A question concerning Limbo

[Mari Makinami]

Hey guys, I'd appreciate some help of those who know teh manga really well. I don't need precise answer (since I don't recall it ever being given in the manga or the databook), but perhaps you can kinda provide some logical arguments on the matter.

The question is: do the copies made with Limbo have shared vision? As in, do they work like shadow clones (i.e. no shared vision but memories return to the original one once the Limbo copy returns) or more like Pain's bodies when all the eyes are always linked?

Those who give some sort of detailed short theory or even a mangafact-based answer with proof will get huge thanks and +rep from me!

/discuss.

 

[The Necromancer]

They are not "paths" created with black rods who share the rinnegan. So no.

 

[Gerkak]

They are closer to shadow clones than to pains paths, though they aren't exactly like shadow clones either I don't think madara recovers any memories.

To my knowledge the limbo clones don't have shared vision, perhaps shared vision is an ability of the six paths technique and doesn't apply to limbo because limbo isn't part of that family of techniques.

The data book claims limbo are copies of the original

A person who posses the Rinnegan can intervene in an adjacent world, an extremely distance world. In that space a shadow is produced, which everyone who is connected with the current world can't feel. Not only will the technique user gain a duplicate of himself with equal ability, but it will also be invisible. Squaring of against a user, counter attack is impossible, going up against this ability will result in one losing against such a powerful enemy.

→ When fighting the enemy in close combat the shadow will stay away. But after a time the shadow will return.

 

[Mari Makinami]

They are not "paths" created with black rods who share the rinnegan. So no.

True, but don't you think there might be some sort of connection between the copies and the original, given that the wounds received by one are being instantly transferred to another?

 

[VongolaX]

They don't.

The shared vision is a thing Nagato created.

 

[Mari Makinami]

They don't.

The shared vision is a thing Nagato created.

Didn't Obito's paths have it too, though? Thing is that I thought it's because of the constant chakra flow between the copy and the original, and Limbo sort of have such connection - that's why I asked to begin with.

 

[NarutoX28]

Hey guys, I'd appreciate some help of those who know teh manga really well. I don't need precise answer (since I don't recall it ever being given in the manga or the databook), but perhaps you can kinda provide some logical arguments on the matter.

The question is: do the copies made with Limbo have shared vision? As in, do they work like shadow clones (i.e. no shared vision but memories return to the original one once the Limbo copy returns) or more like Pain's bodies when all the eyes are always linked?

Those who give some sort of detailed short theory or even a mangafact-based answer with proof will get huge thanks and +rep from me!

/discuss.

I would assume so.

Madara's Limbo clone was linked to Madara's own Vision which is why he managed to detect Sasuke's blindside attempt:

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And I would assume they're linked due to having similar eyes based on the fact that they're relatively similar to Kage Bushin as they retain equal capabilities as the original.

 

[Mari Makinami]

I would assume so.

Madara's Limbo clone was linked to Madara's own Vision which is why he managed to detect Sasuke's blindside attempt:

You must be registered for see links

And I would assume they're linked due to having similar eyes based on the fact that they're relatively similar to Kage Bushin as they retain equal capabilities as the original.

That's a good argument. Thank you very much!

 

[NarutoX28]

That's a good argument. Thank you very much!

Thanks. The only thing that the Outer Path ability allowed Nagato and Obito to do is to allow the Paths to receive their chakra which produced the Sharingan and Rinnegan within their eyes. Madara's Limbo doesn't require that obviously and the link between Madara's Limbo and the original was shown in the scan I presented, so Outer Path has nothing to do with it.

 

[Gerkak]

I would assume so.

Madara's Limbo clone was linked to Madara's own Vision which is why he managed to detect Sasuke's blindside attempt:

You must be registered for see links

And I would assume they're linked due to having similar eyes based on the fact that they're relatively similar to Kage Bushin as they retain equal capabilities as the original.

Madara is a sensor type though, he was battling the likes of naruto and sasuke while completly blind. It isn't impossible to say that he detected sasuke because he could sense him.

Madara saying he gave sasuke ample time shows that he was aware of sasuke's presence even before the attack occurred.

 

[NarutoX28]

Madara is a sensor type though, he was battling the likes of naruto and sasuke while completly blind. It isn't impossible to say that he detected sasuke because he could sense him.

I agree with this, but we've seen experienced sensors being unable to detect one's presence which includes SM Kabuto, SM Jiraiya, SM Naruto, and even Nagato. I just think that Madara's Limbo clone detecting Sasuke is more accurate because of the implication that perceiving something through vision is superior than perceiving something through sensing and Madara was distracted by Tobirama and his attempted surprise attack. The fact that Madara's Limbo clone was present implies that he witnessed Sasuke and shifted his eyes towards Sasuke as a response (IMO).

Madara saying he gave sasuke ample time shows that he was aware of sasuke's presence even before the attack occurred.

That was more of a reference to Madara urging Sasuke to join his side.

 

[~Ethereal~]

Agreed with Gerkak.

 

[HENI]

No they don't share visions.

 

[Gerkak]

I agree with this, but we've seen experienced sensors being unable to detect one's presence which includes SM Kabuto, SM Jiraiya, SM Naruto, and even Nagato. I just think that Madara's Limbo clone detecting Sasuke is more accurate because of the implication that perceiving something through vision is superior than perceiving something through sensing and Madara was distracted by Tobirama and his attempted surprise attack. The fact that Madara's Limbo clone was present implies that he witnessed Sasuke and shifted his eyes towards Sasuke as a response (IMO).

Yes and we've seen shared vision fail to detect presence as well. Sensing isn't inferior to vision, Naruto accurately fighting madara's limbo clones is proof enugh of that. Those who are skilled in sensing can fight completely blind folded(naruto, kabuto and madara). SM sensing grants danger sensing surprising a perfect SM user is difficult and also madara said he was aware of sasuke so he could have sensed him meaning sasuke never got to chance to surprise him.

We also don't know if madara used limbo it could have been basho tenin.

That was more of a reference to Madara urging Sasuke to join his side.

I don't think so, he already asked sasuke before and when sasuke refused he said that it wasn't like sasuke had much time left anyway. Meaning that by that point he no longer cared so there is no reason for him to bring that again. Madara was able to dodge FTG slash using SM sensing, reacting to EMS sasuke should not be outside his capabilities.

 

[Nick01]

Would be cool if the vision was shared.

 

[The Demon Hawk]

Madara's Limbo clones are exactly like shadow clones, a copy of the user just as powerful as the original. The exceptions are that his Limbo clones can be produced very less in quantity, but they are a lot more OP'd compared to shadow clones considering the fact that they are unseeable and unfightable for 99% of NV and unkillable for 100% of NV. The working is essentially the same as shadow clones though.

Since they are more like shadow clones, it's definite that they'll work just like them. Which means they don't have shared vision like the Six Paths of Pain, that is a completely different ability. That could be due to not having the chakra receivers like them or the division of abilities, but that's just a guess. What I'm affirmative about is that they don't have shared vision. Plus, Limbo clones haven't shown a single feat showing off their shared vision either.

Whether they return the memory to the original is debatable as it was never shown or hinted, but I think they do because if Limbo clones completely return to the original including physical damage, it's much more likely that they return the memories too.

I would assume so.

Madara's Limbo clone was linked to Madara's own Vision which is why he managed to detect Sasuke's blindside attempt:

You must be registered for see links

And I would assume they're linked due to having similar eyes based on the fact that they're relatively similar to Kage Bushin as they retain equal capabilities as the original.

Madara had Hashirama's Sage Mode at that time, so you can't attribute his sensing of Sasuke's blind spot attack to his Limbo, becaue SM provides sensing feats.

 

[NarutoX28]

Madara had Hashirama's Sage Mode at that time, so you can't attribute his sensing of Sasuke's blind spot attack to his Limbo, becaue SM provides sensing feats.

By that logic, we can also associate it with Madara's Limbo Clone because he was standing right there and they're linked due to having the same chakra that composes their Rinnegan. It's been established that vision is superior to sensing and sensing has never been as accurate as vision and furthermore, Madara was distracted by Tobirama which would diminish his ability to sense Sasuke.

Examples being SM Naruto, SM Jiraiya, SM Kabuto (which Itachi even composed a strategy against Kabuto by using a diversion), Nagato, C, and potentially Konan.

Madara shifted his head as response to what Limbo perceived, similar to what Nagato did here:

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And this is what Madara did when he perceived Sasuke's blindside attempt:

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[The Demon Hawk]

By that logic, we can also associate it with Madara's Limbo Clone because he was standing right there and they're linked due to having the same chakra that composes their Rinnegan. It's been established that vision is superior to sensing and sensing has never been as accurate as vision and furthermore, Madara was distracted by Tobirama which would diminish his ability to sense Sasuke.

Examples being SM Naruto, SM Jiraiya, SM Kabuto (which Itachi even composed a strategy against Kabuto by using a diversion), Nagato, C, and potentially Konan.

Madara shifted his head as response to what Limbo perceived, similar to what Nagato did here:

You must be registered for see links

And this is what Madara did when he perceived Sasuke's blindside attempt:

You must be registered for see links

Madara's Limbo clone has never shown sensing or shared vision feats. Yes, the Limbo clone itself could see Sasuke, obviously. But Madara couldn't at the same time.

Normal vision is not superior to sensing though. Only Sharingan vision. BTW, SM sensing is adequately powerful to track every single move.

SM sensing is engaged all the time, so I don't see how that matters.

There are no established feats of Limbo having shared vision. A clone cannot have shared vision because:
1. A clone is a totally distinct entity from the user, created by dividing chakra reserves. They are not linked in any sort of way.
2. Clones don't work like the Six Paths of Pain, which are essentially puppets and controlled by the user by pumping in chakra. Their manipulation factor is the reason why they are designed to have shared vision unlike clones.
3. Also, what makes the shared vision possible is the chakra receivers, since that links the original's chakra to the puppets. The fact that the original's chakra is not linked to the clone due to not having chakra receivers makes this feature essentially impossible.

 

[NarutoX28]

Madara's Limbo clone has never shown sensing or shared vision feats. Yes, the Limbo clone itself could see Sasuke, obviously. But Madara couldn't at the same time.

I'll be honest, this is a difficult thing to explain because this is really open to interpretation.

Normal vision is not superior to sensing though. Only Sharingan vision. BTW, SM sensing is adequately powerful to track every single move.

I never stated that. Assuming that sensing capabilities don't directly give Precognitive capabilities to the user, sensing an attack is inferior to reacting to an attack relying on vision. This was emphasized by Jiraiya:

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SM sensing is engaged all the time, so I don't see how that matters.

It's not for the examples I already presented. Users can bypass one's sensing capabilities. This isn't something entirely new.

There are no established feats of Limbo having shared vision. A clone cannot have shared vision because:
1. A clone is a totally distinct entity from the user, created by dividing chakra reserves. They are not linked in any sort of way.

That's similar to Pain's Six Paths technique where Nagato's chakra is dispersed among six different individuals.

The Limbo clone is linked to Madara due having the same chakra which means the chakra within Limbo's Rinnegan is the same as the original's which creates that connection between Madara and his Limbo clone.

2. Clones don't work like the Six Paths of Pain, which are essentially puppets and controlled by the user by pumping in chakra. Their manipulation factor is the reason why they are designed to have shared vision unlike clones.

The main difference is that the Limbo clone doesn't require the stakes in order to control it as it already has the user's chakra.

The Outer Path is merely a method, so that the Paths can actively receive the Outer Path's chakra which activates the Rinnegan within the Path's eyes because Dojutsu is a reflection of that chakra. It's because they have the same chakra within their Rinnegan that they're linked.

3. Also, what makes the shared vision possible is the chakra receivers, since that links the original's chakra to the puppets.

All the receivers do is allow the Paths to actively receive the Outer Path's chakra and that chakra activates the Rinnegan as I already explained earlier, dojutsu is the reflection of their chakra. It's because they have a similar Rinnegan that there eyes are linked in the first place. That's even hinted here:

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The fact that the original's chakra is not linked to the clone due to not having chakra receivers makes this feature essentially impossible.

They are because the Limbo clone is composed of the user's chakra and retains the same Rinnegan as the original.