All Shinigami are not women.

[Pumpkin Ninja]

I think you guys think way too much and have too much time on your hands. I bet you that the gender will never be specified because it has no relevance to the story.

EDIT: Sir is right though :\

 

[Aim64C]

I'm a known opponent of his theory. I'd rather take the chances of me being wrong than going along with his theory.

And, of course, you are taking a serious risk there. I once ate pop rocks and then drank some soda. Can I sit at the cool-kid table, now?

If you'd like, I can link you (or just post it, it might be lost) to a thread I made that contains 3 points as to why the Sage/Uzumaki theory doesn't make sense. He never countered it of course, because he never responds to me. He mist think he's too good or something. Even when I ask him for sources on his information so I could possibly better my knowledge, he just ignores me.

There's not really much to counter.

If your argument against a theory is: "I don't understand" - the only response to give is: "Can't fix stupid."

At best - you make arguments against specific points of speculation within the theory - rather than making points against the crux of the theory, itself.

We also have to contend with the fact that Madara isn't exactly the lore master, here. This is the same guy who bumbled about for the better part of six decades trying to figure out how to activate the Rinnegan. Then he proclaims to know everything about it.

I'd be more inclined to trust what Orochimaru has to say about the lore. He apparently knows stuff - seeing as he JUST got done being Un-Itachi-ed, made the RDS his *****, and summoned four Hokage from the dead before breakfast.

I said it elsewhere - Madara attempts to explain what has happened to him. Orochimaru knows things. I'm sure he's going to pop up and start giving us a history lesson before too much longer.

 

[Booker]

And, of course, you are taking a serious risk there. I once ate pop rocks and then drank some soda. Can I sit at the cool-kid table, now?

Not even sure what you're trying to say.

There's not really much to counter.

If your argument against a theory is: "I don't understand" - the only response to give is: "Can't fix stupid."

At best - you make arguments against specific points of speculation within the theory - rather than making points against the crux of the theory, itself.

We also have to contend with the fact that Madara isn't exactly the lore master, here. This is the same guy who bumbled about for the better part of six decades trying to figure out how to activate the Rinnegan. Then he proclaims to know everything about it.

I'd be more inclined to trust what Orochimaru has to say about the lore. He apparently knows stuff - seeing as he JUST got done being Un-Itachi-ed, made the RDS his *****, and summoned four Hokage from the dead before breakfast.

I said it elsewhere - Madara attempts to explain what has happened to him. Orochimaru knows things. I'm sure he's going to pop up and start giving us a history lesson before too much longer.

Stopped reading at bold. If you think that's my argument, you didn't understand my post. Re-read and try again.

 

[Booker]

If it would make you all happy, I jumped to conclusions and assumed he was referring to all Shinigami.

He still states it as a fact, though; "The Shinigami of the Reaper Death Seal is a woman".

Not "it could be", not "it may be", but "it is".

That is not a fact. It is not confirmed. You cannot state it as a fact.

 

[Aim64C]

Not even sure what you're trying to say.

It would insult your intelligence to give you the answer so easily.

I was saying that what you are doing does not represent any substantial risk, whatsoever. It is one to exceptionally-greater-than-one odds that you are incorrect (meaning Derp is correct), since Derp is only correct in the event that Kaguya is the RDS (in terms of this specific discussion - extending it to the "Is the Sage an Uzumaki argument ups the odds even further).

It's kind of like saying: "I'm going to take the risk that I step outside today and get hit by a meteor."

And, yes - it is a calculable risk:

You must be registered for see links

It's happened and the person struck survived, at that.

Stopped reading at bold. If you think that's my argument, you didn't understand my post. Re-read and try again.

Honestly not worth my time. I read it once and understood what it meant better than you did.

"The Sage can't be an Uzumaki because the Uzumaki had chakra, and the Sage was the first with Chakra."

That argument is predicated on the absolute interpretation of Madara's words and does not take into account that all Ninja lineages must extend back to a time before Chakra existed amongst humans - the idea that a clan lineage could include non-ninja, non-chakra-wielding people.

What, then, of the Samurai? If all Ninja trace their lineage directly back to the Sage - and the Sage was the first human to utilize Chakra... then where do the Samurai fit in?

The obvious answer is that history is far more complex than Madara portrays it.

"Why would Kishimoto hide the Uzumaki lineage of the Sage?"

Why would he make Obito Tobi?

"But it wouldn't have any impact on the story!"

And you are sure of this... how? Revealing that the Uzumaki were more directly linked to the Sage than the Senju turns the context of everything Madra has said on its head. It changes the entire notion of there being a curse of hatred that is inescapable.

"The Sage couldn't be an Uzumaki because he had the Rinnegan! Mommy ate the apple and pissed off God."

Of course - since I was born with hazel eyes, and most people with my last name have blue or brown eyes, I must not be of my family lineage.

Just because dad had to go for a brown eyed woman whose womb formed the crystals in my irises to refract green wavelengths (green eyes are caused by an alteration of the diffraction gradient and not by an actual pigmentation of the iris - it is not strongly related to genetics).

If it would make you all happy, I jumped to conclusions and assumed he was referring to all Shinigami.

You jumped to conclusions?

Par for the course.

He still states it as a fact, though; "The Shinigami of the Reaper Death Seal is a woman".

Not "it could be", not "it may be", but "it is".

That is not a fact. It is not confirmed. You cannot state it as a fact.

Generally speaking, when we discuss theories and predictions - we speak in literal terms for the sake of simplicity. It is implied that the use of inductive reasoning does not constitute fact.

Captain Obvious is perilously close to Captain Oblivious.

 

[Seventh Sama]

It would insult your intelligence to give you the answer so easily.

I was saying that what you are doing does not represent any substantial risk, whatsoever. It is one to exceptionally-greater-than-one odds that you are incorrect (meaning Derp is correct), since Derp is only correct in the event that Kaguya is the RDS (in terms of this specific discussion - extending it to the "Is the Sage an Uzumaki argument ups the odds even further).

It's kind of like saying: "I'm going to take the risk that I step outside today and get hit by a meteor."

And, yes - it is a calculable risk:

You must be registered for see links

It's happened and the person struck survived, at that.



Honestly not worth my time. I read it once and understood what it meant better than you did.

"The Sage can't be an Uzumaki because the Uzumaki had chakra, and the Sage was the first with Chakra."

That argument is predicated on the absolute interpretation of Madara's words and does not take into account that all Ninja lineages must extend back to a time before Chakra existed amongst humans - the idea that a clan lineage could include non-ninja, non-chakra-wielding people.

What, then, of the Samurai? If all Ninja trace their lineage directly back to the Sage - and the Sage was the first human to utilize Chakra... then where do the Samurai fit in?

The obvious answer is that history is far more complex than Madara portrays it.

"Why would Kishimoto hide the Uzumaki lineage of the Sage?"

Why would he make Obito Tobi?

"But it wouldn't have any impact on the story!"

And you are sure of this... how? Revealing that the Uzumaki were more directly linked to the Sage than the Senju turns the context of everything Madra has said on its head. It changes the entire notion of there being a curse of hatred that is inescapable.

"The Sage couldn't be an Uzumaki because he had the Rinnegan! Mommy ate the apple and pissed off God."

Of course - since I was born with hazel eyes, and most people with my last name have blue or brown eyes, I must not be of my family lineage.

Just because dad had to go for a brown eyed woman whose womb formed the crystals in my irises to refract green wavelengths (green eyes are caused by an alteration of the diffraction gradient and not by an actual pigmentation of the iris - it is not strongly related to genetics).



You jumped to conclusions?

Par for the course.



Generally speaking, when we discuss theories and predictions - we speak in literal terms for the sake of simplicity. It is implied that the use of inductive reasoning does not constitute fact.

Captain Obvious is perilously close to Captain Oblivious.

woah dude,woah. No need to go ape sh@t on him

 

[Booker]

woah dude,woah. No need to go ape sh@t on him

No, it's fine. Let him vent. He's probably just frustrated his life didn't go far beyond lowly Army grunt.

 

[Aim64C]

woah dude,woah. No need to go ape sh@t on him

That's just how I respond to a minor annoyance/irritant.

Honestly, I'm just kind of bored at the moment and killing time. There's not much in the way of meaningful debate/discussion going on at the base at the moment, either.

 

[Aim64C]

No, it's fine. Let him vent. He's probably just frustrated his life didn't go far beyond lowly Army grunt.

Interesting.

I do believe that is an ad-hominem levied against an alleged Army-tard.... as an indirect 'response' to a presented argument.

Surely you can give an Army-tard a run for his money, can't you?

 

[Seventh Sama]

No, it's fine. Let him vent. He's probably just frustrated his life didn't go far beyond lowly Army grunt.

You must be registered for see images

 

[Disquiet]

This has been an interesting thread to say the least. As for the theory, I read it sometime ago and thought it was a reasonable theory.

 

[Booker]

Interesting.

I do believe that is an ad-hominem levied against an alleged Army-tard.... as an indirect 'response' to a presented argument.

Surely you can give an Army-tard a run for his money, can't you?

Wasn't ad-hominem. I honestly believe that's the truth.

You're a man of great intelligence. More so than me. You most likely are frustrated you're just an Army grunt. What is it you do specifically, if you don't mind my asking? I'm in line to be an Officer in the Air Force myself, once I finish college.

@Bold I know a dead-end debate when I see one, and I don't have the time nor patience to type an appropriate response.

 

[Aim64C]

Wasn't ad-hominem. I honestly believe that's the truth.

In that case, don't trust your instincts.

You're a man of great intelligence. More so than me.

And you're a man of politics.

You most likely are frustrated you're just an Army grunt.

If I'm frustrated at anything it's that I'm procrastinating from a game development project I started in angst a month ago. I'm exceptionally good at procrastination. It's a slow start - trying to, basically, organize volunteers around a project that requires defined goals that is also supposed to be somewhat 'democratic' in establishing those goals. People don't like to rally around ambiguity and democracy requires people to work.

Further complicating that is the fact that I 'recently' relocated and am too frugal to purchase proper desk furniture - so I'm sitting in my empty living room with the bare necessities of a nerd (his computer) - sitting on the floor. It's quite comical, really - and while I have plenty of money - I, for some reason, loathe the idea of spending money on furniture at the moment.

Which makes my use of the computer for content creation somewhat frustrating - as it's not the most effective position to research and do coding from.

Further complicating the issue is the overall question of whether to develop a completely new game engine (ideal) or modify a comprehensive engine - such as Real Virtuality 4... the problem with mods for that engine is that there is little documentation for the type of total conversion I/we would be attempting. Most of the mods are to expand upon the military sim in a realistic manner rather than to re-envision a Sci-fi universe within a realistic simulator (with expanded HUD and UI properties). My lack of experience with UI modifications, especially, frustrates me on that issue.

Of course - there's also the impending collapse of the U.S. that could occur anywhere from 2015 to 2020 (would be intrigued if it happens later than that). That will give rise to civil war between communist and free-market advocates - which should be quite entertaining. But it has me considerably irritated because it comes with a high probability of me or a girl I am particularly fond of dying. It's one of those thoughts that is always on the back of my mind.

I am irritated with the military - largely the Reserves. There's a lot I still want to do to serve the country - but the bureaucracy of it all is so horribly convoluted and backwards that it is destroying itself and its culture. It's become a fraternity more than a military (with the exception of the Marine Corps - but even they are starting to erode little by little). We're still one of the best fighting forces on the face of the planet - but if it were to continue at this rate for ten years - we'd be as corrupt as the Iraqi military was when we invaded Iraq. You'd have Colonels that exist by virtue of political affiliation/hereditary rights.

What is it you do specifically, if you don't mind my asking? I'm in line to be an Officer in the Air Force myself, once I finish college.

By schooling and initial rating - Aviation Electronics Technician - Intermediate Level. Petty Officer, Second Class (E-5). Essentially - work on radars, radios, and component-level troubleshooting of those systems. My rank would place me the civilian equivalent of a shop foreman. Deployed with the Coastal Riverines as a 'warm body' on the watch teams. That is why I get to wear the greens. Their training was more fun than their job.

Civilian side (which is the bulk of my income) - I'm currently a biomed technician doing water treatment and dialysis machine repair. Water treatment involves the maintenance of Reverse Osmosis units - the water we use has about 1/100th as much dissolved solids content as what comes out of your tap water (the exception being a very few wells with resistance readings approaching what DI accomplishes). Then the machines mix it with acid and bicarbonate concentrates that then flow against blood across a membrane - stripping out a lot of what isn't supposed to be there.

It's kind of neat how simple and yet intricate the process is. Most of what is possible today is so because of advances in manufacturing technology for semi-permeable membranes. The principle of Dialysis hasn't changed much at all. It's just that we can now get enough contact area out of twenty centimeters of modern dialyzers that used to take a machine the size of a regulation pool table with cellophane as a membrane.

Probably stick around in this field for a while. If the civil war comes - I'll probably end up as some regional leader within that - or just getting the hell to another country. Probably depends upon which way the winds are blowing and where aforementioned female is (and what role she ends up playing in my life). Regardless - I would really like to get into experimenting with manufacturing methods for cellulose nanocrystals. I've also got some crazy ideas for bio-luminescent fungi/plant grafts that might be popular amongst the environmentalists (and people who like novelties).

Ultimately - I'd like to develop defense solutions focusing on Aerospace applications. I'd probably base out of South America (unless the business climate of America changes... as in... does an about-face and a double-time march) and not be bound by export restrictions. Though depending upon how bad the economic collapse is - that may just be a fanciful tale for my grandchildren around the camp fire - talking of the days when doors opened automatically and all manner of mystical materials that can only be found as shattered fragments of years of succession wars.

@Bold I know a dead-end debate when I see one, and I don't have the time nor patience to type an appropriate response.

The question is why did you not see that this was a dead-end debate from the beginning?

 

[Booker]

Spoiler

In that case, don't trust your instincts.



And you're a man of politics.



If I'm frustrated at anything it's that I'm procrastinating from a game development project I started in angst a month ago. I'm exceptionally good at procrastination. It's a slow start - trying to, basically, organize volunteers around a project that requires defined goals that is also supposed to be somewhat 'democratic' in establishing those goals. People don't like to rally around ambiguity and democracy requires people to work.

Further complicating that is the fact that I 'recently' relocated and am too frugal to purchase proper desk furniture - so I'm sitting in my empty living room with the bare necessities of a nerd (his computer) - sitting on the floor. It's quite comical, really - and while I have plenty of money - I, for some reason, loathe the idea of spending money on furniture at the moment.

Which makes my use of the computer for content creation somewhat frustrating - as it's not the most effective position to research and do coding from.

Further complicating the issue is the overall question of whether to develop a completely new game engine (ideal) or modify a comprehensive engine - such as Real Virtuality 4... the problem with mods for that engine is that there is little documentation for the type of total conversion I/we would be attempting. Most of the mods are to expand upon the military sim in a realistic manner rather than to re-envision a Sci-fi universe within a realistic simulator (with expanded HUD and UI properties). My lack of experience with UI modifications, especially, frustrates me on that issue.

Of course - there's also the impending collapse of the U.S. that could occur anywhere from 2015 to 2020 (would be intrigued if it happens later than that). That will give rise to civil war between communist and free-market advocates - which should be quite entertaining. But it has me considerably irritated because it comes with a high probability of me or a girl I am particularly fond of dying. It's one of those thoughts that is always on the back of my mind.

I am irritated with the military - largely the Reserves. There's a lot I still want to do to serve the country - but the bureaucracy of it all is so horribly convoluted and backwards that it is destroying itself and its culture. It's become a fraternity more than a military (with the exception of the Marine Corps - but even they are starting to erode little by little). We're still one of the best fighting forces on the face of the planet - but if it were to continue at this rate for ten years - we'd be as corrupt as the Iraqi military was when we invaded Iraq. You'd have Colonels that exist by virtue of political affiliation/hereditary rights.



By schooling and initial rating - Aviation Electronics Technician - Intermediate Level. Petty Officer, Second Class (E-5). Essentially - work on radars, radios, and component-level troubleshooting of those systems. My rank would place me the civilian equivalent of a shop foreman. Deployed with the Coastal Riverines as a 'warm body' on the watch teams. That is why I get to wear the greens. Their training was more fun than their job.

Civilian side (which is the bulk of my income) - I'm currently a biomed technician doing water treatment and dialysis machine repair. Water treatment involves the maintenance of Reverse Osmosis units - the water we use has about 1/100th as much dissolved solids content as what comes out of your tap water (the exception being a very few wells with resistance readings approaching what DI accomplishes). Then the machines mix it with acid and bicarbonate concentrates that then flow against blood across a membrane - stripping out a lot of what isn't supposed to be there.

It's kind of neat how simple and yet intricate the process is. Most of what is possible today is so because of advances in manufacturing technology for semi-permeable membranes. The principle of Dialysis hasn't changed much at all. It's just that we can now get enough contact area out of twenty centimeters of modern dialyzers that used to take a machine the size of a regulation pool table with cellophane as a membrane.

Probably stick around in this field for a while. If the civil war comes - I'll probably end up as some regional leader within that - or just getting the hell to another country. Probably depends upon which way the winds are blowing and where aforementioned female is (and what role she ends up playing in my life). Regardless - I would really like to get into experimenting with manufacturing methods for cellulose nanocrystals. I've also got some crazy ideas for bio-luminescent fungi/plant grafts that might be popular amongst the environmentalists (and people who like novelties).

Ultimately - I'd like to develop defense solutions focusing on Aerospace applications. I'd probably base out of South America (unless the business climate of America changes... as in... does an about-face and a double-time march) and not be bound by export restrictions. Though depending upon how bad the economic collapse is - that may just be a fanciful tale for my grandchildren around the camp fire - talking of the days when doors opened automatically and all manner of mystical materials that can only be found as shattered fragments of years of succession wars.



The question is why did you not see that this was a dead-end debate from the beginning?

Civil War? What?

You're better off applying your intelligence to things other than whack-job conspiracy theories.

That's cool. I'm finishing my degree in criminal justice and am planning on doing OSI for the Air Force, and then maybe CIA if my OSI career goes over well. I figured you were some generic army grunt- not the case, I suppose.

But for your own sake, drop this whole "American Civil War" idea. The country has since moved past such means to settling its troubles. Typically nations as developed as us don't devolve like that.

Also what's this with you or a girl dying? Are you terminal?

Let's take this to VM- I don't plan on discussing the thread topic further.