No point in arguing seeing as you already forgot the biggest factor in COAT overall. Yin, and Yang together will create some sort of life force, or living object, or in Naruto's case fixing what had already been destroyed from components of themselves.
BijuuSusano'o is not a Bijuu, it is not life, and it is only a materialized object. The factors presented already showcased why it is not COAT, but a reverse ability which mimics how it creates from something, instead of nothingness. Volk, I, and Di Raizel explained to you countless times already what was being explained. Rather use of ignorance is bliss can be subjective in this equation.
Since Nagato was the person with the Rinnegan at that time, implanted chakra into the Gedo similar in the form of the way Sasuke did it to his Susano'o, instead they were using live Jinchuriki. What Sasuke did was an inverse process of COAT, correct, but that is not the COAT ability he is mentioning. He believes Sasuke can create something, from nothing, or in this case "Put the Bijuu into one". Hell no, that is the real COAT's ability. Which someone posted manga facts of how it works, and how it is explained in Databook Four.
Nagato sealing back bijuus is different from what sasuke did because even up until kaguya, these bijuus kept existing as separate forms clustered together, with their own consciousness and even some resistance to the unwelcome user such as when they escaped from obito and when bijuuFRSs messed up kaguya.
This in very core if different from original juubi that had hinted humanoid form, possibly interchanging with that of rabbit or humanoid rabbit, doesnt matter, what matter that there was no mess of forest animals before hagoromo.
We have to compare them in this chase, because Sasuke used the PS in the form of a Gedo Statue. Which was never deemed impossible. Sasuke was just the first person to do so.
And we are comparing them.
Gedo is their old body to which their life force/energy/chakra clings so badly that mighty bijuus cant overpower small chakra chain of some empty shell.
The other is just chakra construct. I dont think its the same.
"Yin Release", which creates form out of nothingness and "Yang Release", which breathes life into form.
Yup, yin is basically genjutsu figure, that hagoromo filled with what? Life force, yes but more specifically? Right 1/9 of juubi's chakra.
Therefore while yin allows us to create anything of any shape and size, life force is limited asset if you look at it objectively.
The ability to fuse this chakra or life force into dead holograms is what COAT is. Inverse process would be fusing separate chakras to prior original juubi's chakra.
Hagoromo split the Juubi with the COAT, Sasuke took the chakra of the Nine tailed beasts and put it into one thing. Inverse/Reverse, one person is creating something from nothing, and the other person is taking chakra to place it into a storage.
Two different concepts here, but mimic each other in how they operate.
Wrong. Hagoromo created shapes and forms of the bijuus then he powered them by juubi's chakra. Therefore what hagoromo did is just split juubi into new smaller shapes. This is not nothing from nothing process by no means.
What sasuke did was reverse, he took portion of chakra from those new shapes and fused their life force back into new shape.
Whether i was original juubi's chakra i cannot say, but it no longer had old bijuu forms.
Nagato sealing back bijuus is different from what sasuke did because even up until kaguya, these bijuus kept existing as separate forms clustered together, with their own consciousness and even some resistance to the unwelcome user such as when they escaped from obito and when bijuuFRSs messed up kaguya.
Gedo is their old body to which their life force/energy/chakra clings so badly that mighty bijuus cant overpower small chakra chain of some empty shell.
The other is just chakra construct. I dont think its the same.
The Gedo is the shell of the Juubi logically from what was stated. The Bijuu are of living beings which intellectual thought created from COAT itself, comparing that to a Susano'o created from chakra, is a double negative.
Yup, yin is basically genjutsu figure, that hagoromo filled with what? Life force, yes but more specifically? Right 1/9 of juubi's chakra.
Therefore while yin allows us to create anything of any shape and size, life force is limited asset if you look at it objectively.
The ability to fuse this chakra or life force into dead holograms is what COAT is. Inverse process would be fusing separate chakras to prior original juubi's chakra.
The Juubi is a manifestation of Natural energy itself. Naruto himself tried to understand the level of power it had with Sage Mode, and it was a universal difference. The databook claims that the Bijuu are created from the chakra of the Juubi into nine different parts which are created through the Yin/Yang release of COAT, in which you imagine the said-so object, and the Yang which births the creation to the real world. Nothing in that formation was implied in creation of the Bijuu Susano'o, despite the fact, it created a non intelligent object from chakra alone.
That is not the process of Yin/Yang together, but merely the reverse of how it happens.
Wrong. Hagoromo created shapes and forms of the bijuus then he powered them by juubi's chakra. Therefore what hagoromo did is just split juubi into new smaller shapes. This is not nothing from nothing process by no means.
What sasuke did was reverse, he took portion of chakra from those new shapes and fused their life force back into new shape.
Whether i was original juubi's chakra i cannot say, but it no longer had old bijuu forms.
Not exactly. Indeed Hagoromo created lifeforms of intellectual thought, they were created from the Juubi's chakra.
That's exactly why Sasuke does not have COAT/nor used the ability. You explained it yourself. Sasuke took the chakra of something that was already created, and placed it into a storage which could hold that said chakra. It is the exact opposite of how YIN/YANG operate, because Hagoromo took something that was alive (Or in this case the Bijuu) and then Hagoromo created a life form. Instead, Sasuke created a more powerful Susano'o.
That is not COAT, but like everyone explained already, a reverse process of what COAT is.
Susano'o has been holding onto forms of chakra/power since it's the War Arc. Shall I remind everyone about Juugo's curse seal? Or the Susano'o/Kurama mix?
No point in arguing seeing as you already forgot the biggest factor in COAT overall. Yin, and Yang together will create some sort of life force, or living object, or in Naruto's case fixing what had already been destroyed from components of themselves.
BijuuSusano'o is not a Bijuu, it is not life, and it is only a materialized object. The factors presented already showcased why it is not COAT, but a reverse ability which mimics how it creates from something, instead of nothingness. Volk, I, and Di Raizel explained to you countless times already what was being explained. Rather use of ignorance is bliss can be subjective in this equation.
Sasuke did the reverse thing which means he also possess Yin-Yang ability into some extent.
I really don't get how hard this could get to understand, but nevermind it is pointless to argue considering neither of us backing out from our claims.
Ciao.
It was a good conversation while it lasted. I already proved you wrong throughout the conversation, repeating what you have said since the second or third page does not change the outcome of that you were wrong. Interpreted the meaning of what had happened, and believed it was an ability that never existed in his criteria.
Rinnegan yes, but the method isnt same. Nagato used outer path via gedo, Sasuke used what?
The Gedo is the shell of the Juubi logically from what was stated. The Bijuu are of living beings which intellectual thought created from COAT itself, comparing that to a Susano'o created from chakra, is a double negative.
Countering this leads to nothing so ill save some space and try different approach
The Juubi is a manifestation of Natural energy itself. Naruto himself tried to understand the level of power it had with Sage Mode, and it was a universal difference.
The databook claims that the Bijuu are created from the chakra of the Juubi into nine different parts which are created through the Yin/Yang release of COAT, in which you imagine the said-so object, and the Yang which births the creation to the real world. Nothing in that formation was implied in creation of the Bijuu Susano'o, despite the fact, it created a non intelligent object from chakra alone.
True, we dont have any proven/distinct sign of any sapience from that humanoid. It's still to far to dismiss it as its may have been communicating with sasuke and acting accordingly or sasuke didnt care for it's high intelligence in process of making.
That is not the process of Yin/Yang together, but merely the reverse of how it happens.
The COAT doesnt not create Yin, its does not create Yang energies, COAT merely fuses them into something new.
Not exactly. Indeed Hagoromo created lifeforms of intellectual thought, they were created from the Juubi's chakra.
That's exactly why Sasuke does not have COAT/nor used the ability. You explained it yourself. Sasuke took the chakra of something that was already created, and placed it into a storage which could hold that said chakra. It is the exact opposite of how YIN/YANG operate, because Hagoromo took something that was alive (Or in this case the Bijuu) and then Hagoromo created a life form. Instead, Sasuke created a more powerful Susano'o.
A fully reversed process of bijuus would be original humanoid juubi. We didnt get that because:
A) Sasuke hasnt used all the chakra of bijuus thus any talk of former juubi magnitude and power is futile.
B) The words of kurama itself can be taken in two forms:
a) It's a reverse in way that its fusing back into old juubi.
b) It's a reverse in way that its fusing back into something new.
If kurama did mean by inverse only fusing of divided chakra into new then we get COAT.
Because we get kurama mentioning splitting bijuus which was done with COAT and mentioning that sasuke is doing same thing but in reverse (which can be understood as fusing back divided)
Susano'o has been holding onto forms of chakra/power since it's the War Arc. Shall I remind everyone about Juugo's curse seal? Or the Susano'o/Kurama mix?
So? The problem not that we may find something similar to this, but that kurama indirectly mentions COAT, hagoromo using it to make them and sasuke doing something like that but not fully understood inverse.
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Facts:
COAT - ability to control all creation.
Created bijuus using yin-yang of juubi.
Not nothing to something process, but transformation.
Facts:
> Hagoromo created the Bijuu from parts of the Juubi's chakra. Creating life
> Sasuke received the Rinnegan from Hagoromo
> Naruto displayed COAT from the Yang Seal
> Naruto is the only person besides Hagoromo who displayed the ultimate use of Yin/Yang
The best thing to say because I did not read of all of it, is that Sasuke performed a psuedo-COAT. Which leads to Kurama saying he displayed a feat of chakra distribution to the Susano'o.
Whether or not, Hagoromo created a life form, a living breathing substance of intellectual thought. Unless you can show me Susano'o who holds chakra, can hold senjutsu, and has shown being able to hold Bijuu power is an intellectual being. It's not real.
Not to mention Sasuke does not have Yin/Yang release.
The best thing to say because I did not read of all of it, is that Sasuke performed a psuedo-COAT. Which leads to Kurama saying he displayed a feat of chakra distribution to the Susano'o.
I find no basis for such claim, kurama has been damn reliable on the statements pretty much always, if it passes it as COAT and nothing challenges it, then what's the problem?
Whether or not, Hagoromo created a life form, a living breathing substance of intellectual thought. Unless you can show me Susano'o who holds chakra, can hold senjutsu, and has shown being able to hold Bijuu power is an intellectual being. It's not real.
Your mistake is that you think the sapience is a must to validate COAT, it isnt so. If sasuke wants to create yet another puppet and clad susanoo upon it, it's also within the power of COAT.
Not to mention Sasuke does not have Yin/Yang release.
One question though. Do you honestly believe Sasuke can perform the same ability as the one Naruto performed with Kakashi's eye which is presumbly the true version? Do you believe that Sasuke can recreate his arm, an eye, or an existing life form? Paths aside
One question though. Do you honestly believe Sasuke can perform the same ability as the true COAT Naruto performed with Kakashi's eye? Do you believe that Sasuke can recreate his arm, an eye, or an existing life form?
Exactly. I don't really see what they are grasping at here, but understanding the dilemma itself is not COAT nor a version of the Yin/Yang release.
Sasuke was never stated to have Yin/Yang release in the first place, in the DB only Naruto has it between the two. Yes it was before Sasuke and Naruto finished their fought, however, Sasuke is not going to automatically receive another mysterious power-up from thin air.
Going by 'ability to control all creation' from the scan, i do not see how does it matter if it's reverse, up or down.
What matters that kurama albeit indirectly, via hagoromo confirmed it as COAT.
How is that mysterious power up?
By having rinnegan, it was power down for him not to showcase it earlier.
The practical application of in a fight is not so OP either or at least kishi never made any accent on it.
The problem is that many lunatics where lead to believe that one could picture universe, charge it with power adequate to it and voalla hagoromo is universe buster with a single thought
NO! COAT is transmutation tool, both yin or yang are sacrificed from either the users or external source if provided.
Exactly. I don't really see what they are grasping at here, but understanding the dilemma itself is not COAT nor a version of the Yin/Yang release.
Sasuke was never stated to have Yin/Yang release in the first place, in the DB only Naruto has it between the two. Yes it was before Sasuke and Naruto finished their fought, however, Sasuke is not going to automatically receive another mysterious power-up from thin air.
Really doesn't matter if he has ying/yang release or not because that still doesn't give him COAT, someone with water and earth release does not necessarily have wood release. I assume they're trolling now, since kurama statement is obviously about Hagoromo splitting the chakra of the juubi up, and the reverse of that would be merging chakra which is what Sasuke did. Even assuming what he did was the reverse of COAT, you would have DOAT, destruction of all things which obviously did not happen either....
Going by 'ability to control all creation' from the scan, i do not see how does it matter if it's reverse, up or down.
What matters that kurama albeit indirectly, via hagoromo confirmed it as COAT.
The problem is, is that one, Kurama did not confirm it as COAT. Kurama confirmed that the process was the reverse of COAT, in how it would take the chakra of all 9 and mash the chakra into one being, whilst COAT took one thing and created something from it that breathed life. Second, the ability Sasuke performed was not COAT at all, all he did was take the chakra of nine different beings, and upgraded his Susano'o.
