[Discussion] An obvious behaviour that some Sasuke fanboys can't see

[Mr Hiru]

Sasuke lost all his connection to Shizen Energy, from the moment Itachi stripped the Curse Mark powers from him.

Some weeks ago I was arguing, how was it possible that Sasuke had control over the Curse Mark again in his Susano'o? I was kind of blind, since I thought Kishimoto did an asspull, in contradiction to the previous event... but after putting attention with care, and there was the answer for my questioning...

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From the moment Sasuke stopped using Juugo as a connection between his Susano'o and Juugo's Curse Mark, he couldn't keep handling the remaining shizen energy in the Susano'o, or retain it in his own body for later use, even when the Shizen Energy and the Susano'o chakra was already mixed.

This is a clear behaviour. This means that Juugo was not only supplying the power of the Curse Mark, but he was controlling it as well.

--- And that's all. This lend to the conclusion that Orochimaru modified Sasuke's properties with the curse Mark. Probably Yang influenced DNA to handle that Natural Energy.

Note: For those who think if this is obvious... I'd like to ask if you read the title of this thread before stating what you say :]

 

[-immortal-]

The Most already Knew this tho.

 

[Gatsuuga]

Sasuke isn't displaying any of the classic signs of Cursed seal activation - no darkening of his skin nor extrended tattoo like affect. Therefore I came to the same conclusion as you, that juugo had become so adept that he can control the nature energy. Considering he is the only person in his clan to ever control it he should get mad props, he can basically turn his body into what ever the hell he wants whilst maintaining a level head - that's crazy. It's really a massive achievement for his character that gets practically no recognition, shame really.

I made a thread about it when that chapter came out but it got like 5 comments.....everyone was to busy going 'ahhhh new susanoo solos all'.

 

[3MESSIAH]

yeah this is only logical

 

[Mr Hiru]

The Most already Knew this tho.

Did you read the title of the thread? I know it's obvious, but some people can't see through the obvious.

Sasuke isn't displaying any of the classic signs of Cursed seal activation - no darkening of his skin nor extrended tattoo like affect. Therefore I came to the same conclusion as you, that juugo had become so adept that he can control the nature energy. Considering he is the only person in his clan to ever control it he should get mad props, he can basically turn his body into what ever the hell he wants whilst maintaining a level head - that's crazy. It's really a massive achievement for his character that gets practically no recognition, shame really.

I made a thread about it when that chapter came out but it got like 5 comments.....everyone was to busy going 'ahhhh new susanoo solos all'.

If that's the case, I know your feel bro. It happened to me before with other topics. And now I feel relief, Kishimoto didn't lose the head after all.

 

[Naruto.]

Sasuke isn't displaying any of the classic signs of Cursed seal activation - no darkening of his skin nor extrended tattoo like affect. Therefore I came to the same conclusion as you, that juugo had become so adept that he can control the nature energy. Considering he is the only person in his clan to ever control it he should get mad props, he can basically turn his body into what ever the hell he wants whilst maintaining a level head - that's crazy. It's really a massive achievement for his character that gets practically no recognition, shame really.

I made a thread about it when that chapter came out but it got like 5 comments.....everyone was to busy going 'ahhhh new susanoo solos all'.

Basically this.
OT: I agree with your thread.

 

[ANiMUS]

Sasuke lost all his connection to Shizen Energy, from the moment Itachi stripped the Curse Mark powers from him.

Some weeks ago I was arguing, how was it possible that Sasuke had control over the Curse Mark again in his Susano'o? I was kind of blind, since I thought Kishimoto did an asspull, in contradiction to the previous event... but after putting attention with care, and there was the answer for my questioning...

You must be registered for see images

From the moment Sasuke stopped using Juugo as a connection between his Susano'o and Juugo's Curse Mark, he couldn't keep handling the remaining shizen energy in the Susano'o, or retain it in his own body for later use, even when the Shizen Energy and the Susano'o chakra was already mixed.

This is a clear behaviour. This means that Juugo was not only supplying the power of the Curse Mark, but he was controlling it as well.

--- And that's all. This lend to the conclusion that Orochimaru modified Sasuke's properties with the curse Mark. Probably Yang influenced DNA to handle that Natural Energy.

Note: For those who think if this is obvious... I'd like to ask if you read the title of this thread before stating what you say :]

According to Orochi Sasuke naturally adapted to the curse mark after receiving it rather quickly might I add. Proof that Sasuke's chakra was tainted by the curse mark can be seen in the color. The color of Sasuke's chakra currently is the same colt as the chakra that was released from the Cursemark.

Anyway, Juugo actually noted something about Sasuke's susano'o, though I don't know what that is. Sasuke has not only Juugo's cells, which is the same way Kabuto gained the ability of passively absorbing natural energy (of course Kabuto used blood)
Still, even though these cells SEEM passive at the moment doesn't mean they always will be. For the sake of plot Kishi can use this card at any moment and use an excuse like, "they have been steadily absorbing NE to reach the level of CM" or whatever stimuli needed to be met.

Regardless, Sasuke having CM again is possible, but it wouldn't originate from Orochi, but from Juugo, and with Juugo's cells NO RECOIL.
Juugo was the one sustaining the CM, but that doesn't mean it's off the table.

 

[Mr Hiru]

According to Orochi Sasuke naturally adapted to the curse mark after receiving it rather quickly might I add. Proof that Sasuke's chakra was tainted by the curse mark can be seen in the color. The color of Sasuke's chakra currently is the same colt as the chakra that was released from the Cursemark.

Anyway, Juugo actually noted something about Sasuke's susano'o, though I don't know what that is. Sasuke has not only Juugo's cells, which is the same way Kabuto gained the ability of passively absorbing natural energy (of course Kabuto used blood)
Still, even though these cells SEEM passive at the moment doesn't mean they always will be. For the sake of plot Kishi can use this card at any moment and use an excuse like, "they have been steadily absorbing NE to reach the level of CM" or whatever stimuli needed to be met.

Regardless, Sasuke having CM again is possible, but it wouldn't originate from Orochi, but from Juugo, and with Juugo's cells NO RECOIL.

No doubt your reasoning is sound. I agree Sasuke has the potential to regain control over CM once Orochimaru or Juugo gives him the proper seal enabling him for the use of Natural Energy.

We also can't discard the fact that Sasuke holds part of Juugo's DNA for Natural Energy absorption, so Sasuke is already half way there.

Still, Sasuke needs the capacity of control over that energy again. I'm sure the Curse Mark seal had something to do with it, and logically it could be at DNA level.

 

[ANiMUS]

No doubt your reasoning is sound. I agree Sasuke has the potential to regain control over CM once Orochimaru or Juugo gives him the proper seal enabling him for the use of Natural Energy.

We also can't discard the fact that Sasuke holds part of Juugo's DNA for Natural Energy absorption, so Sasuke is already half way there.

Still, Sasuke needs the capacity of control over that energy again. I'm sure the Curse Mark seal had something to do with it, and logically it could be at DNA level.

No balance needed for curse seal, because it has similar affects to the SM transformation, we can assume that the energies are not in balance. Remember, if you don't keep your energy balanced you turn into a toad.

Well, Juugo 's ability originates from RYUUCHIDOU meaning that the person would probably turn to a dragon. The only thing is Juugo's ability keeps him from becoming 100% one with nature, but the dragonesque appearance of CM users attest to the imbalance.

 

[Everztar]

Juugo controlling that Sage Mode
Naruto giving that Chakra

somehow... it feels like Sasuke is just a puppet lol.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Sasuke isn't displaying any of the classic signs of Cursed seal activation - no darkening of his skin nor extrended tattoo like affect. Therefore I came to the same conclusion as you, that juugo had become so adept that he can control the nature energy. Considering he is the only person in his clan to ever control it he should get mad props, he can basically turn his body into what ever the hell he wants whilst maintaining a level head - that's crazy. It's really a massive achievement for his character that gets practically no recognition, shame really.

I made a thread about it when that chapter came out but it got like 5 comments.....everyone was to busy going 'ahhhh new susanoo solos all'.

Yeah, no. That's the thing about being bipolar, it's sporadic and Juugo doesn't always go crazy. We've seen Juugo use his powers without losing it before, such as when they fought Kirabi or the initial clash against the Fourth Raikage, before he went Version 2. What I'm saying is, it's wrong to assume that Juugo can now use his powers with a level-head.

 

[Mr Hiru]

No balance needed for curse seal, because it has similar affects to the SM transformation, we can assume that the energies are not in balance. Remember, if you don't keep your energy balanced you turn into a toad.

Well, Juugo 's ability originates from RYUUCHIDOU meaning that the person would probably turn to a dragon. The only thing is Juugo's ability keeps him from becoming 100% one with nature, but the dragonesque appearance of CM users attest to the imbalance.

I see what you're saying, actually.

The reason of why Naruto is considered a master of Toad Sage Mode is precisely his superior ability controlling the shizen energy so it's doesn't take over his own body (that, and the fact that for him it is easier to handle that kind of energy due his high chakra reserves). But that's only for Sage Mode, and the point of the thread talks about the Curse Mark.

Henceforth, I came to the conclusion that Sasuke is still not able to control the Curse Mark powers in his current state and that the one who did the job this time was Juugo, and the hint was there: Sasuke has Juugo DNA. Why didn't he absorb Juugo's Shizen Energy if he mets the physical requirements for this purpose? And the answer was easy: He still lacks control. Even if his DNA can absorb naturally shizen energy, Sasuke can't do this consciously as Juugo seems to do. "Passive" mode as you call it.

PS: I can note this is your field of expertice. I'm glad I came to this conclusion, and thanks for sharing what you have studied about the scheme. I'll be expecting your theory.

 

[Ultimate Sage Naruto]

Juugo controlling that Sage Mode
Naruto giving that Chakra

somehow... it feels like Sasuke is just a puppet lol.

Best answer Very Agree :heh:

 

[Naijakid]

Thanks for that clarification

 

[Gyakusetsu]

This is Sasuke's genius. His understanding and ability to manipulate chakra. The guy managed to adapt Susano O's armor to Kurama by hearing a description from Hashirama........ That's scary when you consider it.

 

[Mr Hiru]

This is Sasuke's genius. His understanding and ability to manipulate chakra. The guy managed to adapt Susano O's armor to Kurama by hearing a description from Hashirama........ That's scary when you consider it.

I'd understand if everything were theorical... But that's not the case. In Narutoverse, the manipulation of shizen energy is learned with the body itself.

Shape manipulation is a basic method taught to genin level shinobi, that's how Sasuke managed to give shape to his Susano'o. Shizen energy is another thing... you can't learn that just with 'genius'. Why did Orochimaru fail to reach Ryuuchidou Sage Mode, even if he was called a genius in his early times?

I think my answer explains it well... he lacks the body. In the case of Sasuke, he just learned about the existence of Sage Mode with Kabuto. I doubt a goofy explanation by Naruto could give him the key to magically learn sage mode, that's not a genius thing, that's an asspull. BUT he could re-awake the Curse Mark with the proper preparation, that's very logical.

In the other hand, Juugo has been his entire life fighting to learn this control. Juugo is a logical answer.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

Don't misunderstand I am not suggesting that genius allowed him to perform the action personally but that it allows him to piece together those things necessary to achieve the needed results. Here is another example.

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As for Sasuke enveloping Kurama in Susano O it seemed to impress the God of Shinobi so how else should we interpret the feat?

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[Mr Hiru]

Don't misunderstand I am not suggesting that genius allowed him to perform the action personally but that it allows him to piece together those things necessary to achieve the needed results. Here is another example.

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I know what you're trying to say. Sadly, Reverse Engineering is still theorical and in this case Sasuke succeeded on "knowledge" (the one who did the job of handling the curse mark was Juugo in your picture, his hand in hermit mode was not pure ornament). Shizen Energy is another story. We need to see Sasuke handling Shizen Energy by himself and without help.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

I know what you're trying to say. Sadly, Reverse Engineering is still theorical and in this case Sasuke succeeded on "knowledge" (the one who did the job of handling the curse mark was Juugo in your picture, his hand in hermit mode was not pure ornament). Shizen Energy is another story. We need to see Sasuke handling Shizen Energy by himself and without help.

Lol, yes I know that is Juugo. Once again if the end result is accomplished per Sasuke's desires it really doesn't matter. He has the tools necessary and I include Naruto in that equation. It reminds me of the movie Hero. Emperor: "How will you kill me? You have no sword." Nameless: "I will use the sword you're wearing.". So as long as there are those with the ability that Sasuke can control then Sasuke really doesn't need the ability himself.

 

[osba]

good explanation ^.^

Lol, yes I know that is Juugo. Once again if the end result is accomplished per Sasuke's desires it really doesn't matter. He has the tools necessary and I include Naruto in that equation. It reminds me of the movie Hero. Emperor: "How will you kill me? You have no sword." Nameless: "I will use the sword you're wearing.". So as long as there are those with the ability that Sasuke can control then Sasuke really doesn't need the ability himself.

the same can be said about naruto.. he "controlls" the shinobi alliance