Base Naruto Jonin lvl ??

Dantee

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If I recall correctly, both the shadow clone technique are both jonin level techniques and his skills with them are better than anyone in the village ,and his chakra level in base mode far surpass any one in the village except maybe Tsunade and this is in base mode. The basis of many people ninjutsu depends on only a few niinjutsu, eg Minato whose ninjutsu was based on the rasengan and FTG

He also outsmarted Pain several times and whether he is in sage mode or not is irrelevant as it doesn't give you any sort of intelligence boost as far as I know. He has also done this several times. Please just give Naruto repect where it is due.
The first part I agree with most of it. However his base skills are nothing but ordinary. Just look at how he matches up with other jounins in base.

While he was fighting pein he was not using his base skills only sage mode skills. I don't recall much of that fight all I know is that he had massive help and already much intelligence.
 

Turson

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Naruto in Base form is really not all that impressive,. With rasengan, shadow clones, average taijutsu ,speed, and strength, and intelligence, he isn't much to be considered for any higher than chuunin
A couple of three things:
1. Narutos Taijutsu istn average:



2. Narutos speed isnt avarage:



3. Avarage intelligence? Naruto is stupid when it comes to daily life, when he fights he comes up with very good strategy in almost every one of his battle.

Overall, I dont see how base Naruto is weaker that Asuma.
 

silmarill

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A couple of three things:
1. Narutos Taijutsu istn average:



2. Narutos speed isnt avarage:



3. Avarage intelligence? Naruto is stupid when it comes to daily life, when he fights he comes up with very good strategy in almost every one of his battle.

Overall, I dont see how base Naruto is weaker that Asuma.
base naruto would wreck asuma
 

spatha

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A-rank is jonin level , kage level is S-rank and also Experienced jonins
you do realise that the rank of his jutsu has nothing to do with a ninjas rank. Look it up in databooks, s-rank jutsus are typically described as very difficult but also as almost exclusively unique to that ninja, meaning it would take a damn long time for any of the kages to bust outr a good rasengan, which is by the way an S rank not A rank. Id have to agree that base he is high jounin, straddling the border of kage level. And as the other fellow stated, check your facts, sage mode is classified as a jutsu because all the nature chakra does is allow you to pull off certain moves that you couldnt do normally, because nature chakra is far more potent than most ninjas chakra. The appearance change is merely a side effect of allowing the nature chakra into your body. Even without it, i see him as high jounin level, We havent seen his base mode snce he started busting out these new forms, im willing to bet his strength and speed have increased overall. And you compare him to kakashi and others, but if you say his base you hav to say kakashi base with no sharingan, after all its not natural to him, which means he wouldnt know 99% of the jutsu he knows, and would be very weak. In true base comparison of everyone, gai and rock lee would be gods.
 
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Beastbomb

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Well that S- Rank tech makes him loads stronger :) he took two of kakuzu's hearts in a single blow , unlike kakashi who is a jonin
He took 3 of his hearts

However I agree that in base mode he would bo jonin level he has kage bunshin I'm not sure what rank level this is but its from the scroll of sealing which contains several forbbiden jutsu so I will give it A-rank. He has rasengan which is high A-rank he has rasenshuriken S-rank his taijutsu is average but he can make up for this in numbers and he has good in-battle intelligence so he has more than just 1 S-rank jutsu.
 

fastrthnwind

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A couple of three things:
1. Narutos Taijutsu istn average:



2. Narutos speed isnt avarage:



3. Avarage intelligence? Naruto is stupid when it comes to daily life, when he fights he comes up with very good strategy in almost every one of his battle.

Overall, I dont see how base Naruto is weaker that Asuma.
In the fightning scenes, he show that he is decent at holding his own aginst other opponents and working well with others. It's not all that remarkable as he isn't overwhelming his opponents with any great taijutsu skills either.

In the latter scene, he showed up unexpectedly to save sakura, and most likely used shunshin jutsu to speed up his movements.

In most of his battles, he either has:
1) Information

or

2) Someone who is smarter than him assisting him in battle

He rarely has shown intelligence on a great scale and his battle tactics are crude at best with his constant spamming of shadow clones and rasengan.
 

minato4th

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When Naruto Came back from his 2 and half years of training with Jiraiya, he was practically crammed with alot of power and skill. He was at least a low or mid Jounin level at the time. Don't you think with the addition of Sage Mode, Rasen-Shuriken and Full Power Kyubbi Mode. That Would raise Naruto's Base Form to a certain degree ? Like Kage level Perhaps ?
 

fastrthnwind

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he would wreck asuma
imagine this
*3 big toad summons
*50 clones spamming rasengan
*rasenshuriken
*ma and pa , its not like he need to be in sage mode to summon them or anything
asuma wont last a minute i believe
1)In base mode he hasn't shown the ability to summon three large toads. The ones summoned during the pain fight were reversed summoned by ma while she was in the village.
2)He probably could spam 50 clones with rasengan.
3)He can only use rasenshuriken in sage mode. If he used it in base mode, then it would destroy his chakra network as he can't throw it.
4)He could probably summon ma and pa, but they are mostly supplementary fighters, though they would definitely help.
 

Turson

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In the fightning scenes, he show that he is decent at holding his own aginst other opponents and working well with others.
Its not like someone helped him to make shadow clone in a blink of an eye and catch that sword. Feat is a feat, and you cant deny that.
In the latter scene, he showed up unexpectedly to save sakura, and most likely used shunshin jutsu to speed up his movements.
Lol so what? Itachi, A or Itachi also also relying on Shunshin, Minato is relying on Sunshin and FTG.

-> Its very similar situation. Narutos Shunshin was fast and its all that matters.
He rarely has shown intelligence on a great scale and his battle tactics are crude at best with his constant spamming of shadow clones and rasengan.

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It doesnt matter id they are crude, they are effective. Naruto has proven to be very clever shinobi.

So Im gonna repeat myself, base Naruto isnt weaker than Asuma, hes surely Jounin level.
 
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Gooner4life

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The first part I agree with most of it. However his base skills are nothing but ordinary. Just look at how he matches up with other jounins in base.

While he was fighting pein he was not using his base skills only sage mode skills. I don't recall much of that fight all I know is that he had massive help and already much intelligence.
His ninjutsu is better than Guy's and Kurenai's, as far as I know, better taijutsu than Kurenai as far as I know and more chakra than all of them. Your forgetting that two jonin, genma and raido were dispatched by the sound four with ease. Naruto must be stronger than those two
 

fastrthnwind

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Its not like someone helped him to make shadow clone in a blink of an eye and catch that sword. Feat is a feat, and you cant deny that.

The effective use of the shadow clone allowed him to defend himself momentarily. However, he wasn't driving them back with his taijutsu skills. An average fighter will be able to hold their own aginst another fight with the same taijutsu ability. A person of greater skill in taijutsu would be able to press a very effective offensive on the same person.

Lol so what? Itachi, A or Itachi also also relying on Shunshin, Minato is relying on Sunshin and FTG.

-> Its very similar situation. Narutos Shunshin was fast and its all that matters.

The point is that none of them were expecting him to appear out of nowhere. After all the element of surprise is very useful in catching an opponent off guard.

It doesnt matter id they are crude, they are effective. Naruto has proven to be very clever shinobi.

They were effective because he has had prior information or he was fighting alongside another person of higher intelligence. He is clever, no doubt, especially when it comes down to coming up with on-the-spot ideas, but pitting him up against smarter shinobi in his base form would be be putting him at a serious disadvantage. When he battled against intelligent opponents in the past, he usually had to use the ninetails chakra to assist him which helped to even the odds by greatly boosting his speed, strength, and taijutsu ability.
 
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Turson

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The effective use of the shadow clone allowed him to defend himself momentarily. However, he wasn't driving them back with his taijutsu skills. An average fighter will be able to hold their own aginst another fight with the same taijutsu ability. A person of greater skill in taijutsu would be able to press a very effective offensive on the same person.
First of all, this wasnt battle, only very short skirmish, and Naruto was forced to help Sakura. So once again... its not like someone helped him to make shadow clone in a blink of an eye and catch that sword. Feat is a feat, and you cant deny that.
The point is that none of them were expecting him to appear out of nowhere. After all the element of surprise is very useful in catching an opponent off guard.
That is non factor here, since Sasukes kunai was alredy coming to Sakuras throath. So its not different from situation with Minato and Tobi.
They were effective because he has had prior information or he was fighting alongside another person of higher intelligence.
At that point his enemies had already intel on Naruto, so it was fair. Those strategies were successful becuase blondie simply outsmarted them.
He is clever, no doubt, especially when it comes down to coming up with on-the-spot ideas, but pitting him up against smarter shinobi in his base form would be be putting him at a serious disadvantage.
Nobody is gonna to but base Naruto against Itachi or Minato, but he surely would be able to defeat Shikamaru. Narutos battle intelligence is much, much better than avarage.
 

Sataniclion

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here are other proofs naruto base speed is pretty good aswell


he was pretty beast in that lol even made that one chick so whoa.. ha hes changed so much from the start of the show eh?
 
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