Are people starting to underrate Hiruzen Sarutobi?

Stein

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What if I told y'all that not always the strongest wins the fight? Maybe someone else has a more cunning technique up his sleeve which, used in the right situation, can turn the tides even against a stronger shinobi? Like Tobi vs Minato where Minato was at a disadvantage of time and Tobi knew most of his techniques. He had to use his strongest technique combined with the Rasengang in the most cunning and accurate way possible to beat his opponent. Or remember the Sasuke vs Itachi fight. Itachi was stronger than Sasuke but lost due to his illness. Luck is the strongest feat one can have.

But on the topic: We can't give an exact opinion on Hiruzen. What if the person who stated he was the strongest kage was exaggerating? I don't remember who exactly said this but I'm almost entirely sure that that person hadn't seen the first hokage in his prime. So the statement was subjective.
 

psukkar

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What if I told y'all that not always the strongest wins the fight? Maybe someone else has a more cunning technique up his sleeve which, used in the right situation, can turn the tides even against a stronger shinobi? Like Tobi vs Minato where Minato was at a disadvantage of time and Tobi knew most of his techniques. He had to use his strongest technique combined with the Rasengang in the most cunning and accurate way possible to beat his opponent. Or remember the Sasuke vs Itachi fight. Itachi was stronger than Sasuke but lost due to his illness. Luck is the strongest feat one can have.

But on the topic: We can't give an exact opinion on Hiruzen. What if the person who stated he was the strongest kage was exaggerating? I don't remember who exactly said this but I'm almost entirely sure that that person hadn't seen the first hokage in his prime. So the statement was subjective.
this guy knows his shit, and that person was izuka so he was noob, hardly the most relaible info. If madara says hasihrama is boss thats enough for me.
 

Straw Hat Zoro

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No people dont underrate him its just that he isnt brought up in the manga like at all anymore. And so we kind of put him on the back burner and forget him for a while. Sad but true....
 

Vennybear

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good job
+ rep

look i really don't understand why people here always have to take posts so personal :s he made good points and than i see people trying to kill his post with millions other arguments?
at this point there are so many fine shinobi that it's really hard to say he's better and he's better and prime this and that...
main point here is that many people underestimate hiruzen wich i agree on and that he deserves a lot of credit for what he has done in his live and even on the brink of death!
and ok he may be one of the best Kage but don't freak now people relax i didn't say he was the best :)
and isn't it so that a kage already is the best of many shinobi?
in his own period of time a kage is always 'the best'
it's too difficult to really see who is THE BEST of all time let's just say that's SO6P for now and let's see what the future will bring :)
 

Sarutobi Sasuke

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No, just no.
Im gonna let you say that Sarutobi was great, but by far not the strongest.
Are you watching the last manga? Are you seeing how strong is Madara? Do you know that Hashirama beat the beast Madara? Madara against 5 kages, and wins easily. So strongest hokage is Hashirama. period.
Sarutobi trully though Minato was better than him, remember that when he wasnt that old (14 years before his death) Minato was already hokage, and you dont give a man that responsibility if you dont think he is better than you.

IMO, there was a "hype" all around Sarutobi just to make a nice environment for the fight. Just imagine if they didnt say that: Orochimaru fighting against a "weak" hokage, totally anticlimatic.

You say beating Oro+1st+2nd hokages, but that has been stated many times, edo-tensei jutsu are as strong as the knowledge about the edo-tensed ninja. If you know all about his techniques, you can use him properly, if not, (as we can see with madara, for example) you let him go free and do it by himself. At that time, Orochimaru didnt use hokages properly, hence the defeat. Kabuto developed the new binding jutsu that made the edo-tensed ninjas force them to attack/defense at 100% even if they doesnt want.

He might have been good with jutsu, ok. He might have been a good hokage, ok. But definitely he was NOT the strongest Hokage, neither the best at his prime comparing "prime" times.
Do you truly believe that the Madara Hashirama defeated even slightly compares to the current Rinnegan bearing, Mokuton wielding, indestructible Edo-Madara with Hashirama DNA, a century's experience, knowledge and virtually unlimited chakra?? Hashirama barely survived his battle with the Normal Madara. How's he gonna gonna stand chance against Edo-Madara?

p.s Hiruzen is my favorite character but I dont think he's stronger than Edo-Madara. In the end it comes down to this: We dont have a clue how strong Hiruzen was in his so called "prime". Its pointless arguing about something thats based on an imporstant detail we know absolutely nothing about .

That said...Hizuren could have been a real monster...Guess we'll never know.

Kishimoto in a interview has stated that both the 3rd and 4th hokages are neck and neck for the title of strongest dead ninja aside from the s06p i assume
I forgot about that. That interview supposedly occurred just before the recent movie was released. I wonder if its genuine. If it is then that settles things.


 
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psukkar

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Do you truly believe that the Madara Hashirama defeated even slightly compares to the current Rinnegan bearing, Mokuton wielding, indestructible Edo-Madara with Hashirama DNA, a century's experience, knowledge and virtually unlimited chakra?? Hashirama barely survived his battle with the Normal Madara. How's he gonna gonna stand chance against Edo-Madara?

p.s Hiruzen is my favorite character but I dont think he's stronger than Edo-Madara. In the end it comes down to this: We dont have a clue how strong Hiruzen was in his so called "prime". Its pointless arguing about something thats based on an imporstant detail we know absolutely nothing about .

That said...Hizuren could have been a real monster...Guess we'll never know.


I forgot about that. That interview supposedly occurred just before the recent movie was released. I wonder if its genuine. If it is then that settles things.


barely survied? dont know about. this normal madara ur talking about, had prefect sassano and the fox by the way.
 

Sarutobi Sasuke

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barely survied? dont know about. this normal madara ur talking about, had prefect sassano and the fox by the way.
Look at Hashirama on . Its him right after his battle with "normal Madara", aka young living Madara. He dont look too good if you ask me.

Also, you have to remember that Hashirama was pretty bad ass at controlling bijuus. Bringing Kurama to the party might have been a liability for Madara.
 

startup97

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Sarutobi being able to handle the 1st, 2nd and Orochimaru while being confined in a space by the sound 4 is a testament to how powerful he was. Hiruzen also had keen senses, being able to track down the former Hokage under Hashirama Senju's Bringer-of-Darkness Technique. Enma commented on his battle with Orochimaru, saying that it was miserable compared to his prime, even though he had clearly been able to hold his own against Orochimaru and two former Hokage without losing his composure. He still had the skill and agility to place explosive tags on both the first and second hokage's legs at the same time. Knowing all the techniques of Konoha hes probably developed defences against them. Even in his old age, his chakra was noted for being very strong, causing a dense effect on the atmosphere when released furthermore, he was known for having immense reserves of chakra in his youth. People might say a person like Itachi would get him in a genjutsu. The 3rd being a student of the 1st and 2nd probably taught him how to counter the many Sharingan techniques. Hiruzen was also called The Professor (プロフェッサー, Purofessā), due to his mastery of all forms of shinobi combat, and his vast knowledge of techniques, purportedly knowing all the techniques within Konoha. He was admired as The God Of Shinobi and Only him and the Sage Of Six Paths share the nick name God Of Shinobi
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He was old and had very little chakra while fighting Orochimaru. One of the Anbu members mentioned that his primary fighting style was to fight with Shadow Clone just like Naruto but he had to reserve his chakra so he only brought 2. Using Rasengan or Chidori would have drained his chakra too much. It wouldn't be a smart thing to do. The only way was to seal both the Hokages. He was able to counter Tobirama and Hashirama in close combat, despite them being in their prime in the Summoning Impure World Reincarnation. Even when robbed of his sight from the genjutsu Bringer-of-Darkness Technique, he could still defend himself from Hashirama's and Tobirama's assaults, blocking all their attacks to prepare for his Dead Demon Consuming Seal. After summoning Enma, he could break Hashirama's Wood Release branches with ease. Even when someone as powerful as Danzo was dying he admitted that Hiruzen Sarutobi was steps ahead of him still. Sarutobi being able to handle the 1st, 2nd and Orochimaru while being confined in a space by the sound 4 is a testament to how powerful he was. Hiruzen also had keen senses, being able to track down the former Hokage under Hashirama Senju's Bringer-of-Darkness Technique. Enma commented on his battle with Orochimaru, saying that it was miserable compared to his prime, even though he had clearly been able to hold his own against Orochimaru and two former Hokage without losing his composure. He still had the skill and agility to place explosive tags on both the first and second hokage's legs at the same time. Knowing all the techniques of Konoha hes probably developed defences against them. Even in his old age, his chakra was noted for being very strong, causing a dense effect on the atmosphere when released furthermore, he was known for having immense reserves of chakra in his youth. People might say a person like Itachi would get him in a genjutsu. The 3rd being a student of the 1st and 2nd probably taught him how to counter the many Sharingan techniques. Hiruzen was also called The Professor (プロフェッサー, Purofessā), due to his mastery of all forms of shinobi combat, and his vast knowledge of techniques, purportedly knowing all the techniques within Konoha. He was admired as The God Of Shinobi and Only him and the Sage Of Six Paths share the nick name God Of Shinobi
You must be registered for see images

He was old and had very little chakra while fighting Orochimaru. One of the Anbu members mentioned that his primary fighting style was to fight with Shadow Clone just like Naruto but he had to reserve his chakra so he only brought 2. Using Rasengan or Chidori would have drained his chakra too much. It wouldn't be a smart thing to do. The only way was to seal both the Hokages. He was able to counter Tobirama and Hashirama in close combat, despite them being in their prime in the Summoning Impure World Reincarnation. Even when robbed of his sight from the genjutsu Bringer-of-Darkness Technique, he could still defend himself from Hashirama's and Tobirama's assaults, blocking all their attacks to prepare for his Dead Demon Consuming Seal. After summoning Enma, he could break Hashirama's Wood Release branches with ease. Even when someone as powerful as Danzo was dying he admitted that Hiruzen Sarutobi was steps ahead of him still. Strength, Speed and Stamina have all been hindered because of his old age. Sarutobi was said to have monsteres strength compared to the other Hokages. His strength would have most likely been and 4 because of being able to lift the heavy Enma pole at old age with some difficulty, Let's say in prime he could have lifted Enma with ease. Almost all the jounin's speed have a speed average of 4. His speed is very fast even in his old age. His prime would have been much faster but not as fast the 4th Hokage or Guy. I'd give him a 4.5 for being able to match speed evenly with Orochimaru at old age which means his peed back then mut have been a lot better.
His stamina was greatly decreased becuase of old age. But his chakra made a dense affect on the field. It was said his primary style to fight with was the shadow clone which he couldn't do too much or any other Konoha technique because of low chakra. As we all know Shadow Clone Jutsu requires a lot of chakra. To have his primary style be Shadow Clone must mean his Chakra back in old age must have been much higher. It would have been like Naruto without the Nine Tails. It would have been 4.
All the rest of the scores have a perfect 5 in Ninjutsu, Genjutsu and Taijutsu which is impressive considering his old age. In total his data book score would have been 37.5 surpassing both Itachi and Jiraiya who have 35.5 as the highest in the data book. Just IMO
 
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thegame

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Yes I have been saying this many times in threads. Hiruzen was the most skilled shinobi that ever lived, he might not have been the strongest, but he has been described as the most skilled.
 
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