As I said, the general consensus for some members on this forum is that Gai can get in Jubidaras face before he can evade and leave him with no other options but parry Gai because he can't cut him down so its being put into question of exactly where his speed is. All forms of his speed. Capish?
Shunshin speed has nothing to do with that. The first part isn't a general consensus. So I'm not going to entertain that nonsense.
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Clearly that user states stopping the attack was all Madara could do and
dodging wasn't a choice for him to which you replied
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so you admitted Madara couldn't shunshin away to dodge but here you are now saying
he could have if he wanted to.
Pretty sure he's talking about when Gai prepped Hirudora, not when Gai got up in his face.
Sasuke was blitzed by Jubito on foot with Naruto. The point you're talking about is Jubito in flight and theres no evidence that flight vitalizes the body and multiplies its capacity letting it move at extreme speeds (like shunshin does) so don't say Sasuke had to adjust to his speed because its clear flight ability is not shunshin and no one is going from being flat out shit blitzed against a version who couldn't properly control its chakra to reacting normally against that same person but now in full control 20 minutes later. When I say react, I mean physically by the way (which will be the case against Gai).
@bold: Kaguya evades Sasuke's Ameno blitz with flight speed. Lol. Onoki and Mu move at high speeds via flight, though I suppose that's something different, but yeah. Kaguya evades Rinnegan Sasuke with pure flight. That is proof alone that flight is a high speed movement. Little reason for me to believe that it's slow compared to his Shunshin.
Then there's the fact he was moving so fast that EMS and BSM sensing couldn't track him, yet KCM Naruto could follow and outspeed the likes of Ay. That puts Juubito far above the likes of Ay and BSM Naruto (let alone KCM Naruto) in speed. The rest is you saying that it won't happen, when the manga shows that it did. They couldn't tag Juubito. They couldn't properly follow his speed. Naruto states "I'm starting to sense him". Sasuke follows suit, and then they tag him. That is an adjustment.
You're confusing mental reactions with physical ones. Sasuke controls Susanoo with his mind. He mentally had it swing at Jubito, there was nothing physical he had to do with his own body. When he needed to physically react he didn't. I hope you don't believe if Jubito in control was to blitz Sasuke with shunshin on the ground again in same scenario he'd be able to swing his sword and cut hit him before hes blitzed or evade. Even if I assume his eyes improved to track Jubito as you're led to believe (well thats true at least for flight) thats all in the mind and your body needs to be trained physically and need the sufficient reflexes if you want to guard, shunshin away, or evade with some swift bodily movement which we know Sasuke didn't receive in mere minutes after he got blitzed with no reaction at all despite Choku Tomo locked on Jubito.
No, I'm not. I know Sasuke's mental reaction is why he was able to strike Juubito. That's why Madara can active Susanoo before the slower Gai can kill him. So you pretty much wasted your whole time on this paragraph.
Sasuke mentally reacting doesn't mean Hashirama can physically react. You're doing exactly what I mentioned earlier, rating Hashirama by implications, not by feats, but then do the exact opposite for other characters and think you aren't being biased. Hashirama has no feats to equal him with Madara in hand speed, reactions/reflexes, and movement speed yet you're claiming he is because the manga implied it but when the manga flat out states Ay is fastest man alive (even after 7G was revealed) since Minatos death but you rate that by feats and say thats not true.
That's why I said it's a maybe for him. Not to mention I never said Hashirama can physically react to Juubito. I said he can physically react to the much slower Gai. So once again, not relevant. Lol. I can rate Hashirama and Madara based on their CQC panel time because there is nothing that contradicts that like Ay's self proclaimed "fastest man in the world" title. Learn the difference and then you can call me biased.
And no feats? They clashed in CQC and tied. Twice. If two people are equal in strength, durability, and speed but one has far greater reactions, then that one will stomp the other in CQC. We saw this with Naruto and Sasuke in Part 1. 3-T Sasuke surpassed Naruto's reaction speed and he beat the shit out of him. So tell me. How do Hashirama and Madara clash in CQC, and equal each other on two occasions if one couldn't react as fast as the other one?
They don't. That's the answer. Lol. That alone is proof that they are equals in striking speed, physical strength, reaction speed, and possibly movement speed. The latter is the only thing I might end up conceding on, but the rest? Nope.
Ay stated that he was the fastest alive, and then Gai came and proved that wrong. Either in movement speed, just reaction and striking, or in overall speed. Either way, it doesn't matter.
Since you think he and Madara are equals I'll use all Madara feats as examples for Hashirama. Does Madara have the physical reaction feats to react to V2 Ay like Minato did? No. Edo Madara blocked V1 Ay but theres no telling if he'll be able to put his arms up like that versus Ay who upped his speed another tier so theres no telling if Hashirama can react to V2 Ay.
Physical? Yes. The feats exist.
1. EMS Sasuke and KCM Naruto are equal in speed (EMS Sasuke's reaction speed equals BSM Naruto w/ the peak of his EMS precognition) outside of Shunshin. [
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]
2. EMS Sasuke tracked Juubito, who is far faster than V2 Ay and BSM Naruto.
3. KCM Naruto evaded Ay on foot. So if Ay came rushing at him, he'd be able to block. And that only requires he put his arms up.
4. Sasuke's movements are as fast as Naruto's, outside of Shunshin. And with a matured EMS, his reaction speed surpasses KCM Naruto's. So Sasuke would physically react to Ay's blitz. Though he'd probably get smashed if he took a direct hit, but that's not the point.
5. EMS Madara is faster than EMS Sasuke, so he can do the same, but faster.
6. Hashirama is equals in striking/hand speed and reaction speed. He can do the same.
When Minato gains KCM/BM he becomes >>>> V2 Ay in all speeds. KCM/BM Minato >>>> V2 Ay and as you said, Gai is faster than KCM/BM Minato
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. By your logic there should be zero way Hashirama can raise his arms to form a seal or guard against 7G Gai, SM or not, unless Hashiramas reactions are on par or close with Jubidara.
I claimed that because KCM Minato's feats are piss poor in comparison to how fast he should be going off Naruto's improvement. His reaction speed should be miles above EMS Sasuke's and KCM Naruto's, yet the small scuffle against Juubito doesn't show that. It shows them being close to him in reaction speed. So I stopped believing that KCM Minato had some extremely large gap in speed when it came to KCM Naruto and Ay.
As for Madara, he couldn't react to use Susanoo when V1 Ay blitzed him so what hope does he has against someone who is faster than BM Minato, who is tiers and tiers and tiers above V1 Ay? You might claim he didn't want to use Susanoo but then I'll use your own logic against you where you claimed if Madara could hit Gai he would have like he did Minato but he didn't which means he couldn't do it.
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. So if Madara could put up Susanoo against Ay, he would have did it, just like he did to Tsuande.
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Madara not being able to react against V1 Ay to use Susanoo is probably the dumbest thing I've heard all day. He saw Ay coming, and blocked his attack with his arms, yet somehow his mental reaction was too slow to use a jutsu he only needs to think to use? Let's be serious pal. The rest is irrelevant because of that simple fact. You can't claim that Madara chose not to hit Gai when:
1. There is no proof for that claim.
2. He already showed us his reaction to threats like that.
Madara chose not to use Susanoo because he did something on panel, that is factually slower than activating Susanoo. This nonsense clashes with the beginning of your post where you were attempting to tell me the difference between mental and physical reaction. If you disagree, it'd be you admitting that you believe physical reaction>mental reaction in speed, thus:
-Sasuke physically reacts to Juubito.
-Itachi physically reacts to Kirin.
Come on now. Lol
Oh but now Gai is using shunshin. First you claimed unlike Ay hes using pure foot speed (no shunshin), but I guess you'd say that now because if thats just Gais foot speed then you'd have to sum up what his shunshin would be in 7G, 8G level perhaps?
Lol. Read before you post pal. Before you post.
He probably doesn't use Shunshin, but it's easier calling it this so I'm gonna call it Shunshin
I'm calling it Shunshin cause it's easier to give it a term. Gates users don't use Shunshin from what I can tell. That includes Gai. Gai doesn't use Shunshin so there is no "How fast his Shunshin would be".
Already addressed above. There should be zero ways Hashirama can react to form seals in front of 7G when Minato or KCM Naruto couldn't preform them before Ay, unless Hashiramas reactions are superior to theirs. The time that Gai makes the seal or "stop to make it" wont matter because Gai is already leagues above him in speed and will be in his face before he blinks.
You'd have a small point, if KCM Minato were that much faster than V2 Ay...but even if you proved that he was, it wouldn't matter since that'd invalidate my original claim. That KCM Minato is slower than Gai.
The same thought he failed to produce in time against Ay but not against Tsunade? Yeah, means he can't do it.
Your argument was worth replying to, somewhat, until this part. Lol. Don't continue this point. It's dumb.
