[Discussion] African/African American slavery...lets talk it.

Anorien16

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Greater understanding of what exactly?

Why and How it happens across globe (Unlike most America centric idiots out there ... Slavery was (is) a universal issue. Its not about just Whites dominating blacks). Also funnily Slavery is not exclusive to humans ... Amazon Slave Making ants (S: ) are one of the practitioners, which makes it intriguing cause Ants happen to be most community oriented species ever, ie, basically the perfect communist species.
 

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We did not get taught about them in school but when it comes to out story they have a tendency to sugarcoat Ottoman Empire's doings.
....

Sounds like a standard tactics opted for school kids. School history tries to tone down the Turk and related history in India as much as it can. they probably do not want to fan the negativity among young ones.
 

slimreaper

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You would be the one to get offended by history.





Two quotes showing how careful I was not to generalize and stereotype all white people, either in past or present, based on these historical events and their similarities.

But I understand, you're more comfortable talking about the negative aspects of other races, not your own, so if it'll make you feel better we can talk about the dark sides of other races from history

You carefully painted all those who came across white people in history as victims.

I guess you don't remember the Alamo.

Btw this slanted view when applied to white folks is called stereotyping when done to blacks

There are good and bad in all groups, you've just been taught only the white bad
 

Troyg39

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You carefully painted all those who came across white people in history as victims.

Native Americans, Blacks, Mexicans.

That's only three races. Far from all races that have come across white people in history. Invalid argument

I guess you don't remember the Alamo.

Yes, I do remember the Alamo. It took place in 1836 I believe, and is painted in US text books as validation for the Texas Revolution, some even noting the "unruliness" of the area before Spanish settlers. Thus the reason many people, like yourself, are quick to point it out in defense of the Texas Revolution despite it being a retaliation and one of the last events of this historic event, glossing over the context. Oh and it was a great movie

I also remember that the Alamo was a response to Southern American settlers attacking Mexican soldiers during the "Battle of Gonzales", which was the first engagement between Mexico and US. The soldiers didn't engage them. I believe a Mexican general was even taken captive, though his name escapes me. And all this was over a cannon that the settlers didn't want to give back.

But nevertheless, yes I "remember the Alamo", and it's historical context in full. Texas settlers attacked Mexican soldiers and the Mexican army slaughtered them in response. Kind of what you would expect to happen when you engage an army, on their land, land that they gave you, when you're technically one of their citizens.

I think the term is called "treason", and I do believe that even here in America, the death penalty would be given for to taking such action against our troops. That's like me attacking american soldiers because the government said I can't have my gun despite me already living in Sec 8 housing and getting food stamps paid for by it's people through taxes that I don't contribute to. But I will say this! Your stance mirrors that of the Texas settlers in the sense that culturally they were still American, and felt American, despite being Mexican citizens. The difficulty of embracing and assimilating into a new culture was one of the reasons the Texas Revolution happened. So it was an "us" and "them" kind of thing, similar to what is seen today with some minorities though on a different scale

Btw this slanted view when applied to white folks is called stereotyping when done to blacks

There are good and bad in all groups, you've just been taught only the white bad

Actually my knowledge on the subject comes from my own extensive review of US history. No one taught me. I sought my knowledge. Also, I said very clearly that we could discuss a different race if it makes you more comfortable. You clearly chose not to take me up on that offer yet you say I've "only been taught the white bad". And on that note, I have classes to attend, but feel free to reply.

But dude, you have a bad habit of talking about things you aren't even well read on. If you want to discuss this topic further I'm all for it, but I'm not interested in more of your unsupported nonsense. Not trying to sound rude but I've been through this before with you. I'd rather you just take my first advice and we just change the topic altogether and focus on another race.
 
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Multiply

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That's right. Paint the white man evil and every other race innocent. Yeah ok dog

He's not painting anything, that's called history slim.

Why and How it happens across globe (Unlike most America centric idiots out there ... Slavery was (is) a universal issue. Its not about just Whites dominating blacks). Also funnily Slavery is not exclusive to humans ... Amazon Slave Making ants (S: ) are one of the practitioners, which makes it intriguing cause Ants happen to be most community oriented species ever, ie, basically the perfect communist species.

But we're not talking about those versions of slavery. We're talking about American slavery.
 

Troyg39

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Why and How it happens across globe (Unlike most America centric idiots out there ... Slavery was (is) a universal issue. Its not about just Whites dominating blacks). Also funnily Slavery is not exclusive to humans ... Amazon Slave Making ants (S: ) are one of the practitioners, which makes it intriguing cause Ants happen to be most community oriented species ever, ie, basically the perfect communist species.

Context my friend. Though it's true that you need a global view to understand slavery from a more broad perspective, a global view of slavery doesn't translate to regional implications. In the case of the American slave-trade, the significant factors vary in relation to slave history in other areas. Where one region's motives for a slave trade may be spurred by racial and economical factors (American slave trade), others were more religious-based (Ottoman Empire/Eastern Slave trade). And these factors also influence how slaves were treated, used, as well as their access to freedom (or lack thereof) and other relevant factors.

Slavery can mean and be something completely different depending on location, so it's essential to have the details over the general idea when dissussing the topic pertaining to a particular area, though both are important
 

00Rinne

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For every last person that has a job and works for pieces of paper is a slave. Can't just lump black folks in as slaves in this country anymore.

We're all slave! It's just how comfortable you are being one to not realize that you, me and all of us are slaves, first comes admitting it an that is when you can set youself free from being one.

IMO
 

paratise

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Sounds like a standard tactics opted for school kids. School history tries to tone down the Turk and related history in India as much as it can. they probably do not want to fan the negativity among young ones.

Did we have a good or bad relation with India? I did not know our history was getting taught there, let alone in a positive light.

(Btw Ottoman Empire was an Islamic one rather than a Turkic one, just adding).
Slavery can mean and be something completely different depending on location, so it's essential to have the details over the general idea when dissussing the topic pertaining to a particular area, though both are important

This is what is bothering me when it comes to this particular topic, people saying ~everyone had slavery~ while disregarding numerous differences for trivializing the past crimes against humanity.

Every country has factory workers but does a factory worker in China has the same rights, income and status with a factory worker in Norway, surely not.
 

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Did we have a good or bad relation with India? I did not know our history was getting taught there, let alone in a positive light.

I don't know which country you are from. Dutch, and some others tried and many of them fought over who would rule here but only three were serious players- Portuguese British and French and rest moved to south east Asia. French barely managed to keep hold of some small territories. Portuguese were more stubborn and last to leave but still they too were limited to one corner. British were the ones that got the biggest loot and systematically so.

Other than that we had been getting Turkish and other middle eastern invaders all the time. So British coming in picture left some positive results too as it broke the status quo and stagnation that had resulted due to earlier foreign rule. It became a triangular situation somewhere between 1857 to 1921 and finally forced us chose our priorities and national interests.

(Btw Ottoman Empire was an Islamic one rather than a Turkic one, just adding).

I know. Destruction all around- from thousands of temples, to one of the oldest universities Nalanda (a center of learning from the fifth century CE to c. 1200 CE.)and it's vast library.. and massacres. They say that it had so many books that the ashes could be seen coming out of the remains even after six months...conversions, subjugation of local population as secondary citizens...But the last time I called Ottoman Empire as Islamic one some member insisted that it was Turkic only. :|


This is what is bothering me when it comes to this particular topic, people saying ~everyone had slavery~ while disregarding numerous differences for trivializing the past crimes against humanity.

Maybe because it's kind of more complicated. People still feel more comfortable talking about racial problems. There is a relatively clear demarcation due to skin colour and easier to identify with one group or the other but it can still be worked out because it doesn't involve ideological difference in the same way as in case of religious or an other similarly influential one.

When you talk about religious aggression then somehow it becomes more sensitive issue when it involves two ideological identities- one religious, one national/ethnic. The imperialistic nature of some of the religions is often in direct conflict with nationalism, because nationalism or preference towards local history/values and culture resists imposition of foreign history/values and culture.

The new ideology comes in and tells locals to forget their own heroes as stupid barbarians and replace them with heroes of far away land. You are now suppose to mourn over or be proud of deeds of someone who has no connection to you and your people. This is bound to annoy some people still revering their own history and at time it gives rise to comically ironic situations for the neo converts too... but I digress.

I must add here that it's not only religion- it's also true for some other ideologies- like communism. Same conflict due to basic nature of the ideology is to prevail and take over. To establish a parallel rule even if it cannot come directly in power just yet.

As a result people in a country who believe that they have common interest and goals as a country, find that a section in their country recognizes the country of residence their own but pledges alliances to a religious/communist/XYZ ideology leader in a remote country and feel a strong brotherhood bond based on that ideology rather than their nationality or culture or values. Instead they may even start to put it down and bash it along with putting their interest( new ideology) over his national one.

And this complicates the loyalties and thus generates mutual distrust and over sensitivity. Thus an hornet's nest. Unless all the sections of people in this situation act mature and try to work together based on common interests, it can cause serious issues.

Every country has factory workers but does a factory worker in China has the same rights, income and status with a factory worker in Norway, surely not.

Funny thing is that China controls it's labour market completely but communists here go on strike so much that some industrial cities got ruined to their unreasonable demands. A lot of Indian companies are outsourced to China.
 
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'Kurapika

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What does it mean to be a slave? If it's being forced into labour for someone else's benefit then I don't think slavery has ended. It just got a bit more subtle over time.
 

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Why and How it happens across globe (Unlike most America centric idiots out there ... Slavery was (is) a universal issue. Its not about just Whites dominating blacks). Also funnily Slavery is not exclusive to humans ... Amazon Slave Making ants (S: ) are one of the practitioners, which makes it intriguing cause Ants happen to be most community oriented species ever, ie, basically the perfect communist species.

We're aware, we just refer to America's slavery because it's the most relevant
and talked about that we cover more ground on.
 

slimreaper

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Native Americans, Blacks, Mexicans.

That's only three races. Far from all races that have come across white people in history. Invalid argument



Yes, I do remember the Alamo. It took place in 1836 I believe, and is painted in US text books as validation for the Texas Revolution, some even noting the "unruliness" of the area before Spanish settlers. Thus the reason many people, like yourself, are quick to point it out in defense of the Texas Revolution despite it being a retaliation and one of the last events of this historic event, glossing over the context. Oh and it was a great movie

I also remember that the Alamo was a response to Southern American settlers attacking Mexican soldiers during the "Battle of Gonzales", which was the first engagement between Mexico and US. The soldiers didn't engage them. I believe a Mexican general was even taken captive, though his name escapes me. And all this was over a cannon that the settlers didn't want to give back.

But nevertheless, yes I "remember the Alamo", and it's historical context in full. Texas settlers attacked Mexican soldiers and the Mexican army slaughtered them in response. Kind of what you would expect to happen when you engage an army, on their land, land that they gave you, when you're technically one of their citizens.

I think the term is called "treason", and I do believe that even here in America, the death penalty would be given for to taking such action against our troops. That's like me attacking american soldiers because the government said I can't have my gun despite me already living in Sec 8 housing and getting food stamps paid for by it's people through taxes that I don't contribute to. But I will say this! Your stance mirrors that of the Texas settlers in the sense that culturally they were still American, and felt American, despite being Mexican citizens. The difficulty of embracing and assimilating into a new culture was one of the reasons the Texas Revolution happened. So it was an "us" and "them" kind of thing, similar to what is seen today with some minorities though on a different scale



Actually my knowledge on the subject comes from my own extensive review of US history. No one taught me. I sought my knowledge. Also, I said very clearly that we could discuss a different race if it makes you more comfortable. You clearly chose not to take me up on that offer yet you say I've "only been taught the white bad". And on that note, I have classes to attend, but feel free to reply.

But dude, you have a bad habit of talking about things you aren't even well read on. If you want to discuss this topic further I'm all for it, but I'm not interested in more of your unsupported nonsense. Not trying to sound rude but I've been through this before with you. I'd rather you just take my first advice and we just change the topic altogether and focus on another race.

I'm not trying to get in a long discussion on my phone. But lets just say you have a warped view of bad. If you dislike how a government is being run, then you leave. Taking texas (because they won) doesn't make them bad.

As for your view on immigration, ill reference Milton Friedman.

Illegal immigration is good so long as the illegal don't use the benefits provided to citizens.

We use cheap labor but no one is forcing it. It comes willingly. If the use our benefits, then we get no value for their labor and they are a mostly un taxed burden on our society.

To end. There is evil in all groups, but ill gladly take the title of most evil because it means you're at the top.
 

Sir Francis Drake

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For every last person that has a job and works for pieces of paper is a slave. Can't just lump black folks in as slaves in this country anymore.

We're all slave! It's just how comfortable you are being one to not realize that you, me and all of us are slaves, first comes admitting it an that is when you can set youself free from being one.

IMO

Yes, because getting paid for your work and getting benefits too while getting to go home afterwards and spend your time how you want and live your life how you choose is equal to slavery
 

slimreaper

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For anyone who says that slavery is responsible for the state of blacks in America today

[video=youtube;pKOofZd9Y0c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKOofZd9Y0c[/video]
 

Dantee

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It was ****ed up and us African Americans still have to deal with the implications and generational effects of slavery .
 

Troyg39

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I'm not trying to get in a long discussion on my phone. But lets just say you have a warped view of bad. If you dislike how a government is being run, then you leave.

The southern American settlers didn't leave. They stayed, and tried to impose their will on the Mexican government, despite Mexico already compromising on several issues, slavery being one of them and one of the biggest. The people you're defending didn't even take your advice

Taking texas (because they won) doesn't make them bad.

The Southern American settlers were given land (more than just Texas, 7 of our current states), citizenship, and protection, by the Mexican government. They were allowed to keep their slaves. They were allowed other accommodations that were illegal in Mexico. Yet they still refused to follow even some of the most basic laws of their new country and meet their government half-way. They didn't pay taxes, or sell off Mexican ports. They attacked Mexican soldiers, and provoked a war against a nation who hadn't even been independent for 20 years, taking a massive portion of their newly acquired territory.

Imagine the US giving citizenship to an illegal, giving him free land and supplies, protecting him with our government, and bending several laws despite other naturally born Americans having to follow the laws to its specifics, tolerating the newly US citizen not paying taxes, and in return the ex-illegal attacks a US soldier all because the government didn't want to budge on giving them a gun permit (referencing the cannon issue). Now imagine a group of people doing that to us. That's not bad to you? That's ok to you? Treason...is not bad...ok..to you? Ok kid.

Again, these were Southern American slave owners we are talking about, who's "bad" past is well documented, even beyond slavery. They didn't represent the entire US. The North (where the government was) only got involved because of the Alamo (which again, was a retaliation, the southern american immigrants attacked first in the Battle of Gonzales) and did give Mexico $15 million, albeit a small amount for so much land taken. So as I said in my original post, we are talking about a small group of whites, not all of them. Unless you have some historical truth to your remarks beyond "Taking texas because they won", sshhh.



As for your view on immigration, ill reference Milton Friedman.

It is not my view. I told you historical fact. You can fact check it and learn more (you clearly should), in the Library of Congress. They have a website. Put that phone of yours to more scholarly use.


Illegal immigration is good so long as the illegal don't use the benefits provided to citizens.

We use cheap labor but no one is forcing it. It comes willingly. If the use our benefits, then we get no value for their labor and they are a mostly un taxed burden on our society.

False. You're being a sheep again. Losing the undocumented workers we currently have in the US would equate to over a trillion dollar net loss to our GDP. Again, feel free to put that phone of yours to better use. Undocumented workers also contribute billions in both state and local taxes. Undocumented worker are also not eligible for most public benefits as they don't have the paperwork, which should've been an obvious thing to you, but I know how sheep are.

From both a historical and economical perspective, undocumented workers have always been a benefit to the country, mainly due to their involvement in agriculture and infrastructure, the countries two founding industries. Thus the reason the US has always welcomed Mexican immigration, except in times of economic crisis, crisis, that the immigrants didn't contribute to. Notice I said "Mexican", as even during times of Mexican immigration surplus encouraged by the government, other immigrants weren't allowed access as easily. All of this can be fact checked. Since I have to deal with this information on a daily basis in my school studies, I'll leave the research to the one who needs it most.



To end. There is evil in all groups, but ill gladly take the title of most evil because it means you're at the top.

You acknowledge there is evil in all groups, yet you made such a fuss over talking about the evils of your own? The same person who constantly posts threads referring to the bad sides of other races, particularly black people. But that's ok. We're all hypocritical from time to time.

As far as your last statement, bravo sir. You'll gladly take the title most evil, because, in your mind, that means you're at the top. Throughout history, in many different cultures, the root of many dark events stem from a willingness to embrace evil out of a superiority complex.

This will be the last post from me on this topic. It's clear you're only armed with viewpoints rather than supportive facts, so no need for a lengthy convo like our previous encounters. Which is ok, at least your have an opinion. I wouldn't even know the historical or economical implications if I weren't forced to learn it for my major. Until the next conversation. Good day sir
 
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slimreaper

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The southern American settlers didn't leave. They stayed, and tried to impose their will on the Mexican government, despite Mexico already compromising on several issues, slavery being one of them and one of the biggest. The people you're defending didn't even take your advice



The Southern American settlers were given land (more than just Texas, 7 of our current states), citizenship, and protection, by the Mexican government. They were allowed to keep their slaves. They were allowed other accommodations that were illegal in Mexico. Yet they still refused to follow even some of the most basic laws of their new country and meet their government half-way. They didn't pay taxes, or sell off Mexican ports. They attacked Mexican soldiers, and provoked a war against a nation who hadn't even been independent for 20 years, taking a massive portion of their newly acquired territory.

Imagine the US giving citizenship to an illegal, giving him free land and supplies, protecting him with our government, and bending several laws despite other naturally born Americans having to follow the laws to its specifics, tolerating the newly US citizen not paying taxes, and in return the ex-illegal attacks a US soldier all because the government didn't want to budge on giving them a gun permit (referencing the cannon issue). Now imagine a group of people doing that to us. That's not bad to you? That's ok to you? Treason...is not bad...ok..to you? Ok kid.

Again, these were Southern American slave owners we are talking about, who's "bad" past is well documented, even beyond slavery. They didn't represent the entire US. The North (where the government was) only got involved because of the Alamo (which again, was a retaliation, the southern american immigrants attacked first in the Battle of Gonzales) and did give Mexico $15 million, albeit a small amount for so much land taken. So as I said in my original post, we are talking about a small group of whites, not all of them. Unless you have some historical truth to your remarks beyond "Taking texas because they won", sshhh.





It is not my view. I told you historical fact. You can fact check it and learn more (you clearly should), in the Library of Congress. They have a website. Put that phone of yours to more scholarly use.




False. You're being a sheep again. Losing the undocumented workers we currently have in the US would equate to over a trillion dollar net loss to our GDP. Again, feel free to put that phone of yours to better use. Undocumented workers also contribute billions in both state and local taxes. Undocumented worker are also not eligible for most public benefits as they don't have the paperwork, which should've been an obvious thing to you, but I know how sheep are.

From both a historical and economical perspective, undocumented workers have always been a benefit to the country, mainly due to their involvement in agriculture and infrastructure, the countries two founding industries. Thus the reason the US has always welcomed Mexican immigration, except in times of economic crisis, crisis, that the immigrants didn't contribute to. Notice I said "Mexican", as even during times of Mexican immigration surplus encouraged by the government, other immigrants weren't allowed access as easily. All of this can be fact checked. Since I have to deal with this information on a daily basis in my school studies, I'll leave the research to the one who needs it most.





You acknowledge there is evil in all groups, yet you made such a fuss over talking about the evils of your own? The same person who constantly posts threads referring to the bad sides of other races, particularly black people. But that's ok. We're all hypocritical from time to time.

As far as your last statement, bravo sir. You'll gladly take the title most evil, because, in your mind, that means you're at the top. Throughout history, in many different cultures, the root of many dark events stem from a willingness to embrace evil out of a superiority complex.

This will be the last post from me on this topic. It's clear you're only armed with viewpoints rather than supportive facts, so no need for a lengthy convo like our previous encounters. Which is ok, at least your have an opinion. I wouldn't even know the historical or economical implications if I weren't forced to learn it for my major. Until the next conversation. Good day sir

see there your dumb ass goes again trying to paint the Mexicans as innocent. And I'm just armed with my view point? get the **** outta here with that bullshit.

Mexico threw out the constitution(the constitution of 1824) the Texans immigrated under and became more dictatorial.

If that happened in America if they just threw out the constitution and became a dictatorship, you'd expect the legal immigrants here to just take it?


**** off dumb ass with your constant need to question my intelligence. Inferiority complex at it's finest.


I made a fuss because My group is the only group held to the standard of past evils in current America.

In "my mind" I'm at the top? No dog, In facts i'm at the top it's evident in the standing of white folks in America. You wanna take it, I'm gonna keep it. It's that simple
 
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Multiply

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see there your dumb ass goes again trying to paint the Mexicans as innocent. And I'm just armed with my view point? get the **** outta here with that bullshit.

Mexico threw out the constitution(the constitution of 1824) the Texans immigrated under and became more dictatorial.

If that happened in America if they just threw out the constitution and became a dictatorship, you'd expect the legal immigrants here to just take it?


**** off dumb ass with your constant need to question my intelligence. Inferiority complex at it's finest.
Bruh you lost. :lol.

You said a lot of nothing in this post.
 

slimreaper

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Bruh you lost. :lol.

You said a lot of nothing in this post.

"bruh" you biased. You claim white folks wanna whitewash slavery, yet it was white folks that freed you.


So If we just threw out the constitution tomorrow and made obama dictator, you'd expect the people to just be cool with that and not revolt? And the people would be the bad guys for not taking it?

But I said nothing? yeah ok. Nah I just didn't need a wall to say it
 
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