[VS] Ay vs War arc Gaara

[Bogard]

Gaara's sand was too slow for Edo Madara and Raikage is faster than him
Not to mention even if it were to catch by some sheer luck, it won't bypass his raiton defense and the Raikage would get away/get rid from it like Sandai Raikage did in cannon
Besides which raiton already showed striking strength to bypass him automatic defense(Sasuke in the chunin exam) that i see no reason why it changed with time and Raikage's lightning techniques are more power than chunin exam Sasuke.

Ay wins this

 

[DrProof]

Lmaooo y'all do not want me to tear this thread up. I will have y'all Ay fans thinking y'all were on drugs.

 

[Oblivionx]

They are more or less equals to me... Gaara is smarter so i'd go with him but Ay has his chances...

 

[Styles]

Gaara loses.

 

[neosmith500]

Aye sprays him with the AyeK47 horizontal blitz to the forehead then finishes with a musket bomb machete stab to the face , which makes kimimaro smirk from the pureworld. Gg

 

[Curse Mark]

He only had acceleration caused by gravity, so the actual momentum of that hit wasn't nearly as high as it could've been.

How could it have been any higher?

Gaara's sand was too slow for Edo Madara and Raikage is faster than him
Not to mention even if it were to catch by some sheer luck, it won't bypass his raiton defense and the Raikage would get away/get rid from it like Sandai Raikage did in cannon
Besides which raiton already showed striking strength to bypass him automatic defense(Sasuke in the chunin exam) that i see no reason why it changed with time and Raikage's lightning techniques are more power than chunin exam Sasuke.

Ay wins this

Lol he doesn't have the slightest chance at getting through Gaara's defense.

Anyother kid using CE gaara feats like they're somehow relevant to this discussion ctfu.

 

[Claymantan]

He only had acceleration caused by gravity, so the actual momentum of that hit wasn't nearly as high as it could've been.

It was also a minimal amount of sand, and the bigger deal is how fast Gaara managed to get his sand there to block it. Plus, the lightning armor didn't help.

Look, there was barely any space between Ay and the Kagutsuchi-spikes:

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Again, the speed of Gaara's sand by the time War Arc comes about is insane.

He can build even greater defenses in short times:

Spoiler

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I'm not sure what you're talking about, but Madara only gets through his defense by overwhelming him with the Susanoo clones:

Spoiler

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I'm not denying the feat of Edo Madara getting past his defense, I just don't remember the example you might be referring to.

Ay might be one of the fastest shinobi ever, but that's more important when it comes to dodging him than blocking him. In order to get through Gaara's defense, he needs to have better striking speed (not getting caught in the sand after an attack, and being able to strike from a new angle), not just movement speed. Gaara's sand is fast enough to block any one move, and based his War Arc feats, he can block any single hit from Ay.

Plus, his speed won't help him against Gaara if he's running on the very surface that Gaara uses for attacks. If you concede that Ay's aerial attacks have a limited momentum, then aerial attacks won't help him at all in this fight.

 

[Curse Mark]

It was also a minimal amount of sand, and the bigger deal is how fast Gaara managed to get his sand there to block it. Plus, the lightning armor didn't help.

Look, there was barely any space between Ay and the Kagutsuchi-spikes:

Spoiler

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Again, the speed of Gaara's sand by the time War Arc comes about is insane.

He can build even greater defenses in short times:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but Madara only gets through his defense by overwhelming him with the Susanoo clones:

Spoiler

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I'm not denying the feat of Edo Madara getting past his defense, I just don't remember the example you might be referring to.

Ay might be one of the fastest shinobi ever, but that's more important when it comes to dodging him than blocking him. In order to get through Gaara's defense, he needs to have better striking speed (not getting caught in the sand after an attack, and being able to strike from a new angle), not just movement speed. Gaara's sand is fast enough to block any one move, and based his War Arc feats, he can block any single hit from Ay.

Plus, his speed won't help him against Gaara if he's running on the very surface that Gaara uses for attacks. If you concede that Ay's aerial attacks have a limited momentum, then aerial attacks won't help him at all in this fight.

My man going in on this thread. Shit got rekt.

 

[enditallsin]

Im probably gonna go with ay on this one.

 

[Bogard]

How could it have been any higher?




Lol he doesn't have the slightest chance at getting through Gaara's defense.

Anyother kid using CE gaara feats like they're somehow relevant to this discussion ctfu.

Why should an automatic defense based on a curse placed by his mother change with time? It doesn't even make sense. It's like saying that a calculator can do more than what it was created for despite having a constant programm installed inside it that will never change with time

Not that it matters. Ay doesn't need that to win

 

[Curse Mark]

Why should an automatic defense based on a curse placed by his mother change with time? It doesn't even make sense. It's like saying that a calculator can do more than what it was created for despite having a constant programm installed inside it that will never change with time

Not that it matters. Ay doesn't need that to win

??? When did I ever mention automatic defense?
Unless you're referring to when you mentioned CE Gaara like it's somehow relevant to war arc gaara.

Automatic defense isn't even a factor here when it's been shown gaara can now manipulate his sand tremendously faster than his Chuunin Exam Auto Defense.

 

[Bogard]

??? When did I ever mention automatic defense?
Unless you're referring to when you mentioned CE Gaara like it's somehow relevant to war arc gaara.

Automatic defense isn't even a factor here when it's been shown gaara can now manipulate his sand tremendously faster than his Chuunin Exam Auto Defense.

He only manipulates it when he wants to attack. The sand defend Gaara automatically and unwillingly to him

 

[Claymantan]

He only manipulates it when he wants to attack. The sand defend Gaara automatically and unwillingly to him

There are scans in this very thread showing him deliberately manipulating the sand to defend just as quickly.

He can do whatever he wants with the sand, he just doesn't put chakra into manipulating it more than he needs to. Gaara's not going to be dumb enough to just stand there and play a staring contest with Ay.

 

[Curse Mark]

He only manipulates it when he wants to attack. The sand defend Gaara automatically and unwillingly to him

Bruh, no. He can manipulate his sand in any way he wants to.

He can make a defensive moves and has several time throughout the manga.

There are scans in this very thread showing him deliberately manipulating the sand to defend just as quickly.

He can do whatever he wants with the sand, he just doesn't put chakra into manipulating it more than he needs to. Gaara's not going to be dumb enough to just stand there and play a staring contest with Ay.

Exactly lol you already posted a few scans.

 

[NarutoX28]

It was also a minimal amount of sand, and the bigger deal is how fast Gaara managed to get his sand there to block it. Plus, the lightning armor didn't help.

Look, there was barely any space between Ay and the Kagutsuchi-spikes:

Spoiler

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Again, the speed of Gaara's sand by the time War Arc comes about is insane.

This is all irrelevant. Gaara still intercepted someone whose acceleration and speed was only caused due to gravity which is extremely slow in the Narutoverse, so him managing to intercept Raikage and Sasuke when the distance between them was a few inches doesn't prove that it is fast.

I can easily give the same hype to Suigetsu or Haku and claim that they're all extremely fast, but that's still irrelevant compared to a speedster such as Raikage.

Gaara's Gourd Sand is not fast as Joki Boy can outspeed Gaara's Gourd Sand and Fodder could actually react to Joki Boy's speed.

 

[LoZelda101]

Depends on the location

 

[Curse Mark]

This is all irrelevant. Gaara still intercepted someone whose acceleration and speed was only caused due to gravity which is extremely slow in the Narutoverse, so him managing to intercept Raikage and Sasuke when the distance between them was a few inches doesn't prove that it is fast.

I can easily give the same hype to Suigetsu or Haku and claim that they're all extremely fast, but that's still irrelevant compared to a speedster such as Raikage.

Gaara's Gourd Sand is not fast as Joki Boy can outspeed Gaara's Gourd Sand and Fodder could actually react to Joki Boy's speed.

It's not irrelevant that Raikage was like a hair away from touching the flames and gaara still moved his sand there AND intercepted him before he could actually hit.

 

[NarutoX28]

It's not irrelevant that Raikage was like a hair away from touching the flames and gaara still moved his sand there AND intercepted him before he could actually hit.

All that tells me is that his Gourd Sand moves faster than what?

20-30 m/s? Yeah, we know everyone can move faster than that. Give me something more impressive than that. Even P1 Haku intercepting Kakashi's Raikiri is more impressive than that.

 

[Claymantan]

This is all irrelevant. Gaara still intercepted someone whose acceleration and speed was only caused due to gravity which is extremely slow in the Narutoverse, so him managing to intercept Raikage and Sasuke when the distance between them was a few inches doesn't prove that it is fast.

I can easily give the same hype to Suigetsu or Haku and claim that they're all extremely fast, but that's still irrelevant compared to a speedster such as Raikage.

Gaara's Gourd Sand is not fast as Joki Boy can outspeed Gaara's Gourd Sand and Fodder could actually react to Joki Boy's speed.

I didn't hype, I don't know why you think creating a full sand shield within a few inches in the span of less than a second isn't a feat showing extreme speed.

I'll do some lazy maths (skip to bold if you don't wanna follow):

Assume Ay started from 5m above Sasuke at 0 meters per second, and started falling from there
His velocity at the point of interception was probably around 10 meters per second (this is not as slow as it seems, even if characters can move faster)
At the point that Gaara chose to intercept and there was suddenly sand in between them, there were a few inches between Ay and Sasuke, let's say 3 inches which is about 0.08 meters.
That means, at 10 meters per second, it would have taken Ay about 1 hundredth of a second to hit Sasuke from the point that Gaara's sand suddenly materialized. Logically speaking, the sand could not have been there before this point (except at minimal levels). Most of the sand got there after this point of 0.08 meters, or 1 hundredth of a second from Sasuke being mush.

In one hundredth of a second, Gaara's sand traveled at least 10 m (very generous) from where he was relative to Ay and Sasuke.

This puts Gaara's sand at the capability to move at a thousand meters per second, which is ridiculous. Realism is downplayed in Naruto. But this whole physics thing was just to show you that, yeah, Gaara being able to intercept this means his sand must be VERY fast at this point in the manga.

Even if you want to act like Gaara's sand is "slow" by Naruto standards or even by Ay's standards: Ay might be able to move ten times as fast, but in this battle, he'd be doing it starting from ten times the distance (literally, see OP), so it doesn't even matter. And you clearly don't know your canon: the location has plenty of sand for Gaara to use (Gaara can turn rock or dirt into sand as shown in the Kimimaro fight), which means his range is large enough that it doesn't matter if Ay is fast.

THIS WAS NOT FANWANK. I AM NOT ACTUALLY SAYING THAT GAARA CAN LITERALLY MOVE HIS SAND AT A THOUSAND METERS PER SECOND. I'M JUST DEMONSTRATING THAT THE FEAT MUST NECESSARILY BE A FEAT OF EXTREME SPEED FOR GAARA'S SAND.

And I mean, the other feats he does with it must equally be demonstrations of his sand moving at extreme speed.

Again, Ay's feats of speed are all movement based, not necessarily striking-speed based. He doesn't have freaking machinegun fists, he's not going ORAORAORAORA. The two start at range. The area has lots of sand. Gaara has every advantage ever. Gaara blocks whatever Raikage decides to do, and then counters for massive damage with Sand Burial or some nonsense.

EDIT: You might say that the sand was closer to the spot of interception before the actual impact, and that they just didn't notice. Let's say the sand was 10 times as closer (so, moving from 1 m away but no-one noticed it). That's still 100 m/s, which is actually fast by Naruto standards. And 10 times closer is a gift.

 

[NarutoX28]

Exactly. There's no way of knowing when Gaara's Sand traveled to save Raikage.

For someone as fast as Raikage, 100m/s is absolutely nothing.