sephirothh
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Hey,
heres the translation of a post on a french naruto forum, relating all the discussions between Tobi and Zetsu
I translated it with Google, so sometimes it can be weird, but still very interesting. It shows that Tobi "has" to be old, and cannot be Obito, I think.
------------------------------------------------------
Zetsu-lying valley of the end and witnessed the battle Naruto vs Sasuke.
Nice symbol: Izuna who could be in the exact spot where his brother had fought for him. Indeed, why not showing us rather than Tobi Zetsu?
- After the death of Sasori, Tobi and Zetsu Tobi begin their short game is going to participate in the capture of biju with deidara.
-Zetsu said that "only sadness is with us and we can only rely on ourselves," Kakuzu and Hidan in front.
This may reflect the fact that 'Izuna is sad about the death of his brother. Given the past Madara, after his own death, he believes that one should rely on its own strength, not a family, a clan.
Front-Pain and Konan, Tobi said, "Everything will return to its original form"
There, one can say that he wants to talk about juubi reform, but also the peace achieved by the RS, his father. Tobi still live in the past and would do anything to re-establish the peace, in the same way as the RS, that is to say by becoming the Juubi jin.
"I get it back the true power of sharingan, my power, that of Uchiha Madara. "
With the latest evidence we have the true power of sharingan can only be the Rinnegan. Here he speaks as madara since madara is in the eyes of nagato and konan.
Itachi vs. Sasuke-Combat. Here are the lyrics to Black Zetsu:
"Are you sure? "Zetsu to white on the possible defeat of Sasuke because of the lunar mysteries.
"The sharingan is a weapon like any other, the strength of the weapon depends on who holds it."
"With any luck we will see the celestial light. "
"The techniques of illusion will come to nothing, now that Sasuke broke the lunar mysteries, useless to continue the fight."
"As the power of his left eye has the most powerful genjutsu, it is claimed that his right eye has the ultimate physical attack. "
"In this technique the user must look at the target he wants to burn, then just aim well to the black flames gush. "
"Sasuke will enjoy the warmth of black flames to use the jutsu Raiton. "
"Oh but it's ..." Seeing the Susanoo.
"The sword of Totsuka, a sword capable of sealing the souls, it is said that trap everyone she pierces in an eternal illusion like a dream. "
"It's called Susanoo, it seems that this technique is very risky for the user. "
"This is another sacred weapon, it is the mirror of Yata, able to block everything. Once associated with Totsuka, he is invincible. "
Seen all the comments related to the sharingan, MS, and weapons-related Susanoo, I find it normal that the black Zetsu is Izuna, a former owner of MS. In any case, these words mean that black Zetsu is an uchiha. Just make your deductions, but such knowledge, while white ignores many things on the sharingan, does not make me doubt about the origins of Zetsu.
Another thing from the Black Zetsu:
"he's like his favorite animal, he has the toughness of the snake. "
Speaking of oro. So good, Zetsu knew Orochimaru in the Akatsuki. But I go further with my theory, like what orochimaru has only to appropriate the technique of immortality tobi. He had the ability through tenacity innate in him. Hence the word of Zetsu.
The after-battle
Tobi exchange of votes, the White Zetsu could explain this change of voice. But for the copying of DNA walk, he must come into contact with the ninja he wants to copy. Here, it is not the case. So I depend on various occasions when Orochimaru imitated the voice of the people he had the body. Here is the same for Tobi.
Black Zetsu: "We recorded everything. "
On my view, Zetsu could have a sharingan that would allow it to register and view the recording. (Eg Itachi tells the story of his sharingan madara through, this may be something similar)
-Conversation with Sasuke.
He is preparing to drop the mask as madara.
It can show the face of Madara since he has in its array of body.
Tobi speaks of the war between clans, Uchihas, the senjus, Madara, Izuna and that on the fingertips.
One might think that Madara has sent all the info to Tobi. But I have the impression that Tobi tells of the events he has experienced. Anyway, my theory reinforces this feeling.
His hand is contracted by talking about Izuna and his sacrifice, There, this is normal because Izuna is actually alive since it's Zetsu.
"But peace was short. "
When he talks about the formation of Konoha. It is perhaps qu'anodin, but when Tobi speaks of peace, we feel just as involved in his words, that it touches. When learning plan, it makes sense. But it's a little trick I had not seen.
He omits to say that it was he who attacked Konoha with Kyuubi.
He even says that Itachi lied about it.
This lie suits him well because he should not think that sasuke was behind everything. Tobi is indeed obliged to speak of what ensued after the attack Kyubi to Sasuke that nourished a deep hatred for Konoha. Anyway, I think that very soon the truth will be revealed through Oro ...
"You want to have his eyes? "
Very clever approach Tobi. With a simple question, it seeks to encourage Sasuke to graft the eyes of his brother. He has his way with a little patience. In reaching this stage, it seeks to evolve the sharingan of Sasuke Rinnegan.
-Tobi reveals his face to Kisame, an organization with Taka.
"Sorry to have lied knowing that it is you who are to me the most loyal. "
There, Tobi shows his face to Kisame, it recognizes it as Madara and Mizukage-sama. Knowing that Tobi was introduced to him as Madara and controlling Yagura. It may be that the same person for the face of Tobi was identified by the shark. So no intermediate Tobi.
Tobi Kubikiri Bocho blocks with his arm.
There you can find various explanations with the ability of zetsus ... but the solution could be copying the jutsu of Kakuzu Doton hardening via sharingan.
"The demons are monsters tails chakra, the first hokage had gathered some under his control. Every ninja war, he scattered around the world starting with the five great nations to balance the forces. He used it to build peace process and agreements. "
Interesting words here, we see that Hashirama did not have all Bijus hence the fact that the brothers kin / gin and madara could get their hands on him while Kurama was released. Finally, what interests us is the precise knowledge of Tobi. You may say that the lag of Madara ... Possible. But why would madara dwelt on so many details about the distribution of demons, the story of balance of power? This knowledge of the ninja world leads me to the conclusion that Tobi is old. Once again, Tobi accentuates the notion that peace is dear to him.
Tobi and Zetsu-Conversation
Zetsu: "So? "
Tobi: "Everything went well"
"Delighted to hear that. "
"Not forgetting that Itachi is dead, this time no one I put sticks in the wheels. The promise not to touch Konoha has no value. "
You do not learn much, just until the death of Itachi, the machine will be launched with Nagato. Itachi holding back the implementation of its plan. Since the death of itachi, tobi was one which shows more often, which is not afraid to reveal himself. Was he looking to leave Itachi indeed in the dark and so continue to believe that he was madara?
Zetsu: "From the time you're waiting for that! "
Zetsu's remark made me immediately think that Tobi before Kushina said that he was waiting for this moment for a long time. Connected together, it is undeniable that Tobi is a person of a certain age, some experience.
Tobi: "I was only able to follow the agreed plan. It's just as well. "
"Itachi mistakenly thought that we never could discover the truth in regard to itself, does not it? This was his biggest mistake. "
"It's not so much that I know nothing about him, but I rallied to my cause Sasuke. "
Tobi right there about the good progress of the plan, but says that Zetsu shows that he and / or Tobi could know this case (there, that's normal), but Itachi did not think they knew so much about the massacre, the ins and outs. I find this non-negligible. This suggests that at least Tobi was at the heart of that history and participated in the massacre, he was pulling the strings maybe.
-Again with Kisame and Zetsu.
Tobi: "We'll have to recruit other members to activate the statue of the heretic. "
Kisame: "What do you do? "
"I have two, three things to fix. "
It was clearly one of the intentions is to recruit Tobi that Sasuke, after it has completed loading of killer bee. One might also think that one of the things he needs to address, is his discussion with Naruto. But I do not see how it would solve anything? He seeks to perpetuate the conflict uchiha / senju?
-Towards the top of Kage
Black Zetsu: "Everything looks good, it seems. "
Tobi: "No, I do not think Nagato could use this technique as the reincarnation of souls. Actually, I did not expect at all. He betrayed me. It should not be making the same mistake with Sasuke. I have to keep control over him. Even if it becomes more powerful than Nagato, this would be pointless if it does not obey. For now, I will observe what is. "
It was of course a Zetsu into confidence, aware of the intentions of Tobi. One of them is to use Sasuke, certainly for the Rinnegan that he could develop. We see a parallel between Sasuke and Nagato fact, that both of them, Tobi tries to control it. The last sentence of Tobi accentuates the fact that the ninja is patient, wait, and do not try to launch itself into something that does not really require.
Zetsu: "You had considered the possibility that Naruto can defeat nagato? "
"I had not excluded, but it's true that it was not my favorite scenario, you're in doubt well. Naruto Uzumaki, this kid has managed to thwart my plan. "
"What you are doing? It takes action? "
"Yes, it's time to make the eye of the moon. "
Well there not much to stress, we see just that Tobi had planned many things, and had considered several possible scenarios. This is a great tactician, and I think it's fine to a man with long experience. We find the term "kid", who punctuates the work of Kishi when one pays attention. For me it is quite possible that Tobi has an age difference of a few decades at least with Naruto.
-Interview with Naruto, Kakashi and Yamato
"I expected Kakashi, the owner of the sharingan, you're fast. "
Simple observation of Tobi, on the other hand, nothing can be said that either Obito or anyone else with this one sentence. But when we connected it to the recent words of Tobi, it's still in continuity that Tobi 'may' know Kakashi. Except that Tobi is Madara and not person. So the words are blurred.
"Right now, I just want to discuss. "[...]" Nagato How did he become a traitor, Naruto, you have me curious. "
Tobi quickly comes to the fact, his big question is how Nagato was able to betray him. It was not planned in his plans, and therefore does not understand the persuasive power of Naruto that rivals his own, which even surpasses. He tries to get a response from Naruto. His behavior is consistent with an inveterate manipulator who can not stand that we can bring a different answer to his, to his own vision. His vision is the only valid, the most truthful.
"In the past, the Rikudo sennin preached the way of the ninja, and tried to lead the world toward peace, but before completing his dream, his time came. "Then history on his son and their descendants.
I thought the RS was its successful peace project, but apparently it was not completely succeeded! These words are to be confirmed ... Then I find once again the knowledge of the period from Tobi RS, the two families made thereunder, how hatred appeared, attributes that are both son of RS, their ideals, too pointed to it being a ninja who has only received a single instruction. Then, despite having received the neseignement Madara, even this famous ninja should not be born to know that time and its protagonists.
"It is only the second time I see you, but I know that you possess the will of fire senjus. I can see the first hokage in you. "
Ok, masquerading as Tobi Madara, but why does he say that?! He must have known Hashirama in his lifetime and even though it plays a role? Another phrase that makes me say that Tobi is an old rascal.
"You think you can change Sasuke as nagato is just as selfish, Naruto. "
I feel that sees Tobi's impact on Naruto Pain as one of his manipulations. Finally, this is what I understand with what it means selfish.
"To manipulate someone, we must be able to control the darkness of his prey. "
Here he gives his approach. Well, that does not offer us clues to his identity. But at least we know that this is someone who takes pleasure in the use of hate. He does it brilliantly well, that ease is just me reinforce the fact that it is experienced, he knows human nature. This resembles the handling of Oro on Kimimaro, Sasuke ... but in a smaller extent. Tobi is much better in the field.
heres the translation of a post on a french naruto forum, relating all the discussions between Tobi and Zetsu
I translated it with Google, so sometimes it can be weird, but still very interesting. It shows that Tobi "has" to be old, and cannot be Obito, I think.
------------------------------------------------------
Zetsu-lying valley of the end and witnessed the battle Naruto vs Sasuke.
Nice symbol: Izuna who could be in the exact spot where his brother had fought for him. Indeed, why not showing us rather than Tobi Zetsu?
- After the death of Sasori, Tobi and Zetsu Tobi begin their short game is going to participate in the capture of biju with deidara.
-Zetsu said that "only sadness is with us and we can only rely on ourselves," Kakuzu and Hidan in front.
This may reflect the fact that 'Izuna is sad about the death of his brother. Given the past Madara, after his own death, he believes that one should rely on its own strength, not a family, a clan.
Front-Pain and Konan, Tobi said, "Everything will return to its original form"
There, one can say that he wants to talk about juubi reform, but also the peace achieved by the RS, his father. Tobi still live in the past and would do anything to re-establish the peace, in the same way as the RS, that is to say by becoming the Juubi jin.
"I get it back the true power of sharingan, my power, that of Uchiha Madara. "
With the latest evidence we have the true power of sharingan can only be the Rinnegan. Here he speaks as madara since madara is in the eyes of nagato and konan.
Itachi vs. Sasuke-Combat. Here are the lyrics to Black Zetsu:
"Are you sure? "Zetsu to white on the possible defeat of Sasuke because of the lunar mysteries.
"The sharingan is a weapon like any other, the strength of the weapon depends on who holds it."
"With any luck we will see the celestial light. "
"The techniques of illusion will come to nothing, now that Sasuke broke the lunar mysteries, useless to continue the fight."
"As the power of his left eye has the most powerful genjutsu, it is claimed that his right eye has the ultimate physical attack. "
"In this technique the user must look at the target he wants to burn, then just aim well to the black flames gush. "
"Sasuke will enjoy the warmth of black flames to use the jutsu Raiton. "
"Oh but it's ..." Seeing the Susanoo.
"The sword of Totsuka, a sword capable of sealing the souls, it is said that trap everyone she pierces in an eternal illusion like a dream. "
"It's called Susanoo, it seems that this technique is very risky for the user. "
"This is another sacred weapon, it is the mirror of Yata, able to block everything. Once associated with Totsuka, he is invincible. "
Seen all the comments related to the sharingan, MS, and weapons-related Susanoo, I find it normal that the black Zetsu is Izuna, a former owner of MS. In any case, these words mean that black Zetsu is an uchiha. Just make your deductions, but such knowledge, while white ignores many things on the sharingan, does not make me doubt about the origins of Zetsu.
Another thing from the Black Zetsu:
"he's like his favorite animal, he has the toughness of the snake. "
Speaking of oro. So good, Zetsu knew Orochimaru in the Akatsuki. But I go further with my theory, like what orochimaru has only to appropriate the technique of immortality tobi. He had the ability through tenacity innate in him. Hence the word of Zetsu.
The after-battle
Tobi exchange of votes, the White Zetsu could explain this change of voice. But for the copying of DNA walk, he must come into contact with the ninja he wants to copy. Here, it is not the case. So I depend on various occasions when Orochimaru imitated the voice of the people he had the body. Here is the same for Tobi.
Black Zetsu: "We recorded everything. "
On my view, Zetsu could have a sharingan that would allow it to register and view the recording. (Eg Itachi tells the story of his sharingan madara through, this may be something similar)
-Conversation with Sasuke.
He is preparing to drop the mask as madara.
It can show the face of Madara since he has in its array of body.
Tobi speaks of the war between clans, Uchihas, the senjus, Madara, Izuna and that on the fingertips.
One might think that Madara has sent all the info to Tobi. But I have the impression that Tobi tells of the events he has experienced. Anyway, my theory reinforces this feeling.
His hand is contracted by talking about Izuna and his sacrifice, There, this is normal because Izuna is actually alive since it's Zetsu.
"But peace was short. "
When he talks about the formation of Konoha. It is perhaps qu'anodin, but when Tobi speaks of peace, we feel just as involved in his words, that it touches. When learning plan, it makes sense. But it's a little trick I had not seen.
He omits to say that it was he who attacked Konoha with Kyuubi.
He even says that Itachi lied about it.
This lie suits him well because he should not think that sasuke was behind everything. Tobi is indeed obliged to speak of what ensued after the attack Kyubi to Sasuke that nourished a deep hatred for Konoha. Anyway, I think that very soon the truth will be revealed through Oro ...
"You want to have his eyes? "
Very clever approach Tobi. With a simple question, it seeks to encourage Sasuke to graft the eyes of his brother. He has his way with a little patience. In reaching this stage, it seeks to evolve the sharingan of Sasuke Rinnegan.
-Tobi reveals his face to Kisame, an organization with Taka.
"Sorry to have lied knowing that it is you who are to me the most loyal. "
There, Tobi shows his face to Kisame, it recognizes it as Madara and Mizukage-sama. Knowing that Tobi was introduced to him as Madara and controlling Yagura. It may be that the same person for the face of Tobi was identified by the shark. So no intermediate Tobi.
Tobi Kubikiri Bocho blocks with his arm.
There you can find various explanations with the ability of zetsus ... but the solution could be copying the jutsu of Kakuzu Doton hardening via sharingan.
"The demons are monsters tails chakra, the first hokage had gathered some under his control. Every ninja war, he scattered around the world starting with the five great nations to balance the forces. He used it to build peace process and agreements. "
Interesting words here, we see that Hashirama did not have all Bijus hence the fact that the brothers kin / gin and madara could get their hands on him while Kurama was released. Finally, what interests us is the precise knowledge of Tobi. You may say that the lag of Madara ... Possible. But why would madara dwelt on so many details about the distribution of demons, the story of balance of power? This knowledge of the ninja world leads me to the conclusion that Tobi is old. Once again, Tobi accentuates the notion that peace is dear to him.
Tobi and Zetsu-Conversation
Zetsu: "So? "
Tobi: "Everything went well"
"Delighted to hear that. "
"Not forgetting that Itachi is dead, this time no one I put sticks in the wheels. The promise not to touch Konoha has no value. "
You do not learn much, just until the death of Itachi, the machine will be launched with Nagato. Itachi holding back the implementation of its plan. Since the death of itachi, tobi was one which shows more often, which is not afraid to reveal himself. Was he looking to leave Itachi indeed in the dark and so continue to believe that he was madara?
Zetsu: "From the time you're waiting for that! "
Zetsu's remark made me immediately think that Tobi before Kushina said that he was waiting for this moment for a long time. Connected together, it is undeniable that Tobi is a person of a certain age, some experience.
Tobi: "I was only able to follow the agreed plan. It's just as well. "
"Itachi mistakenly thought that we never could discover the truth in regard to itself, does not it? This was his biggest mistake. "
"It's not so much that I know nothing about him, but I rallied to my cause Sasuke. "
Tobi right there about the good progress of the plan, but says that Zetsu shows that he and / or Tobi could know this case (there, that's normal), but Itachi did not think they knew so much about the massacre, the ins and outs. I find this non-negligible. This suggests that at least Tobi was at the heart of that history and participated in the massacre, he was pulling the strings maybe.
-Again with Kisame and Zetsu.
Tobi: "We'll have to recruit other members to activate the statue of the heretic. "
Kisame: "What do you do? "
"I have two, three things to fix. "
It was clearly one of the intentions is to recruit Tobi that Sasuke, after it has completed loading of killer bee. One might also think that one of the things he needs to address, is his discussion with Naruto. But I do not see how it would solve anything? He seeks to perpetuate the conflict uchiha / senju?
-Towards the top of Kage
Black Zetsu: "Everything looks good, it seems. "
Tobi: "No, I do not think Nagato could use this technique as the reincarnation of souls. Actually, I did not expect at all. He betrayed me. It should not be making the same mistake with Sasuke. I have to keep control over him. Even if it becomes more powerful than Nagato, this would be pointless if it does not obey. For now, I will observe what is. "
It was of course a Zetsu into confidence, aware of the intentions of Tobi. One of them is to use Sasuke, certainly for the Rinnegan that he could develop. We see a parallel between Sasuke and Nagato fact, that both of them, Tobi tries to control it. The last sentence of Tobi accentuates the fact that the ninja is patient, wait, and do not try to launch itself into something that does not really require.
Zetsu: "You had considered the possibility that Naruto can defeat nagato? "
"I had not excluded, but it's true that it was not my favorite scenario, you're in doubt well. Naruto Uzumaki, this kid has managed to thwart my plan. "
"What you are doing? It takes action? "
"Yes, it's time to make the eye of the moon. "
Well there not much to stress, we see just that Tobi had planned many things, and had considered several possible scenarios. This is a great tactician, and I think it's fine to a man with long experience. We find the term "kid", who punctuates the work of Kishi when one pays attention. For me it is quite possible that Tobi has an age difference of a few decades at least with Naruto.
-Interview with Naruto, Kakashi and Yamato
"I expected Kakashi, the owner of the sharingan, you're fast. "
Simple observation of Tobi, on the other hand, nothing can be said that either Obito or anyone else with this one sentence. But when we connected it to the recent words of Tobi, it's still in continuity that Tobi 'may' know Kakashi. Except that Tobi is Madara and not person. So the words are blurred.
"Right now, I just want to discuss. "[...]" Nagato How did he become a traitor, Naruto, you have me curious. "
Tobi quickly comes to the fact, his big question is how Nagato was able to betray him. It was not planned in his plans, and therefore does not understand the persuasive power of Naruto that rivals his own, which even surpasses. He tries to get a response from Naruto. His behavior is consistent with an inveterate manipulator who can not stand that we can bring a different answer to his, to his own vision. His vision is the only valid, the most truthful.
"In the past, the Rikudo sennin preached the way of the ninja, and tried to lead the world toward peace, but before completing his dream, his time came. "Then history on his son and their descendants.
I thought the RS was its successful peace project, but apparently it was not completely succeeded! These words are to be confirmed ... Then I find once again the knowledge of the period from Tobi RS, the two families made thereunder, how hatred appeared, attributes that are both son of RS, their ideals, too pointed to it being a ninja who has only received a single instruction. Then, despite having received the neseignement Madara, even this famous ninja should not be born to know that time and its protagonists.
"It is only the second time I see you, but I know that you possess the will of fire senjus. I can see the first hokage in you. "
Ok, masquerading as Tobi Madara, but why does he say that?! He must have known Hashirama in his lifetime and even though it plays a role? Another phrase that makes me say that Tobi is an old rascal.
"You think you can change Sasuke as nagato is just as selfish, Naruto. "
I feel that sees Tobi's impact on Naruto Pain as one of his manipulations. Finally, this is what I understand with what it means selfish.
"To manipulate someone, we must be able to control the darkness of his prey. "
Here he gives his approach. Well, that does not offer us clues to his identity. But at least we know that this is someone who takes pleasure in the use of hate. He does it brilliantly well, that ease is just me reinforce the fact that it is experienced, he knows human nature. This resembles the handling of Oro on Kimimaro, Sasuke ... but in a smaller extent. Tobi is much better in the field.
Hmm dont think i want to read this heehehe 
