656 clarification

[DeadManWonderLand]

The one casting Rinne Tensei does not suddenly become the new host for the one being reincarnated.
How anyone began to think that is so far beyond me that i cannot ever hope to understand that logic.

Did Nagato's body turn into someone else ?
No?
Then why suddenly would it act differently ?
Short answer is ,it won't.



Another thing that amazes me is the fact that many say hashirama is without a doubt stronger then madara at this point.
He isn't.
Now that is not to say he can't beat him.
Pure power is not the sole dictation of who wins a shinobi battle.


However,what i am want to talk about specifically is the moment in where hashirama brought down his Sage Art: Gate of the Great God over madara.

This made people shout that this proves he won and that madara was trapped and could not move.


1. As i have explained earlier the rinne teseni does not give you the body of the castor.
Madara did not switch places with obito nor did he acquire his body.(A body that is completely exhausted at this point.)
Madara was using the fact that the SA thought he was subdued to complete his counter attack.

Initiating a counter attack best works when you don't have a thousand shinobi dog piling on you while you stand there and carry out the plan.

And after he was revived what did madara do ?

HE BROKE OUT.

This does not mean he has more power then the juubi.
The juubi at the time was mindless and could not focus its power (THIS WAS SPECIFICALLY POINTED OUT DURING THE FIGHT AND BY ONE OF THE KAGE AFTER OBITO BECAME JUUBITO)

 

[Wolfus]

Thank you. Great thread. I was about to make a thread about the obito and madara thing as well. People can't interpret what they read. When madara said "let's change places" or something like that, he meant that obito, who was alive, would now die for madara to live again.

Another thing is people saying that rinne tensei madara> juubito. We haven't even seen what the guy can do, and people make this affirmatives without a single evidence

Again, great thread. I guess you have to explain it word by word to some guys.

 

[itachi4real]

Great...u cleared s*** up

 

[esenn1]

same thoughts here dudes

 

[ANiMUS]

The one casting Rinne Tensei does not suddenly become the new host for the one being reincarnated.
How anyone began to think that is so far beyond me that i cannot ever hope to understand that logic.

Did Nagato's body turn into someone else ?
No?
Then why suddenly would it act differently ?
Short answer is ,it won't.



Another thing that amazes me is the fact that many say hashirama is without a doubt stronger then madara at this point.
He isn't.
Now that is not to say he can't beat him.
Pure power is not the sole dictation of who wins a shinobi battle.


However,what i am want to talk about specifically is the moment in where hashirama brought down his Sage Art: Gate of the Great God over madara.

This made people shout that this proves he won and that madara was trapped and could not move.


1. As i have explained earlier the rinne teseni does not give you the body of the castor.
Madara did not switch places with obito nor did he acquire his body.(A body that is completely exhausted at this point.)
Madara was using the fact that the SA thought he was subdued to complete his counter attack.

Initiating a counter attack best works when you don't have a thousand shinobi dog piling on you while you stand there and carry out the plan.

And after he was revived what did madara do ?

HE BROKE OUT.

This does not mean he has more power then the juubi.
The juubi at the time was mindless and could not focus its power (THIS WAS SPECIFICALLY POINTED OUT DURING THE FIGHT AND BY ONE OF THE KAGE AFTER OBITO BECAME JUUBITO)

Question: This same justu was part of Madara's original plan.
He wanted to use Nagato to cast the rinne tensei once he had gathered all the bijuu. This would according, to Madara resuurect Madara as the next So6P and Juubi jinchuuriki. So is it wrong to assume that because Madara is synced with the Mazo that if the current user (Obito) used the rinne tensei to resurect the former user (Madara) then the powers accumulated by the Mazo would transfer over to the new weilder??? Hence the word transfer.

 

[Aya San]

I don't know why people think they'd switch bodies either...

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Question: This same justu was part of Madara's original plan.
He wanted to use Nagato to cast the rinne tensei once he had gathered all the bijuu. This would according, to Madara resuurect Madara as the next So6P and Juubi jinchuuriki. So is it wrong to assume that because Madara is synced with the Mazo that if the current user (Obito) used the rinne tensei then the powers accumulated by the Mazo would transfer over to the new weilder??? Hence the word transfer.

He was speaking of the overall grand scheme he did not literally mean everything would transfer over
If that were the case he could of just tried taking over obito while he was a jinchruuriki although that is not the case.

He as going to force nagato to revive him and as you can see the eyes don't dissipate once the user is dead.
Madara would of retrieved his eyes after being resurrected and carried out the rest of his plan.
He has a channel of zetsu underground scattered throughout the lands so he knows what is going on even while being confined in the cave.

At one point he would of forces his will (Black zetsu) on nagato if not obito.

Being brought back when the timing was right (Remember he was very **** about the exact time and about having all the tailed beast first) The state of how things are now is because obito rushed things.

In madara's version every tailed beast would of been captured and he would of been brought back in time to become the jinchuuriki himself essentially making him the next sage.

He did not mean a literal transfer.

 

[ANiMUS]

He was speaking of the overall grand scheme he did not literally mean everything would transfer over
If that were the case he could of just tried taking over obito while he was a jinchruuriki although that is not the case.

He as going to force nagato to revive him and as you can see the eyes don't dissipate once the user is dead.
Madara would of retrieved his eyes after being resurrected and carried out the rest of his plan.
He has a channel of zetsu underground scattered throughout the lands so he knows what is going on even while being confined in the cave.

At one point he would of forces his will (Black zetsu) on nagato if not obito.

Being brought back when the timing was right (Remember he was very **** about the exact time and about having all the tailed beast first) The state of how things are now is because obito rushed things.

In madara's version every tailed beast would of been captured and he would of been brought back in time to become the jinchuuriki himself essentially making him the next sage.

He did not mean a literal transfer.

So in other words this is what you interpreted that to mean.
I was asking whether the idea I gave is plausible and if you would have said no I wanted a reason.
In manga there is no way to claim interpretations as facts without proof, non circumstantial proof.
As we can see from Madara's resurrection there was no need to retrieve his eyes seeing how Madara was reborn with them even though his eyes from before still exist.

If anyone were to betray Nagato it would have been Obito not black zetsu. Remember Nagato's purpose was to use the bijuu to create a weapon to show the world true pain. Seeing how Obito desired Infinite tsukuyomi, once Nagato had gathered all the tailed beasts Obito would have seized control of Nagato, or killed him and then taken control of the Mazo for himself. Then, Madara would have had black zetsu take control of Obito to force him to use Rinne Tensei reviving Madara in his ideal state.

Interpreting Madara's plan this way connects all the actions and precautions that Madara has taken so far leaving minimal gray area. You have to connect the different device Madara has used in order to do things proper leaving as little guess work as possible

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

So in other words this is what you interpreted that to mean.
I was asking whether the idea I gave is plausible and if you would have said no I wanted a reason.
In manga there is no way to claim interpretations as facts without proof, non circumstantial proof.
As we can see from Madara's resurrection there was no need to retrieve his eyes seeing how Madara was reborn with them even though his eyes from before still exist.

If anyone were to betray Nagato it would have been Obito not black zetsu. Remember Nagato's purpose was to use the bijuu to create a weapon to show the world true pain. Seeing how Obito desired Infinite tsukuyomi, once Nagato had gathered all the tailed beasts Obito would have seized control of Nagato, or killed him and then taken control of the Mazo for himself. Then, Madara would have had black zetsu take control of Obito to force him to use Rinne Tensei reviving Madara in his ideal state.

Interpreting Madara's plan this way connects all the actions and precautions that Madara has taken so far leaving minimal gray area. You have to connect the different device Madara has used in order to do things proper leaving as little guess work as possible

Nothing you said has anything to do with your question.
And nothing you said in this post negates anything i have said.
I have no idea what you trying to get at but,the short answer i guess i should of gave you from the start is no.
Nothing transfers over from rinne tesenei.

I was just expanding my answer to your question for those reading the thread so i did not have to repeat myself on some of the finer details of the plan madara had in mind and how rinne tense has worked in the past.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Madara's original plan was to be brought back by rinne tensei at the right time.
The right time being when all tailed beast were gathered.
It doesn't matter what nagato intended to do.
Black zetsu would of fought for control over his body to bring back madara.
And at that moment madara would of taken back his eyes.
He would then proceed to retrieve his rinnegan and become the next jinchuuriki.

That was his plan.Then obito came.
Someone who he could watch over and train personally and most importantly one who would follow his plan down to the exact detail.
I have no clue why you think zetsu would of not betrayed nagato.
Zetsu is madara's henchman first before anyone else's.

 

[ANiMUS]

Nothing you said has anything to do with your question.
And nothing you said in this post negates anything i have said.
I have no idea what you trying to get at but,the short answer i guess i should of gave you from the start is no.
Nothing transfers over from rinne tesenei.

I was just expanding my answer to your question for those reading the thread so i did not have to repeat myself.

Ok, see this is what I wanted a direct answer. Sorry, if I went off topic in my last answer, but seeing how we won't find out whether anything was transfered via the rinne tensei until next chapter, its impossible to say whether there was or wasn't. Still, if utilizing the rinne tensei did perform a transfer it would be on this occasion. This transfer is from one user of the Mazo to another. Not only that, but part of Obito's body is Madara bcuz of black zetsu. The Mazo is linked to the Rinnengan so if there was only one user who is synced with the Mazo then that user would inherit the Mazo's accumulated power especially since Obito and Madara themselves are linked

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Ok, see this is what I wanted a direct answer. Sorry, if I went off topic in my last answer, but seeing how we won't find out whether anything was transfered via the rinne tensei until next chapter, its impossible to say whether there was or wasn't. Still, if utilizing the rinne tensei did perform a transfer it would be on this occasion. This transfer is from one user of the Mazo to another. Not only that, but part of Obito's body is Madara bcuz of black zetsu. The Mazo is linked to the Rinnengan so if there was only one user who is synced with the Mazo then that user would inherit the Mazo's accumulated power especially since Obito and Madara themselves are linked

They are linked through his will that is true,but at this point there is nothing to gain from obito.
And a connection through will alone doesn't mean that there is actual transfer ability inherent to the connection.

You must remember that this is rough translation of the manga on this site.
Not an actual word for word of what kishi had intended.

 

[ANiMUS]

They are linked through his will that is true,but at this point there is nothing to gain from obito.
And a connection through will alone doesn't mean that there is actual transfer ability inherent to the connection.

You must remember that this is rough translation of the manga on this site.
Not an actual word for word of what kishi had intended.

Well there is ownership of the Shinjuu itself, the shijuu is the host to God itself and possibly the new form of the Mazo. As shown b4 the shinjuu is more than capable of moving without the bijuu. Madara would gain the ability to utilize the shunjuu and the life force or chakra left over (shijuu didn't revert to mazo so the shijuu could have already accumulated its own chakra) Not sure what good this would do, but Madara just becoming alive can't be the end of his plan. I mean look at all he is up against.

 

[ANiMUS]

Oh yeah, and seeing how Madara's will deals with in'youton just like the sword of creation it might have more uses than we know.