Alive Madara > 5 kage. (Dantee) is not sure about Hashirama.

[obscoral]

both EMS madara and shodai will solo-fodderize gokage without trouble

edo forms are absolute overape

 

[-Jiten-]

Well the only Ninja Madara acknowledge.. was Hashi... so don't underestimate him.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

Wait normal hashirama that raped ems madara? I say hashirama wins's high diff but he can still lose but his wood is to strong and big plus his will of fire is to great

 

[GiantShuriken]

Mokuton sucks. I don't know how they are going to make Hashirama good if/when he enters the show.

 

[Dantee]

His counter for jinton is his reserves, how many forest busting dust techs do you think oonoki can use? He even needed tsunade to use the last one, and hashirama is more experienced with mokuton clones than madara, jinton is nothing but wasted chakra, hashirama can meld into the enviroment similarly to zetsu, I honestly think you give Oonoki far to much credit, once he uses like 3 or more largescale techs, he's running on empty.

Large chakra reserves is hardly a named counter for Jinton. How does Hashirama stop himself from getting erased by such a tech. On top of that Onnoki can fly so protecting himself inside the forest is hardly an issue. Now if we add the rest of the kages with Onnoki how will it turn up for Hashirama? Not well at all. You say ABC applies but it really doesn't because Hashi doesn't have the means to handle all 5 of the kages at once.

 

[obscoral]

You say ABC applies but it really doesn't because Hashi doesn't have the means to handle all 5 of the kages at once.

mokuton bunshins.

 

[Dantee]

mokuton bunshins.

We don't know even know how he uses those clones. Madara decided to spam clones because he has infinite chakra doesnt mean Hashirama does. 25 Mokoton clones would use an insane amount of chakra even if he is a senju. Plus Jinton > mokton clones

 

[Invsblphntm]

Wait normal hashirama that raped ems madara? I say hashirama wins's high diff but he can still lose but his wood is to strong and big plus his will of fire is to great

Did you just put will of fire as a reason? You're not serious are you?

 

[TiddlySkydiver]

A living Madara inside a Perfect Susano could still be killed with a large enough Jinton, so saying that Hashirama can't block the tech isn't sufficient to say he would be killed. Madara and Hashirama both die vs Onoki or Muu by that logic. These fights are much more than this tech>that tech, it's the tier of ninja we are talking about. I see both Madara and Hashirama stomping all five kage.

 

[obscoral]

We don't know even know how he uses those clones. Madara decided to spam clones because he has infinite chakra doesnt mean Hashirama does. 25 Mokoton clones would use an insane amount of chakra even if he is a senju. Plus Jinton > mokton clones

senjus`s general chakra reserves are largest in narutoverse, about on par with uzumakis, while hashi is well, hashi (he has sage`s body for ****`s sake)

25 is not a law. 10 will also do just fine.

only oonki has jinton in gokage team and he will be the first who dies

 

[Dantee]

A living Madara inside a Perfect Susano could still be killed with a large enough Jinton, so saying that Hashirama can't block the tech isn't sufficient to say he would be killed. Madara and Hashirama both die vs Onoki or Muu by that logic. These fights are much more than this tech>that tech, it's the tier of ninja we are talking about. I see both Madara and Hashirama both stomping all five kage.

Preta Path? If we are talking about Tiers Hiruzen should be able to take on all 5 kages no problem as well then.

 

[TrollingSage]

Preta Path? If we are talking about Tiers Hiruzen should be able to take on all 5 kages no problem as well then.

As far as am concerned rinnegan Madara is frail old pensioner on life support. He wont be soloing the kages anytime soon.

 

[Dantee]

As far as am concerned rinnegan Madara is frail old pensioner on life support. He wont be soloing the kages anytime soon.

Life support from old age.

 

[TiddlySkydiver]

Preta Path? If we are talking about Tiers Hiruzen should be able to take on all 5 kages no problem as well then.

Are you talking about old Madara? Because after the fight with Hashi, Madara was broken. He was in no shape to take on the 5 kage at that point, he couldn't even leave that area. I assumed you were talking about EMS Madara, pre-Hashi fight. But yeah, I am talking about tiers, but I'm not talking about them in that sense. I'm comparing the 5 kage to Hashi and Madara, and only them, the tiers are distinct. I'm looking at it in terms of the people involved not random name throws like prime hiruzen which is a completely different issue and has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[genii96]

Not sure abt alive madara,but hashi can't solo the 5 kages.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

Did you just put will of fire as a reason? You're not serious are you?

You will see how the will of fire defeats madara just you wait

 

[Strict]

We don't know even know how he uses those clones. Madara decided to spam clones because he has infinite chakra doesnt mean Hashirama does. 25 Mokoton clones would use an insane amount of chakra even if he is a senju. Plus Jinton > mokton clones

Hashirama had an incredible strong DNA and Chakra, just as Madara had a very powerful Chakra even for an Uchiha. Both Hashirama and Madara were representing the maximum of Uchiha und Senju, the stamina wasn't the matter at all since they fought in a fight where the map had to be changed and a valley was created. That the Edo Tensei grants you unlimited Chakra doesn't mean that you can use techniques which requires more Chakra than your actual level has to offer. You just don't reaching your limit by using your techniques. Itachi for example wouldn't be able to use 25 clones since don't having the Chakra for doing this while having only 1/25 of his Chakra. If Naruto can use a bunch of Kagebunshins without even using Kuramas Chakra, why Hashirama can't?

Hashirama is stronger than the current Kage together that's a fact. Madara fight both and said that the Kage stay in no comparison to Hashirama, compared to the fight Madara had with Hashirama, he called this one a little game. And this has nothing to to with being an Edo and having unlimited Chakra, he just put much less effort in fighting the Kage than against Hashirama. He fought Hashirama with his perfect Susanoo and lost, while the Kages were going to be crushed with one slash.

 

[Retsu]

Large chakra reserves is hardly a named counter for Jinton. How does Hashirama stop himself from getting erased by such a tech. On top of that Onnoki can fly so protecting himself inside the forest is hardly an issue. Now if we add the rest of the kages with Onnoki how will it turn up for Hashirama? Not well at all. You say ABC applies but it really doesn't because Hashi doesn't have the means to handle all 5 of the kages at once.

With your current knowledge he can't, remember that we know next to nothing on him, don't assume something just because of what you have seen, I think the manga clearly implies Hashirama and Madara are on another level, not just Madara.

 

[Slug Princess Tsunade]

Its not that simple. Hashirama was very strong. Though I believe that the 5 Kage can defeat him. But I dont think that Onoki can solo him.
And I'm not sure about the alive Madara.

 

[TheSages456]

um this isnt really debatable. madara stomped the 5 kage. logically a person who is stronger than madara also stomps.