Arizona Passes New Law Feb 2014

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Prime Rib

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Arizona's Legislature has passed a controversial bill that would allow business owners, as long as they assert their religious beliefs, to deny service to gay and lesbian customers.

To read the full story which i reccomend you do before you post thanks.

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what is everyone opinion and thoughts about this?



if anyone hear trys to start saying negative things towards gays or straights or to religious people then you will be reported.
 

Unbiased

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Good, these guys should be able to practice their religion without having to violate it. I don't like religion, but America is a place of religious freedom and no one should have to do something that is against their religious beliefs.
 

Made in Heaven

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Like ice said in similar threads; we all have our ideas of what is right or wrong, so one can not say that their morals are 100% right. If someone wishes to relive homosexuality is right or wrong, they should. If they believe cabalism is okay, they are allowed (their are people who practice this). If one county considers 14 yr olds old enough for ***, while another says 18, we can't say whose right or wrong
 

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Issues like these are always a gray area to me, but I'm going to say that business owners retain the right the serve whom they please.

The difference with this in comparing it to racial intolerance is that Jim Crow laws promised "separate but equal" yet failed to do so in actuality, leading to the end of said laws, so until everyone as a US citizen, or Arizona citizen, is guaranteed the equal service as a sort of right to all in themselves, there really is no legal basis, IMO, to say that business owners shouldn't refuse service.
 

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Issues like these are always a gray area to me, but I'm going to say that business owners retain the right the serve whom they please.

The difference with this in comparing it to racial intolerance is that Jim Crow laws promised "separate but equal" yet failed to do so in actuality, leading to the end of said laws, so until everyone as a US citizen, or Arizona citizen, is guaranteed the equal service as a sort of right to all in themselves, there really is no legal basis, IMO, to say that business owners shouldn't refuse service.
I'm not even sure why they're comparing it to Jim Crow. Your skin color is something you're born with. You can't change it under normal circumstances. Homosexuality is an action. The whole world won't know you're a homosexual till you display it. It's two completely different things.
 

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Issues like these are always a gray area to me, but I'm going to say that business owners retain the right the serve whom they please.

The difference with this in comparing it to racial intolerance is that Jim Crow laws promised "separate but equal" yet failed to do so in actuality, leading to the end of said laws, so until everyone as a US citizen, or Arizona citizen, is guaranteed the equal service as a sort of right to all in themselves, there really is no legal basis, IMO, to say that business owners shouldn't refuse service.
Laws like this promote segregation. Thats why this is wrong.
 

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Laws like this promote segregation. Thats why this is wrong.
No it isn't wrong. Laws like this protect the religious rights of Jews, Muslims, and Christians. Why should an action have prevalence over someones religious beliefs? It's a rhetorical question because it doesn't. There's a reason the freedom of religion is the first amendment in the USA's Constitution.
 

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how is doing business with homosexuals against their religion? i think this law is stupid religion is an unproven fandom so to say it can dictate who does business in whatever company is silly i hope these stores get hit hard (in the financial sense)
 
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dominicansharingan

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No it isn't wrong. Laws like this protect the religious rights of Jews, Muslims, and Christians. Why should an action have prevalence over someones religious beliefs? It's a rhetorical question because it doesn't. There's a reason the freedom of religion is the first amendment in the USA's Constitution.
Yeah but your religion is going against the values of this country, by your logic, then mormons shouldn't be prosecuted for been polygamist, or lets allow child sacraficis because some satanic religions accept this. That is totally wrong dude.
 

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Laws like this promote segregation. Thats why this is wrong.
So when is it okay to refuse sale to a customer?

Should a business owner be held accountable if he refused to sell Yankee vs RedSox tickets to a RedSox fan? That's discrimination, which promotes segregation.

How about refusing to sell alcohol and cigarettes to minors? That's discrimination, which promotes segregation.

Or what of selling pet mice to a cat owner? That's discrimination which, you guessed it, leads to segregation.

If discrimination is everywhere and segregation is its brother, why isn't there segregation everywhere we see discrimination?
 

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how is doing business with homosexuals against their religion? i think this law is stupid religion is an unproven fandom so to say it can dictate who does business in whatever company is silly i hope these stores get hit hard (in the financial sense)
It's unconstitutional for someone's religious beliefs to be violated. If the actions of someone is strictly forbidden in your beliefs, then providing for them is indirectly speaking a violation of your religion.

Example: Someone gets hit by a car, and emergency vehicles are on the way. Someone blocks the emergency vehicle from their destination and the person who got hit by the car dies. That person who blocked the emergency vehicle is now indirectly responsible for their death. He had nothing to do with him getting hit, but assisted in his death indirectly.

So when is it okay to refuse sale to a customer?

Should a business owner be held accountable if he refused to sell Yankee vs RedSox tickets to a RedSox fan? That's discrimination, which promotes segregation.

How about refusing to sell alcohol and cigarettes to minors? That's discrimination, which promotes segregation?

Or what of selling pet mice to a cat owner? That's discrimination which, you guessed it, leads to discrimination.

If discrimination is everywhere and segregation is its brother, why isn't there segregation everywhere we see discrimination?
All businesses have the right to refuse a sale to someone for any reason. This goes for walmart, walgreens, sports authority etc. All American businesses yet still have the same right. A manager at any store can refuse a sale to someone for any reason if they even decide to state one.

Yeah but your religion is going against the values of this country, by your logic, then mormons shouldn't be prosecuted for been polygamist, or lets allow child sacraficis because some satanic religions accept this. That is totally wrong dude.
I already stated I don't like religion so don't say "your religion". Furthermore mormons are not persecuted for being polygamist as of 2014 it's now legal(in the state of Utah). Satanism is a religious belief that focuses solely on your existence and not satan itself. You clearly don't understand religion or even know recent laws that were passed.
 
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Prime Rib

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how is doing business with homosexuals against their religion? i think this law is stupid religion is an unproven fandom so to say it can dictate who does business in whatever company is silly i hope these stores get hit hard (in the financial sense)
i dont see why you are attacking religion? for no one has attacked you based on your beliefs.

if a person chooses not to sell to a person in a non discrimination way then thats fine, but if its solely based on who they are for example a person flaunting there homosexuality or straightness in there own store then thats a debate no one should be able to judge beccause the owner/employee of the store does not want that around his area and it should be respected.
 

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i dont see why you are attacking religion? for no one has attacked you based on your beliefs.

if a person chooses not to sell to a person in a non discrimination way then thats fine, but if its solely based on who they are for example a person flaunting there homosexuality or straightness in there own store then thats a debate no one should be able to judge beccause the owner/employee of the store does not want that around his area and it should be respected.
This right here. I used to work at a walgreens, and we had many people cause disruptions in the store. It didn't matter what color of skin they were, whether they were a homosexual etc, we removed them immediately. If your actions are causing a disruption in the store then even before this law you could be removed. This law just makes it illegal for a homosexual to sue due to someones religious convictions. I'm flabbergasted that someone would want to shop where the owner/employees don't tolerate their actions. I wouldn't because they are more likely to do a poor job on what I want let alone they don't accept me so why would someone support them.
 

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i dont see why you are attacking religion? for no one has attacked you based on your beliefs.

if a person chooses not to sell to a person in a non discrimination way then thats fine, but if its solely based on who they are for example a person flaunting there homosexuality or straightness in there own store then thats a debate no one should be able to judge beccause the owner/employee of the store does not want that around his area and it should be respected.
my beliefs aren't preventing someone from doing their shopping because they disagree with me and like i said religion is unproven and to see a law giving religion such power baffles me if a religious person who is against gays shouldn't go into business where they are bound to meet different people

i dont have a problem with religion, people can believe whatever they want but stuff like this shouldn't happen
 

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Yeah but your religion is going against the values of this country, by your logic, then mormons shouldn't be prosecuted for been polygamist, or lets allow child sacraficis because some satanic religions accept this. That is totally wrong dude.
What is wrong with Polygamy?

If two women want to marry the same man, and the man is fine with supporting two women... who are you to say that is wrong?

Seems quite bigoted, to me.

If the members of a satanic cult want to sacrifice their own children - why should I object? It's their child - their hereditary future - they are sacrificing. Honestly, I can't really find a down side to that arrangement.

Now, if they abduct someone else's child - that is clearly prohibited. Then we can perform an adult human sacrifice.

If you come into my store, my place of business - I have every right to not do business with you, for any reason I choose.

You do not have the right to come into my place of business and start demanding service at your terms. I mean - you have the right to free speech and to walk in the door - but it would require you to enact force upon me. You would have to call armed men to hold me at gunpoint (threaten to close down my store, to freeze my bank account, etc).

And that is not how we do things in this country.

If someone does not want to do business with you for such petty reasons as being homosexual or of a certain ethnicity - then don't do business with them and let your friends know.

By your logic - communists are not in line with the values of this country and all advocacy of communism should be illegal.

my beliefs aren't preventing someone from doing their shopping because they disagree with me and like i said religion is unproven and to see a law giving religion such power baffles me if a religious person who is against gays shouldn't go into business where they are bound to meet different people
Then perhaps you shouldn't go into shopping where you are bound to run into owners who refuse service to you.

I mean... if you are a person who likes having money, perhaps you shouldn't open a business where people are bound to come through without money. We can't discriminate against economic class, now can we?

Or how about those businesses that tell me I can't have service if I don't come in with shoes and a shirt? There are a lot of perfectly good establishments within walking distance of the swimming pool. I have to get fully dressed to get a candy bar that isn't a 500% mark-up at the pool? Maybe they shouldn't set their business up so close to the pool, then.

And... I know you are a decent photographer, but I -really- want a professional to get some nice shots of my next kid's conception. I'll report you if you refuse to give me service.
 
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