Analysis of Space-Time Migration

saaaaaadpanda

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Space-Time Migration

How It Works:
Tobi's Space-Time Migration (STM) is a space-time technique that warps Tobi and or anything Tobi is touching to another dimension.

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Figure 1.

Figure 1: While Tobi is using STM, (1.) his body remains visible in the real world, "Dimension A", but (2.) his physical body is located in the alternate dimension, "Dimension B".

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Figure 2.

Figure 2: When Tobi is attacked, in this case by rasengan, (1.) the attack will pass through his intangible form in Dimension A, while (2.) his physical body remains untouched in Dimension B. Thus, (3.) when Tobi returns to Dimension A he will be unharmed.

Example:
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Figure 3.

Figure 3: When Tobi is attacked and (1.) the attack is warped using Kamui, both (2.) Tobi and the attack exist in the same space with relation to one another in Dimension B. Therefore, (3.) Tobi is injured when he returns to Dimension A.

Example:
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The Issue With How it Works: Parallel Dimensions or Not?
As discussed in Figure 3. of "How it Works", even when two bodies are transported to the alternate dimension by different jutsu and users, the bodies are transported in proportional location with relation to one another. This suggests that the alternate dimension parallel to the real world: it is equivalent in size and lay out to that of the real world. Otherwise, separate entities would not be located in the same configuration to one another in the alternate dimension.

However, if we look at the alternate dimension itself, it has a surreal layout:
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that is not in the same configuration as the real world land where the transportation took place:
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Additionally, when reappearing, Tobi doesn't reappear in the same location as where he initially warped:
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This means that the alternate dimension does not have an exact spacial parallelism to the real world, so it appears we have contradiction.

Conclusions:
  1. STM (and Kamui) warp to an alternate dimension in spatial relation to the real world.
  2. When using STM, Tobi has a physical presence in the alternate dimension.
  3. The alternate dimension does not have an exact parallel structure to the real world, in contradiction to what is expected.
  4. Objects and people located in the alternate dimension do not necessarily remain in the same location with respect to where they were originally stored. Tobi has control over where objects are stored and transported.
    [*]Future "Kamui warped attacks" as featured in chapter 596 will no longer work as Tobi can warp to an different, unpredictable location within the alternate dimension. This means Kakashi can no longer warp attacks to the location of Tobi's physical body.
 

endo

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This.....is.....Epic!
 

GRAFINATOR

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Imagine if Kakashi sent a B+Naruto/Kurama TBB to the alternate dimension? Can that dimension but destroyed and rendered useless? Kishi has been creating way more questions than he has been answering lately
 

Kettei

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Nice analysis.
 

Q of the Sharingan

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For your last point. I think that Tobi can control where his body or things he absorbs are in the alternate dimension when the swirling animation is present. This makes since because when he teleports the swirling is present. So while just partially transporting himself into dimension B (intangibility), his body will be relative to the dimension A location with him not having any control over it.

Overall good analysis. +rep Edit: nevermind I have to spread some rep around. I swear it has been a while since I last repped you though XD
 

LiirKo

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Awesome analysis, probably the best one here on base about S/T jutsu. +rep
 

realobito1

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For your last point. I think that Tobi can control where his body or things he absorbs are in the alternate dimension when the swirling animation is present. This makes since because when he teleports the swirling is present. So while just partially transporting himself into dimension B (intangibility), his body will be relative to the dimension A location with him not having any control over it.

Overall good analysis. +rep Edit: nevermind I have to spread some rep around. I swear it has been a while since I last repped you though XD
This guy has a good analysis him self. I don't see what diff it makes though as kakashi has done three kammui plus other jutsu how many more could he have in him. I dotn think kakashi falls into the realm of low chakra and stamina anymore. SHika is their all by himself now :cool:
 

diablo646260

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+rep to you panda ...apparently you have an apple for the teacher bc someone has been doing his homework!! U DA MAN!!!!
 

Q of the Sharingan

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This guy has a good analysis him self. I don't see what diff it makes though as kakashi has done three kammui plus other jutsu how many more could he have in him. I dotn think kakashi falls into the realm of low chakra and stamina anymore. SHika is their all by himself now :cool:
:nohug:
Poor Shikamaru. I think Kakashi only has one more Kamui left in him. That is why he tested out his idea with just Naruto's rasengan. It is relatively small so it wouldn't have taken too much out of Kakashi to warp. If they used a larger, more powerful jutsu and it didn't work, then Kakashi probably would have been done for in the rest of the fight.
 

endo

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Actually I have some doubts. It couldn`t have been that. Kakashi has a different dimension. If, according to your theory, Tobi was still intangible, then he would have been hit. But as shown here he gets hit during the time he`s tangible not when he`s intangible. This is because Kakashi sent it to another dimension and sent it back when Tobi became tangible as tobi hints here:
 

Q of the Sharingan

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Actually I have some doubts. It couldn`t have been that. Kakashi has a different dimension. If, according to your theory, Tobi was still intangible, then he would have been hit. But as shown here he gets hit during the time he`s tangible not when he`s intangible. This is because Kakashi sent it to another dimension and sent it back when Tobi became tangible as tobi hints here:

His body is probably hit in the other dimension so he doesn't feel the effects until he returns it to the original one. Kakashi has never been shown to be able to pull things out of the other dimension.
 

endo

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His body is probably hit in the other dimension so he doesn't feel the effects until he returns it to the original one. Kakashi has never been shown to be able to pull things out of the other dimension.

That`s possible But why did Tobi mention that Kakashi has the ability to make things appear and disappear? I think he was referring to what I was talking about
 

Waltz

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Stages of Tobi's Dimensions

I just realized something.

Tobi warped Sasuke and karin to this place:

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but then again, shortly before he warped Torune and Fuu into another dimension. Which means there's more than one!

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Rasengan's hit

Its clear that naruto rasengan took time to hit tobi. now if their was only 1 dimension (the one sasuke and karin are in) and kakashi warped it just before it hit tobi's face...he should've gotten hit in the face,

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but instead he got hit on the shoulder opposite to the rasengan.

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Now my theory is this:

When tobi uses his ninjutsu..he goes through different stages of dimensions before he materializes again.

Dimension 3 -> Dimension 2 -> Dimension 1 -> Materializes in reality

Kakashi's kamui transports object to the dimension closest to reality (dimension 1) therefore when tobi gets there the attack will be waiting in a sense.

but this takes time moving through dimensions so he dosent get the attack instantaneously..and the longer he takes to get to Dimension 1 from Dimension 3 the jutsu (Kunai/Rasengan) is continuing its course in that dimension.

This means that when tobi gets there he may get the attack elsewhere. as in the example above.

The dimension tobi uses to fight..isnt the one he warped sasuke to...if he used that walking around too much would mean that he'd fall off the cuboids in that dimension. so there must be another/others. The manga only accounts for 2 though:

Were he warped sasuke and karin
Where he warped fuu and tourne
 
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orochimaru

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Re: Stages of Tobi's Dimensions

very plausible ...i like it too, +rep
 
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MWQ

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Re: Stages of Tobi's Dimensions

Hmm................makes sense bro rep+!!!
 

zzsdkzz

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Re: Stages of Tobi's Dimensions

I believe when kakashi kamui'd the rasengan, it stays where it was absorbed. Tobi was flying at naruto, leaving forward with his left arm. Naturally this twists your body, more specifically, your right shoulder goes behind you. I think when tobis right arm transversed the area where rasengan was, it detonated.
 
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