[VS] Admiral Kizaru (borsalino) Vs. Admiral Akainu

[Punk Hazard]

That's bs riker logic for apparently doffys allies that's not kaido and Moriahs zombies can match a yonko or two.

Not at all what I said.

Marco, Vista and company went into an unsuspecting Akainu who was not even looking at them with force unguarded attacks and he simply called them annoying...

meanwhile:

Rayleigh has a simple skirmish with Kizaru while grinning and carefree: leaves him bleeding on the cheek...

That's the difference

Except Rayleigh's portrayal in his "skirmish" with Kizaru was garbage. Rayleigh is using his main means of combat while Kizaru is using a side course, and what happens?

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Your "grinning" turns into sweating and breathing hard. Your "carefree" turns into Rayleigh getting tired while Kizaru is doing perfectly fine. Now imagine if Kizaru was using his actual main means of combat, what would happen to Rayleigh who's already using what he's best at and already getting fatigued?

BTW:

Old Rayleigh with stress(trying to fight many things at once, Kizaru even mentioned "You're making me look bad worrying about them facing me") etc cancelled out Kizaru while mentioning at this age he is not as good as he used to be.

Cancelled out Kizaru while Kizaru was using a sword, when we know Kizaru's main methods of attack to be beams of light and kicks. The fact that Rayleigh was making Kizaru fatigued through swordplay when Kizaru isn't even a swordsman reflects badly on Rayleigh.

Also, Kizaru's "You're making me look bad," is downplayed by the fact that Kizaru says shit like that about even Luffy, calling him "scary" and saying his group are "monsters."

Meaning Prime Rayleigh > or >> Kizaru. Rayleigh = Vice Captain of Oro Jackson. Assuming from all ships in the series captains always >> Vice Captains THEREFORE I conclude Prime Roger >> Prime Rayleigh > or >> Kizaru

Premise is flawed because Rayleigh was losing a sword duel to someone who isn't primarily a swordsman. Nothing about that reflects that prime Rayleigh>>Kizaru.Nothing also suggest that Roger>>Rayleigh as opposed to the two being very close in strength with Roger just being stronger. You're pulling all of this out of your ass.

 

[arv993]

Not at all what I said.


Except Rayleigh's portrayal in his "skirmish" with Kizaru was garbage. Rayleigh is using his main means of combat while Kizaru is using a side course, and what happens?

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Your "grinning" turns into sweating and breathing hard. Your "carefree" turns into Rayleigh getting tired while Kizaru is doing perfectly fine. Now imagine if Kizaru was using his actual main means of combat, what would happen to Rayleigh who's already using what he's best at and already getting fatigued?




Cancelled out Kizaru while Kizaru was using a sword, when we know Kizaru's main methods of attack to be beams of light and kicks. The fact that Rayleigh was making Kizaru fatigued through swordplay when Kizaru isn't even a swordsman reflects badly on Rayleigh.

Also, Kizaru's "You're making me look bad," is downplayed by the fact that Kizaru says shit like that about even Luffy, calling him "scary" and saying his group are "monsters."



Premise is flawed because Rayleigh was losing a sword duel to someone who isn't primarily a swordsman. Nothing about that reflects that prime Rayleigh>>Kizaru.Nothing also suggest that Roger>>Rayleigh as opposed to the two being very close in strength with Roger just being stronger. You're pulling all of this out of your ass.

It's right there in your own post unless you changed your mind and admitted you were wrong regardless there's no justification for schibukai with a crew equaling yonko or navy. Doffy and Moriah are the only ones with legit crews so shouldn't they equal a yonko by your logic. Or maybe some of those monkeys that mihawk has are yonko commander level yes that must be it lmaoo.

And I don't really care too much about the kizaru vs Rayleigh argument but he says himself that keeping an admiral at bay isn't enough lol and you're comparing it to luffy being called scary that's the epitome of crappy logic. Luffys scary cuz of his potential he's a kid who was at a high level for his age.

 

[Punk Hazard]

It's right there in your own post unless you changed your mind and admitted you were wrong regardless there's no justification for schibukai with a crew equaling yonko or navy. Doffy and Moriah are the only ones with legit crews so shouldn't they equal a yonko by your logic.

They have armies of fodder at their disposal. The WB war was by, a vast majority, fodder, and they still triumphed tremendously over one Yonko crew. If you add in all the Yonko, you can simply add all the allies and subordinates of the Warlords, such as Boa's kingdom of warriors and the allies Doflamingo has through trading through Dressrosa. A war between all Shichibukai and Yonko are just gonna be mostly armies of fodder throwing themselves at each other.

 

[arv993]

They have armies of fodder at their disposal. The WB war was by, a vast majority, fodder, and they still triumphed tremendously over one Yonko crew. If you add in all the Yonko, you can simply add all the allies and subordinates of the Warlords, such as Boa's kingdom of warriors and the allies Doflamingo has through trading through Dressrosa. A war between all Shichibukai and Yonko are just gonna be mostly armies of fodder throwing themselves at each other.

Are you on drugs armies of fodder are pointless against ppl like shanks. He is someone who can take out at least 50,000 ppl at once which I believe is the number luffy took out. Top tiers make or break an organization which is why the navy was super pissed when Aokiji left but they made up for it with new admirals. And kaido has high level fodder with dfs and he has wano kingdom which is a strong country behind him. Even with fodder yonko have the edge. Marines won because they had 4 top tiers while wb was one and Marco can stalemate one due to his df and that was without mihawk even trying. Garp wasn't trying either. No shit marines would have won and they had home turf advantage. The yonko are world power due to their own strength and their crew mates being super strong. You think Roger with a smaller crew could be beaten by an army of fodder otherwise Shiki would have been the PK. I can keep destroying your weak bs argument but I want to see what kind of reaching your gonna pull this time.


Also are u suggesting that schibukai have more of an army than the navy? Please tell me you are joking.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Are you on drugs armies of fodder pointless against ppl like shanks at least who can take out 50,000 ppl at once which I believe is the number luffy took out.

Didn't bother reading past this because these scans all distinguish them as three separate entities that are equal to each other

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If it wasn't Shichi=Yonko=HQ, they wouldn't be the THREE powers, they would be the TWO Great Powers.

 

[arv993]

Didn't bother reading past this because these scans all distinguish them as three separate entities that are equal to each other

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If it wasn't Shichi=Yonko=HQ, they wouldn't be the THREE powers, they would be the TWO Great Powers.

Dude do u have reading comprehension issues? Garp says it right there that the navy and schibukai are allied together to stop these 4 pirates.and great powers do not mean they are equal, they have great influence and power individually but two of the great powers are allied against one. Keep taking L's as usual your own scans are directly going against ur argument

 

[HashiraMadara]

Your "grinning" turns into sweating and breathing hard. Your "carefree" turns into Rayleigh getting tired while Kizaru is doing perfectly fine. Now imagine if Kizaru was using his actual main means of combat, what would happen to Rayleigh who's already using what he's best at and already getting fatigued?




Cancelled out Kizaru while Kizaru was using a sword, when we know Kizaru's main methods of attack to be beams of light and kicks. The fact that Rayleigh was making Kizaru fatigued through swordplay when Kizaru isn't even a swordsman reflects badly on Rayleigh.

Also, Kizaru's "You're making me look bad," is downplayed by the fact that Kizaru says shit like that about even Luffy, calling him "scary" and saying his group are "monsters."

I like how you skipped of the pages at the start of the battle were Rayleigh was simply smiling etc and went to the ones he was panicking for the Straw-hats

Premise is flawed because Rayleigh was losing a sword duel to someone who isn't primarily a swordsman. Nothing about that reflects that prime Rayleigh>>Kizaru.

Kizaru said it "I simply cannot let a man like you walk around freely. I need to capture you" so to me he failed to capture him, I don't care what method of combat he used meaning this Rayleigh is = Kizaru since neither could overpower the other. Even Garp mentioned Rayleigh must be ignored and not be reported because they cannot handle 2 legends at once(Newgate).
To add on that a Prime Rayleigh is > or >> to a Rayleigh that cancelled out Kizaru.(he mentioned how he is not good as he used to)

Nothing also suggest that Roger>>Rayleigh as opposed to the two being very close in strength with Roger just being stronger. You're pulling all of this out of your ass.

Nope it's not an asspull. It's called proof by induction in Mathematics. If (x-1), x, (x+1) fit the equation then by induction (x+2) fits the equation:

All ships in the One Piece world have been shown to have Captains >> Right Hand Man. Until you show me a ship with captain = right hand man this is a mathematically valid logic. So Prime Roger >> Rayleigh

 

[arv993]

I like how you skipped of the pages at the start of the battle were Rayleigh was simply smiling etc and went to the ones he was panicking for the Straw-hats


Kizaru said it "I simply cannot let a man like you walk around freely. I need to capture you" so to me he failed to capture him, I don't care what method of combat he used meaning this Rayleigh is = Kizaru since neither could overpower the other. Even Garp mentioned Rayleigh must be ignored and not be reported because they cannot handle 2 legends at once(Newgate).
To add on that a Prime Rayleigh is > or >> to a Rayleigh that cancelled out Kizaru.(he mentioned how he is not good as he used to)[/COLOR][/B]


Nope it's not an asspull. It's called proof by induction in Mathematics. If (x-1), x, (x+1) fit the equation then by induction (x+2) fits the equation:

All ships in the One Piece world have been shown to have Captains >> Right Hand Man. Until you show me a ship with captain = right hand man this is a mathematically valid logic. So Prime Roger >> Rayleigh

I agree with all the kizaru stuff but why can't a vice captain be close to his captain in strength? Zoro's end goal is mihawk who is a shanks level guy, do u really think luffy would be far superior to that. And second don't bring math into manga arguments it's just out of place lol.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I like how you skipped of the pages at the start of the battle were Rayleigh was simply smiling etc and went to the ones he was panicking for the Straw-hats

Because those panels don't matter. The panels of Rayleigh sweating, panting, and becoming tired DURING BATTLE matters more than Rayleigh smiling BEFORE BATTLE. All that means is that Rayleigh was overconfident, and Kizaru showed him why.

I don't care what method of combat he used meaning this Rayleigh is = Kizaru since neither could overpower the other.

This is stupid as ****. If current Rayleigh at his best=Kizaru not using his best, then it means that Kizaru>Current Rayleigh.

Even Garp mentioned Rayleigh must be ignored and not be reported because they cannot handle 2 legends at once(Newgate).
To add on that a Prime Rayleigh is > or >> to a Rayleigh that cancelled out Kizaru.(he mentioned how he is not good as he used to)

This is because they needed all available men to go to Marineford in preparation for the war at Whitebeard. No one is denying that Rayleigh has clout, he just has less clout than someone like Kizaru and by portrayal, Whitebeard.

 

[Luther]

Akainu takes this extreme difficulty, at the end of the day i think his devil fruit which is arguable one of the strongest in OP takes it.