A Strange Question that needs views on.

[StraawHat]

That sounds like a poor mans words to me. What adversities would the children on the rich suffer through?

Whether or not it's the words of a man who is less fortunate than us it does not matter the important thing is that it's the words of a fellow man and we should all hear him out and respect what he has said

 

[basegirl]

it's not just obito and naruto....it's the whole story.
naruto as the series implies to the real world imperfections.....it has everything. love, hatred, honesty, loyalty, trust, friendship, pain and even WAR.... to me everything has a meaning in this series. EVERYTHING. that's why i follow it. to me this is more than a manga\anime, it a perfect reflection of people's doings and their souls.

 

[medal32]

Well its not just tobi, the whole series in general has a lot of IRL messages. Some of em are more obvious than others

 

[StraawHat]

it's not just obito and naruto....it's the whole story.
naruto as the series implies to the real world imperfections.....it has everything. love, hatred, honesty, loyalty, trust, friendship, pain and even WAR.... to me everything has a meaning in this series. EVERYTHING. that's why i follow it. to me this is more than a manga\anime, it a perfect reflection of people's doings and their souls.

I have similar beliefs as you then I see

 

[StraawHat]

Well its not just tobi, the whole series in general has a lot of IRL messages. Some of em are more obvious than others

I think it's Kishimoto's ways of expressing his thoughts of real world events

 

[StraawHat]

I would personally like to thank everyone who dedicated a small portion of their time even if you're just a guest seeing what i'm saying for reading or contributing to this, it really helped me a lot and I hope you all benefit from this as much as I did

 

[Draphsin]

Obito is really smart and he makes very valid points. The reason why rin died is whats driving his hate and its unterstandable to a point. Imho i think obitos plan would be a good idea, sort of like the matrix except there would be no war/famine/disease/and most importantly death. I agree with his plan, i just dont agree with the way he went about doing it

 

[StraawHat]

Obito is really smart and he makes very valid points. The reason why rin died is whats driving his hate and its unterstandable to a point. Imho i think obitos plan would be a good idea, sort of like the matrix except there would be no war/famine/disease/and most importantly death. I agree with his plan, i just dont agree with the way he went about doing it

Yes the death of a loved one is a huge desire to get back you try everyday to make yourself believe they will come back until you realise you're just in denail, but tbh if you think about it who would ever really take Obito seriously, who would willingly give up Naruto and Bee, the way i see it EOFM is not his or Madara's real plan to bring about peace weather they succeed or fail the end result will be the same

 

[YowYan]

Obviously. Most anime plots are reflections of real-life happenings

 

[StraawHat]

Obviously. Most anime plots are reflections of real-life happenings

But what i'm saying is I believe Kishimoto is making Obito direct his points not towards Naruto but actually towards us, he's asking questions that are directed at us, this is shown through symbolism, Imagine Naruto symbolizes us you know?

 

[Kellyable]

For the people who keep saying our world is getting worse and worse- We shouldn't say that because we weren't alive 'way back than' to see the problems that ravaged them during that time period. Let's use witch hunts in 17th century europe as an example. Protestantism and Catholicism were constantly fighting to be the reigning religion, families were torn apart due to these religions pressuring them, and people from the same family were killing each other due to differing beliefs. Not only that, government officials were accusing people of witchcraft to gain the victim's possessions and the various forms of torture used to extract 'confessions' of doing witchcraft were extremely vulgar. Though I dont mean to be disgusting, one form of 'killing a witch' was to hammer a nail down a witch's skull. (slowly too). I can name so much more that happened during this century it's unbelievable.
And my point in all this is that, though our present society has a lot of problems, societal problems back than were pretty gruesome. Yes there are still parts of the world like that, but back than, a stable country (by stable i mean, not being overrun by other countries, internal revolts, and population decrease due to random occurrences of lingering bubonic plague for example) did not exist. We should acknowledge that the world is still an unfair, and disgusting place, yet also realize that whining won't get us anywhere, and that improvement is possible. Obito probably represents most of us, who just sit and whine, not appreciating the good things in life (even if it's just a little), while naruto appreciates everything he has because he started out as a boy with nothing to live for.

 

[StraawHat]

For the people who keep saying our world is getting worse and worse- We shouldn't say that because we weren't alive 'way back than' to see the problems that ravaged them during that time period. Let's use witch hunts in 17th century europe as an example. Protestantism and Catholicism were constantly fighting to be the reigning religion, families were torn apart due to these religions pressuring them, and people from the same family were killing each other due to differing beliefs. Not only that, government officials were accusing people of witchcraft to gain the victim's possessions and the various forms of torture used to extract 'confessions' of doing witchcraft were extremely vulgar. Though I dont mean to be disgusting, one form of 'killing a witch' was to hammer a nail down a witch's skull. (slowly too). I can name so much more that happened during this century it's unbelievable.
And my point in all this is that, though our present society has a lot of problems, societal problems back than were pretty gruesome. Yes there are still parts of the world like that, but back than, a stable country (by stable i mean, not being overrun by other countries, internal revolts, and population decrease due to random occurrences of lingering bubonic plague for example) did not exist. We should acknowledge that the world is still an unfair, and disgusting place, yet also realize that whining won't get us anywhere, and that improvement is possible. Obito probably represents most of us, who just sit and whine, not appreciating the good things in life (even if it's just a little), while naruto appreciates everything he has because he started out as a boy with nothing to live for.

My friend I have read what you have to say and before you reply I suggest you read a good majority of what's been said, I find when people say they were someone who had nothing to live for disgusting because if you read what I went through from childhood and see that I am the person I am today it's because I didn't give up, I frown on people like that because if they gave up and I didn't after all I went through then you were just wasted potential from the start of your life till the end.

 

[Kellyable]

My friend I have read what you have to say and before you reply I suggest you read a good majority of what's been said, I find when people say they were someone who had nothing to live for disgusting because if you read what I went through from childhood and see that I am the person I am today it's because I didn't give up, I frown on people like that because if they gave up and I didn't after all I went through then you were just wasted potential from the start of your life till the end.

oh..im sorry. i think we have a misunderstanding.(i'm not trying to be sarcastic) What was the message you got from my post? I dont' want to make any judgement before clearly knowing what you meant.

 

[Zero Path]

I came across this thread earlier today, But didn't know if i should reply.. My beliefs and tolerances don't work with everyone, So i gave myself awhile to think about it, and Coming back to it now... I feel it'd be a waste not to, So here goes.

I for one think Obito's pain is justified. As a shinobi, He dedicated his Life to his team, and put all he was into his mantra: "Those Who Abandon Their friends Are Worse Than Trash!"... It wasn't just his catchphrase, it was his reality. On his "deathbed" he gave his best friend his eye, and after Surviving having half of his body crushed, and left with one eye, Odds which most would've thrown in the towel, He never stopped living for his friends. To have all that crushed before his very eye(s?) is beyond traumatic...
And for anyone who has experience enough pain, Obito's sentiments ring true even outside the manga, right into our daily lives.

Obito's and Madara's Plan, Creates a world of equality. One elaborate illusion to entrance every living person into a never ending dream. I feel that what it would bring to the narutoverse and our own Real World respectively aren't quite that different, but would turn out the same.

As for our World, would Tsuki no Me Really make a difference? I personally think not. Because when you boil it down, You're just lying to cover up the ugly truth that people are going to try to lie to you. The only difference is, Your Lie is being forced upon others and you take away their choice in the matter of what's happening to them. In the end, you turn out worse than what you tried to fix. As for the dreamers, Could you promise them all that their dreams would be nice? Could you promise yourself that? What if the very thing they dream of turns out to be a painful memory ad infinitum? Then hope becomes, Not even a delusion, but unfathomable...

That's why i believe in Hope. I believe Wholeheartedly, That if i keep up hope, and keep pushing forward, That I Can Make a better life for myself, And others around me. Inevitably, Life's gonna suck at some point. more for some than others, But it's up to us, Everyone of us, to help each other through it, Just Like the allied Shinobi Force are doing now. That's What Hope is to me!

 

[StraawHat]

oh..im sorry. i think we have a misunderstanding.(i'm not trying to be sarcastic) What was the message you got from my post? I dont' want to make any judgement before clearly knowing what you meant.

I'm simply saying perhaps you should go to the 5th page and read my life's story to better understand my pain, or perhaps tell me about your pain so that we can better understand each other, what we're trying to say is that religion people not truly trusting each other in this day and age is because unlike back in the days people had principles, morals and honor, things that these days are hard to find in many other people, from your post I believe you were trying to say that we cannot say things were better in the past because we did not live through the horrors that happened then, you're saying things can drive families apart and destroy things as precious as family bonds because they try to fit in with the rest to not be judged and ridiculed, however what you're saying is that people who are represented by Obito are sitting there doing nothing but in actuality he is in fact doing what he feels is right which is why I believe that if i follow my feelings then I will be able to make a change too.

 

[StraawHat]

I came across this thread earlier today, But didn't know if i should reply.. My beliefs and tolerances don't work with everyone, So i gave myself awhile to think about it, and Coming back to it now... I feel it'd be a waste not to, So here goes.

I for one think Obito's pain is justified. As a shinobi, He dedicated his Life to his team, and put all he was into his mantra: "Those Who Abandon Their friends Are Worse Than Trash!"... It wasn't just his catchphrase, it was his reality. On his "deathbed" he gave his best friend his eye, and after Surviving having half of his body crushed, and left with one eye, Odds which most would've thrown in the towel, He never stopped living for his friends. To have all that crushed before his very eye(s?) is beyond traumatic...
And for anyone who has experience enough pain, Obito's sentiments ring true even outside the manga, right into our daily lives.

Obito's and Madara's Plan, Creates a world of equality. One elaborate illusion to entrance every living person into a never ending dream. I feel that what it would bring to the narutoverse and our own Real World respectively aren't quite that different, but would turn out the same.

As for our World, would Tsuki no Me Really make a difference? I personally think not. Because when you boil it down, You're just lying to cover up the ugly truth that people are going to try to lie to you. The only difference is, Your Lie is being forced upon others and you take away their choice in the matter of what's happening to them. In the end, you turn out worse than what you tried to fix. As for the dreamers, Could you promise them all that their dreams would be nice? Could you promise yourself that? What if the very thing they dream of turns out to be a painful memory ad infinitum? Then hope becomes, Not even a delusion, but unfathomable...

That's why i believe in Hope. I believe Wholeheartedly, That if i keep up hope, and keep pushing forward, That I Can Make a better life for myself, And others around me. Inevitably, Life's gonna suck at some point. more for some than others, But it's up to us, Everyone of us, to help each other through it, Just Like the allied Shinobi Force are doing now. That's What Hope is to me!

Yes I had noticed you in particular from everyone else, you appeared several times yet said nothing, I was very interested in what you had to say as I knew it would be very thought upon, what you said is a lot to remember so I will do my best to give you my perspective, firstly you are right, trapping people in an illusion against their wills in fact simply defeats the purpose of peace because without war there is no such thing as peace, using an illusion to cover up the truth only makes the truth that much harder to accept because you'd more willingly accept a lie to better your own self than the truth to better everyone else. I believe I have lived Obito's life because I have made similar sacrifices, i'm not saying I've given up an eye but I my friends have given up their lives for me to live so not only am I living my life for me, I'm living my life for them as well which is why I cannot afford to give up or lose. Although I believe hope is a delusion I truly believe I am wrong because I believe too, I have dreams and goals that I am willing to give anything to make a better place, not just to make the world a better place for me, but for my friends, family heck even all of you and the people I don't know. Losing Rin was what destroyed Obito and set him down the dark path, however Losing my only and first love is what made me more determined than ever to do so. For me life is something that I wake up every morning to and open my eyes and thank that I am alive another day to try ad make a difference for everyone else because I care more about others than I do myself but I know that one day I will have to make a sacrifice for the better good and I will do so to ensure the safety of others. Again Pai is what links all of us together even to characters.

 

[Amaterasuice]

Really? I'm exactly how you used to be lol.

Anyway,

Obito is right and wrong:

He's right that the world is slowly becoming worse and worse and needs to be fixed.

He's wrong about the way he's doing it.

Personally, if I was him I'd just let the world destroy itself. We're halfway there anyway lol.

 

[StraawHat]

Really? I'm exactly how you used to be lol.

Anyway,

Obito is right and wrong:

He's right that the world is slowly becoming worse and worse and needs to be fixed.

He's wrong about the way he's doing it.

Personally, if I was him I'd just let the world destroy itself. We're halfway there anyway lol.

Well it's not un-common, the way I am right now ir probably how most people are or have been at some point in their lives, yes the way he's going about it may be wrong but he is still doing what he perceives as right, in our world if we all simply give up then what would be the point in fighting anything, there'd be no point in trying to fight cancer or any other diseases may as well let everyone die? That is why I believe we must fight because if we don't who will? Saving an innocent life is true redemption for any of the wrong or bad you have done in your life

 

[StraawHat]

Ok I am off to sleep now, I haven't slept in 2 days so if anyone posts here know that I will reply to it As soon as I can tomorrow

 

[βeeCee]

That sounds like a poor mans words to me. What adversities would the children on the rich suffer through?

Just because you have money, doesn't mean you don't have problems. They're problems are just manifested differently. Rich people get divorced, rich children can suffer the loss of a loved one, suffer from abuse and parental neglect. Money is not a catch all problem solver.

But what i'm saying is I believe Kishimoto is making Obito direct his points not towards Naruto but actually towards us, he's asking questions that are directed at us, this is shown through symbolism, Imagine Naruto symbolizes us you know?

I don't know for sure that there is a higher intent on Kishi's part as a call for action against today's world, but I do agree with you that he, like many artists and writers, uses his manga as a medium to get his point of view across.