Bakas need to accept whats in the manga

[Turson]

And its been stated in the manga?? Cause that is up for debates anyday. And yea, Naruto needed Bm to get on Killer B's Level I think that was already shown.

It wasnt stated, but it was proved by it.

Naruto is Perfect Jinchuuriki, he just cant use his full transformation for long at this point, but it will improve. Besides, look at the last chapter - Bee in his Bijuu form was already owned, when Naruto wasnt even forced to use his own and he was fine, even Madara called him a "real Jinchuuriki".

 

[Naruto king of Shinobi]

I agree with a lot of the OP, but people aren't interpreting the manga correctly when they say 1st hokage > 3rd hokage. It was said hiruzen was the strongest kage during his reign, and the strongest hokage konoha has ever produced, and the god of shinobi. The only reason madara praised the 1st hokage so much was because he was very powerful and his rival that he couldn't beat. For all we know Hiruzen could have been a child when the 1st hokage and madara faught, in other words, there's no proof that madara ever witnessed hiruzen in his prime. So ofcourse he isn't going to say things like "only the 1st and 3rd hokages could stop me".

 

[Lordlloyd7]

When he said ''only Hashi could stop me'' he was actually referring in the past. During Madara's lifetime, only Hashi could stand a chance against him and pull out a good fight. He didn't say ''only Hashi can stop me'', learn the difference.

Between, are you really saying that Hashi > Rinnegan, EMS, Mokuton (senju DNA), Edo ? If that was the case it would make the Rinnegan (a extremely rare dojutsu that only the SO6P had) seem like a useless and week powerup. Oro wasn't properly controlling the edo, if that was the case, why didn't hashi use his wood dragon or create a huge poisoned forest like Madara did? + Madara's mokuton may be a bit weakier. Yeah that's right, you ain't got nothing to say.
Anyway I'm definetely not going to waste my time debating with Hashifanboy.

Btw, hashi died against fodder

Thats actually backwards sir. He said can not could.

 

[KingHashirama]

It wasnt stated, but it was proved by it.

Sorry dude, Naruto doesn't fit the word "perfect".. B is perfect yes. Naruto cannot sustain his BM. Therefore he is not perfect yet. And He is a real jinchuriki..hes not a fake one. B is injured due to Naruto..

It's not impossible for Hashirama to defeat Madara, obviously, but people who use the latter's quote as 'prime' evidence (for the 1st Hokage being 'stronger') are foolish because;

> 'Could' can indicate possibility (not that Hashirama definitely would defeat Madara [just that he has a chance against him], which some people believe Madara implied, which he did not).
> It could mean past tense (which I disagree with).

That's why I used the Kakashi example - he could defeat Madara if he managed to Kamui his head, although it's unlikely to happen. The fact that you could not see through this example and instead chose to take what I said out of context shows that you actually don't understand what Madara said.

1. Madara has still to show he has surpassed Hashirama,
2. We haven't seen Hashirama's full power.. but infact PART of it.

With those 2 things in mind, Hashirama is technically stronger, until its proven.


Mate, your over thinking... "could" can also mean definitely.

Example: You are better then me at basketball, and then i go play a weaker person and I say,

" You Noddy only could beat me"

The problem, is structure of their rivalry, which people leave out.
Madara had been pursuing Hashirama to get as strong as him, but failed.
So, the upgrades need to prove that he is stronger then Hashirama.

 

[shelke]

You made a thread for this? I don't believe you. lol Whatever floats your boat. You do realize that Kishimoto has said that Madara is the strongest character now and has no weakness?

 

[LegendaryAce]

Lets all be honest hiruzen is crap and both madara and hashirama can beat him easy - but Edo madara> hashirama in all honesty but since I am a hashirama fan yes I believe hashirama has a chance to beat him ...

 

[Strict]

What's with people these days. Hashirama and Madara were on pair in their lifetime, Madara himself stated that he fought him in a real fight to death back then, this was a fight of equals. However now Madara is carrying both Hashiramas and his own power, this is Kabutos trump card. How a living EMS user who was supposed to be Hashiramas equal is still turning out to be weaker than him after obtaining a Doujutsu which is supposed to be even stronger than the EMS and the Mokuton, such as absolute immortality and limitless chakra on top? Does it mean, that Rinnegan + Mokuton + undying body + limitless chakra doesn't make a difference since the perfect Susanoo was supposed to be Madaras strongest technique? The limitless Chakra alone which isn't letting Madara to get tired even while the perfect Susanoos usage is already an increase.

 

[Invsblphntm]

Kishimoto stated Madara has no weaknesses.

Your thread is invalid.

 

[KingHashirama]

Kishimoto stated Madara has no weaknesses.

Your thread is invalid.

Manga: Edo can only be sealed.

Seals : Weakness

Lets all be honest hiruzen is crap and both madara and hashirama can beat him easy - but Edo madara> hashirama in all honesty but since I am a hashirama fan yes I believe hashirama has a chance to beat him ...

"God of shinobi" in his prime is crap?? I doubt it. And if Edo Madara > Hashirama... then Hashirama has no chance at beating him.

What's with people these days. Hashirama and Madara were on pair in their lifetime, Madara himself stated that he fought him in a real fight to death back then, this was a fight of equals. However now Madara is carrying both Hashiramas and his own power, this is Kabutos trump card. How a living EMS user who was supposed to be Hashiramas equal is still turning out to be weaker than him after obtaining a Doujutsu which is supposed to be even stronger than the EMS and the Mokuton, such as absolute immortality and limitless chakra on top? Does it mean, that Rinnegan + Mokuton + undying body + limitless chakra doesn't make a difference since the perfect Susanoo was supposed to be Madaras strongest technique? The limitless Chakra alone which isn't letting Madara to get tired even while the perfect Susanoos usage is already an increase.

Obito: Hashirama, the strongest shinobi of his time, every clan acknowledged superiority.

Fact: Madara needed the Kyuubi to even have a chance at Hashirama

Madara: Only Hashirama could stop me

Fact: Hashirama in the past was superior

Reason: Madara has yet to prove how he, is stronger then Hashirama

Your logics: SO6P < Edo Madara.

 

[Harry Balzac]

First you would need to put character lines in proper context.

 

[KingHashirama]

First you would need to put character lines in proper context.

Sorry mate, your in the wrong website. I could help you find the english competition website if you want me to?

 

[cLang cLang]

Sasuke could fudge up the sage...

 

[Harry Balzac]

Was my use of the English language too complex for you? Want me to make it simpler? I could if you want me too

 

[shelke]

Obito: Hashirama, the strongest shinobi of his time, every clan acknowledged superiority.

Fact: Madara needed the Kyuubi to even have a chance at Hashirama

Madara: Only Hashirama could stop me

Fact: Hashirama in the past was superior

Reason: Madara has yet to prove how he, is stronger then Hashirama

Your logics: SO6P < Edo Madara.

You have been proven wrong on all these points in the other thread. What's even the point of making this one?

 

[Strict]

Obito: Hashirama, the strongest shinobi of his time, every clan acknowledged superiority.

Time changed, a lot of new Shinobis were born and obtained new powers in new generations. Neither the current Madara, nor Tobi, Nagato, Naruto or someone else lived back than.

Fact: Madara needed the Kyuubi to even have a chance at Hashirama

He used Kyuubi to attack the village but Hashirama prevented it by taking over the control. Who says that Kyuubi wasn't used against Madara?

: Only Hashirama could stop me

Madara was supposed to be the strongest human in the world, able to take control over every clan the Uchiha encountered. And at that time Hashirama was the only person able to stop him, the talk is about their lifetime in the past.

Fact: Hashirama in the past was superior

We are not in the past now, we are in the present time where Hashirama isn't alive.

Reason: Madara has yet to prove how he, is stronger then Hashirama

Madara doesn't have to prove anything, they were equals back than and now Madara carries Hashiramas power in him, too. In addition to the Rinnegan and more. Yet Hashirama has to prove to be able to seal Madara while all tries of the Kage to seal him away were prevented by him.

Your logics: SO6P < Edo Madara.

Kishimotos logic on a interview is that the current Madara hasn't any weakness while even the strongest others have.

 

[LegendaryAce]

To hell with this it won't end

Hashirama > madara
Edo madara > hashirama
Hyped hashirama = Edo madara ( no one knows if true)
Hashirama > hiruzen
Madara > hiruzen

Prime hiruzen = madara or hashirama by hype

That's all there is

 

[startup97]

Hiruzen Sarutobi (prime) heres why

Let me just say this:

Hiruzen was a master of over 1000 Genjutsu's, he Also has a 5 in Genjutsu

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He was known as "the professor" for Knowing and being able to use all known (Non Kg) Jutsu's in the leaf at one Point in time.
He has shown Fire and earth, I would say it's safe to assume he can also use Water, Possibly Wind aswell.
Also having a 5 in Ninjutsu

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Even in his old age he was said to be the strongest of the 5 current kages.
Kabuto has been a Spy from a Very young age, He has spied in every village since a child , and knows things others don't know.

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Hiruzen also has Mostly all 5's in his Databook Stats. Only lacking Speed/Strength/Stamina because of his Old age.

Proof os his Weakening in his old age. hiruzen was suprised how heavy Enma felt in his pole form

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Proof of his stamina weakening. One of the Anbu stats his chara has declined.

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Enma asked what was wrong with him and stated that he wasn't fighting like he normaly does.
Yet he was still able to hold his ground against two Kages.

Even in his old age, it was said he was Equal to Oro, when the manga had stated many times he is far weaker than his prime.

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Even Though Hiruzen was "Slacking" and Lacking his normal fighting prowess, He still was able to Compete with both Hashirama's and Tobirama's Taijutsu while planting Tags of them.
Even oro didn't notice.

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Enma has already Proved to be able to Counter Hashirama's wood style.

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He has already Countered bringer of darkness.

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Note: Look at the Page, and you see "Sniff", So hirzens sense of Smell must be quite good to be able to find Hashirama and Tobirama while he is blind.

Thats all i can be bothered to do at this point in timeU_U.

Also when Iruka said he is the strongest Hokage to the Academy students. Hiruzen replied with "Hey, Iruka!! Don't use past tense!!" Hiruzen IMPLIED he that he was the strongest in his prime. Plus Hiruzen was taught by both the 1st and 2nd. He'd probably know about their techniques and how to counter them. Heres when Sarutobi implied that before he was the strongest.

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[KingHashirama]

Time changed, a lot of new Shinobis were born and obtained new powers in new generations. Neither the current Madara, nor Tobi, Nagato, Naruto or someone else lived back than.

And yet Madara says only Hashirama can stop him =]. And Madara has been alive to see all the 5 Hokages.

He used Kyuubi to attack the village but Hashirama prevented it by taking over the control. Who says that Kyuubi wasn't used against Madara?

Thats a assumption on your part, so I have no care for it, It says Hashirama defeated the kyuubi and Madara. Never said he used it. This usually a desperate attempt to try to make Hashirama weak.

was supposed to be the strongest human in the world, able to take control over every clan the Uchiha encountered. And at that time Hashirama was the only person able to stop him, the talk is about their lifetime in the past.

Sorry, that is false, Madara was a young pup, trying to climb, While Hashirama was the top dog. Hashirama was the most feared man. Never said anything about Madara being like that. Hashirama's feat make Madara look like a Adult and a Kid.

We are not in the past now, we are in the present time where Hashirama isn't alive.

Doesn't mean he can't be revived. =] ( like Madara)

doesn't have to prove anything, they were equals back than and now Madara carries Hashiramas power in him, too. In addition to the Rinnegan and more. Yet Hashirama has to prove to be able to seal Madara while all tries of the Kage to seal him away were prevented by him.

Sorry, saying they were Equals i bullshit, He was the strongest of his time, and Madara was nothing to him. Already proven deal with it. He needed Hashi's Dna to even get at his level.. And then he needed the kyuubi to even fight him.
No Madara has to prove that he surpassed Hashirama.. thats how it works, not the other way around.

Madara already called the Kages " a joke" infront of Hashirama =]. Wood is not the only power Hashirama has.... "Scroll of Seals".. the one with forbidden jutsus..... forgetting that?

Kishimotos logic on a interview is that the current Madara hasn't any weakness while even the strongest others have.

Sorry, nor do i trust the interview, nor do i count any word kishi "supposedly" stated, ever since the dumb interview where he said, Sarutobi and Minato were the strongest Shinobis dead. And then out of nowhere Hashirama was some god like person.. wtf and then the SO6P. Sorry buddy. Kishimoto needs to prove that in the Manga. And Madara can only be beated by the main characters if he has a weakness... which is sealing..

 

[shelke]

I suggest everyone to check out this thread for more information on the countered points. Thank you.

 

[shelke]

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