Base Killer Bee vs 3T Itachi

[Forbidden Technique]

LMMFAO When was Serious Bee bested in CQC by Kisame???

In the manga called Naruto that you haven't read yet. It was written by Kishimoto.

 

[Draegod]

In the manga called Naruto that you haven't read yet. It was written by Kishimoto.

Lmao mannnnnn fuq Kishi!!! ????????????????????????????????????

 

[TheSages456]

itachi had to retreat from bees sword style and resort to ms usage, otherwise he wouldve been overwhelmed. bee would win.

 

[NarutoX28]

Well, Itachi's Shunshin literally pressured Bee and even Bee proved unable to react to Itachi's Ninjutsu thanks to his high hand seal speed, even from a relatively far range due to the fact that Bee was forced to use Samehada. Hell, Itachi on multiple occasions proved he was faster and more reflexive than Bee and he certainly could've pressured Bee more with his experience in Shurikeninjutsu and feints had he not been spoon-feeding Bee every detail he needed in order to fight Itachi.

 

[KCN]

Okay... So how do you conclude that Bee is better in CQC, while agreeing with the notion that Bee can't even hit Itachi. Never did I imply that Itachi's only option in this scenerio was to retreat, so no we are not in an agreement. It is a viable option, but I don't see it as his only resort. Uhh, no one else understands your physical capabilities better then yourself. So having control of his own body does in fact make a difference, actually.

So what exactly are we implying here? That Bee simply tanks every ninjutsu Itachi throws at him? I surely hope not. I said from the jump that Itachi's only task would be to overcome Bee's durability, but that won't be much of a task if he's going to simply attempt at tanking everything. Sasuke took on a raiton/suiton combo as well (from Darui), and wasn't immobilized. This is most likely due to the fact that they're raiton users. Ink clones can be taken out with shurikenjutsu.

Reacting to a weakened and not so mobile Nagato is not impressive, especially given what Itachi's shunshin did to Nagato and his shared vision. Horrible comparison. And you're saying that Bee reacted to Minato teleporting behind him, as if we know for a solid fact that Bee never saw or knew of the tag on his tenticle. That is a baseless claim, and his lack of proper reaction in other scenarios against slower attacks doesn't add up with that "feat". It it based on the belief that Bee verbally said that

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of Itachi being behind him. That isn't the VIZ translation however, which I already provided you with in my previous response. I'll ask around for the full scan, because I couldn't find it. The fact that Bee's response was "Got it!", and didn't react until after the fact, indicates to me that he had no idea. Again... Itachi wouldn't be assuming. With

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, he would know whether or not Bee was about to react or not. Itachi saw that he wasn't, which is why he felt the need to warn him. He didn't warn Bee and Naruto on the first shunshin, despite not knowing their capabilities, so that isn't a valid excuse. The first time Bee failed to track Itachi's shunshin, he was literally stairing right at him (

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). So I don't see why it is hard to believe he couldn't track him the second time.

Edit: Heres the VIZ scans.

Spoiler

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Bee can't hit Itachi because Itachi is forced to retreat. That's the only reason why he doesn't get hit. What else can he do in CQC besides retreat? If they were ever to engage in CQC again Bee can simply augment at least 2 of his blades with Raiton [

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] which would remove Itachi's ability to parry his attacks. He'd get skewered in this scenario, whether he's in control of his body or not. The sheer amount of blades Bee has at his disposal coupled with his ability to stream them has one end result, and it doesn't end well for Itachi.

I never suggested that was his only option, but that's a worst case scenario. I don't see linear jutsu like fireballs ever touching Bee in the first place; not with Samehada and his ability to Shunshin these distances [

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] in an instant. Then factor in his durability, which allowed him to tank a full blown Shinra Tensei from Nagato, a chakra blast from CM Juugo [

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], and a Chidori from Sasuke. That scan I just provided with Juugo was a couple pages after taking a full on Chidori from Sasuke. Yet, there aren't any pierce marks or any indication of pain for that matter. You say it's because of his compatibility with the nature, yet Ay with his shroud activated was pierced by this technique [

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] despite tanking a streamed blade to the neck a few moments prior (and he's the Sandaime's son). Factor all of this in, and I really don't see Itachi's ninjutsu playing that big of a role.

Reacting to a "weakened" Nagato is completely besides the point. Bee just got blown halfway across the forest by a Shinra Tensei which means his senses were sure to be off, yet he still managed to turn around and hit him with a Lariat. And to be honest, you'll have to prove Bee knew about the marking, because we have every indication in that fight to prove that he never. First of all, that was the first time Minato and Ay/Bee ever saw each other based on them introducing themselves and familiarising each other with one another's reputation. Then, we have Ay decoding the jutsu [

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] as if it was his first time not only seeing it, but understanding it. Let alone his ability to tag, which not even Obito reacted or saw coming despite being his former student. Bee's response to Itachi being behind him was not one of panic; saying "got it!" really doesn't mean anything. Refer to my scan with Nagato. If the moment Nagato appeared behind Bee and said "behind you", would that mean that mean Bee was going to be incapable of reacting on his own? Sharingan predicting his muscle movements, again, is besides the point. There is such thing as reacting but not completely evading. Like, as far as Itachi was concerned Bee could of been ready to move his body to block, whereas Itachi would rather avoid combat altogether. Itachi not warning them in the first instance is down to A) He cannot control his body so he didn't know when he was going to move and B) Naruto reacted to him near instanty, meaning there was no reason to warn him anyways. How did he not track him when he's looking directly at him? That's exactly what tracking is....

 

[Haizaki]

Bee can't hit Itachi because Itachi is forced to retreat. That's the only reason why he doesn't get hit. What else can he do in CQC besides retreat? If they were ever to engage in CQC again Bee can simply augment at least 2 of his blades with Raiton [

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] which would remove Itachi's ability to parry his attacks. He'd get skewered in this scenario, whether he's in control of his body or not. The sheer amount of blades Bee has at his disposal coupled with his ability to stream them has one end result, and it doesn't end well for Itachi.

I never suggested that was his only option, but that's a worst case scenario. I don't see linear jutsu like fireballs ever touching Bee in the first place; not with Samehada and his ability to Shunshin these distances [

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] in an instant. Then factor in his durability, which allowed him to tank a full blown Shinra Tensei from Nagato, a chakra blast from CM Juugo [

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], and a Chidori from Sasuke. That scan I just provided with Juugo was a couple pages after taking a full on Chidori from Sasuke. Yet, there aren't any pierce marks or any indication of pain for that matter. You say it's because of his compatibility with the nature, yet Ay with his shroud activated was pierced by this technique [

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] despite tanking a streamed blade to the neck a few moments prior (and he's the Sandaime's son). Factor all of this in, and I really don't see Itachi's ninjutsu playing that big of a role.

Reacting to a "weakened" Nagato is completely besides the point. Bee just got blown halfway across the forest by a Shinra Tensei which means his senses were sure to be off, yet he still managed to turn around and hit him with a Lariat. And to be honest, you'll have to prove Bee knew about the marking, because we have every indication in that fight to prove that he never. First of all, that was the first time Minato and Ay/Bee ever saw each other based on them introducing themselves and familiarising each other with one another's reputation. Then, we have Ay decoding the jutsu [

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] as if it was his first time not only seeing it, but understanding it. Let alone his ability to tag, which not even Obito reacted or saw coming despite being his former student. Bee's response to Itachi being behind him was not one of panic; saying "got it!" really doesn't mean anything. Refer to my scan with Nagato. If the moment Nagato appeared behind Bee and said "behind you", would that mean that mean Bee was going to be incapable of reacting on his own? Sharingan predicting his muscle movements, again, is besides the point. There is such thing as reacting but not completely evading. Like, as far as Itachi was concerned Bee could of been ready to move his body to block, whereas Itachi would rather avoid combat altogether. Itachi not warning them in the first instance is down to A) He cannot control his body so he didn't know when he was going to move and B) Naruto reacted to him near instanty, meaning there was no reason to warn him anyways. How did he not track him when he's looking directly at him? That's exactly what tracking is....

Nagato warned them the first time so Itachi didn't need to. That marking point is a good one anyways seeing how Minato praised his killer movements. Add this sh*t to your points because it's laughable how people really believe B can't properly react Itachi. Utilize the fact that Samehada can move in its own to intercept and absorb attacks for B and the fact that he has multiple clones due to having a ridiculous amount of Chakra. Smh there's so much but I think I'll just lay off now. I'll be disappointed if people really fall for this B can't react properly.

 

[KidGamer65]

The marking point is bad simply because it has nothing to do with reaction as there was nothing to react to. Minato teleported behind him and held his Kunai above him. No movement from him, so there's nothing to react to. Can't react to instant teleportation either. "Killer movements" doesn't indicate speed.

And KCN, he never ever tanked Chidori. Sasuke didn't even try to pierce him. He merely placed his hand on B's body to shock him. :lol I mean, B obviously isn't more durable than Ay with the Raiton shroud on. The Jugo thing is a point though. And hitting Nagato is a weak point since you have no idea how badly his senses were "thrown off" by Shinra Tensei if at all, and even if they were, how is that a feat when Nagato did nothing for him to react to?

 

[Haizaki]

The marking point is bad simply because it has nothing to do with reaction as there was nothing to react to. Minato teleported behind him and held his Kunai above him. No movement from him, so there's nothing to react to. Can't react to instant teleportation either. "Killer movements" doesn't indicate speed.

It's not a bad point...Why would Minato mention him having Killer movements of a Shinobi? There would absolutely no need for that because that's just extremely random and would definitely be triggered by an action B made. Minato won't need to say it if there wasn't a need for it.

B also anticipated his next move and reacted accordingly which for sure is a good feat. Good enough to suggest he can 100% react to Itachi properly. Plus the fact that he already intercepted Minato from slashing Ay which would require him being able to keep up in order to intervene physically in such speed movements and this was when he was really young. Already intercepted V1 Ay trying to punch Naruto showing his movement speed from a fair distance.

There's every indication that B can react to Itachi just fine with no problem...It becomes farfetched when something like "he can't react properly" is claimed.

 

[KidGamer65]

It's not a bad point...Why would Minato mention him having Killer movements of a Shinobi? There would absolutely no need for that because that's just extremely random and would definitely be triggered by an action B made. Minato won't need to say it if there wasn't a need for it.

B also anticipated his next move and reacted accordingly which for sure is a good feat. Good enough to suggest he can 100% react to Itachi properly. Plus the fact that he already intercepted Minato from slashing Ay which would require him being able to keep up in order to intervene physically in such speed movements and this was when he was really young. Already intercepted V1 Ay trying to punch Naruto showing his movement speed from a fair distance.

There's every indication that B can react to Itachi just fine with no problem...It becomes farfetched when something like "he can't react properly" is claimed.

Which is irrelevant to speed, so you don't have a point as I said before.

That's not a feat related to speed, once again. So you don't have a point. B putting his blade to Minato has nothing to do with speed and if you are going to claim it does then you are going to have to show what he reacted to or reacted faster than, and there is literally nothing there as Minato made no move besides teleporting, and B can't react to teleportation. Literally impossible.

-He never reacted to any of Ay's shunshin. So unless you think Ay's striking speed and regular movement (latter has zero feats and the former was intercepted by Suigetsu from over 5m away when Raikage was about to kill Sasuke) none of those times proves your point.

-His feat against Minato is irrelevant since he didn't even use his physical body. He used his Partial transformation. Then we have the fact that Minato had to pause to gather enough momentum to pierce through Ay's shroud, hence his weird stance right before he strikes. Also not a feat.

If there is evidence that B can properly react to Itachi's Shunshin, this clearly isn't it. I mean, why are we arguing these sub points when a scan of Itachi getting B's back has been shown? Then there's the time Itachi charged them at the beginning of the fight. Itachi was coming towards Naruto and B. Naruto reacted and jumped towards Itachi

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[Forbidden Technique]

Lol @ base Bee tanking chidori, when Kisamehada's spikes pierced Bee through his V1 cloak. It's just as KG said, he was aiming to shock and immobilize Bee. They had to take him back alive. I'll respond to the rest later.

@Evani... Relax over there with the chirping. The indirect shots are corny.

 

[KCN]

The marking point is bad simply because it has nothing to do with reaction as there was nothing to react to. Minato teleported behind him and held his Kunai above him. No movement from him, so there's nothing to react to. Can't react to instant teleportation either. "Killer movements" doesn't indicate speed.

And KCN, he never ever tanked Chidori. Sasuke didn't even try to pierce him. He merely placed his hand on B's body to shock him. :lol I mean, B obviously isn't more durable than Ay with the Raiton shroud on. The Jugo thing is a point though. And hitting Nagato is a weak point since you have no idea how badly his senses were "thrown off" by Shinra Tensei if at all, and even if they were, how is that a feat when Nagato did nothing for him to react to?

That's fair enough. I'll concede on those points.

How can your senses not be thrown off when you're flying halfway across a forest after taking a full blown Shinra Tensei? The guy was still in mid air when Nagato appeared behind him. And by react I mean notice his presence and counter accordingly.

 

[KidGamer65]

That's fair enough. I'll concede on those points.

How can your senses not be thrown off when you're flying halfway across a forest after taking a full blown Shinra Tensei? The guy was still in mid air when Nagato appeared behind him. And by react I mean notice his presence and counter accordingly.

The question is how would they be thrown off and how badly would they be thrown off? If there's nothing that can imply what you are saying then why would I have to prove you wrong? And if the bold is what you mean then discussing it is pointless since that has nothing to do with speed.

 

[KCN]

The question is how would they be thrown off and how badly would they be thrown off? If there's nothing that can imply what you are saying then why would I have to prove you wrong? And if the bold is what you mean then discussing it is pointless since that has nothing to do with speed.

Good points. I'll concede then. That goes for you too, FT.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Good points. I'll concede then. That goes for you too, FT.

What exactly are you conceding on?

 

[KCN]

What exactly are you conceding on?

The speed/reacting argument.

 

[Haizaki]

Which is irrelevant to speed, so you don't have a point as I said before.

....

That's not a feat related to speed, once again. So you don't have a point. B putting his blade to Minato has nothing to do with speed and if you are going to claim it does then you are going to have to show what he reacted to or reacted faster than, and there is literally nothing there as Minato made no move besides teleporting, and B can't react to teleportation. Literally impossible.

Reacting to teleportation is impossible if you don't expect it or know when it's coming but B anticipated Minato was going to teleport to him after Ay missed and reacted at the right time. B knew he was coming and reacted at the exact same time. That's clearly a good feat and hence earned him the praise which shouldn't be for nothing, Minato standing by his head for a while doesn't mean anything because he won't be making such comments if he knew he could have easily ended it at that point. There would be no need for a praise if he let him off easily at that point..May I ask you what that praise was for? It can't be at random especially when his movements in particular were praised. "Your movements are exactly like those of a Killer Shinobi" but for some reason no feat there that warrants such? Not sure how especially when he had the intent to kill Ay earlier.

-He never reacted to any of Ay's shunshin. So unless you think Ay's striking speed and regular movement (latter has zero feats and the former was intercepted by Suigetsu from over 5m away when Raikage was about to kill Sasuke) none of those times proves your point.

He reacted to Ay's physical punch that forced KCM Naruto to block on several occasions. B not being able to react to Itachi but being able to react to Ay

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leaving Ay and Naruto (who couldn't complete his Jutsu and was really surprised) while Tsuande couldn't move an inch and B came all the way from here (Bottom panel)

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is a good feat..Good enough to suggest that he has good reaction speed.

-His feat against Minato is irrelevant since he didn't even use his physical body. He used his Partial transformation. Then we have the fact that Minato had to pause to gather enough momentum to pierce through Ay's shroud, hence his weird stance right before he strikes. Also not a feat.

Doesn't B still need to control the tentacles once they become part of him? Hence it still falls down as his reactions. During that period of Minato pausing, the likes of Ay couldn't move an inch in his full speed state so of course it's a good feat.

If there is evidence that B can properly react to Itachi's Shunshin, this clearly isn't it. I mean, why are we arguing these sub points when a scan of Itachi getting B's back has been shown? Then there's the time Itachi charged them at the beginning of the fight. Itachi was coming towards Naruto and B. Naruto reacted and jumped towards Itachi

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Naruto has faster reactions than B and he's also a sensor.
Not to mention B being surprised at that point would be based on the fact that they didn't expect Itachi to attack and Nagato already signaled to them "above". Madara was surprised several times against Gai but that for sure doesn't mean he couldn't properly react.

@Evani... Relax over there with the chirping. The indirect shots are corny.

Well suggesting there's a comedy in every Itachi threads after one states his opinion is being indirectly rude at the opposition. But I respect you a lot so I'll just apologize.

 

[KidGamer65]

....



Reacting to teleportation is impossible if you don't expect it or know when it's coming but B anticipated Minato was going to teleport to him after Ay missed and reacted at the right time. B knew he was coming and reacted at the exact same time. That's clearly a good feat and hence earned him the praise which shouldn't be for nothing, Minato standing by his head for a while doesn't mean anything because he won't be making such comments if he knew he could have easily ended it at that point. There would be no need for a praise if he let him off easily at that point..May I ask you what that praise was for? It can't be at random especially when his movements in particular were praised. "Your movements are exactly like those of a Killer Shinobi" but for some reason no feat there that warrants such? Not sure how especially when he had the intent to kill Ay earlier.

Anticipation is not speed. :lol I don't know how many times I have to say that before you stop using it as evidence man. It being a good feat doesn't mean it's a good speed feat. So mentioning it doesn't help your argument as this is a discussion about speed and reactions. Nothing else.

And no, Minato didn't make a move. Arguing that is impossible as that is exactly what the Manga shows. Was Minato going to make a move? Yes. Did he get to? No, because B anticipated his attack and placed his Kunai there. Did B outspeed Minato? No, obviously not, because Minato didn't attack as soon as he teleported like he usually does. Intent to kill is irrelevant to that fact.

And correction: Reacting to teleportation is impossible period. The only thing people can react to is the incoming attack, which is nonexistent in B and Minato's case. So what exactly did he react to? "movements of a killer shinobi" has nothing to do with his speed so don't bother using it as evidence.

He reacted to Ay's physical punch that forced KCM Naruto to block on several occasions. B not being able to react to Itachi but being able to react to Ay

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leaving Ay and Naruto (who couldn't complete his Jutsu and was really surprised) while Tsuande couldn't move an inch and B came all the way from here (Bottom panel)

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is a good feat..Good enough to suggest that he has good reaction speed.

You mean forced KCM Naruto to block after Ay had already gotten in his face with Shunshin? Yeah. The punch on it's own isn't anywhere near as fast as Ay's Shunshin so reacting to it isn't a feat unless you are going to tell me that Suigetsu is a speedster, because he intercepted the same punch from the same person.


-Naruto's surprise is irrelevant to B's speed and relevant to the fact that he's surprised that B jumped into the fight.
-Tsunade is 100% irrelevant for the simple fact that she isn't even fast.

B having good reaction speed clearly isn't the point you are supposed to be proving here. Proving FT's point wrong is what you should be doing here.

Doesn't B still need to control the tentacles once they become part of him? Hence it still falls down as his reactions. During that period of Minato pausing, the likes of Ay couldn't move an inch in his full speed state so of course it's a good feat.

Mental, not physical, and underlined is obviously false. First of all, why would you even begin to imply that Killer B can extend his tentacle and knock Ay out of the way before Ay himself can react even though Ay>>B in all forms of speed? :lol Second of all, the only reason Ay couldn't move to block or stop Minato is because Ay was already in motion and Minato was on top of his back.

Minato doesn't have the capability to outright blitz Ay with Hiraishin, not when Base Ay already matches him in reaction speed, and V2 Ay surpasses him in that and movement speed by a lot: V2 Ay>V1 Ay>>Base Ay=Minato in reaction speed. V2 Ay>Minato>V1 Ay in movement speed.

Naruto has faster reactions than B and he's also a sensor.
Not to mention B being surprised at that point would be based on the fact that they didn't expect Itachi to attack and Nagato already signaled to them "above". Madara was surprised several times against Gai but that for sure doesn't mean he couldn't properly react.

Nagato signaled both of them yet the only one who wasn't surprised and actually did something was Naruto. Him being faster than B doesn't change the fact that B stood their dumbfounded. Not to mention that was after Itachi had already made the first move, so they knew that the Edo duo was hostile.

Madara was surprised but actually did something in response. B didn't. Bad example.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

The speed/reacting argument.

So before I rebuttal your last post, you agree that Bee can't track, and thus, isn't reacting to Itachi's shunshin? I didn't read your entire debate with KG, so not entirely sure what exactly was cleared up.

Well suggesting there's a comedy in every Itachi threads after one states his opinion is being indirectly rude at the opposition. But I respect you a lot so I'll just apologize.

Lol, no need to apologies. I'm just saying relax. You've been taken petty shots at me throughout this entire thread. And that was a general statement that I made, because I feel that there has been serious Itachi underration and misconceptions going around.

 

[Beans2]

So before I rebuttal your last post, you agree that Bee can't track, and thus, isn't reacting to Itachi's shunshin? I didn't read your entire debate with KG, so not entirely sure what exactly was cleared up.

Pretty sure the points he was conceding on were:

-Bee reacting to Minato
-Bee reacting to Nagato
-Bee tanking Chidori

 

[Draegod]

Mannnnnn fuq itachi and FT!!! XD Jp I wish I had the will to jump in the discussion, but I'm to busy and half way through typing I lose the effort of continuing.

Side note: what's up with itachi getting spanked by Hiashi bro? You've been ducking the fade for 2 months now! Lol