Base Killer Bee vs 3T Itachi

[Draegod]

On second thought I'll play a little one by one, post for post!

Bee uses 3 tentacles to create perfect tentacle bunshins. This 3 bees are now present, they then proceed to create an army on ink bunshins. What is the counter to this for itachi. (If clones are limited then my bad in advance)

 

[Haizaki]

Anticipation is not speed. :lol I don't know how many times I have to say that before you stop using it as evidence man. It being a good feat doesn't mean it's a good speed feat. So mentioning it doesn't help your argument as this is a discussion about speed and reactions. Nothing else.

And no, Minato didn't make a move. Arguing that is impossible as that is exactly what the Manga shows. Was Minato going to make a move? Yes. Did he get to? No, because B anticipated his attack and placed his Kunai there. Did B outspeed Minato? No, obviously not, because Minato didn't attack as soon as he teleported like he usually does. Intent to kill is irrelevant to that fact.

And correction: Reacting to teleportation is impossible period. The only thing people can react to is the incoming attack, which is nonexistent in B and Minato's case. So what exactly did he react to? "movements of a killer shinobi" has nothing to do with his speed so don't bother using it as evidence.





You mean forced KCM Naruto to block after Ay had already gotten in his face with Shunshin? Yeah. The punch on it's own isn't anywhere near as fast as Ay's Shunshin so reacting to it isn't a feat unless you are going to tell me that Suigetsu is a speedster, because he intercepted the same punch from the same person.


-Naruto's surprise is irrelevant to B's speed and relevant to the fact that he's surprised that B jumped into the fight.
-Tsunade is 100% irrelevant for the simple fact that she isn't even fast.

B having good reaction speed clearly isn't the point you are supposed to be proving here. Proving FT's point wrong is what you should be doing here.



Mental, not physical, and underlined is obviously false. First of all, why would you even begin to imply that Killer B can extend his tentacle and knock Ay out of the way before Ay himself can react even though Ay>>B in all forms of speed? :lol Second of all, the only reason Ay couldn't move to block or stop Minato is because Ay was already in motion and Minato was on top of his back.

Minato doesn't have the capability to outright blitz Ay with Hiraishin, not when Base Ay already matches him in reaction speed, and V2 Ay surpasses him in that and movement speed by a lot: V2 Ay>V1 Ay>>Base Ay=Minato in reaction speed. V2 Ay>Minato>V1 Ay in movement speed.



Nagato signaled both of them yet the only one who wasn't surprised and actually did something was Naruto. Him being faster than B doesn't change the fact that B stood their dumbfounded. Not to mention that was after Itachi had already made the first move, so they knew that the Edo duo was hostile.

Madara was surprised but actually did something in response. B didn't. Bad example.

That attack after teleportation was where I got what you meant, however I just felt it was weird how he referred to his non existent movements... Good points but since you stated proving that point is what's it, then I will focus on that instead.

The second time when Itachi appeared behind B and he said "on it", how's that proof that he could blitz (Or the opposition couldn't react properly) when B wasn't surprised ? He could have been on it already and said that as a response as he had no surprised face at all. So here we are assuming that B couldn't react to Itachi because he said "on it" which isn't true. Not to mention Nagato shouted to them "Above" as a warning and Naruto said "He knows". Just because Nagato warned them doesn't mean they couldn't react.

As for the part where Itachi jumps at them...B was only shown to be surprised at that scan. It wasn't shown that he failed to react because he wasn't faced with an attack in that case. Naruto reacted faster by proceeding to Itachi. B stayed mobile because his reactions were slower while Naruto went ahead to attack first. Lol Madara's example isn't a bad example, what are you even saying? He was shown to react, B had no time to react because Naruto already went on for him due to being faster than B. Hence my point only shows to you that being surprised doesn't warrant you not being able to react until you're faced with an attack. Naruto had to be warned here to react to this attack

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He was surprised but still ended up evading. If someone intercepted the attack for him, are we then going to conclude that he couldn't evade because he was surprised and after all, someone reacted before he could as he wasn't shown to react? B on the other hand had no time because Naruto already intercepted for him hence we can't conclude that he couldn't then. How can you make such a comparison and call it fair towards B? It's clearly not.

@FT Okay, I thought subliminals were being thrown first...Misunderstood completely my niguh.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Pretty sure the points he was conceding on were:

-Bee reacting to Minato
-Bee reacting to Nagato
-Bee tanking Chidori

Right, but that was pretty much his whole reasoning behind Bee being able to react to Itachi's shunshin. So if he conceded those points, I'm asking if he's conceded on Bee reacting to Itachi.

Mannnnnn fuq itachi and FT!!! XD Jp I wish I had the will to jump in the discussion, but I'm to busy and half way through typing I lose the effort of continuing.

Side note: what's up with itachi getting spanked by Hiashi bro? You've been ducking the fade for 2 months now! Lol

Lol, I've been like 50% done with my last rebuttal for months now, but haven't touched it since smh. It's also the reason why I don't do those huge ass extensive debates anymore.... Just don't have the will to sit and type forever about Naruto. Plus, the Hyugas skillset is just annoying as all hell to deal with.

On second thought I'll play a little one by one, post for post!

Bee uses 3 tentacles to create perfect tentacle bunshins. This 3 bees are now present, they then proceed to create an army on ink bunshins. What is the counter to this for itachi. (If clones are limited then my bad in advance)

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[KidGamer65]

That attack after teleportation was where I got what you meant, however I just felt it was weird how he referred to his non existent movements... Good points but since you stated proving that point is what's it, then I will focus on that instead.

The second time when Itachi appeared behind B and he said "on it", how's that proof that he could blitz (Or the opposition couldn't react properly) when B wasn't surprised ? He could have been on it already and said that as a response as he had no surprised face at all. So here we are assuming that B couldn't react to Itachi because he said "on it" which isn't true. Not to mention Nagato shouted to them "Above" as a warning and Naruto said "He knows". Just because Nagato warned them doesn't mean they couldn't react.

As for the part where Itachi jumps at them...B was only shown to be surprised at that scan. It wasn't shown that he failed to react because he wasn't faced with an attack in that case. Naruto reacted faster by proceeding to Itachi. B stayed mobile because his reactions were slower while Naruto went ahead to attack first. Lol Madara's example isn't a bad example, what are you even saying? He was shown to react, B had no time to react because Naruto already went on for him due to being faster than B. Hence my point only shows to you that being surprised doesn't warrant you not being able to react until you're faced with an attack. Naruto had to be warned here to react to this attack

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He was surprised but still ended up evading. If someone intercepted the attack for him, are we then going to conclude that he couldn't evade because he was surprised and after all, someone reacted before he could as he wasn't shown to react? B on the other hand had no time because Naruto already intercepted for him hence we can't conclude that he couldn't then. How can you make such a comparison and call it fair towards B? It's clearly not.

He credited B on his quick thinking and precise movement pretty much, but not speed. Basically B being able to get his Kunai into that position without Minato noticing until it was too late, or rather Killer B's first instinct being to do that, resulting in a stalemate/them killing each other.

That's FT's realm right there. Like he said, Sharingan would let Itachi know if he was going to make a move, thus he wouldn't have felt the need to tell B that he was behind him. Nagato's situation is completely different for that reason alone, and even then B didn't react. Only Naruto did. So you don't even have a point.

Lol come on now.

-Itachi jumps at them and instead of reacting, he stands there in surprise. That's not a reaction so I have no idea how you are saying that he didn't fail to react. If he was simply falling back and letting Naruto handle Itachi there would be no "?!!" in the speech bubble under him. You're grasping here. Naruto was in the same position as him and his first action was a reaction of some sort to Itachi's incoming attack. "He wasn't faced with an attack" doesn't make sense when he was jumping at them both, not at either one of them in particular. Take Naruto away and B's reaction would be exactly the same and literally nothing implies otherwise while my argument shows that this would be the case

-Not going to take your word for the bold, especially when I already explained why the Madara example makes no sense. Madara showed surprise yet he reacted. B showed surprise yet he didn't react.

 

[Haizaki]

He credited B on his quick thinking and precise movement pretty much, but not speed. Basically B being able to get his Kunai into that position without Minato noticing until it was too late, or rather Killer B's first instinct being to do that, resulting in a stalemate/them killing each other.

That's FT's realm right there. Like he said, Sharingan would let Itachi know if he was going to make a move, thus he wouldn't have felt the need to tell B that he was behind him. Nagato's situation is completely different for that reason alone, and even then B didn't react. Only Naruto did. So you don't even have a point.

Lol come on now.

-Itachi jumps at them and instead of reacting, he stands there in surprise. That's not a reaction so I have no idea how you are saying that he didn't fail to react. If he was simply falling back and letting Naruto handle Itachi there would be no "?!!" in the speech bubble under him. You're grasping here. Naruto was in the same position as him and his first action was a reaction of some sort to Itachi's incoming attack. "He wasn't faced with an attack" doesn't make sense when he was jumping at them both, not at either one of them in particular. Take Naruto away and B's reaction would be exactly the same and literally nothing implies otherwise while my argument shows that this would be the case

-Not going to take your word for the bold, especially when I already explained why the Madara example makes no sense. Madara showed surprise yet he reacted. B showed surprise yet he didn't react.

I know but think about it, Kakashi did have his Sharingan activated when he warned Naruto in that scan I showed? Hence he should have seen the same as you stated in the bold but somehow didn't. Naruto is a sensor(Sensing the Kages from miles away) so his blindspot doesn't matter in this case and we both know he can easily dodge someone teleporting to him from above with such speed. Especially if he reacts to the likes of Ay's full speed.

"Naruto had to be warned here to react to this attack

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He was surprised but still ended up evading. If someone intercepted the attack for him, are we then going to conclude that he couldn't evade because he was surprised and after all, someone reacted before he could as he wasn't shown to react?"

It's just like every Uchiha who attacks...If they can foresee one dodging/moving from their attack before the make it, then they shouldn't be surprised or even attempt it further but we've seen scenario where they end up being surprised or caught slipping back.

B was only surprised when Itachi was in Mid air. Itachi wasn't in control of his actions so when he said 'Behind you" the second time, if B wasn't fast enough, he won't have reacted like what's being claimed when Nagato warned him. However he reacted fine and this shows that whether surprised or not, he would have reacted even while warned by Nagato had Naruto not been there with him..Not sure if you get me? Like one said, he had no intel on Itachi's capabilities and so did Itachi..Though he just felt the need to help them in a worst case scenario. Like how Edos did in the war.

 

[KidGamer65]

I know but think about it, Kakashi did have his Sharingan activated when he warned Naruto in that scan I showed? Hence he should have seen the same as you stated in the bold but somehow didn't. Naruto is a sensor(Sensing the Kages from miles away) so his blindspot doesn't matter in this case and we both know he can easily dodge someone teleporting to him from above with such speed. Especially if he reacts to the likes of Ay's full speed.

"Naruto had to be warned here to react to this attack

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He was surprised but still ended up evading. If someone intercepted the attack for him, are we then going to conclude that he couldn't evade because he was surprised and after all, someone reacted before he could as he wasn't shown to react?"

It's just like every Uchiha who attacks...If they can foresee one dodging/moving from their attack before the make it, then they shouldn't be surprised or even attempt it further but we've seen scenario where they end up being surprised or caught slipping back.

B was only surprised when Itachi was in Mid air. Itachi wasn't in control of his actions so when he said 'Behind you" the second time, if B wasn't fast enough, he won't have reacted like what's being claimed when Nagato warned him. However he reacted fine and this shows that whether surprised or not, he would have reacted even while warned by Nagato had Naruto not been there with him..Not sure if you get me? Like one said, he had no intel on Itachi's capabilities and so did Itachi..Though he just felt the need to help them in a worst case scenario. Like how Edos did in the war.

Sharingan predicts muscle movements, not Kamui movements. Though Naruto was visibly tired and didn't notice a thing until Kakashi had called him out. So in that particular instance, yes, he could've been hit.

Underlined: He would've reacted poorly if Itachi hadn't warned him, just like how Naruto didn't notice that Obito was coming for him until Kakashi said something. Not exactly sure how anything you stated means that B would've reacted had Naruto not been there unless I'm missing/misinterpreting something here.

Bold: Reacted fine where? When Nagato warned him he didn't do anything. Naruto is the one who jumped up while at the same time B was surprised at what was going on.