[VS] 7th Gate Guy vs Hashirama

[Benjamin King]

Madara was effortlessly parrying his attacks, and the only reason he got in so close was because he immediately charged in upon release (the release made Madara cover his eyes). Besides, I never said he could dodge 7th Gates Gai, I merely said he won't get blitzed, big difference.

He won't get blitzed? Hashirama has no speed feats or reaction feats to say he won't get blitzed by Gai.

 

[KidGamer65]

If you're referring to the scan where they jumped off Kyuubi/Wood Golem and attacked with their swords under the moon then that example doesn't even hold because you don't know where they started and the distance they went. All you know is that they met and clashed at a certain point but if you don't know the distance they went and where they started from then you can't say they are equals. If anything, that feat only shows their physical strength is equal since one couldn't overpower the other.

-They fought in CQC from the moment PS was destroyed, and they were both holding up until Hashirama used a clone feint. Their beginning clash shows that they needed Ninjutsu to break their stalemate, so no, they are physical equals, as the manga shows.

Correct, his reaction was summoning the Rashomon Gates, now how does that reaction mean he can react to AT or even Gais blitz.

Can Gai cross an ocean in a matter of seconds? Can Hirudora cross an ocean in a matter of seconds? Uh, last time I checked...no.

Because a large creature like Gyuki reacted and evaded something that was arguably going at a higher speed than Kuramas BD. Hes a large target and it was harder for him to evade especially since it was in concentrated continuous laser form. Hashirama is a tiny target and couldn't evade, he summoned the gates to change its trajectory instead.

Him being large doesn't mean that he's slow. So you have no point here.

I just don't consider it a good feat when the fodder alliance shinobi all reacted and put up Earth Walls to the Jubis Max Dama.

Except I'm not talking about that Bijuu Dama. So I don't know why you are mentioning it.

 

[KameSennin]

7th gate guy will win

 

[Demonic.]

He won't get blitzed? Hashirama has no speed feats or reaction feats to say he won't get blitzed by Gai.

Then why couldn't Madara best him in CQC? Is Madara really that much of a fodder that he can't own someone with "no speed or reaction"

Stop acting like a retard and maybe people will take you seriously. Either madara and Hashirama are on par or Madara is even more pathetic than he already is for not being able to take down a slowpoke.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

He won't get blitzed? Hashirama has no speed feats or reaction feats to say he won't get blitzed by Gai.

He was reacting and even matching Madaras speed, who has almost blitzed SM Naruto. He was also outrunning a Bijudama, which have been proven to be extremely fast. He has also dodged PS slashes, which have also been proven to be extremely fast. Hashirama has some of the best feats in regards to speed in the manga, Top 10.

 

[Benjamin King]

He was reacting and even matching Madaras speed, who has almost blitzed SM Naruto. He was also outrunning a Bijudama, which have been proven to be extremely fast. He has also dodged PS slashes, which have also been proven to be extremely fast. Hashirama has some of the best feats in regards to speed in the manga, Top 10.

Show me scans where he and Madara fought in CQC to prove he was matching? Those scans don't exist. There is no feats of him matching Madara in CQC at all. TBB charged after Hashirama had already landed on the ground. If you're referring to this

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, the shock-waves hit the mountains and not the ground.

 

[LuckyMan]

-They fought in CQC from the moment PS was destroyed, and they were both holding up until Hashirama used a clone feint. Their beginning clash shows that they needed Ninjutsu to break their stalemate, so no, they are physical equals, as the manga shows.

Except you don't know if the fight was only CQC. Hashirama has no good feats so you're giving him Madara level feats. If we didn't see or know the stipulations of their CQC fight then we can't say one is equal to the other. I'm tired of discussing this issue.

Can Gai cross an ocean in a matter of seconds? Can Hirudora cross an ocean in a matter of seconds? Uh, last time I checked...no.

Except "Ocean" is merely an exaggeration on your part. That is not an ocean, their are no oceans bordering the land of Fire and Sound. That was the stream Hashirama and Madara use to skip stones across and eventually became a lake. Its actually no where near the size of an ocean:

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. Considering SM Naruto scaled the God Tree in seconds, I'm going to go ahead and say 7G Gai can cross a lake in seconds as well. Oh and yes AT can too.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

Show me scans where he and Madara fought in CQC to prove he was matching? Those scans don't exist. There is no feats of him matching Madara in CQC at all. TBB charged after Hashirama had already landed on the ground. If you're referring to this

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, the shock-waves hit the mountains and not the ground.

You should seriously get your facts straight before saying something like the bolded.

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,

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,

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and

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is Hashirama outright dodging a attack from Madara, not only a regular punch like Madara did against SM Naruto, but a extended rod. And before you say Madara was Edo, as was Hashirama, so that's not an excuse.

Once again you are wrong, it outright shows Hashirama in the air and the Bijudama fired

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, Hashirama is high up in the air at that, you can see a mountain at the bottom of the panel, and Kurama is on his two lets, making him larger then a couple mountains stacked up on each other. Despite this, Hashirama outran the Bijudama, landed on the ground, summoned Rashōmen and Bijudama still did not reach him.

In that panel, he dodges the swing itself,

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he not only reacts to the swing, but uses a Jutsu before the swing reaches him. The same swing that even base Ei couldn't react to, the same Ei who's reflexes are said to be on par with Minato's.

 

[KidGamer65]

Except you don't know if the fight was only CQC. Hashirama has no good feats so you're giving him Madara level feats. If we didn't see or know the stipulations of their CQC fight then we can't say one is equal to the other. I'm tired of discussing this issue.

Madara and Hashirama's moves were obliterated, they charged at each, then they are shown holding weapons, and they are damaged. Thus it was CQC. That simple.

They were shown clashing at the beginning, only

Except "Ocean" is merely an exaggeration on your part. That is not an ocean, their are no oceans bordering the land of Fire and Sound. That was the stream Hashirama and Madara use to skip stones across and eventually became a lake. Its actually no where near the size of an ocean:

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. Considering SM Naruto scaled the God Tree in seconds, I'm going to go ahead and say 7G Gai can cross a lake in seconds as well. Oh and yes AT can too.

Doesn't even matter if it was an ocean. Distance is still massive, and based on what is the Shinju as wide as the distance from that shore to the one the Bijuu Dama exploded on?

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And lol, that obviously isn't the stream that Hashirama and Madara used to skip stones across.

 

[MickNerks]

Hashirama wins but it is far from a stomp. And it would require him to enter sage mode to win. Base Hashirama loses to 7th gate guy.

Had to correct my post. Didn't realize the distance. GUY wins low-mid diff if they start 30 meters apart and guy is in 7th gate. Hashirama won't have time to weave a single hand sign

 

[Benjamin King]

You should seriously get your facts straight before saying something like the bolded.

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,

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,

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and

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is Hashirama outright dodging a attack from Madara, not only a regular punch like Madara did against SM Naruto, but a extended rod. And before you say Madara was Edo, as was Hashirama, so that's not an excuse.

Your interoperation and argumentation are so poor. 1st scan, it literally doesn't support your speculation. They were kids and Madara had not awoke the Sharingan by that age, so there is no way you can assert he was equal in CQC. 2nd scan, lmao...I hope you realize clashing with a sword and then pushed back has literally no conclusion to making you equal in CQC. Again, like scan 2, clashing someone with weapons does not make you equal in CQC. And not to mention they were having a conversation. And what are you even referring to the rods? They were stuck to his back later on. If he had actual CQC to Madara, he wouldn't have been stabbed.

For starters, you probably don't know what CQC even means. You have no feats and evidence Hashirama had equal CQC to Madara, considering there was never shown a scan to fight in CQC. Deidara fought against Team Gai; did that make him equal to all of them combined in CQC? Absolutely not. Kakuzu fought and survived against Hashirama; did that make him equal in CQC? Absolutely not. You cannot make a conclusion out of something when you never seen it.

Once again you are wrong, it outright shows Hashirama in the air and the Bijudama fired here, Hashirama is high up in the air at that, you can see a mountain at the bottom of the panel, and Kurama is on his two lets, making him larger then a couple mountains stacked up on each other. Despite this, Hashirama outran the Bijudama, landed on the ground, summoned Rashōmen and Bijudama still did not reach him.

For starters, TBB doesn't cross at a great speed. The Shinobi Alliance can equal their attacks at the same velocity as TBB. [

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] So no, you haven't even shown me a great speed feat, and TBB is not an example of great speed feat.

In that panel, he dodges the swing itself, here he not only reacts to the swing, but uses a Jutsu before the swing reaches him. The same swing that even base Ei couldn't react to, the same Ei who's reflexes are said to be on par with Minato's.

The sword didn't swing at the same speed as it did 2 scans afterwards. PS sword was never aimed at Ay. Ay's said reflexes were debunked by feats.

---

Let's see why Hashirama has no logical CQC feats: First, he was struck by rods by Madara. If he had equal CQC to Madara, he would not have possibly been struck by them. Second, Juubito outright blitzed Hashirama's clone (contains his physical capacity) whereas Tobirama tagged him 5 times in process. And Tobirama is the same guy who was inferior to Madara in CQC.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

Your interoperation and argumentation are so poor. 1st scan, it literally doesn't support your speculation. They were kids and Madara had not awoke the Sharingan by that age, so there is no way you can assert he was equal in CQC. 2nd scan, lmao...I hope you realize clashing with a sword and then pushed back has literally no conclusion to making you equal in CQC. Again, like scan 2, clashing someone with weapons does not make you equal in CQC. And not to mention they were having a conversation. And what are you even referring to the rods? They were stuck to his back later on. If he had actual CQC to Madara, he wouldn't have been stabbed.

1st shows the common theme (at least until Madara used Rinne Tensei on himself) that Hashirama was always superior to Madara, he beat Madara in CQC. You do realize that clashing with swords in the same manner that they did (Used Shunshin towards each other from their respective sides) is Hashirama matching Madara in speed right? The fact that they clashed equally, not only once, but multiple times means that they where equal in CQC. He dodged Madaras attempt at sticking a rod in him, that means his reaction speed >> War Arc SM Naruto's, cause the latter was not even able to do anything more the block, and he only managed to block a regular attack, while Hashirama completely dodged a actual sword length attack. No, if Hashirama was far superior to Madara in CQC then he wouldn't be stabbed, he could have been equal or even close to Madara in CQC and still would have been stabbed, but would have also landed a hit of his own in the process, and he obviously did, considering he beat Madara.

For starters, you probably don't know what CQC even means. You have no feats and evidence Hashirama had equal CQC to Madara, considering there was never shown a scan to fight in CQC. Deidara fought against Team Gai; did that make him equal to all of them combined in CQC? Absolutely not. Kakuzu fought and survived against Hashirama; did that make him equal in CQC? Absolutely not. You cannot make a conclusion out of something when you never seen it.

lol how ignorant, I just showed you 4 scans of them fighting CQC, and yes, fighting with weapons is still CQC. Hashirama was equal in two, and bested him in two. The most relevant one, him dodging a extended attack from Madara, signifies that he is significantly above SM Naruto's level of reflexes, which means he should not have much trouble reacting to 7th Gated Guy. Deidara was getting punched around by Team Guy so.......completely invalid argument. We have absolutely no idea what went down between Kakuzu and Hashirama, a completely invalid argument. Yet we have not only seen once, but FOUR times.

For starters, TBB doesn't cross at a great speed. The Shinobi Alliance can equal their attacks at the same velocity as TBB. [

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] So no, you haven't even shown me a great speed feat, and TBB is not an example of great speed feat.

Gai needed 8th Gate to dodge the Bijudamas, which means he would be able to dodge it in the 7th gate even if he tried to run away before they where fired. We have no idea which attack landed first between the SA attacks and the Bijudama, though considering the Bijudama is shown exploded behind them, while the arms are shown pushed back by the attacks, its safe to say the Bijudama came earlier then the rest, otherwise the Bijudama wouldn't have hit anything and still exploded, which wouldn't happen.

The sword didn't swing at the same speed as it did 2 scans afterwards. PS sword was never aimed at Ay. Ay's said reflexes were debunked by feats.

The Swing was a swing, Hashirama not only reacted to it, but performed a Jutsu in time to catch it. Ei's reflexes where never debunked.

Let's see why Hashirama has no logical CQC feats: First, he was struck by rods by Madara. If he had equal CQC to Madara, he would not have possibly been struck by them. Second, Juubito outright blitzed Hashirama's clone (contains his physical capacity) whereas Tobirama tagged him 5 times in process. And Tobirama is the same guy who was inferior to Madara in CQC.

Hashirama being struck by Madaras rods just means he is not far above Madara in CQC. Hashiramas clone has nowhere near his own level of reflexes lol, they contain little of his overall power, including physical power. Besides, Juubito has also blitzed Naruto (on multiple occasions) and Sasuke, Tobirama reacting to him just speaks volumes about Tobiramas reflexes, though Hashiramas clone getting blitzed by no means downplays his own reflexes. Nowhere was it stated that Tobirama is inferior to Madara in CQC, even if we assume that Madara did nothing but CQC in their confrontation (which is unlikely, given the fact he used Limbo on Sasuke right after, which means he likely used it on Tobirama), that was a SM Reborn Madara, not a regular Madara.

Fact remains, Hashirama has equally clashed with Madara in CQC on more then one occasion. He has also outright dodged an extended attack from him (which is honestly the only relevant thing here), which ALONE puts his reflexes significantly above SM Naruto's.

 

[Benjamin King]

1st shows the common theme (at least until Madara used Rinne Tensei on himself) that Hashirama was always superior to Madara, he beat Madara in CQC. You do realize that clashing with swords in the same manner that they did (Used Shunshin towards each other from their respective sides) is Hashirama matching Madara in speed right? The fact that they clashed equally, not only once, but multiple times means that they where equal in CQC. He dodged Madaras attempt at sticking a rod in him, that means his reaction speed >> War Arc SM Naruto's, cause the latter was not even able to do anything more the block, and he only managed to block a regular attack, while Hashirama completely dodged a actual sword length attack. No, if Hashirama was far superior to Madara in CQC then he wouldn't be stabbed, he could have been equal or even close to Madara in CQC and still would have been stabbed, but would have also landed a hit of his own in the process, and he obviously did, considering he beat Madara.

@Bold: Shunshin cannot be used on air; It's a body fast movement. Clashing multiple times doesn't make you equal to someone in CQC. Kakashi and Gai clashed multiple times as rivals, but we know Gai has far greater Taijutsu and CQC than Kakashi. Neji and Lee challenged many times, until Lee proved he was far superior to Neji. Same with Madara and Hashirama...they were equal mainly in their destructive and raw use of Ninjutsu, something we have seen in their fights. We've never seen them fight directly hand-to-hand combat, thus we cannot make a baseless speculation that they have. For we all we know, Madara has feats to prove he's great in CQC. Hashirama doesn't.

@Underlined: Not sure if stupid, because Madara never went in full speed when stabbing Hashirama with the rod on the panel. The motion line would show if he did. There is no excuses. Hashirama got rods stuck to his back, which means he lost in CQC. No excuses whatsoever.

lol how ignorant, I just showed you 4 scans of them fighting CQC, and yes, fighting with weapons is still CQC. Hashirama was equal in two, and bested him in two. The most relevant one, him dodging a extended attack from Madara, signifies that he is significantly above SM Naruto's level of reflexes, which means he should not have much trouble reacting to 7th Gated Guy. Deidara was getting punched around by Team Guy so.......completely invalid argument. We have absolutely no idea what went down between Kakuzu and Hashirama, a completely invalid argument. Yet we have not only seen once, but FOUR times.

Not a relevant CQC feat if you simply clash with a sword and pushed back, unless by that argument, Sasuke has equal sword CQC with Bee because he simply blocked a few of his Kenjutsu attacks. Too bad the rods have later struck his back. Naruto sensed Juubito, who blitzed Hashirama wide-open. Reread the manga. [

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] Deidara was stalemating Team Gai, despite being a long-range fighter and Gai's team are all masters of Taijutsu aside TenTen. The argument between Kakuzu vs Hashirama was to show fighting someone and surviving against him, doesn't mean you're equal to them in CQC or in any fighting style.

Gai needed 8th Gate to dodge the Bijudamas, which means he would be able to dodge it in the 7th gate even if he tried to run away before they where fired. We have no idea which attack landed first between the SA attacks and the Bijudama, though considering the Bijudama is shown exploded behind them, while the arms are shown pushed back by the attacks, its safe to say the Bijudama came earlier then the rest, otherwise the Bijudama wouldn't have hit anything and still exploded, which wouldn't happen.

No, he needed 8th Gate to stop the Bijuu from firing their TBB, otherwise Kakashi would die if he leaves him there. Lmao, it's clearly seen by the naked eye they're on par in velocity. I can highlight if you have vision problems.

The Swing was a swing, Hashirama not only reacted to it, but performed a Jutsu in time to catch it. Ei's reflexes where never debunked.

A swing is not always fast or slow. Madara waved it at a slow motion. If he can react to it, the scan afterwards would not show him flying and his Mokuton construction being sliced. Ay's reflexes were debunked when he couldn't match Minato's, in regards to your statement of having comparable reflexes to Minato.

Hashirama being struck by Madaras rods just means he is not far above Madara in CQC. Hashiramas clone has nowhere near his own level of reflexes lol, they contain little of his overall power, including physical power. Besides, Juubito has also blitzed Naruto (on multiple occasions) and Sasuke, Tobirama reacting to him just speaks volumes about Tobiramas reflexes, though Hashiramas clone getting blitzed by no means downplays his own reflexes. Nowhere was it stated that Tobirama is inferior to Madara in CQC, even if we assume that Madara did nothing but CQC in their confrontation (which is unlikely, given the fact he used Limbo on Sasuke right after, which means he likely used it on Tobirama), that was a SM Reborn Madara, not a regular Madara.

What the actual hell? If you're stabbed by someone in close-range, and failing to react and intercept them, it means you're not good at close-range combat. Hashirama getting struck by multiple rods means he's close-range capacity is underwhelming, given he failed to dodge or react to them. Wrong, they contain little of his Chakra. Chakra /=/ physical capacity. Clone has identical physical capabilities to his original, considering they're created from their bodies. So, Hashirama's clone had his reaction time, speed, reflexes. Despite all of that, he's inferior to Tobirama. And Regular Madara is one who can react to speed of lighting [

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] and react to Ay [

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]. The same Ay who had close speed to Minato, who surpasses the Hokages in speed. [

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] And not only that, Madara stole SM directly from Hashirama. Also, we're not interested in hearing speculation that Madara used Limbo on Tobirama and Sasuke. So please, don't bring it here.

Fact remains, Hashirama has equally clashed with Madara in CQC on more then one occasion. He has also outright dodged an extended attack from him (which is honestly the only relevant thing here), which ALONE puts his reflexes significantly above SM Naruto's.

Clashing someone doesn't make you equal to them in CQC, as that would mean Deidara is equal to Team Gai in CQC and Kakashi equal to Gai in CQC, despite the difference was shown. The black rods were struck to his back, get that in your head. SM Naruto had reactions and sensing to intercept Juubito, who blitzed Hashirama.

 

[Touken]

A "boom" sound doesn't automatically mean it was a sonic boom. A Sonic Boom isn't the only thing in the universe that makes a boom sound, thus you can't say that it was a Sonic Boom. Sonic Booms occur in the air anyway, Gai was on the ground when that panel was shown. Gai punching fast enough to create flame isn't a sign of Gai being able to Shunshin faster than the speed of sound, since when was it even an indicator of surpassing the speed of sound?

Yeah, I'm well aware that there's loads of things out there that can make a boom sound, but I'm pretty sure it was a sonic boom given the context. If not then you tell me what kind of boom it is because the only explanation that does actually make sense is that boom being a sonic boom. Gai travelled through the air to get to Kisame, can't show scans because I'm on my phone.

Gai's Shunshin speed is not as fast as his striking speed. Pretty clear from manga panels, so even if Asa Kujaku is him moving faster than sound, it doesn't mean he'll move from point A to point B faster than Sound.

What? Every shinobi's Shunshin is faster than their striking speed, I thought that was made evident in the manga. You can enhance your base foot speed with a jutsu (that being Shunshin) but you can't do the same with your striking speed. If Gai's strikes are faster than sound then his Shunshin is most definitely faster than sound.

That scan shows something that looks like its being smashed through, which I could have sworn is the sound barrier. If that is the Sound Barrier, then we know its faster than sound. If its not, then what was that?

Can't exactly analyze the scan properly on my phone but if it was faster than sound and Chiyo managed to evade it or form some type of defence then Sasori would have definitely stated something along the lines of "you blocked one of my fastest attacks".

 

[Touken]

Sasuke moved faster than sound in CM mode. End of discussion.

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What? I wasn't aware compressed air being fired is faster than the speed of sound.

 

[KidGamer65]

Yeah, I'm well aware that there's loads of things out there that can make a boom sound, but I'm pretty sure it was a sonic boom given the context. If not then you tell me what kind of boom it is because the only explanation that does actually make sense is that boom being a sonic boom. Gai travelled through the air to get to Kisame, can't show scans because I'm on my phone.

1. Kishimoto doesn't put those sfx there, the scanlators do, so that is one piece of evidence that shows that they can't be trusted as 100% valid.

2. He traveled through the air but the boom occurred when he jumped off the ground. Sonic Booms don't occur like that, they occur while you are already mid air. So that couldn't have been a sonic boom.

No idea what it'd be, probably just a loud noise from Gai jumping off the ground, and they chose to describe it as a boom, like an explosion. Definitely not a sonic boom though.

What? Every shinobi's Shunshin is faster than their striking speed, I thought that was made evident in the manga. You can enhance your base foot speed with a jutsu (that being Shunshin) but you can't do the same with your striking speed. If Gai's strikes are faster than sound then his Shunshin is most definitely faster than sound.

Lol. The opposite was made evident in the manga. One being able to enhanced doesn't mean that it will always be faster than the one that can't be enhanced. Senjutsu Susanoo and the Kurama Avatar struck at Juubito so fast that he couldn't evade, yet neither of them can run that fast. Tobirama tagged Juubito before he got ripped apart, yet Tobirama can't Shunshin faster than Juubito can. Neji certainly doesn't move faster than his 64 palms attack. 7G Gai was pushing Madara back with his striking and movement speed combined, but 7G Gai doesn't move faster than him.

Can't exactly analyze the scan properly on my phone but if it was faster than sound and Chiyo managed to evade it or form some type of defence then Sasori would have definitely stated something along the lines of "you blocked one of my fastest attacks".

Except fast attacks from many characters have been evaded, and not all the characters have said those words. You can visibly tell that that was Sasori's fastest attack, whether or not it was faster than Sound, so what he didn't state is irrelevant. From what he showed us, he has no faster attack.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Hashirama with the lowest of difficulty...

 

[Touken]

1. Kishimoto doesn't put those sfx there, the scanlators do, so that is one piece of evidence that shows that they can't be trusted as 100% valid.

Didn't know about this. Could you link me with evidence about this?

2. He traveled through the air but the boom occurred when he jumped off the ground. Sonic Booms don't occur like that, they occur while you are already mid air. So that couldn't have been a sonic boom.

Unless his speed decreased as he was travelling through the air, there's no reason as to why that wasn't a sonic boom.

@bold: Bullets? The crack that's produced from a gun is the result of the bullet being fired travelling faster than the speed of sound, but it's not already in mid-air. It's stationary at first and as soon as it leaves the barrel of the gun the crack is produced. Gai replicated the exact same thing.

No idea what it'd be, probably just a loud noise from Gai jumping off the ground, and they chose to describe it as a boom, like an explosion. Definitely not a sonic boom though.

And you just described a sonic boom:

Sonic booms generate enormous amounts of sound energy, sounding much like an explosion.

Lol. The opposite was made evident in the manga. One being able to enhanced doesn't mean that it will always be faster than the one that can't be enhanced. Senjutsu Susanoo and the Kurama Avatar struck at Juubito so fast that he couldn't evade, yet neither of them can run that fast. Tobirama tagged Juubito before he got ripped apart, yet Tobirama can't Shunshin faster than Juubito can. Neji certainly doesn't move faster than his 64 palms attack. 7G Gai was pushing Madara back with his striking and movement speed combined, but 7G Gai doesn't move faster than him.

Naruto and Sasuke had to predict where he was going to be. That is in no way evidence of striking speed being quicker than Shunshin. Tobirama was tagging an opponent moving at him, although it was an impressive feat, it in no way implies his striking speed is quicker than Juubito's Shunshin. If that was the case, SM Madara would have been struck down by Tobirama's Hiraishingiri, unless you believe SM Madara can react to Juubito which is completely absurd. Neji's an entirely different case, his fighting style revolves around his strikes being his fastest form of attack. The Hyuuga clan are the only exception to Shunshin being quicker than striking. 7G Gai was also able to take Madara completely by surprise with his Shunshin alone [

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][

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]. If his Shunshin wasn't quick then Madara would have killed him as soon as Gai appeared before him, and don't say he couldn't see past the cloud of smoke that was created by opening 7G considering he has both SM sensing and sensing granted by being the Juubi's host.

Except fast attacks from many characters have been evaded, and not all the characters have said those words. You can visibly tell that that was Sasori's fastest attack, whether or not it was faster than Sound, so what he didn't state is irrelevant. From what he showed us, he has no faster attack.

Then it just shows that Sasori's fastest attack isn't as fast as you think, and it's pretty difficult to 'visibly' tell that was Sasori's fastest attack when we're seeing said attack on a manga page; we discern how fast something is by comparing it to something else, by other's displayed reactions, and by statements, not by simply seeing it on the page.