I called to the Lord,
and he answered me.
From deep in the realm of the dead I called for help,
and you listened to my cry.
3 You hurled me into the depths,
into the very heart of the seas,
and the currents swirled about me;
all your waves and breakers
swept over me.
4 I said, ‘I have been banished
from your sight;
yet I will look again
toward your holy temple.’
5 The engulfing waters threatened me,
the deep surrounded me;
seaweed was wrapped around my head.
6 To the roots of the mountains I sank down;
the earth beneath barred me in forever.
But you, Lord my God,
brought my life up from the pit.

7 “When my life was ebbing away,
I remembered you, Lord,
and my prayer rose to you,
to your holy temple.

8 “Those who cling to worthless idols
turn away from God’s love for them.
9 But I, with shouts of grateful praise,
will sacrifice to you.
What I have vowed I will make good.
I will say, ‘Salvation comes from the Lord.’”

10 And the Lord commanded the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land.

Jonah Goes to Nineveh

3 Then the word of the Lord came to Jonah a second time: 2 “Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim to it the message I give you.”

3 Jonah obeyed the word of the Lord and went to Nineveh. Now Nineveh was a very large city; it took three days to go through it. 4 Jonah began by going a day’s journey into the city, proclaiming, “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.” 5 The Ninevites believed God. A fast was proclaimed, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth.

6 When Jonah’s warning reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust. 7 This is the proclamation he issued in Nineveh:

“By the decree of the king and his nobles:

Do not let people or animals, herds or flocks, taste anything; do not let them eat or drink. 8 But let people and animals be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. 9 Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish.”

10 When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened.

Jonah’s Anger at the Lord’s Compassion

4 But to Jonah this seemed very wrong, and he became angry. 2 He prayed to the Lord, “Isn’t this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. 3 Now, Lord, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live.”

4 But the Lord replied, “Is it right for you to be angry?”

5 Jonah had gone out and sat down at a place east of the city. There he made himself a shelter, sat in its shade and waited to see what would happen to the city. 6 Then the Lord God provided a leafy plant[a] and made it grow up over Jonah to give shade for his head to ease his discomfort, and Jonah was very happy about the plant. 7 But at dawn the next day God provided a worm, which chewed the plant so that it withered. 8 When the sun rose, God provided a scorching east wind, and the sun blazed on Jonah’s head so that he grew faint. He wanted to die, and said, “It would be better for me to die than to live.”

9 But God said to Jonah, “Is it right for you to be angry about the plant?”

“It is,” he said. “And I’m so angry I wish I were dead.”

10 But the Lord said, “You have been concerned about this plant, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. 11 And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left—and also many animals?”


Jonah: "What the ****, God - why didn't you destroy them?"

God: "Why the hell do you think I sent you?"

Jonah: "But... but... I wanted them to die, so, so badly."

God: "You do realize that I made that shark spit you out, right?"

Jonah: ". . ."

God: "Yeah. Now stop being a douche."

Why the second part of that story gets left out so often is beyond me. Jonah was a prick. He proclaimed that Nineveh would be destroyed and then was pissed when he had a 'great spot' and nothing destroyed the city. "Great. I went through all of that for nothing."

The characters of the Bible are actually pretty damned entertaining when you read between the lines of what must have been going through the guy's head.
 

Hattake Ryuzaki

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Of course not, don't be ridiculous, where in my post would you even get that impression? Please explain what I said that would ever make that even pop into your mind from reading it? Because I find it disturbing that someone could misinterpret what I said that way.

but God forgives all right? if i just just pray for forgiveness and accept jesus into my heart i will be saved right? thats what the church told me, oh and to tithe of course. I know you never said anything of the nature but your religion has. why in the old testament was god wrathful sending plagues, floods and killing the first born son of the pharaoh but in the new testament hes gentle and loving and forgiving?
 

Hattake Ryuzaki

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I fail to see how creationism has anything to do with this.

Anyway - back on topic, I figure the whole text of Isaiah Chapter 9 is worth placing up for review:



9 [a]Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress. In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the nations, by the Way of the Sea, beyond the Jordan—

2 The people walking in darkness
have seen a great light;
on those living in the land of deep darkness
a light has dawned.
3 You have enlarged the nation
and increased their joy;
they rejoice before you
as people rejoice at the harvest,
as warriors rejoice
when dividing the plunder.
4 For as in the day of Midian’s defeat,
you have shattered
the yoke that burdens them,
the bar across their shoulders,
the rod of their oppressor.
5 Every warrior’s boot used in battle
and every garment rolled in blood
will be destined for burning,
will be fuel for the fire.
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the Lord Almighty
will accomplish this.

The Lord’s Anger Against Israel

8 The Lord has sent a message against Jacob;
it will fall on Israel.
9 All the people will know it—
Ephraim and the inhabitants of Samaria—
who say with pride
and arrogance of heart,
10 “The bricks have fallen down,
but we will rebuild with dressed stone;
the fig trees have been felled,
but we will replace them with cedars.”
11 But the Lord has strengthened Rezin’s foes against them
and has spurred their enemies on.
12 Arameans from the east and Philistines from the west
have devoured Israel with open mouth.

Yet for all this, his anger is not turned away,
his hand is still upraised.

13 But the people have not returned to him who struck them,
nor have they sought the Lord Almighty.
14 So the Lord will cut off from Israel both head and tail,
both palm branch and reed in a single day;
15 the elders and dignitaries are the head,
the prophets who teach lies are the tail.
16 Those who guide this people mislead them,
and those who are guided are led astray.
17 Therefore the Lord will take no pleasure in the young men,
nor will he pity the fatherless and widows,
for everyone is ungodly and wicked,
every mouth speaks folly.

Yet for all this, his anger is not turned away,
his hand is still upraised.

18 Surely wickedness burns like a fire;
it consumes briers and thorns,
it sets the forest thickets ablaze,
so that it rolls upward in a column of smoke.
19 By the wrath of the Lord Almighty
the land will be scorched
and the people will be fuel for the fire;
they will not spare one another.
20 On the right they will devour,
but still be hungry;
on the left they will eat,
but not be satisfied.
Each will feed on the flesh of their own offspring:
21 Manasseh will feed on Ephraim, and Ephraim on Manasseh;
together they will turn against Judah.

Yet for all this, his anger is not turned away,
his hand is still upraised.


Keep in mind that this is Isaiah speaking, here. Isaiah is regarded as a prophet - but prophets in the Bible are not infallible and their prophecies are not always supposed to be 'determined' - IE - the point of giving the prophecy is for action to be taken to avoid such a course of events - not as an announcement of certain doom.

Reference:

Jonah Flees From the Lord

1 The word of the Lord came to Jonah son of Amittai: 2 “Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me.”

3 But Jonah ran away from the Lord and headed for Tarshish. He went down to Joppa, where he found a ship bound for that port. After paying the fare, he went aboard and sailed for Tarshish to flee from the Lord.

4 Then the Lord sent a great wind on the sea, and such a violent storm arose that the ship threatened to break up. 5 All the sailors were afraid and each cried out to his own god. And they threw the cargo into the sea to lighten the ship.

But Jonah had gone below deck, where he lay down and fell into a deep sleep. 6 The captain went to him and said, “How can you sleep? Get up and call on your god! Maybe he will take notice of us so that we will not perish.”

7 Then the sailors said to each other, “Come, let us cast lots to find out who is responsible for this calamity.” They cast lots and the lot fell on Jonah. 8 So they asked him, “Tell us, who is responsible for making all this trouble for us? What kind of work do you do? Where do you come from? What is your country? From what people are you?”

9 He answered, “I am a Hebrew and I worship the Lord, the God of heaven, who made the sea and the dry land.”

10 This terrified them and they asked, “What have you done?” (They knew he was running away from the Lord, because he had already told them so.)

11 The sea was getting rougher and rougher. So they asked him, “What should we do to you to make the sea calm down for us?”

12 “Pick me up and throw me into the sea,” he replied, “and it will become calm. I know that it is my fault that this great storm has come upon you.”

13 Instead, the men did their best to row back to land. But they could not, for the sea grew even wilder than before. 14 Then they cried out to the Lord, “Please, Lord, do not let us die for taking this man’s life. Do not hold us accountable for killing an innocent man, for you, Lord, have done as you pleased.” 15 Then they took Jonah and threw him overboard, and the raging sea grew calm. 16 At this the men greatly feared the Lord, and they offered a sacrifice to the Lord and made vows to him.
Jonah’s Prayer

17 Now the Lord provided a huge fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

1 [a]From inside the fish Jonah prayed to the Lord his God. 2 He said:

“In my distress I called to the Lord,
and he answered me.
From deep in the realm of the dead I called for help,
and you listened to my cry.
3 You hurled me into the depths,
into the very heart of the seas,
and the currents swirled about me;
all your waves and breakers
swept over me.
4 I said, ‘I have been banished
from your sight;
yet I will look again
toward your holy temple.’
5 The engulfing waters threatened me,
the deep surrounded me;
seaweed was wrapped around my head.
6 To the roots of the mountains I sank down;
the earth beneath barred me in forever.
But you, Lord my God,
brought my life up from the pit.

7 “When my life was ebbing away,
I remembered you, Lord,
and my prayer rose to you,
to your holy temple.

8 “Those who cling to worthless idols
turn away from God’s love for them.
9 But I, with shouts of grateful praise,
will sacrifice to you.
What I have vowed I will make good.
I will say, ‘Salvation comes from the Lord.’”

10 And the Lord commanded the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land.

Jonah Goes to Nineveh

3 Then the word of the Lord came to Jonah a second time: 2 “Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim to it the message I give you.”

3 Jonah obeyed the word of the Lord and went to Nineveh. Now Nineveh was a very large city; it took three days to go through it. 4 Jonah began by going a day’s journey into the city, proclaiming, “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.” 5 The Ninevites believed God. A fast was proclaimed, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth.

6 When Jonah’s warning reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust. 7 This is the proclamation he issued in Nineveh:

“By the decree of the king and his nobles:

Do not let people or animals, herds or flocks, taste anything; do not let them eat or drink. 8 But let people and animals be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. 9 Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish.”

10 When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened.

Jonah’s Anger at the Lord’s Compassion

4 But to Jonah this seemed very wrong, and he became angry. 2 He prayed to the Lord, “Isn’t this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. 3 Now, Lord, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live.”

4 But the Lord replied, “Is it right for you to be angry?”

5 Jonah had gone out and sat down at a place east of the city. There he made himself a shelter, sat in its shade and waited to see what would happen to the city. 6 Then the Lord God provided a leafy plant[a] and made it grow up over Jonah to give shade for his head to ease his discomfort, and Jonah was very happy about the plant. 7 But at dawn the next day God provided a worm, which chewed the plant so that it withered. 8 When the sun rose, God provided a scorching east wind, and the sun blazed on Jonah’s head so that he grew faint. He wanted to die, and said, “It would be better for me to die than to live.”

9 But God said to Jonah, “Is it right for you to be angry about the plant?”

“It is,” he said. “And I’m so angry I wish I were dead.”

10 But the Lord said, “You have been concerned about this plant, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. 11 And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left—and also many animals?”


Jonah: "What the ****, God - why didn't you destroy them?"

God: "Why the hell do you think I sent you?"

Jonah: "But... but... I wanted them to die, so, so badly."

God: "You do realize that I made that shark spit you out, right?"

Jonah: ". . ."

God: "Yeah. Now stop being a douche."

Why the second part of that story gets left out so often is beyond me. Jonah was a prick. He proclaimed that Nineveh would be destroyed and then was pissed when he had a 'great spot' and nothing destroyed the city. "Great. I went through all of that for nothing."

The characters of the Bible are actually pretty damned entertaining when you read between the lines of what must have been going through the guy's head.


lmfaooooooooo you people who believe in a deity that created your planet and existence are creationist........
 

Aim64C

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so i can go out and slaughter, rape and pillage and after just pray for forgiveness and accept jesus into my heart and all is forgiven?

This is a loaded question.

The answer to your question is very simple - those who recognize their sin and are humbled by the offer of forgiveness are the only ones who can then truly accept that forgiveness.

In the case you presented - the sin is not necessarily the harmful actions against people - it is the belief that you can commit those and then simply talk your way out of hell.

Which requires a more complete understanding of hell than what is frequently discussed in religion. In most contexts, Hell is a place you are -sent- to.

Hell is not a -place- so much as it is a -state-. Asking if you will be sent to hell is like asking if you will be hungry when you wake up.

The vast majority of us are in a general state of ignorance. We can neither accept nor reject what we have very little awareness of. However, those who are aware (even in life) are potentially in one of three places; heaven, hell, or rejection.

Hell is not a place for evil people. Hell is what happens when good people are held back by their own sins. It is the rejection of forgiveness out of feelings of inadequacy.

Evil people reject the entire concept of there being good and evil - they have contrived their own system that they would justify with any means necessary to create it. It is a rejection of and action against the natural order.
 

Aim64C

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lmfaooooooooo you people who believe in a deity that created your planet and existence are creationist........

This is utilizing the literal definition of "creationist" - being one who believes in creation.

Except your argument has a flaw.

Obviously, the world came into being. Thus - it was 'created' in accordance with some process, yes?

Unless you think the world doesn't exist. In which case - the experience you have now is created by something, correct?

So you have to believe in some level of creation of the universe to even begin discussing the universe.

Now - what is commonly referred to as a 'creationist' are people who believe the world physically came into existence around 6,000 years ago in accordance with a very literal translation of biblical timelines. IE - when it says "God created the universe" - it was only a few days later that man was created and a few generations later before we have the story of Lot.

This is what is generally meant by "Creationist."

Of which, I am not.

If you want me to explain my theory behind universal and biological origin, you'd need a few years of education in Quantum Mechanics. Ironically - it renders the age of the universe irrelevant (and, in fact, to be something unknowable). But we are several major discoveries away from that theory gaining much credence or traction in the minds of the young physicists who will replace the old hold-outs.
 

Hattake Ryuzaki

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This is a loaded question.

The answer to your question is very simple - those who recognize their sin and are humbled by the offer of forgiveness are the only ones who can then truly accept that forgiveness.

In the case you presented - the sin is not necessarily the harmful actions against people - it is the belief that you can commit those and then simply talk your way out of hell.

Which requires a more complete understanding of hell than what is frequently discussed in religion. In most contexts, Hell is a place you are -sent- to.

Hell is not a -place- so much as it is a -state-. Asking if you will be sent to hell is like asking if you will be hungry when you wake up.

The vast majority of us are in a general state of ignorance. We can neither accept nor reject what we have very little awareness of. However, those who are aware (even in life) are potentially in one of three places; heaven, hell, or rejection.

Hell is not a place for evil people. Hell is what happens when good people are held back by their own sins. It is the rejection of forgiveness out of feelings of inadequacy.

Evil people reject the entire concept of there being good and evil - they have contrived their own system that they would justify with any means necessary to create it. It is a rejection of and action against the natural order.

well luckily for me i dont believe in your god or your hell so i tend not to worry about such things there is no "sin" to me. there is just good people and bad people. in my personal opinion people believe in "God" and "Hevan" because deep down they are afraid when the die that its all over, they might not realize it but psychologically you all need to tell your selves there will be something after death.
 

Hattake Ryuzaki

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This is utilizing the literal definition of "creationist" - being one who believes in creation.

Except your argument has a flaw.

Obviously, the world came into being. Thus - it was 'created' in accordance with some process, yes?

Unless you think the world doesn't exist. In which case - the experience you have now is created by something, correct?

So you have to believe in some level of creation of the universe to even begin discussing the universe.

Now - what is commonly referred to as a 'creationist' are people who believe the world physically came into existence around 6,000 years ago in accordance with a very literal translation of biblical timelines. IE - when it says "God created the universe" - it was only a few days later that man was created and a few generations later before we have the story of Lot.

This is what is generally meant by "Creationist."

Of which, I am not.

If you want me to explain my theory behind universal and biological origin, you'd need a few years of education in Quantum Mechanics. Ironically - it renders the age of the universe irrelevant (and, in fact, to be something unknowable). But we are several major discoveries away from that theory gaining much credence or traction in the minds of the young physicists who will replace the old hold-outs.

i dont want you to explain your theory behind anything i have my own and no i dont need " a few years of education in quantum mechanics" im sure i could understand just fine im not retarded thanks.
 

Aim64C

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well luckily for me i dont believe in your god or your hell so i tend not to worry about such things there is no "sin" to me. there is just good people and bad people. in my personal opinion people believe in "God" and "Hevan" because deep down they are afraid when the die that its all over, they might not realize it but psychologically you all need to tell your selves there will be something after death.

Obviously, your greatest fear is the only thing that I could possibly be so afraid of so as to believe something so illogical as a God. But since you don't believe in God - you're strong. You've tackled the greatest fear there is to master. And you're only 12. What more great wonders await you?

Different people believe in God for different reasons. Some believe in God because they have been raised to. Some believe in God because of what they believe to be miracles in their lives. Others believe in God because of disasters that have befallen them.

I have encountered very few people who believe in God simply by virtue of "I am afraid of dying." Death is a reality most people are generally ignorant of. If people were -that- afraid of dying, there would be far more life insurance purchased than what is - and not just when people get old. People don't think about death very often, much less their own.

So to use it as a "that must be why people believe such things I have deemed to be silly" is a cop-out, and generally what we call in psychology to be "Projecting."

But there is something after death.

My children. My grandchildren. The ideas I have communicated to others. Many of the things I have built. The impact of the lives saved by the machines I keep in working order and well calibrated....

Yet I still believe in God.

Because - at least to me - that process is God.

So, will there be more for -me- after death? I think so. I doubt it will be in a form I recognize, currently - but I believe there is something. Even if there isn't - there is plenty that will live on after me that I still have a duty to.
 

NaNaNaaaaa

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Obviously, your greatest fear is the only thing that I could possibly be so afraid of so as to believe something so illogical as a God. But since you don't believe in God - you're strong. You've tackled the greatest fear there is to master. And you're only 12. What more great wonders await you?

Different people believe in God for different reasons. Some believe in God because they have been raised to. Some believe in God because of what they believe to be miracles in their lives. Others believe in God because of disasters that have befallen them.

I have encountered very few people who believe in God simply by virtue of "I am afraid of dying." Death is a reality most people are generally ignorant of. If people were -that- afraid of dying, there would be far more life insurance purchased than what is - and not just when people get old. People don't think about death very often, much less their own.

So to use it as a "that must be why people believe such things I have deemed to be silly" is a cop-out, and generally what we call in psychology to be "Projecting."

But there is something after death.

My children. My grandchildren. The ideas I have communicated to others. Many of the things I have built. The impact of the lives saved by the machines I keep in working order and well calibrated....

Yet I still believe in God.

Because - at least to me - that process is God.

So, will there be more for -me- after death? I think so. I doubt it will be in a form I recognize, currently - but I believe there is something. Even if there isn't - there is plenty that will live on after me that I still have a duty to.

Excellent post. I believe in God because I wish to. Faith gives me comfort, hope and warmth. It has nothing to do with death, in fact I have a totally different view of the afterlife than what is tought by the church. I love God, I love the Church but I don't follow the church that much because I don't like some of there views. I believe in God my own way and in the church my own way, I don't believe in Adam and Eve, I believe in Darwins theory of evolution.

Faith is a personal and individual thing and everybody's faith or lack of it should be respected.

And God does not forgive all by praying, that is why Hell is supposed to exist, if he forgave everybody just by praying then there would be no such thing as damnation.
 

Hattake Ryuzaki

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Obviously, your greatest fear is the only thing that I could possibly be so afraid of so as to believe something so illogical as a God. But since you don't believe in God - you're strong. You've tackled the greatest fear there is to master. And you're only 12. What more great wonders await you?

Different people believe in God for different reasons. Some believe in God because they have been raised to. Some believe in God because of what they believe to be miracles in their lives. Others believe in God because of disasters that have befallen them.

I have encountered very few people who believe in God simply by virtue of "I am afraid of dying." Death is a reality most people are generally ignorant of. If people were -that- afraid of dying, there would be far more life insurance purchased than what is - and not just when people get old. People don't think about death very often, much less their own.

So to use it as a "that must be why people believe such things I have deemed to be silly" is a cop-out, and generally what we call in psychology to be "Projecting."

But there is something after death.

My children. My grandchildren. The ideas I have communicated to others. Many of the things I have built. The impact of the lives saved by the machines I keep in working order and well calibrated....

Yet I still believe in God.

Because - at least to me - that process is God.

So, will there be more for -me- after death? I think so. I doubt it will be in a form I recognize, currently - but I believe there is something. Even if there isn't - there is plenty that will live on after me that I still have a duty to.

I simply disagree with you and all you have to say. in fact i dont much like how you've insulted my intelligence twice now so im going to end this conversation now. dont bother replying.
 

Hattake Ryuzaki

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Excellent post. I believe in God because I wish to. Faith gives me comfort, hope and warmth. It has nothing to do with death, in fact I have a totally different view of the afterlife than what is tought by the church. I love God, I love the Church but I don't follow the church that much because I don't like some of there views. I believe in God my own way and in the church my own way, I don't believe in Adam and Eve, I believe in Darwins theory of evolution.

Faith is a personal and individual thing and everybody's faith or lack of it should be respected.

And God does not forgive all by praying, that is why Hell is supposed to exist, if he forgave everybody just by praying then there would be no such thing as damnation.

people like you are the reason i despise religion.
 

NaNaNaaaaa

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people like you are the reason i despise religion.

Why? Because I have my own view on faith? Because I believe everybody is entitled to believe or not believe in whatever they wish? Because I choose to believe in God my own way? I'm not righteous, I don't preach, I don't disrespect anyone else's beliefs or try to convince them to believe in something they do not wish to, so what is so offensive?

You are entitled to your opinion on religion of course but I just don't understand why my post has the elements of the reasons why you hate religion.
 
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Hattake Ryuzaki

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Why? Because I have my own view on faith? Because I believe everybody is entitled to believe or not believe in whatever they wish? Because I choose to believe in God my own way? I'm not righteous, I don't preach, I don't disrespect anyone else's beliefs or try to convince them to believe in something they do not wish to, so what is so offensive?

because i feel the world would be a much better place with out your "God" and your "organized religion" Christianity, Islam,Judaism and all the rest of them are just brainwashing cults who fight one another over whose imaginary best friend is the correct one. the extremist suicide bomb innocents and behead innocents for not believing in their faith. If there was a god he would have put an end to this filth long ago.
 

NaNaNaaaaa

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because i feel the world would be a much better place with out your "God" and your "organized religion" Christianity, Islam,Judaism and all the rest of them are just brainwashing cults who fight one another over whose imaginary best friend is the correct one. the extremist suicide bomb innocents and behead innocents for not believing in their faith. If there was a god he would have put an end to this filth long ago.

I wont argue with your beliefs you are completely entitled to them but you have to remember that others are entitled to there's as well. Religion is the excuse for violence, people think removing it would end the violence but it wouldn't, people would find another ideology to fight over, another reason, there have been plenty of wars not based on religion as well, its sad.

I could go on for a long time about why God does and doesn't do that and this but you don't want to hear it, its boring LOL

Religion isn't perfect, I don't follow the church that much because I don't agree with some of the things they do.

God and the Church are different things, to me anyway.

However, I don't understand why I'm the type of person who makes you hate religion, if I was self righteous and preachy I could understand, oh well, take care.
 

Aim64C

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I simply disagree with you and all you have to say. in fact i dont much like how you've insulted my intelligence twice now so im going to end this conversation now. dont bother replying.

Intelligence is having the audacity to believe you understand or can predict something.

Wisdom is getting used to the idea that you will often fail at both.

The fact of the matter is that you don't disagree with anything I have to say - you can't find anything to pick at. Probably because I've been handling this 'enlightenment' of yours since before you were on this earth.

You're used to arguing with people who do little more than post "I love Jesus" on their facebook page - so it's understandable you would find your posts not nearly as enlightened as you first thought.

At which point your strategy completely folds and you are upset with me not for what I believe - but for the fact that I destroyed your means of feeling important and intelligent.

You'll figure it out in time, though. A few dozen more times having your face planted into the ground, and you'll start to take shape. You'll never lose the chip on your shoulder - but that isn't a completely bad thing. You'll just get better at knowing what you need to do in order to in order to set yourself up to win - and what battles you have what you need to win.

In the end - the desire to be the one who wins will end up steering you along the path that always wins. So you'll be okay.

Edit: See - to prove my point, I got confused on who started the thread versus who I was arguing with. Avatars all look the same after a while. I just lines of text that they are wrong.
 
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Scooby Doo

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I simply disagree with you and all you have to say. in fact i dont much like how you've insulted my intelligence twice now so im going to end this conversation now. dont bother replying.

One does not simply tell Aim64C not to bother replying (by experience u.u)

But it's funny when people use the age "argument". When I was 12, I was much happier for example, and even a 12 yrs old can be better at things than adults.

Just to stay on topic...as for heaven...I don't believe in any of that stuff. I've already experienced hell on earth anyway. I guess we all do, sometimes. If I deserve some afterlife punishment for the way I'm living (and I live by the Christian values more than some so called "Christians") then let it be, I take the responsibility- not that I can run away, right?...But when I hear people saying that 'atheists must be sad persons because they don't have hope or they think life is just coincidence' - well that annoys me. It seems they are the people who believe in god because they want reward, not punishment. But that's a rather low stage of moral development. But whatever sails their ship- there are so many philosophies in this world to choose from.

Personally I grew to like the philosophy of Albert Camus. Basically his philosophy is the 'absurd' : life itself doesn't have a purpose but we still should choose to live on. We should struggle and love. At least this is how I understood his works. His thoughts may not be that unique-but well there is not much 'new under the sun'. A Hungarian author wrote a play a hundred years before Camus in which Lucifer guides Adam into the future. He shows them certain times of history through ancient Egypt and the French revolution, till mankind is almost extinct. Unlike Goethe's Faust -that deals with what is the purpose of life-, Madách asks if life has a purpose at all? His conclusion is that life=struggle=death. Now it'd take much more explanation as to how that makes sense but in short he also says struggle. The play is about the consequences of Adam's sin (the 'Tragedy of Man'): had he not sinned, we could live happily ever after. But now we have to struggle to find paradise lost.

I find it hard though to struggle sometimes, but I'm simply convinced of something so I can't just start believing in god, to ease my solitude. On the other hand I can't just live for myself, either. And to live simply for the sake of struggling is hard. So right now my purpose is to find a purpose xD It'd be so easy to just quit. Camus said the only question of philosophy is whether to commit suicide or not. I've been there. People can judge as much as they want, but in the end it doesn't make much difference. We all have a choice. And we have to live with the consequences of our choice. I carry my burden, you carry yours. The belief of afterlife in itself doesn't lessen nor increase the weight of responsibility. I've seen religious persons die in despair, or kill themselves too, and I see uneducated people live happily. In the end it has more to do with the inner certainty of doing the "right" thing. Which probably means I'm doing something wrong. I'm gonna figure that out however I may not find out the answer. But for now, death is not an answer either. I have to admit that I even have to entertain the idea of stopping to outright refuse the concept of god (However, I could always imagine that 'god' is the 'conscious' universe itself: energy that always existed and goes through different phases of existence: birth, expansion, collapse, birth...etc. : an endless cycle. I just omit the religious personification of that energy.)

In the end we all choose a philosophy that best describes our life. (As Fichte said- and it's similar to Marx's saying). We adopt ideas that help us best to struggle with our hardships- and that is partly what evolution is about.
 
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ugh

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Islam is the way to go.
it has the answers to all your questions. of course, many people will have something bad to say about it, but i guarentee that they have absolutely no knowledge about Islam and are basically just saying what they heard some anti-islamic person say. U_U

La Illah ha Illallah Muhamadur Rasoolulah.
(There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his Messenger and servant.)

Just waiting 4 dat h8 male tbh <.<
 
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