Ashwatthama

[Skull Knight]

There was a warrior named Ashwatthama who was born with a gem on his forehead which gives him power over all living beings lower than humans; it protected him from hunger, thirst and fatigue.This gem is supposed to protect him from attacks by ghosts, demons, poisonous insects, snakes, animals etc.

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Spoiler

He fought on the Kaurava side against the Pandavas. After Duryodhan(king of Kauravs) was defeated by Bhim(Pandavs), He promised to kill all Pandavs and there kids. He attacked Pandavs camp at night and killed all there children. Pandavs and Lord Krishna was not there. When they saw what Aswatthama did, they immediately went after him.
On seeing the approaching angered Pandavas, Ashwatthama as a last resort used Bramhastra(its like nuclear missile). Arjun(Pandav) also used his bramhastra. when 2 Bramhastra clashed the world slowly started destroying. Vyasa used his power to stop those bramhastra clashing & asked both parties to stop there weapons. Arjun knew how to stop his but Ashwathama had no knowledge how to stop his.

Lord Krishna saw this and cursed Aswatthama that he will roam in forest for 3000years with blood and puss oozing out of his injuries and cry for death. Since he had no fear of death during war, death would not meet him. He will have neither any hospitality nor any accommodation; He will be in total isolation without any contact of physical communication from mankind and society; The wound caused by the removal of this gem on his forehead will not heal and his body will suffer from a host of incurable diseases forming sores and ulcers that would never heal for 3000 years.
Some people thinks he is still alive and roaming in forest.

 

[Avani]

Read Mahabharat.
There was a warrior named Ashwatthama who was born with a gem on his forehead which gives him power over all living beings lower than humans; it protected him from hunger, thirst and fatigue.This gem is supposed to protect him from attacks by ghosts, demons, poisonous insects, snakes, animals etc.

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[Skull Knight]

You left the crucial moral out. Ashawathama had redirected his brahmastra to Uttara and her unborn son whom Krishna saved ultimately - in return of all good karma (punya he did in his life time). Using a destructive weapon which one cannot even handle properly and cannot stop when realizing the error of using it and try to put damage anyway ( Uttara was not even fighting) when the other side has withdrawn. That lead to the curse to live eternally and walk eternally.

I don't think Aswatthama did anything wrong there.
He was fighting against Pandavs.
His father was killed by Pandavs by cheating.
He never liked them because his father always liked Arjun and taught him everything(even how to stop bramhastra).
He promised Duryodhan that he will end Pandavs family.
And in war lots of innocents dies so I don't think he did anything wrong. He was keeping his promise -_-

 

[Avani]

I don't think Aswatthama did anything wrong there.
He was fighting against Pandavs.
His father was killed by Pandavs by cheating.
He never liked them because his father always liked Arjun and taught him everything(even how to stop bramhastra).
He promised Duryodhan that he will end Pandavs family.
And in war lots of innocents dies so I don't think he did anything wrong. He was keeping his promise -_-

Ashwaththama chose to use the deadliest weapon known on an unborn child and you think it was righteous?

He had already killed Dhrishtdumn( it was him who had killed Drona) along with all 5 sons of Daupadi while they were sleeping. And he still wanted more blood.

Spoiler

Ashwathama's personal disliking doesn't entitle him to kill people. His jealously doesn't make his actions just. His father was paid to teach the Pandvas. He was their teacher - it was his job. And he did all kind of back stabbing to get that job. Remember Kripacharya- his brother in law who was the previous teacher of Kurus? He let Drona and his family stay at his place when Drona was searching for better prospects. And he returned the favour by stealing Krip's job in a sneaky way. The least he could do to train the princes properly. Not to forget his treatment to Eklavya and his role in death of Abhimanyu. He was no saint.

Send me a VM?PM for the rest if you wish to continue. lol It's off topic here.

 

[Anduril]

Re: Onepiece zunisha's curse and jesus connection( wandering jew)

I don't think Aswatthama did anything wrong there.
He was fighting against Pandavs.
His father was killed by Pandavs by cheating.
He never liked them because his father always liked Arjun and taught him everything(even how to stop bramhastra).
He promised Duryodhan that he will end Pandavs family.
And in war lots of innocents dies so I don't think he did anything wrong. He was keeping his promise -_-

Before prats like you were born. We Battled by Rules, according to which battle stops in the evening and resumes in the morning. The same rules that according to Krishna became a rope that held back people from doing good, when it was intended to stop people from doing bad.

 

[Skull Knight]

Re: Onepiece zunisha's curse and jesus connection( wandering jew)

We Battled by Rules, according to which battle stops in the evening and resumes in the morning.

Battle didnot stopped at evenings. It stopped exactly at sunset.

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And where were these rules when:

1) Ghatotkach fought against Kauravs after sunset.

2)When Bhim attacked Duryodhan(below waist)

3)When Arjun killed
a)Karna(unarmed warrior)
b)Bhism(again unarmed warrior)
i)when Dronacharya was killed(again unarmed warrior)

Everyone cheated in Mahabharat. No big deal.

Before prats like you were born.We Battled by Rules

Right as if u were born in that time :bdpf:
Tell me which side u were fighting

 

[Anduril]

Re: Onepiece zunisha's curse and jesus connection( wandering jew)

Battle didnot stopped at evenings. It stopped exactly at sunset.

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And where were these rules when:

1) Ghatotkach fought against Kauravs after sunset.

2)When Bhim attacked Duryodhan(below waist)

3)When Arjun killed
a)Karna(unarmed warrior)
b)Bhism(again unarmed warrior)
i)when Dronacharya was killed(again unarmed warrior)

Everyone cheated in Mahabharat. No big deal.

As I said, you don't understand nothing. Those Laws applied to the Kshtriyas participating in the war. GhatotKach being a Part-Rakshas did not foolow any law.
Secondly, Bheem was ready to atone for what he did to duryodhan, when Balram saw him break that rule. But Krishna said, that it was also against the rule for balram to punish bheem as he would be breaking a rule to punish the wrong doer (Bheem).
Most of the things you listed, saying pandavas broke the rule were incognito done by Krishna, who saw it that the right side would surely loose if they followed the rules and it became imperative to bend the rules to make it so that the righteous won. He was all for the greater good. And he accepted the consequences by being the person who destroyed the immensely powerful Yadava clan and died in a forest without any recognition as an hermit.

And that was all the point of Mahabharata, we were so rigidly following the system in the vedas that good and strong people seeing wrong things happening in front of them could not do anything and that's what according to krishna was wrong with that system. He firmly believed that "Karma" should be the sole basis for all things.

Right as if u were born in that time :bdpf:
Tell me which side u were fighting

Yeah I was one of the soldiers who got stomped on somewhere :bdpf:

 

[Skull Knight]

Re: Onepiece zunisha's curse and jesus connection( wandering jew)

As I said, you don't understand nothing. Those Laws applied to the Kshtriyas participating in the war. GhatotKach being a Part-Rakshas did not foolow any law.

If thats true then those rules don't applied on Aswatthama because he was Brahmin :bdpf:

Secondly, Bheem was ready to atone for what he did to duryodhan, when Balram saw him break that rule. But Krishna said, that it was also against the rule for balram to punish bheem as he would be breaking a rule to punish the wrong doer (Bheem).

Lord Krishna stopped his brother but he himself broke the rule and punish Aswatthama?

Most of the things you listed, saying pandavas broke the rule were incognito done by Krishna, who saw it that the right side would surely loose if they followed the rules and it became imperative to bend the rules to make it so that the righteous won. He was all for the greater good. And he accepted the consequences by being the person who destroyed the immensely powerful Yadava clan and died in a forest without any recognition as an hermit.

U heard the term "History is written by victors" same thing happened here.
Pandavs were winners, they justified there actions. Kauravs lost the war, they cant justify there actions.
And i agree wit the karma part. Everybody deserved what they got but jeez Aswatthama punishment was way too Harsh. It would have been 10 times better if he died there :|

 

[Avani]

If thats true then those rules don't applied on Aswatthama because he was Brahmin :bdpf:


Lord Krishna stopped his brother but he himself broke the rule and punish Aswatthama?

He was a Brahmin, higher than Kshtriyas- they claim to have a higher standards of ethics. The law exempt death penalty to them to save the knowledge they had and in case of severe crime they were exiled instead. And here he was killing sleeping people and pregnant woman and the unborn kid and extending the war even after Duryodhan and Kaurava's had lost and the war was over but for him dragging on his own vendetta. Uttara was not even a warrior, not even on the battlefield. And the weapon just didn't kill Uttara and her baby but also was supposed to induce famine for 12 years. Civilians would have suffered not just Pandvas. There was a major situation with the current king and administration gone and might lead to a vacuum if no one was there to stabilize the system right after the major war. But he didn't care for anything.

As for Balarama- Duryodhan was his favourite student. The unborn kid, whom Ashwatthama killed, was also his (Balarama) sister's grandson. Balarama was righteous in his own way but he skipped the whole Mahabharat after giving Kauravas's the army because he didn't want to take sides in a family feud. He returned after it ended and decided he to jump in anyway.

The last they needed was to start another war within family- if Balarama attacked Bheema wouldn't other Pandva's react? If they didn't it would be for their regard for Krishna. All Krishna did was to remind him: “True, this time Bhima was wrong, but brother, many, many times Bhima was innocent when Duryodhana showed tremendous hostility towards him and his brothers. You know, Brother, right from his boyhood, Duryodhana treated Bhima badly. So please forgive Bhima for this misdeed. It is only once he has done this, whereas he has been treated mercilessly so many times by Duryodhana.”

Duryodhan had poisoned Bheema and then threw himin to the river to drown. 'Tried to kill them all on various occasions. What did Balaram did on those occasions? Balarama stopped because he had no answer.

Krishna's message is clear- We don't need another war. And that it's just fine and dandy to have ethics and follow them but if the other side is not following it and it has become weakness of the righteous then they are doomed no matter how right they are. It wouldn't really matter. Pandavas mostly kept the ethics but in the end they had to make exceptions in case of the enemies that had ignored it already whenever it suited them. He had a no-nonsense approach and didn't find it a smart move and still he did acknowledged the law of Karma for himself too.

Frankly if Indian kings in 700-1100 Ad understood his message history of India might have much different.

U heard the term "History is written by victors" same thing happened here.
Pandavs were winners, they justified there actions. Kauravs lost the war, they cant justify there actions.

That's funny. History was written by the great grandpa Vyas who was ancestor to both side and in whole Mahabharat he covered deeds of both sides right or wrong. Other than that he never reaped any benefit from them. Lived in his own Ashram as a hermit.

Do not to others what ye do not wish
Done to yourself; and wish for others too
What ye desire and long for, for yourself — This is the whole of dharma — heed —it well.
-Veda Vyas, Mahabharat


That's the whole conclusion of Mahabharat at the end. Law of Karma that's what established. No one escaped that- not even Krishna- since even if he is called an incarnation of God, at the time he incarnated as a human and the law applied to him just the same.

You can keep arguing or go back and really understand what the whole story is about.

 

[Skull Knight]

Re: Onepiece zunisha's curse and jesus connection( wandering jew)

He was a Brahmin - they claim to have a higher standards of ethics. The law exempt death penalty to them to save the knowledge they had and in case of severe crime they were exiled instead. And here he was killing sleeping people and pregnant woman and the unborn kid and extending the war even after Duryodhan and Kaurava's had lost and the war was over but for him dragging his own vendetta. Uttara was not even a warrior, not even on the battlefield. And the weapon just didn't kill Uttara and her baby but also was supposed to induce famine for 12 years. Civilians would have suffered not just Pandvas. There was a major situation with the current king and administration gone and may lead to a vacuum for the next one if no one was thereto stabilize the system right after the major system. But he didn't care for anything.

U know na Ravan was also half Brahmin. Lord Ram killed him.
Your point that he was exiled because he was Brahmin automatically becomes moot. Only reason his life was spared because Vyasa(if i m right) told Pandavs not to go after him, otherwise he will curse them.

As for Balarama- he was also interested in marrying his sister to Duryodhan- against her wishes because he was his favourite student. The unborn kid, whom Ashwatthama killed, was also his (Balarama) sister's grandson. Balarama was righteous in his own way but he skipped the whole Mahabharat after giving Kauravas's the army because he didn't want to take sides in a faamily feud. He returned after it ended and decided he to jump in anyway.

He will obviously jump in because his favourite student was getting murdered by Bhim who attacked him below waist.

The last they needed was to start another war within family- if Balarama attacked Bheema wouldn't other Pandva's react? If they didn't it would be for their regard for Krishna. All Krishna did was to remind him: “True, this time Bhima was wrong, but brother, many, many times Bhima was innocent when Duryodhana showed tremendous hostility towards him and his brothers. You know, Brother, right from his boyhood, Duryodhana treated Bhima badly. So please forgive Bhima for this misdeed. It is only once he has done this, whereas he has been treated mercilessly so many times by Duryodhana.”

@Bold
U know na how Yadavs empire collapsed.They started fighting against each other.

Duryodhan had poisoned Bheema and then threw himin to the river to drown. 'Tried to kill them all on various occasions. What did Balaram did on those occasions? Balarama stopped because he had no answer.

why will Balaram intervene here? it was not war and bhim was never his favourite student.
U think Lord Krishna would intervene when Karna challenged Arjun first time(In Hastinapur)?

Krishna's message is clear- We don't need another war. And that it's just fine and dandy to have ethics and follow them but if the other side is not following it and it has become weakness of the righteous then they are doomed no matter how right they are. It wouldn't really matter. Pandavas mostly kept the ethics but in the end they had to make exceptions in case of the enemies that had ignored it already whenever it suited them. He had a no-nonsense approach and didn't find it a smart move and still he did acknowledged the law of Karma for himself too.

Everybody in Mahabharat broke rules and regulations.
When Pandavs did it, everyone was like its ok, they have too. They cant win this war if they dont break those rules.
When Kauravs broke those rules, everyone was like how could they?

That's the whole conclusion of Mahabharat at the end. Law of Karma that's what established. No one escaped that- not even Krishna- since even if he is called an incarnation of God, at the time he incarnated as a human and the law applied to him just the same.

Its not like karma back bite Lord Krishna. every Vishu avtar died that way. Lord Krishna was an exception case.
He was cursed by Gandhari that he will saw his empire destruction
He gave most of his power to revive that unborn kid
and Barbarika's arrow which struck his leg before Mahabharat became his Achilles heal.

You can keep arguing or go back and really understand what the whole story is about.

Anybody who read Mahabharat knows its not a complicated story. so stop making it one.
War was started because a women insulted a Man.
Jealousy, Anger were main reason why Kurukshetra war took place.
Everybody got what they deserved.

 

[Avani]

U know na Ravan was also half Brahmin. Lord Ram killed him.
Your point that he was exiled because he was Brahmin automatically becomes moot. Only reason his life was spared because Vyasa(if i m right) told Pandavs not to go after him, otherwise he will curse them.

I don't see what Ramayana has to do here. Rama atoned for killing a Brahmin anyway.

Source? Why would Vyas curse them?

He will obviously jump in because his favourite student was getting murdered by Bhim who attacked him below waist.

Yea so he has nothing to say when his favourite student makes murder attempts at his cousin but jumps in when the cousin returns the favour. Exactly what's your point here?

@Bold
U know na how Yadavs empire collapsed.They started fighting against each other.


why will Balaram intervene here? it was not war and bhim was never his favourite student.
U think Lord Krishna would intervene when Karna challenged Arjun first time(In Hastinapur)?

Who was talking about Yadava war? You are not making any sense at all by jumping from one scene to another that happened much much later( 36 year later).

Everybody in Mahabharat broke rules and regulations.
When Pandavs did it, everyone was like its ok, they have too. They cant win this war if they dont break those rules.
When Kauravs broke those rules, everyone was like how could they?

Because everyone was fed up for what Duryodhan treated them all the time. No one is surprised and saying how could they? It's simply the realization that it's not working. That it was time Pandavas learned they cannot win the war if they are the only ones following ethics.

Its not like karma back bite Lord Krishna. every Vishu avtar died that way. Lord Krishna was an exception case.
He was cursed by Gandhari that he will saw his empire destruction
He gave most of his power to revive that unborn kid
and Barbarika's arrow which struck his leg before Mahabharat became his Achilles heal.

Who is this every Avatar who died that way? Actually how many of them 'died'?

Avatars don't die- they leave the mortal body and go back to original self. If you accept Krishna was an avatar then Gandhari's curse won't work since she was a mere mortal. Or do you really think that mortals can curse Gods and make it happen? Especially the mortals who willfully acted blind all their life and ignored actions of their son? Because then it interferes with the concept of God itself. The fact that he accepted it says a lot. That he bound himself with the law of Karma and let it be.

If you see it as a fictional work then too the moral is the same- law of Karma.

Anybody who read Mahabharat knows its not a complicated story. so stop making it one.
War was started because a women insulted a Man.
Jealousy, Anger were main reason why Kurukshetra war took place.
Everybody got what they deserved.

Anybody who has actually read Mahabharat knows how complex and well crafted it is especially seeing the other contemporary work in other places of the world which is claimed to be written along the same age.

@ Bold: That was first thing I said- that they all were bound by law of Karma.

If you agree everybody got what they deserved then what are you arguing about? It applies to Ashwatthama too. Have a good day.

 

[Rohan]

I think Ashwatthama intended to kill the five Pandavas but due to a switch up he accidentally killed their five sons in the darkness. It was only when morning came that Ashwatthama saw the faces and realized his mistake. When the incapacitated Duryodhan saw this, he died in shock.

 

[Skull Knight]

Rama had to atone for it.

that means Pandavs can kill Aswathama and later atone for it.
But they didn't because Vyasa said so.

Yea so he has nothing to say when his favourite student makes murder attempts at his cousin but jumps in when the cousin returns the favour. Exactly what's your point here?

What will he say?
What Duryodhan did was politics.Assassination/killing/murder of cousins,brothers,father for power is common thing.
What Bhem did there was cheating.

Who was talking about Yadava war? You are not making any sense at all. Jumping from one scene to another that happened much much later.

u only said: "The last they wanted is a war within family" but Yadav war happened.

Because everyone was fed up for what Duryodhan kept doing for more than 40-60 years. No one is surprised and saying how could they? It's simply that it was time Pandavas learned they cannot win the war if they are the only ones following ethics.

So u agree those rules were bogus & Nobody followed them.

Who is this every Avatar who died that way?

lets keep that for another day :bdpf:

Actually how many of them died?

Everyone. They were not immortals. Only Parshuram was Immortal.

If you accept Krishna was an avatar then Gandhari's curse won't work since she was a mere mortal. The fact that he accepted it says a lot. That he bound himself with the law of Karma and let it be. If you see it as a fictional work then too the moral is the same. Or do you really think that mortals can curse Gods? Because then it interferes with the concept of God itself.

Fact: Gandhari cursed Krishna and his empire collapsed.
Snake cursed Bhism ie why his end days were on that arrow bed
That era anyone can give curse to anybody.

@ Bold: That was first thing I said- that they all were bound by law of Karma.

If you agree everybody got what they deserved then what are you arguing about? It applies to Ashwatthama too.

I agree everyone got what they deserved.
I dont agree with the part where u said he deserved that punishment because he broke rules and regulations.
And I still believe his punishment was really harsh compared to other guys who fought Kurukshetra warU_U

 

[lord seventh]

Man from the very beginning mahabharat has many flaws

 

[Skull Knight]

I think Ashwatthama intended to kill the five Pandavas but due to a switch up he accidentally killed their five sons in the darkness. It was only when morning came that Ashwatthama saw the faces and realized his mistake. When the incapacitated Duryodhan saw this, he died in shock.

actually Duryodhan was happy when Aswatthama said,"he only managed to kill the Pandava's children as the Pandavas were not there".
He was happy because he thought Pandavs lineage ended there. He died with a happy face.

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Man from the very beginning mahabharat has many flaws

i agree u_u

 

[Avani]

that means Pandavs can kill Aswathama and later atone for it.
But they didn't because Vyasa said so.

They could but they didn't. That's the point. Vyas had no role in that part.

Draupadi was born to because Drupad wanted revenge on Drona and she is not the type to forgive easily. The fact that she asked for gem to avenge death of her sons, and not his blood was because he was a Brahmin and a guruputra.

I rechecked my copy of Mahabharata ( Geeta Press Translation) :

Ashwatthama ran from Pandvas to Vyas' Ashram Vyas told him to give away the gem as an atonement and he asked Pandvas to take the gem but let Ashwatthama go. Ashwatthama refused and launched Brahmastra. Arjun launched his to counter it. Vyas knew the damage it wil cause so he asked both sides to drop weapons and recall it.

It's not that Ashwathtama was not taught how to retract- it was that he couldn't due to his own shortcomings. He lacked the required spiritual power for it.

Secondly Krishna told him to go in exile and away from humans whom he had just doomed with famine along with killing kids a second time as he revived Parikshita. Vyas was angry at him that despite being a Brahmin he was acting in such a lowly way and told him that he had fallen. Bheema had promised Draupadi to bring back the gem from Ashwatthama for killing all her sons and brother while they were asleep. So he he plucked the gem off and went back to Draupadi.

What will he say?
What Duryodhan did was politics.Assassination/killing/murder of cousins,brothers,father for power is common thing.
What Bhem did there was cheating.

Killing a cheater who spent whole life trying to kill you so that he could steal your rights... If I use your own words For Bheema it was both war and love- he had made a promise to Drauapadi in both cases.

u only said: "The last they wanted is a war within family" but Yadav war happened.

36 year later. And they still didn't want it. Balarama and Krishna walked away letting rest of them kill themselves. At least they didn't fight with each other.

So u agree those rules were bogus & Nobody followed them.

Rules are ideals. The war is a reality.

Who is this every Avatar who died that way?

lets keep that for another day Everyone. They were not immortals. Only Parshuram was Immortal.

Basically you found out that "everyone"was a wrong word. Half the names aren't even mortal humans.

Fact: Gandhari cursed Krishna and his empire collapsed.
Snake cursed Bhism ie why his end days were on that arrow bed
That era anyone can give curse to anybody.

Yawn... is it added just to give some volume to the post?

I agree everyone got what they deserved.
I dont agree with the part where u said he deserved that punishment because he broke rules and regulations.
And I still believe his punishment was really harsh compared to other guys who fought Kurukshetra warU_U

Ashwatthama has only himself to blame. He bit more he could chew. He still does have a promise for him to be one of the great seven sages in the eighth Manvantar. One doesn't have such a high seat waiting for him and still go on doing stupid things. If he didn't atone for his sin as an exile it will be more questionable.

actually Duryodhan was happy when Aswatthama said,"he only managed to kill the Pandava's children as the Pandavas were not there".
He was happy because he thought Pandavs lineage ended there. He died with a happy face.

So? Duryodhan is the villain of the story. Since when a dying wish of villain must be fullfilled for a successful ending? It only shows his meaness. He was dying and still only could think of killing all Pandvas too.

You sure seem to think the duo to be 'the coolest guys' for some reason when they spent their whole life plotting against their cousins or classmates. The guy even tried to molest his first cousin's wife in an open court.

 

[Skull Knight]

They could but they didn't. That's the point. Vyas had no role in that part.

Yes he had. check it on wiki

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Spoiler

Sage Vyasa prohibited Pandavas from doing so because Pandavas themselves employed deceit to kill their own Guru Drona. Sage Vyasa explained that it was due to the severe sin of killing their Guru Drona by unethical means, the Pandavas suffered severe tragedy and their entire lineage came to extinction. Further Sage Vyasa warned Pandavas that he will curse Pandavas if they ever tried to hurt Aswatthama, the lone survivor of their Gurus lineage

Draupadi was born to because Drupad wanted revenge on Drona and she is not the type to forgive easily.

Draupadi has nothing to do wit revenge.It was Dhristdyuman who was born to kill Dronacharya.

The fact that she asked for gem to avenge death of her sons, and not his blood was because he was a Brahmin and a guruputra.

Actually that gem gave Ashwatthama his powers.
without it anybody can kill him.
Draupadi was clever. she knew if her husbands kill him they have to atone for all there life.
But if she takes that gem somebody will definately kill him.

Ashwatthama ran from Pandvas to Vyas' Ashram Vyas told him to give away the gem as an atonement and he asked Pandvas to take the gem but let Ashwatthama go. Ashwatthama refused and launched Brahmastra. Arjun launched his to counter it. Vyas knew the damage it wil cause so he asked both sides to drop weapons and recall it.

It's not that Ashwathtama was not taught how to retract- it was that he couldn't due to his own shortcomings. He lacked the required spiritual power for it.

what? Ashwatthama was never taught how to stop Brahmastra.

Killing a cheater who spent whole life trying to kill you so that he could steal your rights... If I use your own words For Bheema it was both war and love- he had made a promise to Drauapadi in both cases.

so u agree "Everything is fair in Luv and war"

36 year later. And they still didn't want it. Balarama and Krishna walked away letting rest of them kill themselves. At least they didn't fight with each other.

They knew they were doomed. They cant do anything. Balaram warned Krishna not to do anything in war. He didn't listened.
Ultimately they were cursed. Krishna left Dwarka and Balaram did the same. Yadav empire collapsed.

Ashwatthama has only himself to blame. He bit more he could chew. He still does have a promise for him to be one of the great seven sages in the eighth Manvantar. One doesn't have such a high seat waiting for him and still go on doing stupid things. If he didn't atone for his sin as an exile it will be more questionable.

Do u think 3000years punishment is a small thing for a guy who wants revenge from Pandavs?

So? Duryodhan is the villain of the story.

Actually real villain in Mahabharat was Shakuni mama. He promised that one day he will destroy Hastinapur empire(something like that).
Duryodhan and Draupadi were the main reason why kurukshetra war started.

Since when a dying wish of villain must be fullfilled for a successful ending? It only shows his meaness. He was dying and still only could think of killing all Pandvas too.

Actually he was villain because Mahabharat was written with Victors(Pandavs) point of view. If Kauravs had won the war the history would have been different.

You sure seem to think the duo to be 'the coolest guys' for some reason when they spent their whole life plotting against their cousins or classmates. The guy even tried to molest his first cousin's wife in an open court.

1)Draupadi insulted Duryodhan(which crushed his ego) sayin "Blind's kid is also blind" which triggered Chir haran incident which further triggered kurukshetra war.
2)i never liked Duryodhan. but i have to say he made some very good friends. Karna didnot left his side because Duryodhan was his friend. Aswatthama continued the war even after the death of Duryodhan.

Rules are ideals. The war is a reality.

Yawn... is it added just to give some volume to the post? :bdpf:

Basically you found out that "everyone"was a wrong word. Half the names aren't even mortal humans.

4 0f them were mortals. Remaining 5 one of them is Immortal(parshuram) rest 4 has no info.

Again who is this everyone- lease name them.

Nope i wont name them. Otherwise u will change the topic:bouncy:

 

[Avani]

Yes he had. check it on wiki

You must be registered for see links

Have you checked the source where they said that? It's selective dialogue at best. Vyas also asked Ashwatthama to let the gem go which he refused. A lot more was being said there.

And I don't know why they are using Namita Gokhale as one of the sources. They should be sticking with standard original book.

what? Ashwatthama was never taught how to stop Brahmastra.

In the Mahabharat published by Geeta Press Gorakhpur, there is a lengthy dialogue where Ashwatthama and Vyas talk and it is said that he couldn't. He knew the conditions but hadn't fulfilled them and thus he wasn't qualified enough. I may try taking snapshots of those two pages and link you here. But it will be many shots. I don't want to type it all anyway.

He keeps switching between moments of realization and wisdom and then letting his baser instincts affect his actions and reasoning. Also there are a lot of versions going around.

so u agree "Everything is fair in Luv and war"

No I don't. But I know the difference between ideals and reality and while I agree that ideals should be respected and followed, I know it doesn't work with certain type and then you have to go for the greater good. Of course law of Karma would still apply- one should be ready to accept the consequences too.

They knew they were doomed. They cant do anything. Balaram warned Krishna not to do anything in war. He didn't listened.
Ultimately they were cursed. Krishna left Dwarka and Balaram did the same. Yadav empire collapsed.

Balarama had sympathy with Duryodhana and yet he knew he was wrong. Krishna had no such dilema. Yadvas paid for their own arrogance. Krishna tried to stop them but they thought he was too rigid and they wanted their fun. :shrug:

Do u think 3000years punishment is a small thing for a guy who wants revenge from Pandavs?

Your focus is too narrow. His whole life was a messy search for power. He was a fallen Brahman and yet he is supposed to be one of the Saptarshi in next Manvantar when the time completes. He can claim that he atoned for his past sins.

As for revenge- the cycle of war between Drupad and Drona was started by Drona. He asked Pandvas to attack Drupad for no reason other than him not acknowledging childhood friendship.

"You say we can't be friends anymore? I will take away your kingdom and enslave you!!!! "

Seriously?

Drona asked Karna, Dushassana and others to attack Abhimanyu simultaneously and you probably know how it went on. Drona becomes the reason for one of the biggest war rule violation. This is actually seen as the arrival of Kaliyug on the Earth.
And it happenned not only under Drona's watch but his activeparticipation.

Why didn't he face Abhimanyu alone? He was a 16 year old kid and Drona was this fearsome seasoned warrior supposed to be too great to be defeated without being cheated?

Draupadi has nothing to do wit revenge.It was Dhristdyuman who was born to kill Dronacharya.

The fact that she asked for gem to avenge death of her sons, and not his blood was because he was a Brahmin and a guruputra.


Actually that gem gave Ashwatthama his powers.
without it anybody can kill him.
Draupadi was clever. she knew if her husbands kill him they have to atone for all there life.
But if she takes that gem somebody will definately kill him.

They were twins and she was the first born when Drupad did perform yagya. Drupad wouldn't do that if Drona didn't attack him. He was told the son alone cannot bring down Drona.

The gem made him invincible that's true but he is still immortal. No one is killing him anytime soon. And Draupadi specifically said she didn't want his death but she definitely want to feel him the disgrace for klling her sons.

It was war - enemy attacked in the night and killed all her sons. She could ask his blood in return. Isn't that the way things go in a war? Camrades and kins die and the cycle continues.

Actually real villain in Mahabharat was Shakuni mama. He promised that one day he will destroy Hastinapur empire(something like that).
Duryodhan and Draupadi were the main reason why kurukshetra war started.

Seed of war was thrown in years before Draupadi entered the picture. Duryodhan did that on his own. Shakuni may have had his role but Dhritrashtra should have used his own brain. Bhishma should have used his.

Blaming Draupadi is for it is nothing but chauvenistic tendency to blame the woman. All she did was to chose Arjuna for marriage. She ends up married to 5 brothers. On top of it their cousins are also trying to rape her. And it's her fault now. Great.

Actually he was villain because Mahabharat was written with Victors(Pandavs) point of view. If Kauravs had won the war the history would have been different.

Again for Vyas both sides made little difference. Both were made of his children's children.

1)Draupadi insulted Duryodhan(which crushed his ego) sayin "Blind's kid is also blind" which triggered Chir haran incident which further triggered kurukshetra war.

Actually that was Bheem, she just laughed when he said that. And Duryodhan had already made two serious murder attempts at Pandvas even before they married Draupdi. Bheem was poisone as a kid. And Laksha Grih scandle.

2)i never liked Duryodhan. but i have to say he made some very good friends. Karna didnot left his side because Duryodhan was his friend. Aswatthama continued the war even after the death of Duryodhan.

He was a god politician.

Yawn... is it added just to give some volume to the post? :bdpf:

So basically you did.

Nope i wont name them. Otherwise u will change the topic:bouncy:

No you won't because then you won't be able to hide your mistake in that statement at all.


Stop using Wiki and buy the actual book.

 

[Skull Knight]

Have you checked the source where they said that? It's selective dialogue at best. Vyas also asked Ashwatthama to let the gem go which he refused. A lot more was being said there.

And I don't know why they are using Namita Gokhale as one of the sources. They should be sticking with standard original book.

Mahabharat was interpreted by lots of guys. Everybody added there own versions. But the facts remain that Vyasa prohibited Pandavs not to go against Aswatthama.

No I don't. But I know the difference between ideals and reality and while I agree that ideals should be respected and followed, I know it doesn't work with certain type and then you have to go for the greater good. Of course law of Karma would still apply- one should be ready to accept the consequences too.

I think u haven't read/watch much about wars in movies/books.
People forget everything in war. Rules & ideals means nothing to them.
In a war men's are killed, women are raped & kids are taken as slaves. This happened every time a war took place.

Balarama had sympathy with Duryodhana and yet he knew he was wrong. Krishna had no such dilema. Yadvas paid for their own arrogance. Krishna tried to stop them but they thought he was too rigid and they wanted their fun. :shrug:

Balaram always warned Krishna not to indulge wit Pandavs. He didnot liked them much. I remember "he said who in right mind puts her wife on bet"(something like that).
On the other hand Krishna supported Pandavs. He was ready to broke his promise when Bhishm attacked arjun & destroyed his rath.
So both the parties supported there own group.

Your focus is too narrow. His whole life was a messy search for power. He was a fallen Brahman and yet he is supposed to be one of the Saptarshi in next Manvantar when the time completes. He can claim that he atoned for his past sins.

Not really. Ashwatthama knew his limitations. He knew he can't beat Pandavs(5vs1) that's why he used Bramhastra. And he was the only Kaurav commander who told Duryodhan to accept Pandavs wish(5village thing) because they lost too many men in battlefield.

As for revenge- the cycle of war between Drupad and Drona was started by Drona. He asked Pandvas to attack Drupad for no reason other than him not acknowledging childhood friendship.

"You say we can't be friends anymore? I will take away your kingdom and enslave you!!!! "

Seriously?

Whatever the case was, Draupadi had nothing to do wit revenge thing u_u

Drona asked Karna, Dushassana and others to attack Abhimanyu simultaneously and you probably know how it went on. Drona becomes the reason for one of the biggest war rule violation. This is actually seen as the arrival of Kaliyug on the Earth.
And it happenned not only under Drona's watch but his activeparticipation.

Why didn't he face Abhimanyu alone? He was a 16 year old kid and Drona was this fearsome seasoned warrior supposed to be too great to be defeated without being cheated?

Because sunset was about to happen & Abhimanyu killed lots of guys in Kauravs camp. It's not like Kauravs were the only one who broke the law. Arjun attacked Bhishm(when he had no weapons).

They were twins and she was the first born when Drupad did perform yagya. Drupad wouldn't do that if Drona didn't attack him. He was told the son alone cannot bring down Drona.

I don't think anything like this was stated in Mahabharat.

The gem made him invincible that's true but he is still immortal. No one is killing him anytime soon. And Draupadi specifically said she didn't want his death but she definitely want to feel him the disgrace for klling her sons.

He is still immortal because he was cursed.
And Immortality is the biggest curse in world. Your loved ones will die infront of you. You will see all type of goods and bads. After one time u will wish for death. Now add those diseases and remain alone thing for next 3000years.

It was war - enemy attacked in the night and killed all her sons. She could ask his blood in return. Isn't that the way things go in a war? Camrades and kins die and the cycle continues.

I told u above she was a very clever women. She learnt a lot of thing in her journey. She knew without that gem Ashwatthama will be powerless. He will die soon ie why she asked for that gem.

Seed of war was thrown in years before Draupadi entered the picture. Duryodhan did that on his own. Shakuni may have had his role but Dhritrashtra should have used his own brain. Bhishma should have used his.

Bhishm knew lots if things but he promised he will act like a servant of Hastinapur & follow King's order. Shakuni wants to destroy Hadtinapur. At first he instigated Dhitrastra against his brother. Later he did the same wit Duryodhan.

Blaming Draupadi is for it is nothing but chauvenistic tendency to blame the woman. All she did was to chose Arjuna for marriage. She ends up married to 5 brothers. On top of it their cousins are also trying to rape her. And it's her fault now. Great.

It's not like Draupadi did nothing in Mahabharat.
She insulted Karna(major reason why he didnot stop Chir haran), She insulted Duryodhan(which triggered kurukshetra war).

Again for Vyas both sides made little difference. Both were made of his children's children.

Again mahabharat was written in Pandavs point of view. It showed how they were living/hiding all those years.
It never told/showed how Duryodhan was enjoying his father wealth. It never showed what Dushashan was doing when Pandavs were exiled.

Actually that was Bheem, she just laughed when he said that. And Duryodhan had already made two serious murder attempts at Pandvas even before they married Draupdi. Bheem was poisone as a kid. And Laksha Grih scandle.

@Bold
In politics those are common things

He was a god politician.

Better than Yudhistir?

Stop using Wiki and buy the actual book.

I was told not to keep Mahabharat book in home because it brings negativity in life.