Another plothole?

[Draxus]

Oh yay! Another "Another plot hole" thread

The original incarnation was already established when Tobi approached them.

 

[ltachl]

Not everything has to be revealed on the manga. Not everything has to be perfect. Can't they talk shit once in a while?

Tobi said to Konan "because you will die I wll tell you the truth...I am Madara".

Oops, Plot hole !

 

[TheWillofFire]

yea you guys are assuming just because those 3 thave "cloaks" they are now part of Akatsuki.
Akatsuki isn't created yet in those Flashbacks, the reveal will be later.

Akatsuki is an organization when it jumps from those 3 people to all the rest.

 

[Odemgee]

The movement started by yahiko which had hidden rain ninja in it was akatsuki. At the most, you can say that obito later manipulated and changed it, however the latest chapter does nothing to suggest obito had anything to do with the original organization like he told konan. However madara might have kept tabs on nagato so maybe he was the one who somehow spurred yahiko.

Nothing suggest that the Akatsuki was even formed yet at the time they met Obito in the last chapter either. Just because there wear cloaks doesn't mean anything. There in a village that rains quite often so that is more likely the reason they are wearing the cloaks. The headbands they are wearing doesn't mean that they wear Akatsuki at the time that's that just the symbol of Amegakure. Yahiko lead Akatsuki goal was to aid Nagato in bring peace to the world because or his rinnegan, and the only person that know anything about the full abilities of the rinnegan at that time was Obito that is why Nagato was so shocked when Obito mentioned that his mission was to correctly lead the one that awakens the rinnegan because at that point in time the rinnegan was seen as some type of urban legend. All we know about the beginning of the Akatsuki was that it was formed during the Third Ninja War which is the same war Obito got crushed in and learned everything from Madra and went on his mission to complete Madara's plan. There is no solid evidence that the Akatsuki was formed before that meeting in the last manga only assumptions.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

Nothing suggest that the Akatsuki was even formed yet at the time they met Obito in the last chapter either. Just because there wear cloaks doesn't mean anything. There in a village that rains quite often so that is more likely the reason they are wearing the cloaks. The headbands they are wearing doesn't mean that they wear Akatsuki at the time that's that just the symbol of Amegakure. Yahiko lead Akatsuki goal was to aid Nagato in bring peace to the world because or his rinnegan, and the only person that know anything about the full abilities of the rinnegan at that time was Obito that is why Nagato was so shocked when Obito mentioned that his mission was to correctly lead the one that awakens the rinnegan because at that point in time the rinnegan was seen as some type of urban legend. All we know about the beginning of the Akatsuki was that it was formed during the Third Ninja War which is the same war Obito got crushed in and learned everything from Madra and went on his mission to complete Madara's plan. There is no solid evidence that the Akatsuki was formed before that meeting in the last manga only assumptions.

Lol, but aren't you also assuming that Obito wasn't lying to Konan? If I apply your level of scrutiny then there really isn't any credible evidence that Obito wasn't. He could have just been messing with her head. We are both proceeding in this argument with the assumption that he wasn't, so don't try to claim that your not guilty of the same. Look, it's clear you won't be convinced. I have equally not been convinced by your reasoning given what has been revealed in the manga. People can look at both sides of our speculation if they don't think Tobi was making it up and make up their own mind.

 

[Hippy]

OT: she just remembered maybe, can you really remember 10 years maybe 15 years ago at an instant especially after both your friends died?

IMO:Who really gives a $h^t..

Why do people care..this reminds me of that kid from family guy named Niel from the AV club who tries to find spock's coffee cup in the background in star trek pausing every 2 seconds.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

OT: she just remembered maybe, can you really remember 10 years maybe 15 years ago at an instant especially after both your friends died?

IMO:Who really gives a $h^t..

Why do people care..this reminds me of that kid from family guy named Niel from the AV club who tries to find spock's coffee cup in the background in star trek pausing every 2 seconds.

It's a discussion forum and its fun. There are plenty of forum topics I don't care about but my indifference extends to not reading them and not commenting. You should give it a try.

 

[Sentinelsgalore]

Lol, but aren't you also assuming that Obito wasn't lying to Konan? If I apply your level of scrutiny then there really isn't any credible evidence that Obito wasn't. He could have just been messing with her head. We are both proceeding in this argument with the assumption that he wasn't, so don't try to claim that your not guilty of the same. Look, it's clear you won't be convinced. I have equally not been convinced by your reasoning given what has been revealed in the manga. People can look at both sides of our speculation if they don't think Tobi was making it up and make up their own mind.

Regardless of whether akatsuki was set up before or after Obito approached them, Obito was spurring on all three of them to complete the moons eye plan. Therefore, Konana should have known that Obito approached them, its not something you easily forget.

 

[Floydical]

Lol, but aren't you also assuming that Obito wasn't lying to Konan? If I apply your level of scrutiny then there really isn't any credible evidence that Obito wasn't. He could have just been messing with her head. We are both proceeding in this argument with the assumption that he wasn't, so don't try to claim that your not guilty of the same. Look, it's clear you won't be convinced. I have equally not been convinced by your reasoning given what has been revealed in the manga. People can look at both sides of our speculation if they don't think Tobi was making it up and make up their own mind.

I have to admit that the manga does seem to imply that this meeting took place after the original Akatsuki was formed, but it is simply not confirmed for reasons already stated. I still feel that its possible the organization was formed perhaps a year later, but again we can't confirm it either way.

As to the original topic on hand, its possible that Konan figured out that Tobi was lying on both parts, after he said it, and was simply shocked initially. She probably realized that for what he said to be true, he must have met and talked to Yahiko at least once before that first meeting. This would have obviously been illogical since Yahiko acted the way he did when Obito first met them, there was no way they met before. So again, I think we can still go either way whether Obito actually spurred Yahiko to form the organization or not, but when it comes to Konan's shock, it was likely because she was trying to comprehend a way for what Tobi stated to be true; then soon realized he had to be lying.

My only last concern to defend my earlier post is why Obito would flat out lie about this? We know he was only half lying about the Rinnegan, since Madara did actually give Nagato the Rinnegan, but if Yahiko actually did form Akatsuki, than this is a total lie on Obito's part. I would just like to believe that there is at least some truth to this statement as well, considering the level of truth to the Rinnegan statement and situation in which he stated these things.

 

[TheWillofFire]

Tobi wasn't lying to Konan
He was really mocking her with what he thinks he "helped" create peace. But Konan is simply shocked because she knows there is no way they ended up being pawns for Madara.

 

[Whiteknight]

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Why was Konana shocked that Tobi said he encouraged Yahiko to form akatsuki when he approached all three of them to start akatsuki?

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Good catch. Of course, I don't know whether this was an issue with the translation or if Kishi honestly forgot about what Konan and Obito talked about. That chapter was less than two years ago, so it's weird that he's forgotten about it.

So yes, if this isn't a translation error it's definitely a plot hole. It's relatively small compared to some of the other things that have happened recently, but it's still a real plot hole.

 

[TheWillofFire]

Good catch. Of course, I don't know whether this was an issue with the translation or if Kishi honestly forgot about what Konan and Obito talked about. That chapter was less than two years ago, so it's weird that he's forgotten about it.

So yes, if this isn't a translation error it's definitely a plot hole. It's relatively small compared to some of the other things that have happened recently, but it's still a real plot hole.

It's neither a plot hole or a mistake. Obito did spur Yahiko to form akatsuki in his "mind" just as he gave Nagato the rinnegan in his "mind"

 

[Sentinelsgalore]

It's neither a plot hole or a mistake. Obito did spur Yahiko to form akatsuki in his "mind" just as he gave Nagato the rinnegan in his "mind"

Yes he did, but why couldn't Konan use simple logic and remember that Obito approached all three of them and therefore spurred Yahiko to start akatsuki. Its is a plothole.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

It's neither a plot hole or a mistake. Obito did spur Yahiko to form akatsuki in his "mind" just as he gave Nagato the rinnegan in his "mind"

Yeah, I think I know where you're heading with that but that get's us way off immediate topic.

 

[TheWillofFire]

Well all I am saying is, do not start labeling these things as "plot holes" we were barely just given the flashback when they approach the trio, I am sure there will be more flashbacks for when Nagato approaches Tobi again or something, just let it roll out, give it a chance before labeling it a plot hole

 

[TheWillofFire]

Yes he did, but why couldn't Konan use simple logic and remember that Obito approached all three of them and therefore spurred Yahiko to start akatsuki. Its is a plothole.

There isn't any flashbacks yet of how Obito approached Yahiko about Akatsuki, that flashback told us NOTHING on akatsuki. so Konan can still be surprised if later tobi claims he was the start of everything, when she is thinking it was all Yahiko in her mind. Just as Nagato awakened the Rinnegan in her mind. lol

 

[Tartarus]

Yes he did, but why couldn't Konan use simple logic and remember that Obito approached all three of them and therefore spurred Yahiko to start akatsuki. Its is a plothole.

Well sh1t, I guess people being startled when they are told shocking things is such a plot hole, then I if some guy came up and lied to me and said he was my long lost cousin and I got startled I guess my life had a plot hole.

 

[Sentinelsgalore]

Well sh1t, I guess people being startled when they are told shocking things is such a plot hole, then I if some guy came up and lied to me and said he was my long lost cousin and I got startled I guess my life had a plot hole.

Thats the point, she has no reason to be shocked she was there.

 

[SakuraCherryBlossom]

Because she though that Yahiko didn't accept. But maybe he secretly worked with Obito and didn't tell Konan or Nagato because Obito said not to trust them. So to Konan, it came by surprise when Obito said that.... sometimes you have to look deeper into something to figure out that it's NOT a plothole.

 

[thegame]

2 possibilities.

1. Cause Akatsuki started before the first time Yahiko met Obito.

2. Cause Yahiko died shortly after, and she thought that the first time Nagato went back to the place they met, was after Yahikos death. So Obito saying this, would mean that Yahiko went there on his own behind Konan and Nagatos back.