[VS] Ace vs Nekomamushi/Inuarashi

[Punk Hazard]

He can definitely beat G4 Luffy due to bad match up, but he's on Sabo and Doflamingos and G4s level pretty much. Its just that I notice he tends to be put on this pedestal above these guys but weaker than Admirals which I don't understand.

How do you be on two different levels at once?

Sabo and Doflamingo's level, aside from being above Luffy, is mostly inconclusive at this point. Sabo seems below Fujitora for the most part. Then there's Doflamingo was dodging and shrugging off attacks that were pushing back Fujitora and bruising him(former is understandable due to him holding back, the latter not so much). Doflamingo is probably on the level where he'd mid diff lose against an Admiral, probably close to high diff, while Luffy is on a low, maybe mid diff level.

 

[OG sama]

How do you be on two different levels at once?

Sabo and Doflamingo's level, aside from being above Luffy, is mostly inconclusive at this point. Sabo seems below Fujitora for the most part. Then there's Doflamingo was dodging and shrugging off attacks that were pushing back Fujitora and bruising him(former is understandable due to him holding back, the latter not so much). Doflamingo is probably on the level where he'd mid diff lose against an Admiral, probably close to high diff, while Luffy is on a low, maybe mid diff level.

Because of G4 and its time limit, G4 was > Doflamingo, the only reason Doflamingo beats G4 is because it doesn't last long enough to beat Doflamingo. As far as stats go G4 is > Doflamingo in about every way based off feats from both, except stamina.

I guess I could put him below Doflamingo though considering we don know how long it can possibly last the next time we see it, nor do we know how long it would take to beat Doflamingo.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Because of G4 and its time limit, G4 was > Doflamingo, the only reason Doflamingo beats G4 is because it doesn't last long enough to beat Doflamingo. As far as stats go G4 is > Doflamingo in about every way based off feats from both, except stamina.

I guess I could put him below Doflamingo though considering we don know how long it can possibly last the next time we see it, nor do we know how long it would take to beat Doflamingo.

In brute strength, G4>Doffy, but that's not the only category of ability. In a fight, Luffy would lose. That puts Doflamingo above Luffy. The fact that Luffy couldn't beat a weakened Doflamingo without the help of dozens of people renders Luffy a level or two below Doflamingo.

I'd put Marco slightly higher than Doflamingo. I can see him extreme diffing Doffy.

 

[OG sama]

In brute strength, G4>Doffy, but that's not the only category of ability. In a fight, Luffy would lose. That puts Doflamingo above Luffy. The fact that Luffy couldn't beat a weakened Doflamingo without the help of dozens of people renders Luffy a level or two below Doflamingo.

I'd put Marco slightly higher than Doflamingo. I can see him extreme diffing Doffy.

So what do you suppose Luffy needs before he can actually win against flamingo? I just want to know your opinion on this, because I don't see any noticeable Haki boosts or a concrete time for which it would take G4 to beat a healthy Doflamingo for future arcs. Maybe this sounds dumb to you but still, its just been in my head for a while.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

In brute strength, G4>Doffy, but that's not the only category of ability. In a fight, Luffy would lose. That puts Doflamingo above Luffy. The fact that a weakened Luffy couldn't beat a weakened Doflamingo without the help of dozens of people renders Luffy a level or two below Doflamingo.

I'd put Marco slightly higher than Doflamingo. I can see him extreme diffing Doffy.

Fixed your post.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Fixed your post.

Oh please. Weakened from what? Bellamy? A dude Luffy can one-shot is gonna do the same damage Law can do?

So what do you suppose Luffy needs before he can actually win against flamingo? I just want to know your opinion on this, because I don't see any noticeable Haki boosts or a concrete time for which it would take G4 to beat a healthy Doflamingo for future arcs. Maybe this sounds dumb to you but still, its just been in my head for a while.

More stamina/endurance and speed.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Oh please. Weakened from what? Bellamy? A dude Luffy can one-shot is gonna do the same damage Law can do?



More stamina/endurance and speed.

Doflamingo said that Luffy had taken quite a bit of damage.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Doflamingo said that Luffy had taken quite a bit of damage.

And Doflamingo has medical vision? You think Bellamy can knock Luffy significantly down from hist best?

 

[ssjelf]

And Doflamingo has medical vision? You think Bellamy can knock Luffy significantly down from hist best?

Anyone can let anyone take them down from their best.

And yes significantly, we always judge these fights by "oh look he was bleeding or panting or or scratches were on him" but conveniently fail to do so when it favors our argument. Yes luffy got beat up a good bit.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Anyone can let anyone take them down from their best.

And yes significantly, we always judge these fights by "oh look he was bleeding or panting or or scratches were on him" but conveniently fail to do so when it favors our argument. Yes luffy got beat up a good bit.

I highly doubt that someone weak enough to be one-shotted by a person is capable of exerting enough damage them in a few moments to weaken them significantly. Maybe over a longer course, but no way someone far enough below you to be one-shotted is gonna do significant damage worth taking into account in such a short span of time. Especially when a lot of damage Luffy had taken before that came from Doffy's actions and techniques.

 

[ssjelf]

I highly doubt that someone weak enough to be one-shotted by a person is capable of exerting enough damage them in a few moments to weaken them significantly. Maybe over a longer course, but no way someone far enough below you to be one-shotted is gonna do significant damage worth taking into account in such a short span of time. Especially when a lot of damage Luffy had taken before that came from Doffy's actions and techniques.

Im not saying doffy didn't hurt luffy. And also from my interpretation, luffy was stuck fighting bellamy for a good while.

 

[itachithelord]

Marco was said to be a possibility, the fact that BB took all of WBs territory and is now a Yonko proves that Marco and crew couldn't beat Teach and crew, you either agree to that or believe Marco never tried for some dumb reason. Marco hasn't done anything to suggest he's on some level above Sabo, Doflamingo, or even G4 Luffy. He just has a fruit that allows him to stall against practically anyone because the fruit will heal any wound no matter who hits him. Other than stalling, Marco couldn't harm the Admirals with any thing, he even had Vistas help against Akainu and the attack only tickled him.

Jacks position in a Yonkos crew added to the fact that his bounty is almost more than half of Aces added to the fact that Jack is either the next villain or a future Villain is enough for me to put him above Ace, who has already been surpassed by Luffy. No way is Luffy still so weak that the next villain or the next next villain is still weaker than Ace.

I wouldn't argue on either Marco tried or not but it can be well inferred that if he tried he wouldn't be defeated low/mid diff .. BB is possiby strongest yonko and has 2 df and both very strong ones so even marco losing high diff puts him in a YONKO tier.Marcos df allows him to fly, heal and practically get no injury at all . His kick was powerful enough to propel kizaru at such high speed , havent seen anyone in the series to propel a admiral level character at that speed . You also said his df stalls others attack , thats also a benefit in a battle as it worns out your enemy . MArco has got a high durability , even when shackled in seastone , he withstood laser attacks from kizaru , so marco in DD or G4 level is laughable in my opinion . He might be sabo level as in my opinion sabo now is admiral level , he was rev 2nd in command so he might have been very strong or equal to iva and added the mera mera no mi, he is admiral level thats where i keep marco .

Now , coming to next paragraph , jack's position in Yonko crew ,one of 3 calamities (We dont even know if they are top commanders but sill) , ACE was among top 3 commanders (2nd division) , as for bounty ace is not type of guy going around smashing cities and countries (which he could have done if wanted) so there it is about bounty ,,, as for luffy surpassing ace , luffy is nowhere near top commanders of yonko , he couldnt defeat even DD on his own , just because we only get to see most of luffy in series and ace is already dead doesnt give luffy auto upper hand ,,,

 

[OG sama]

I wouldn't argue on either Marco tried or not but it can be well inferred that if he tried he wouldn't be defeated low/mid diff .. BB is possiby strongest yonko and has 2 df and both very strong ones so even marco losing high diff puts him in a YONKO tier.Marcos df allows him to fly, heal and practically get no injury at all . His kick was powerful enough to propel kizaru at such high speed , havent seen anyone in the series to propel a admiral level character at that speed . You also said his df stalls others attack , thats also a benefit in a battle as it worns out your enemy . MArco has got a high durability , even when shackled in seastone , he withstood laser attacks from kizaru , so marco in DD or G4 level is laughable in my opinion . He might be sabo level as in my opinion sabo now is admiral level , he was rev 2nd in command so he might have been very strong or equal to iva and added the mera mera no mi, he is admiral level thats where i keep marco .

Now , coming to next paragraph , jack's position in Yonko crew ,one of 3 calamities (We dont even know if they are top commanders but sill) , ACE was among top 3 commanders (2nd division) , as for bounty ace is not type of guy going around smashing cities and countries (which he could have done if wanted) so there it is about bounty ,,, as for luffy surpassing ace , luffy is nowhere near top commanders of yonko , he couldnt defeat even DD on his own , just because we only get to see most of luffy in series and ace is already dead doesnt give luffy auto upper hand ,,,

This is pre skip Teach I'm talking about, Marco couldn't stop him from becoming the next Yonko which means even pre skip Gura Teach would have beat Marco. Also a pre skip Base Luffy kicked Aokiji all the way into the sky, but no one makes a big deal out of that so why should we make a big deal out of Marco doing it? Especially when the kick did no damage just like Luffy kicking Aokiji. Marco was nearly knocked unconscious from those laser attacks and when the shackles were removed he used his fruit to heal the damage, which means Marco doesn't have great durability just that his fruit healed it all. Also sea stone handcuffs don't make you fatigue like touching regular sea stone does, the sea stone it has to actually make contact with your body in order for you to be fatigued. How do I know this? Because Luffy on PH was shackled in chains and realize when ever he tried to move he would quickly fatigued. But Ace was cuffed in them and walking in them during the ID arc, we know when you touch sea stone you can't really walk on your own, so sea stone cuffs only stop you from using your DF, but doesn't add fatigue. Sabo being second in command means nothing at the moment, he along with the revolutionary army still has plenty of room to grow just like the future pirate king Luffy does, neither one of these guys are ready to take on the WG so Sabo being Admiral right now isn't happening. He also couldn't even scratch Fujitora, an admiral, but yet you put him on Admiral level? I find it funny that the people you think are Admiral couldn't even bruise an admiral, but the person you don't even think is close to Admiral level actually did, remember when Luffy hit Fujitora with a basic G3 attack and gave Fuji that bruise? And Fuji blocked the Attack and still got bruised, yet Sabo and Marco are on a different level for doing literally nothing to Admirals? That's what's laughable.

Ace was not in the Top 3, are you deliberately trying to ignore Jozu and Vista whos feats are much better than Aces? Ace being second in command is irrelevant, the WB pirates aren't ranked in power by divisions. Ace was like the fourth strongest which is not top 3.

 

[Bogard]

Sadly I think Ace will lose here. Neko has greater portrayal at the moment

 

[Fireplay]

We didn't see enough feats from Ace. In order to do this we have to know exactly how strong the Duke's are. Both lost to Jack therefore Jack>Duke's but we haven't seen how the Duke's fair against those that Ace has fought.

Oda tends to hype characters and then not put them at the level they were thought to be. Look at Kyros, people were saying he was Zoro level yet he's far from it. We have to see the Duke's fight someone who is on the same level as Ace. Jack>Ace clearly.

Going by feats the Neko and Inu>Ace. Ace has alot of hype but is madly lacking in feats.

 

[bajram]

We didn't see enough feats from Ace. In order to do this we have to know exactly how strong the Duke's are. Both lost to Jack therefore Jack>Duke's but we haven't seen how the Duke's fair against those that Ace has fought.

Oda tends to hype characters and then not put them at the level they were thought to be. Look at Kyros, people were saying he was Zoro level yet he's far from it. We have to see the Duke's fight someone who is on the same level as Ace. Jack>Ace clearly.

Going by feats the Neko and Inu>Ace. Ace has alot of hype but is madly lacking in feats.

Jack didnt defeat both dukes, the fight went on for 5 days and the minks as a whole were getting the upper hand on the Beast pirates, it was said that Jack was getting reinforcements constantly to help him fight the minks but even then the minks were able to keep fighting an even get the upper hand on them but the only one they werent able to put down at that point was Jack so its fair to say that the fight was going for a stalemate and that is when Jack pulled out the gas weapon to defeat the minks, its still not confirmed how strong is Jack or the Dukes but its pretty clear that Jack has to give his all to take out one duke with at least high diff and if he turns out to be the Marco of the Beast pirates then the dukes have got mad power, and the Ace we know in no way is able to pull something like that.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Ace is fodder he has shit durability and what makes it worst is that the people defending Ace is trying to even claim that the Dukes don't have haki? ANYBODY THAT IS JUST NOW BEING INTRODUCED AND CAN FIGHT ON PAR WITH AN EMPEROR'S 1ST,2ND OR 3RD MATE DEF HAS HAKI NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

 

[-Akuma-]

Ace is fodder he has shit durability and what makes it worst is that the people defending Ace is trying to even claim that the Dukes don't have haki? ANYBODY THAT IS JUST NOW BEING INTRODUCED AND CAN FIGHT ON PAR WITH AN EMPEROR'S 1ST,2ND OR 3RD MATE DEF HAS HAKI NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

What a stupid post.

 

[A v i]

Accuses people for saying that people who're strong enough to fight a Yonko commander do not have haki. Then claims that a Yonko commander himself doesn't have it. :yeah:

 

[TRE MERCER]

Accuses people for saying that people who're strong enough to fight a Yonko commander do not have haki. Then claims that a Yonko commander himself doesn't have it. :yeah:

When did i ever day Ace didn't have haki?