[VS] Ace vs Urouge

[Jugram Haschwalth]

No he doesn't really ace has better feats then ppl give him credit for. especially stamina as he was able to fight 5 days straight whereas his brother who everyone ranks ahead of him cannot even fight for 1 day

Sure sabo low diffed a vice admiral.
But law did that with vergo once he got his heart back and mid diffed smoker(using law because low doffing a vice admiral is not that impressive compared to the way pll over hype sabo)

Also I believe ace clashed briefly with smoker

Sabo clashed and briefly fought a non serious Fuji

Ace clashed with a very serious akoiji

Both r called the second commander or 2nd man ... etc one for the most wanted man alive the other for the worlds strongest man


No I do not think sabo is weaker then ace before someone says that

I just feel like ppl down play ace... and act as if he has no feats fine he got killed off by akainu

But who wouldn't that's not top tier Luffy law zoro sabo would all get the ace treatment granted not as easily but also keep in mind ace was protecting Luffy -/-

Bunch of irrelevance here honestly. Ace fought against BB and got wrecked. Ace and Aokiji just clashed for a brief moment and that means nothing when that clash was based solely on their DF. Anyone bar absolute fodder could have fought back Aokiji Ace with the Mera Mera so that isn't an impressive feat. Ace did clash with Smoker and made nothing of it. Law wasn't even going serious on Smoker and made short work of him.

Why mention Vergo when by feats he'd pound Ace to. Him being 2nd in command means 0 when Jozu who holds an inferior rank by feats would also pound Ace.

 

[Passerby]

No he doesn't really ace has better feats then ppl give him credit for. especially stamina as he was able to fight 5 days straight whereas his brother who everyone ranks ahead of him cannot even fight for 1 day

Sure sabo low diffed a vice admiral.
But law did that with vergo once he got his heart back and mid diffed smoker(using law because low doffing a vice admiral is not that impressive compared to the way pll over hype sabo)

Also I believe ace clashed briefly with smoker

Sabo clashed and briefly fought a non serious Fuji

Ace clashed with a very serious akoiji

Both r called the second commander or 2nd man ... etc one for the most wanted man alive the other for the worlds strongest man


No I do not think sabo is weaker then ace before someone says that

I just feel like ppl down play ace... and act as if he has no feats fine he got killed off by akainu

But who wouldn't that's not top tier Luffy law zoro sabo would all get the ace treatment granted not as easily but also keep in mind ace was protecting Luffy -/-

So? Sabo would stomp Jimbei so bad comparison.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Well we'll find out Like I said top 5 is a safe bet, top 3 is just a possibility. Not to mention Vista could end up being top 3 commanders, but as of right now I'll stick with Ace being the 3rd.




Lol well Beckman is on the right side of Shanks which implies he's the right hand even going by that panel.

True but what's more significant the right hand man or the replacing the missing hand? Beckman's assisting what's still there Yasopp's replacing what's been lost. If we went front to back it'd be Shanks,Yasopp,Ben,Guy behind Yasopp. Lucky Roo, Guy behind Ben, Guy with monkey, Scopper.
But I wouldn't actually put too much stock into that photo.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Do you think the 3 Calamities are inferior to WB's 3 Commanders?
Do you think Marco can beat Jack? Or at least does he even have the physical strength to kill Jack when not even that huge ass elephant couldnt kill him.
And what if the other 2 Calamities are stonger than Jack? And since Kaido is hyped to be strongest Pirate wouldnt it be logical for him to have the strongest crew?

The logical fallacies are running rampant here lately. Just because something happened one way in the one time it was shown in the manga doesn't mean it can't happen other ways. Zunisha couldn't kill Jack? You mean from the one hit? Whoopty doo. You saw what one hit from Zunisha did and you think it couldn't kill Jack if it wanted to? Any commander will be hitting him more than once so why even compare their assault to a one hit instance?

And on the note of commanders why do you think it would be Marco to fight him? Jack's not the 1st seat so it's unlikely Marco would fight him. More likely would be powerhouse v powerhouse so it would be Jozu fighting him, not that he'd be able to take out Marco with his movements and healing anyway.

Kaidou was hyped to be the strongest pirate after WB who was hyped to be the strongest pirate died so yeah WB's crew is probably slightly above most other Yonkou crew members.

 

[arv993]

The logical fallacies are running rampant here lately. Just because something happened one way in the one time it was shown in the manga doesn't mean it can't happen other ways. Zunisha couldn't kill Jack? You mean from the one hit? Whoopty doo. You saw what one hit from Zunisha did and you think it couldn't kill Jack if it wanted to? Any commander will be hitting him more than once so why even compare their assault to a one hit instance?

And on the note of commanders why do you think it would be Marco to fight him? Jack's not the 1st seat so it's unlikely Marco would fight him. More likely would be powerhouse v powerhouse so it would be Jozu fighting him, not that he'd be able to take out Marco with his movements and healing anyway.

Kaidou was hyped to be the strongest pirate after WB who was hyped to be the strongest pirate died so yeah WB's crew is probably slightly above most other Yonkou crew members.

Jack had excellent portrayal and feats he's more durable than jozu from what it seems like, he has incredible stamina and strength and came with minor injuries from a brief scuffle and he's probably not even the strongest calamity under Kaido. I wouldn't automatically assume wb commanders> kaido's commanders. Jozu and vista don't seem to be up to par with him.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Jack had excellent portrayal and feats he's more durable than jozu from what it seems like, he has incredible stamina and strength and came with minor injuries from a brief scuffle and he's probably not even the strongest calamity under Kaido. I wouldn't automatically assume wb commanders> kaido's commanders. Jozu and vista don't seem to be up to par with him.

Jozu is literally one of if not the strongest material in the OP World, Jacks defense needs to be that high to be on par with Jozu's. I don't assume it as fact though I assume it as a likely possibility.

 

[arv993]

Jozu is literally one of if not the strongest material in the OP World, Jacks defense needs to be that high to be on par with Jozu's. I don't assume it as fact though I assume it as a likely possibility.

But his portrayal was bad he lost pretty fast to Aokiji, he gets caught by Doffy. I agree his durability theoretically should be amazing but OdA made him look very vulnerable whereas jack comes off as durable beast who took on very high level opponents for 5 days. By portrayal I got to side with jack.

 

[chopstickchakra]

But his portrayal was bad he lost pretty fast to Aokiji, he gets caught by Doffy. I agree his durability theoretically should be amazing but OdA made him look very vulnerable whereas jack comes off as durable beast who took on very high level opponents for 5 days. By portrayal I got to side with jack.

I wouldn't say losing to Aokiji is a negative on anyone's portrayal though especially since he's still gonna be around taking on top tiers to come.

Plus we need to take into the typical progression factor, as a manga moves on new showings typically over shadow previous showings, we can't really compare part 1 showings to part 2 showings that accurately.

Also Jack's yet to fight an Admiral, Zunisha, Duka and Neko probably aren't Admiral level so we don't even really have a comparable opponent between the two.

If we wanna bring length into this we can safely say Jozu is right around or slightly above Ace within WB pirates and Ace was able to fight Jinbei(also a very high level opponent, arguably more so than Duke and Neko but again no real comparison to verify) for 5 days. It's likely most top tiers can pull off day long fights with the power levels we're getting into now.

 

[arv993]

I wouldn't say losing to Aokiji is a negative on anyone's portrayal though especially since he's still gonna be around taking on top tiers to come.

Plus we need to take into the typical progression factor, as a manga moves on new showings typically over shadow previous showings, we can't really compare part 1 showings to part 2 showings that accurately.

Also Jack's yet to fight an Admiral, Zunisha, Duka and Neko probably aren't Admiral level so we don't even really have a comparable opponent between the two.

If we wanna bring length into this we can safely say Jozu is right around or slightly above Ace within WB pirates and Ace was able to fight Jinbei(also a very high level opponent, arguably more so than Duke and Neko but again no real comparison to verify) for 5 days. It's likely most top tiers can pull off day long fights with the power levels we're getting into now.

I get what ur saying with the timeskip but that's all we have to base on for now. Jozu losing to Aokiji real fast is an issue where as Marco could actually continually fight with one. And the Doffy thing didn't help.

Jozu is definitely above ace without a doubt. And neko and inu are much stronger than jimbei there is no doubt about it, their hype and feats are beyond jimbei. Jack took all those attacks and days of fighting high level opponents and still was standing. Oda made him destroy marine ships with an admiral and sengoku and still live to tell the tale sure u could say we don't kno the circumstances but it adds to his previous hype and having a billion bounty. He gets a ton of hype which Jozu can't match for the time being. And cracker is stronger than luffy individually and it's safe to put jack above him due to his hype being above cracker as well along with the bounty.

For the time being jack looks better without a doubt until we see more of Jozu no way would I go around saying Kaido's subordinates are weaker than WB's. And hes likely not the strongest one of the calamities.

 

[chopstickchakra]

I get what ur saying with the timeskip but that's all we have to base on for now. Jozu losing to Aokiji real fast is an issue where as Marco could actually continually fight with one. And the Doffy thing didn't help.

Jozu is definitely above ace without a doubt. And neko and inu are much stronger than jimbei there is no doubt about it, their hype and feats are beyond jimbei. Jack took all those attacks and days of fighting high level opponents and still was standing. Oda made him destroy marine ships with an admiral and sengoku and still live to tell the tale sure u could say we don't kno the circumstances but it adds to his previous hype and having a billion bounty. He gets a ton of hype which Jozu can't match for the time being. And cracker is stronger than luffy individually and it's safe to put jack above him due to his hype being above cracker as well along with the bounty.

For the time being jack looks better without a doubt until we see more of Jozu no way would I go around saying Kaido's subordinates are weaker than WB's. And hes likely not the strongest one of the calamities.

What hype do Duke and Neko have that's above Jinbei's? Their biggest hype is meeting Roger and being Kings. The two of them on shifts fought for 5 days something Jinbei did on his own so that's not hype over hype and if Ace was able to fight 5 days Jozu should be able to as well. What feats do they have? Stalemating Jack? Is that really that much more impressive a feat than gaining the Shichibukai title?

Rethinking, I agree they're probably not weaker seeing as how they'll still be relevant to the story whereas WB commanders have passed their time so the remaining Yonkou's Commanders might just be stronger. It's starting to feel like each Yonkou will have a speed commander(Marco,...,...) a tank(Jozu,Jack,Cracker) and an all around/fighter(Ace/Vista,...,...) I still don't really agree that Jinbei is below either Duke or Neko though.

 

[arv993]

What hype do Duke and Neko have that's above Jinbei's? Their biggest hype is meeting Roger and being Kings. The two of them on shifts fought for 5 days something Jinbei did on his own so that's not hype over hype and if Ace was able to fight 5 days Jozu should be able to as well. What feats do they have? Stalemating Jack? Is that really that much more impressive a feat than gaining the Shichibukai title?

Rethinking, I agree they're probably not weaker seeing as how they'll still be relevant to the story whereas WB commanders have passed their time so the remaining Yonkou's Commanders might just be stronger. It's starting to feel like each Yonkou will have a speed commander(Marco,...,...) a tank(Jozu,Jack,Cracker) and an all around/fighter(Ace/Vista,...,...) I still don't really agree that Jinbei is below either Duke or Neko though.

Ok great we can agree on the yonko commanders part. Jimbei is not stronger than luffy that's not even up for debate. Neko and inu can individually fight jack for 12 hours most ppl would win/lose by then so the difference in combat strength between jack and then isn't high but jack is better stamina wise. Do u think luffy in his current state can fight jack like that absolutely not, he has power but would lose to jack and he's weaker than cracker for which he needed help. So it's easy to see how jimbei is not on the same level as inu and neko. And I don't have to prove jacks hype I've mentioned it in my previous post and inu and jack got feats of matching the guy for 12 hours which is longer than most fights.

Schibukai title is not as impressive due to large variation in power that comes with the title and croc, buggy etc are proof of that. Jimbei also got it by being the representative of fishman island.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Ok great we can agree on the yonko commanders part. Jimbei is not stronger than luffy that's not even up for debate. Neko and inu can individually fight jack for 12 hours most ppl would win/lose by then so the difference in combat strength between jack and then isn't high but jack is better stamina wise. Do u think luffy in his current state can fight jack like that absolutely not, he has power but would lose to jack and he's weaker than cracker for which he needed help. So it's easy to see how jimbei is not on the same level as inu and neko. And I don't have to prove jacks hype I've mentioned it in my previous post and inu and jack got feats of matching the guy for 12 hours which is longer than most fights.

Schibukai title is not as impressive due to large variation in power that comes with the title and croc, buggy etc are proof of that. Jimbei also got it by being the representative of fishman island.

Why wouldn't he? Luffy just got done "fighting" a 12 hour fight. I honestly don't think Jack would even be able to hit him unless it's when Luffy charges in for an attack of his own.

Now I know it's unlikely a Yonkou commander wouldn't have Haki but we know Ace failed to show it so by using that we can argue not every Yonkou commander absolutely has haki and since Jack never showed it and we know commanders exist without it then we can't just assume Jack has it because it'd make the discussion more interesting. If Jack has no haki which he hasn't shown to have, then how would he hurt Luffy?

Did Jinbe get his level 6 prisoner status from being the representative of FI too? Come on now, I know it's been awhile so people are starting to forget Jinbe's portrayal, but you're actively trying to downplay him. The 12 hour fight is quickly dropping from it's level of impressiveness as well, Luffy just got done a 12 hour fight and he's not even top of the food chain yet, we've heard of a 5 day fight and a 10 day fight, the whole DR incident took hours. Fights coming are likely to start at hours long fights as the easier fights and day long fights/battles for the big fights.

 

[arv993]

Why wouldn't he? Luffy just got done "fighting" a 12 hour fight. I honestly don't think Jack would even be able to hit him unless it's when Luffy charges in for an attack of his own.

Now I know it's unlikely a Yonkou commander wouldn't have Haki but we know Ace failed to show it so by using that we can argue not every Yonkou commander absolutely has haki and since Jack never showed it and we know commanders exist without it then we can't just assume Jack has it because it'd make the discussion more interesting. If Jack has no haki which he hasn't shown to have, then how would he hurt Luffy?

Did Jinbe get his level 6 prisoner status from being the representative of FI too? Come on now, I know it's been awhile so people are starting to forget Jinbe's portrayal, but you're actively trying to downplay him. The 12 hour fight is quickly dropping from it's level of impressiveness as well, Luffy just got done a 12 hour fight and he's not even top of the food chain yet, we've heard of a 5 day fight and a 10 day fight, the whole DR incident took hours. Fights coming are likely to start at hours long fights as the easier fights and day long fights/battles for the big fights.

Luffy lasted 12 hours by eating biscuits and running away while having help from nami and the forest homies. Not nearly the same as matching a guy straight for 12 hours and the guy is shown in a better light than cracker. Luffy atm is not beating jack from portrayal.

Yea he hasn't shown but do u honestly believe that a calamity is not going to have haki post time skip and ace wasn't even close to his prime years so him not having haki makes way more sense than jack not having it. Jimbei matched a rookie ace for 5 days not even his strongest version so 5 day battle between two weaker ppl isn't as impressive as keeping up with jack plain and simple. Jimbei is no weakling so he got placed in level 6 the guy is pretty strong but would I say he can challenge jack absolutely not.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Luffy lasted 12 hours by eating biscuits and running away while having help from nami and the forest homies. Not nearly the same as matching a guy straight for 12 hours and the guy is shown in a better light than cracker. Luffy atm is not beating jack from portrayal.

Yea he hasn't shown but do u honestly believe that a calamity is not going to have haki post time skip and ace wasn't even close to his prime years so him not having haki makes way more sense than jack not having it. Jimbei matched a rookie ace for 5 days not even his strongest version so 5 day battle between two weaker ppl isn't as impressive as keeping up with jack plain and simple. Jimbei is no weakling so he got placed in level 6 the guy is pretty strong but would I say he can challenge jack absolutely not.

No I don't, I don't like the idea that any Yonkou commander didn't have haki, no need to get onto Ace because I actually think he should have it and should have been given a showing using it but that's neither here nor there. Seems we'll have to agree to disagree about Jinbe/Jack at least until we see some more from both. Jack may get some new showing to solidify why Jinbe couldn't win, Jinbe may get some new showing that opens up doubt.

I'd just add this; it's weird people assume the M3 will take on Kaidou's calamities(I've seen some say Jack/Zoro and some say Jack/Sanji) and people assume if Jinbe joined he'd change up the M3 yet people aren't assuming Jinbe could hang with a Calamity.

 

[arv993]

No I don't, I don't like the idea that any Yonkou commander didn't have haki, no need to get onto Ace because I actually think he should have it and should have been given a showing using it but that's neither here nor there. Seems we'll have to agree to disagree about Jinbe/Jack at least until we see some more from both. Jack may get some new showing to solidify why Jinbe couldn't win, Jinbe may get some new showing that opens up doubt.

I'd just add this; it's weird people assume the M3 will take on Kaidou's calamities(I've seen some say Jack/Zoro and some say Jack/Sanji) and people assume if Jinbe joined he'd change up the M3 yet people aren't assuming Jinbe could hang with a Calamity.

if ace was in post time skip he would have definitely had it. haki is one of the things oda wasnt too consistent on. Do u think jimbei is on crackers or luffys level? honestly

they say that because they both use swords or jack uses some form of it, zoro hasnt gone all out yet so ppl say he would be a matchup for him zoro still should be weaker than jack and if he were to win he gets help and go all out which is what im leaning towards, luffy as of rn cant beat him, he is weaker than cracker i doubt hes better than jack until he gets another form or does his fight with help from ppl.

 

[chopstickchakra]

if ace was in post time skip he would have definitely had it. haki is one of the things oda wasnt too consistent on. Do u think jimbei is on crackers or luffys level? honestly

they say that because they both use swords or jack uses some form of it, zoro hasnt gone all out yet so ppl say he would be a matchup for him zoro still should be weaker than jack and if he were to win he gets help and go all out which is what im leaning towards, luffy as of rn cant beat him, he is weaker than cracker i doubt hes better than jack until he gets another form or does his fight with help from ppl.

Cracker yes because of the weakness to water but he's also strong enough to break a cracker I would guess. He'd lose to Luffy now with G4 but idk that he couldn't push G3. I just rewatched the fight at FI and Jinbei blocked a Jet Stamp without moving, damaged Luffy, fight ended in a draw. Also he manhandled him pre skip and though he didn't grow at the same rate as Luffy he probably grew at a close pace.

Ace really should have had it then if we think about it. He was always the head of the ASL trio and he set out to sail 2 years before Luffy(3?) Ace had reached the age Luffy was when he learned haki and Sabo had learned haki after recovering with Dragon so Ace being the front of the trio should have had it by his execution as well.

 

[MasqueradeNX]

I think Urouge wins this High Diff

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

The logical fallacies are running rampant here lately. Just because something happened one way in the one time it was shown in the manga doesn't mean it can't happen other ways. Zunisha couldn't kill Jack? You mean from the one hit? Whoopty doo. You saw what one hit from Zunisha did and you think it couldn't kill Jack if it wanted to? Any commander will be hitting him more than once so why even compare their assault to a one hit instance?

And on the note of commanders why do you think it would be Marco to fight him? Jack's not the 1st seat so it's unlikely Marco would fight him. More likely would be powerhouse v powerhouse so it would be Jozu fighting him, not that he'd be able to take out Marco with his movements and healing anyway.

Kaidou was hyped to be the strongest pirate after WB who was hyped to be the strongest pirate died so yeah WB's crew is probably slightly above most other Yonkou crew members.

WB being the strongest doesnt make his crewmates stronger than other Yonko crewmates. Doffy was stronger than Luffy, but Zoro can beat Doffy's first mate.