a quick question: "what debating means to you"

[king gaara]

i think this is within the rules of the vs forum, if the mods think its in the wrong place feel free to move it, but i feel anywhere else makes it the wrong place as this is vs section related. i dont think the naruto discussion section fits, or the general discussion is right either because this is for ppl who post in just this specific forum section. thanks.

please read the thread to get an idea of what i mean, or at least a majority of it, dont go just by the title. my question is, what do u guys think "debating" is? of course, i dont mean i'm a giant retard who doesnt know what debating is, i mean what are ur personal opinions on what the point to it is. what the point of this vs section is. in fact my original title was "what is debating" but that makes me sound retarded. . lol.

ill give back story so that you understand my question a bit. i see so many people hate on each other all the time in here, most of the arguments i watch never finish its just some guy who leaves after both sides call each other dumbs, so if youre not having fun why do you do it. in fact i wonder how the arguments even get to that point i think we should always be friendly.

i see ppl disagree on a lot of scan posts too, if u post a scan to support you, that means it happens in the manga, so that makes it true right? well the only answer to WHY someone could argue about such a thing, means people lie about the scans.

why would people lie about scans? let me be the 1st to answer my own question, and tell you what i think debating is, then maybe ull understand.

i think debating is, working together with the other person to discover the truth. if u take a side and counter their argument, they counter urs, this continues until u finally reach the point where u have the facts and only the facts.

so with what i said, why would someone lie about what happens in a scan? that means they have other reasons than finding the truth, finding out who REALLY wins, that must mean they have some other agenda in mind.

so what does debating mean to u? am i naive in my beliefs, is there another "point" to debating, or someone could answer why youd ever need to lie about something like that? i understand being fans of particular characters takes a role somewhere, and stuff that happens 'off panel' that people must assume on, and sometimes people just forget. people have diff views on using the databook etcetera, and of course it has a competitive side, theres a lot of stuff to consider, thats just a fact. but i think for the most part it should be all dandy.

this is also a reason i approve of defending chars u think lose, i think its far superior, i think its the best way to win a debate by defending someone you dont think wins and argue with someone else, to defeat all the bad arguments. that's what i think debating is. but who i am i i only have 20 posts here and 19 are from 2 yrs ago. lol.

well this isnt a lecture or wasnt supposed to be, i DID make this thread to find out on all ur views on what debating means so im interested. what does it mean? thanks for ur input NB! =D

this is also my 1st thread here so i do hope i did a good job, perhaps i might make more threads like this if things go well, and tackle a more philosophical side to some vs section topics . so if u have some feedback let me know.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Tldr lol.
Honestly. The stubbornness on this site is too great for ppl to come to proper conclusions.

 

[king gaara]

Tldr lol.
Honestly. The stubbornness on this site is too great for ppl to come to proper conclusions.

lol wel, i posted it in the vs colosseum first but i guess a mod didnt think it was fitting for it so he moved it, usually the users there are more in depth with their posts and deal with long posts more. but i guess it was pretty long.

exactly, the guys here are really stubborn, i want to delve into that more, and thats a big reason i made this thread to finding out why. d:

 

[ekichi onizuka]

it means i have to solo by all means even if you're right

 

[Mari Makinami]

[video=youtube;5GgflscOmW8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GgflscOmW8[/video]

 

[Tobasco]

To me, debating is trying to prove something, convincing people that what you say is correct. Sadly, a lot of people aren't honest when they do it, and it ends up with childish insults, ignoring the arguments they can't counter, etc. Debating loses its point when people can't admit a loss.

 

[The Sach]

i think this is within the rules of the vs forum, if the mods think its in the wrong place feel free to move it, but i feel anywhere else makes it the wrong place as this is vs section related. i dont think the naruto discussion section fits, or the general discussion is right either because this is for ppl who post in just this specific forum section. thanks.

It is tough to decide where this thread belongs to, but I think GD section/chatterbox section is correct one for this, and not versus section. Versus section is made only for versus threads, and not on something which is about the section whole and quality of debates, but that's again just I said, is a completed one to decide.

please read the thread to get an idea of what i mean, or at least a majority of it, dont go just by the title. my question is, what do u guys think "debating" is? of course, i dont mean i'm a giant retard who doesnt know what debating is, i mean what are ur personal opinions on what the point to it is. what the point of this vs section is. in fact my original title was "what is debating" but that makes me sound retarded. . lol.

For me debate is something, where you try to prove that your opinion is correct, or in other words it is supported by 'facts' and try to convince your opponent.
For a complex manga like Naruto, where power levels are affected by multiple factors, versus section is there to improve your debating skills, and work on different perspectives of looking at the same character. Purpose of versus threads is applying your creativity, knowledge and analytical skills, to prove that your character can take down other one, in specified situation, with specified intent and with given set of restrictions, which are generally pre-decided.

ill give back story so that you understand my question a bit. i see so many people hate on each other all the time in here, most of the arguments i watch never finish its just some guy who leaves after both sides call each other dumbs, so if youre not having fun why do you do it. in fact i wonder how the arguments even get to that point i think we should always be friendly.

You see all of this stuff because few people here don't know where 'to stop', skills of debater doesn't mean going against facts, but rather means presenting the facts so as to support the argument.
Sometimes you lose the debate, so it is better to move on and admit that you lose, but people go on enforcing their point even if it is already proven wrong 'multiple times'.

i see ppl disagree on a lot of scan posts too, if u post a scan to support you, that means it happens in the manga, so that makes it true right? well the only answer to WHY someone could argue about such a thing, means people lie about the scans.

Just like I said in earlier part, Naruto is a complex manga and hence many things such as 'face-value' of the character who said given statement comes into picture, especially in case of 'feats', as in some cases it is 'relative feat', i.e. Deidara said that Sasuke is fast, doesn't mean he is faster than Minato. So even if someone presented the scan doesn't mean they are automatically correct, as one can interpret scans in different ways, but one has to take most logical interpretation into consideration.

why would people lie about scans? let me be the 1st to answer my own question, and tell you what i think debating is, then maybe ull understand.

i think debating is, working together with the other person to discover the truth. if u take a side and counter their argument, they counter urs, this continues until u finally reach the point where u have the facts and only the facts.

Actually it isn't like that, debating is basically working on your opinion, so as to prove it correct, and prove that it is within the realm of truth/facts.

so with what i said, why would someone lie about what happens in a scan? that means they have other reasons than finding the truth, finding out who REALLY wins, that must mean they have some other agenda in mind.

I don't consider scan as the ultimate mean of proving one correct, but correct/logical interpretation of scan as ultimate mean of proving one correct.

 

[Hypemaster]

it means calling each other retards.

 

[king gaara]

To me, debating is trying to prove something, convincing people that what you say is correct. Sadly, a lot of people aren't honest when they do it, and it ends up with childish insults, ignoring the arguments they can't counter, etc. Debating loses its point when people can't admit a loss.

exactly. it's my message to be more friendly with people when in debate, but idk what good it will do. .lol.

It is tough to decide where this thread belongs to, but I think GD section/chatterbox section is correct one for this, and not versus section. Versus section is made only for versus threads, and not on something which is about the section whole and quality of debates, but that's again just I said, is a completed one to decide.

i know a lot of people post in the vs section but they will never see this since they only post there, or i know there are tonnes of people here that will see this, but they dont post in the vs section so its not directed for them. i checked the rules of the vs thread at the top and it fit all the criteria, but i guess mods knows best.

Just like I said in earlier part, Naruto is a complex manga and hence many things such as 'face-value' of the character who said given statement comes into picture, especially in case of 'feats', as in some cases it is 'relative feat', i.e. Deidara said that Sasuke is fast, doesn't mean he is faster than Minato. So even if someone presented the scan doesn't mean they are automatically correct, as one can interpret scans in different ways, but one has to take most logical interpretation into consideration.

I don't consider scan as the ultimate mean of proving one correct, but correct/logical interpretation of scan as ultimate mean of proving one correct.

yep, that is what i said. im not sure why i chose 'scan' as my point of reference but it leads to my point overall. there are plenty of factors here like the author intentions when writing a certain page, and character statements and such that i listed in the beginning. theres even translation accuracy but that might be going ito the stubbornness territory for some ppl lol.

For me debate is something, where you try to prove that your opinion is correct, or in other words it is supported by 'facts' and try to convince your opponent.

For a complex manga like Naruto, where power levels are affected by multiple factors, versus section is there to improve your debating skills, and work on different perspectives of looking at the same character. Purpose of versus threads is applying your creativity, knowledge and analytical skills, to prove that your character can take down other one, in specified situation, with specified intent and with given set of restrictions, which are generally pre-decided.

You see all of this stuff because few people here don't know where 'to stop', skills of debater doesn't mean going against facts, but rather means presenting the facts so as to support the argument.
Sometimes you lose the debate, so it is better to move on and admit that you lose, but people go on enforcing their point even if it is already proven wrong 'multiple times'.

Actually it isn't like that, debating is basically working on your opinion, so as to prove it correct, and prove that it is within the realm of truth/facts.

exactly. i think this in the end simmers down to my main point. youre right 100 percent, and what i said doesnt take away from anything that u said. they can coexist. in fact if they go by your way of debate it even strenghtens mine. if you want to prove your debating skill and prove that a character can beat another thats great, u have to try your hardest and gather the best evidence to prove that. no matter what when another person battles you, if their arguments are strong enough the truth is reached. thats why if you want to prove yourself,you have to tackle the best debater possible, and see how he can counter your points =D if theres a bad debater facing you, he might not even be able to counter really simple stuff, there are probably decent arguments for tenten vs pain.

as i said im 100% for defending chars that you think will lose, and playing devil's advocate. ive seen tournaments here that actually assign u a char, so even in a losing case u have to defend them as best u can. however there comes a point, u arent supposed to mislead. if you want a char to win so much, knowing the other character wins anyways, and the opponent defeats your scan with their own logic, u have to acknowledge that the point was wrong and move on the next or else it gets messy. yea thats where the problem lies.

going back to what i said about tenten vs pain. if you were forced to defend her, you could say that pain has no counter to the panels of her throwing ninja tools or whatever ur fancy. of course any decent debater can shut them down easy, but when they do. a debater on this site, who defends tenten till death would deny it. they would say nuh uh, look at the pics again pain cant stop that. but a great debater, would admit when his points are defeated, and after tackling all the opponents points thats how you know. your character can lose the match, but u can still win the debate, both forms can coexist. i guess i havent posted enough to reinforce this but i can probably provide examples

ultimately i think its a way to promote being more friendly during discussions even, what would ur solution be to all these stubborn people arguing just because they like a char more and when clearly defeated they deny? ultimately if 2 equal debaters fight with all they got and use all their logic, and actually ADMIT their scans are defeated, theyll find the real winner of the vs match. but that's just true, maybe not the "point" of debating like u said, its just gonna happen. people do have their own agendas with debating, and you can definitely prove how great a debater u are using that tactic. i think it would help people be friendly if you called debating a teamwork based argument if that makes sense.

well thanks for taking all that time to reply ... ive seen a couple not as well thought out posts in this thread. lol. it was a really thought provoking post and gave me some insight on what other peoples perspective were on the subject so thanks,, this is the kind of thing i made the thread for to get some good discussion rolling. +1 d:

i dont really expect a response since that was kinda long but i guess i ramble. and it was more in general and not just to u, but thanks for the insight again .

and those saying tl;dr ... read a book once in awhile, u guys read 600 chapters of naruto havent ya you can handle a few paragraphs xP

 

[Wabbit]

idk.Most things I post are just opinions.I dnt always debate into topics proving something.If I know something I post about it.If someone disagrees then I cant help it..debating is to find who is right,discussion is for what is right..

ill give back story so that you understand my question a bit. i see so many people hate on each other all the time in here, most of the arguments i watch never finish its just some guy who leaves after both sides call each other dumbs, so if youre not having fun why do you do it. in fact i wonder how the arguments even get to that point i think we should always be friendly.

Many ppl come here to just to hate,bash,troll and thats entertaining. Many are infamous being a fan of particular charecter.Nb would have been boring without them.mostly all charecter has its own harcore fans.Some are obvious trolls. Whenever some troll makes a thread members go there insult/support each other and that entertains them.They like becoming part of it.Why would they go there if they didnt like it.They would have just neg repped anyone who tries to troll.
BUT whenever there is logical post with magafact I havent seen any legit member who denied it.I have seen decent discussions.If you spend bit time in ND you would know who to argue with..

 

[Beauty Busty Beast]

MadaraRules: wrong manga scans for his assumptions
FemmeFatale: Hype
LadyTsunadeSama: RETARD WANKING!

 

[~Sky~]

Some scans can be ambiguous, we could interpret them in different ways.