[VS] 3rd Raikage Vs Gai Sensei

[Haizaki]

No, again, that makes no sense. Blowing on flame only causes it to vanish because it was put out. Amaterasu can't be put out unless you are the caster. That is a fact. Repelling it will only repel it. It won't vanish so Gai accomplishes nothing here. Why are you trying to argue this? Especially when your only evidence is a scan of Nagato blowing Amaterasu away, not putting it out.

:lol Nagato repelling it didn't reduce the flame. That's impossible as the flame cannot be put out. Nagato repelling it simply blew it away. Nothing more.

You're definitely right on this one. What I said didn't make sense once I saw that scan again.

It being taxing isn't the issue. Gai leaving himself wide open for Sasuke's attacks is the issue here. If he gets hit Sasuke simply keeps his focus on Gai's body thus blowing away Amaterasu doesn't help as he'll just be producing more right on top of it. Him having to drop Susanoo first is irrelevant because Gai will be dead or unable to fight once he gets hit.

Gai would be in the Air while the Katon comes in and he'll have the gates opened already. While he's trying to stop it, Sasuke view would be blocked by the Katon which goes towards Gai's direction. If it doesn't then:

- Gai easily notices Amaterasu. His ability to notice attacks from his blindspot is pretty good

You must be registered for see links

let alone one he can already anticipate coming his way at any point in time.

- Sasuke eyes bleed which Gai can take note of while he attacks. Attacking a linear attack won't change his eyes being on Sasuke which would bleed before Amaterasu.

- Sasuke may not even get the opportunity as Gai rushes to mid air which takes about a second or so

You must be registered for see links

, that ends up bad since Gai can time the hand seal and release of the fire dragon and then proceed to use AT as soon as the gap opens.

- V4 with large Katons and then Amaterasu following up makes me doubt Sasuke would be using Amaterasu continuously on Gai. He'll stop after the first shot probably once the strain kicks in as Obito stated V2 with Amaterasu wears him out as it was shown. Not to mention once it starts, Gai can completely dodge and keep moving and then blow it off once Sasuke get down only for a follow up AT coming his way.

@bold: Uh, no. When Gai opens the 7th Gate as we've seen he has to be still and then that sweat/energy is released like it was against Kisame and Madara. That's a second or two of vulnerability. It doesn't take a second or two to use Amaterasu.

Nope. Gai being still while using the 6th

You must be registered for see links

. Gai moves while opening the 6th

You must be registered for see links

. Lee was standing still while opening the 3rd to 4th but opens the 5th while moving during Hidden Lotus. Matter of fact, Gai opening it while moving in mid air

You must be registered for see links

..Gai opening it less than a second

You must be registered for see links

Against Madara, he opened it and used AT before Madara could complete a sword stab. Sasuke bleeds from his eyes before Amaterasu is released which hints Gai as Danzo could raise his hand to defend him self when he saw the blood

You must be registered for see links

, the next scan shows that.

But the whole blowing Amaterasu away strategy is terrible in the first place as it only relocates the flame, and you have him opening and reopening the gates multiple times to counter a flame that Sasuke can easily create.

I'll drop that point entirely.

Asakujaku doesn't "counter" the Magatama. The Magatama are to create flame to heat up the atmosphere. Gai hitting them with more fire doesn't put them out so the heat will still rise to the atmosphere and Sasuke will still get closer and closer to prepping Kirin.

Ok.

Yeah, in Base after he had just wasted a massive amount of his chakra on Orochimaru's Oral Rebirth Jutsu. This point doesn't help your argument solely because of that fact.

So Oral rebirth would take that much from him? That asides Fire ball Jutsu was the only significant Jutsus used before the Fire dragon. He only countered Genjutsu. Sasuke had access to the cursed seal while he used Oral rebirth which means he used it while his chakra levels were increased. Then he opted to use it again once he returned to base in order to use the Fire style. If Sasuke had the chakra boost while using Oral rebirth and that Fire style wasn't as significant, he could have just done it in base but he increased again.

If you want to keep on claiming his V4 might drop I suggest you start bringing more evidence than him using moves that cost a lot of chakra. The only combination of technique that has ever caused Sasuke to drop an entire level when it comes to Susanoo is Amaterasu. An MS technique that consumes far more power than an ordinary Katon.

"Feats" of Sasuke not using V4 Susanoo not being in the Manga obviously doesn't help your argument since the only reason he failed to maintain had nothing to do with chakra.

Especially since "large" is an extremely vague, extremely broad term.

That Katon Sasuke used isn't as ordinary as you make it seem even though it's inferior to Amaterasu. Large is a broad term but I already showed how he had to increase level just for this when he could have used in his base if it was just a normal Katon that takes normal amounts. Especially when he came off CM2 after just using this which shows it was needed. Amaterasu and he came off only after using V2...V4 is another level. Levels above V2. I'm not suggesting he can't hold it up but once he throws 3 of those Katons like he did which take large amount. Then I see V4 most likely dropping even if he can turn it back.

Why? Because Oral Rebirth might have taken a lot of chakra despite being used just once but with increased levels. Sasuke with increased level also used 3 Katon and fell to his knees further coming off CM2. In this fight, Sasuke doesn't have increased level of chakra. Susano'o consumes chakra. I can say a large amount especially when it comes to techniques like V4 since it's actively eating Sasuke's chakra. Add it up with these Katons then yes, I believe it would drop at least a little right after this even if he can put it back on because he's using a large amount of chakra for 3 of the same techniques while also consuming a good amount of chakra with V4.

Gai doesn't have Sharingan. Seeing Sasuke's hand signs doesn't let him know what jutsu he's about to use so that argument definitely doesn't work. Especially since it takes one hand sign. No gap in Susanoo will be opened long enough for Gai to damage Sasuke on it so there's no point even trying to go down that route.

You must be registered for see links

Yes he doesn't have the Sharingan but with intel, he can use the hand signs to tell what style of jutsu regardless of his eyes. If little kids can do so without the Sharingan, Gai easily does so and quickly reacts. Sasuke uses the same exact hand sign there. The tiger seal and it took a good 2-3 panels to deploy with Zetsu being able to notice it before it was released as he saw the seal.

If he's on mid air already, easier. If he's not, then he jumps up like this instantly

You must be registered for see links

and then fire off Hirudora once the gap opens. There's no way he misses it as Sasuke's jutsu or release of the jutsu won't be as fast as Gai in this case so Gai targets the opening for this Jutsu and fires of Hirudoara which he could do before Madara could complete a stab despite Gai initiating the Jutsu with Madara's sword being in motion.

As for the rest..... That scan shows Sasuke jumping off B's shoulder to dodge. You can't maneuver in mid air at high enough speeds to perform dodges like that unless you can fly, and there is no way in hell Gai is going to be in mid air with no foothold and generate enough momentum and speed to dodge Amaterasu. Not a chance. He gets fried if he tries this.

You must be registered for see links

Naruto was in mid air and and he wasn't moving once the shurikens were fired at him. Yet he was able to dodge with one noticing his speed greatly increased despite them being on land before.

The Curse Seal takes his chakra and replaces it with Orochimaru's chakra. In the long run it drains more power than it uses which is why Sasuke was wary of using it back in Part 1. Take that away and he's left with more chakra to utilize

Grants him significant chakra boost compared to his normal state

You must be registered for see links

and in part 1 when he first used the CM2, he couldn't maintain for long as it corroded his body which was why he resorted to Chidori as soon as he unleashed it (Stated in the bottom

You must be registered for see links

) and that was because he didn't have control over it

You must be registered for see links

. In part 2, he fully mastered it

You must be registered for see links

eliminating all of that which grants him increase chakra.

 

[KidGamer65]

You're definitely right on this one. What I said didn't make sense once I saw that scan again.

Aight, that's good.

Gai would be in the Air while the Katon comes in and he'll have the gates opened already. While he's trying to stop it, Sasuke view would be blocked by the Katon which goes towards Gai's direction. If it doesn't then:

No. Katon is fired first, then Gai goes to stop it. Why would Sasuke be unable to see Gai when Gai is coming from the side of the Katon to take it out? Even if you are saying he'll jump above it and then fire downwards to take it out, after he takes it out Sasuke takes him out with Amaterasu because Gai will still be suspended in mid air.

But let's say Gai is in mid air before Sasuke has attacked, then why in the world would Sasuke bother with Katon? He'd just use Amaterasu since Gai can't dodge in mid air. Or he'll fire the Katon in another direction completely. Or he'll just do nothing.

- Gai easily notices Amaterasu. His ability to notice attacks from his blindspot is pretty good

You must be registered for see links

let alone one he can already anticipate coming his way at any point in time.

Noticing a Taijutsu attack=/=Noticing a projectile that literally spawns out of thin air at your blind spot, so this comparison doesn't make sense at all. And that's also ignoring the fact that Amaterasu would spawn on him, so the moment he notices it is the moment he gets lit up. So yeah, this definitely doesn't work.

- Sasuke eyes bleed which Gai can take note of while he attacks. Attacking a linear attack won't change his eyes being on Sasuke which would bleed before Amaterasu.

If he's taking out Katon he won't be looking at Sasuke's direction let alone looking at him closely enough to notice he's bleeding. Bold also makes no sense. Katon will be going up, Sasuke is down. Gai will be looking at and facing Katon if he's in the air taking it out. He won't be looking down at Sasuke and even if he was it doesn't matter because he can't dodge in mid air.

- Sasuke may not even get the opportunity as Gai rushes to mid air which takes about a second or so

You must be registered for see links

, that ends up bad since Gai can time the hand seal and release of the fire dragon and then proceed to use AT as soon as the gap opens.

Gai literally has zero reason to jump in mid air in position to counter Katon when he doesn't know it's coming, so why in the world would he jump in the air, await the hand seal and release of the Katon and then use Hirudora? The only time Gai will make his move is when he sees the Katon. Not a moment before.

But like I said above, if Gai jumps in mid air before Sasuke has used Katon then Sasuke has no reason to fire straight at him. He can fire in another direction or he can use Amaterasu or he can just do nothing at all.

- V4 with large Katons and then Amaterasu following up makes me doubt Sasuke would be using Amaterasu continuously on Gai. He'll stop after the first shot probably once the strain kicks in as Obito stated V2 with Amaterasu wears him out as it was shown. Not to mention once it starts, Gai can completely dodge and keep moving and then blow it off once Sasuke get down only for a follow up AT coming his way.

If Susanoo is up, which it won't be because he can just put it down. So this point isn't correct either. Susanoo and Katon at the same time won't cause Susanoo to drop. Susanoo and Amaterasu will, but Sasuke doesn't need to use that at the same time.

Am I supposed to take the bold seriously? Gai isn't going to be moving around doing anything let alone at top speed with Amaterasu's flame melting all of his upper body and face.

Nope. Gai being still while using the 6th

You must be registered for see links

. Gai moves while opening the 6th

You must be registered for see links

. Lee was standing still while opening the 3rd to 4th but opens the 5th while moving during Hidden Lotus. Matter of fact, Gai opening it while moving in mid air

You must be registered for see links

..Gai opening it less than a second

You must be registered for see links

Against Madara, he opened it and used AT before Madara could complete a sword stab. Sasuke bleeds from his eyes before Amaterasu is released which hints Gai as Danzo could raise his hand to defend him self when he saw the blood

You must be registered for see links

, the next scan shows that.

Alright.

So Oral rebirth would take that much from him? That asides Fire ball Jutsu was the only significant Jutsus used before the Fire dragon. He only countered Genjutsu. Sasuke had access to the cursed seal while he used Oral rebirth which means he used it while his chakra levels were increased. Then he opted to use it again once he returned to base in order to use the Fire style. If Sasuke had the chakra boost while using Oral rebirth and that Fire style wasn't as significant, he could have just done it in base but he increased again.

Sasuke wasn't showing any signs of being low on chakra until he used Oral Rebirth, which was stated to take a massive amount of chakra while no such thing was stated during that chapter for his Katon. So it's obvious that Oral Rebirth is far more taxing. Not sure what the bold is supposed to prove here. The main point I'm making though is that saying it's taxing because Sasuke needed his own reserves+Curse Mark's reserves makes no sense when Sasuke himself was running low on chakra.

And that last sentence makes no sense at all. How does anything you stated lead to the conclusion that he'd be able to do it in Base? All you've proven here is that a Sasuke low on chakra needs the curse mark in order to fire off the Katon he did against Itachi.

That Katon Sasuke used isn't as ordinary as you make it seem even though it's inferior to Amaterasu. Large is a broad term but I already showed how he had to increase level just for this when he could have used in his base if it was just a normal Katon that takes normal amounts. Especially when he came off CM2 after just using this which shows it was needed. Amaterasu and he came off only after using V2...V4 is another level. Levels above V2. I'm not suggesting he can't hold it up but once he throws 3 of those Katons like he did which take large amount. Then I see V4 most likely dropping even if he can turn it back.

The fact it's nowhere near as straining as Amaterasu is why your point doesn't have ground to stand on. Then there's the fact that an almost out of chakra Sasuke=/=A fresh Sasuke.

Why? Because Oral Rebirth might have taken a lot of chakra despite being used just once but with increased levels. Sasuke with increased level also used 3 Katon and fell to his knees further coming off CM2. In this fight, Sasuke doesn't have increased level of chakra. Susano'o consumes chakra. I can say a large amount especially when it comes to techniques like V4 since it's actively eating Sasuke's chakra. Add it up with these Katons then yes, I believe it would drop at least a little right after this even if he can put it back on because he's using a large amount of chakra for 3 of the same techniques while also consuming a good amount of chakra with V4.

Lol. Itachi w/ an illness and on his deathbed can pull out a V4 Susanoo for a few minutes after using Tsukuyomi and having it broken, after using Amaterasu multiple times and regular Genjutsu along with clones. Unless you are going to tell me that Sick Itachi after spamming his MS is comparable in stamina to a fresh Sasuke you can stop arguing that Katon and a single Amaterasu will leave Sasuke unable to maintain v4.

Spoiler

Sasuke had a portion of his chakra relocated to force Orochimaru back. That's chakra he can't freely use, and that's why when he tried to use it Orochimaru broke free. Stated by Zetsu. So you comparing to Hebi Sasuke is a weak point to make

You must be registered for see links

The only technique combination that has ever caused Susanoo to outright drop is Amaterasu and Susanoo. That's a fact. Your comparison isn't even the same as this. Sasuke's Susanoo dropped because of the strain put on his eyes from using Amaterasu and Susanoo at the same exact time. Unrelated to chakra and unrelated to a battle where Sasuke won't be using Amaterasu and Susanoo at the same time, only Susanoo and regular Katon. So unless you can prove Katon+Susanoo will put the same amount of strain on Sasuke's eyes and chakra as Amaterasu and Susanoo at the same time you don't have a point here.

If Susanoo dropped because of the amount of chakra used up in total and not the fact that Sasuke tried to use Amaterasu and Susanoo at the same time then Sasuke wouldn't have been able to continue using V2 and V3 Susanoo after that along with other jutsu such as Katon and Chidori.

You must be registered for see links

Yes he doesn't have the Sharingan but with intel, he can use the hand signs to tell what style of jutsu regardless of his eyes. If little kids can do so without the Sharingan, Gai easily does so and quickly reacts. Sasuke uses the same exact hand sign there. The tiger seal and it took a good 2-3 panels to deploy with Zetsu being able to notice it before it was released as he saw the seal.

Gai knowing that Sasuke is going to use a fire jutsu=/=Gai knowing that Sasuke is about to use the Katon to set up Kirin. This point is a reach. Gai having intel on Sasuke's abilities doesn't mean he knows what exactly Sasuke will do with his Katon before Sasuke has bothered to do it.

And while I'm at it:

You must be registered for see links

If the user wants solid objects can pass through their Susanoo. No gap needed to be opened here so no gap will need to be opened when Sasuke uses Katon. Gai isn't going to be able to exploit a thing here.

If he's on mid air already, easier. If he's not, then he jumps up like this instantly

You must be registered for see links

and then fire off Hirudora once the gap opens. There's no way he misses it as Sasuke's jutsu or release of the jutsu won't be as fast as Gai in this case so Gai targets the opening for this Jutsu and fires of Hirudoara which he could do before Madara could complete a stab despite Gai initiating the Jutsu with Madara's sword being in motion.

If he's in mid air he gets burnt to death as he'll be defenseless against Amaterasu. If Gai jumps in mid air before Sasuke has acted then Sasuke has no reason to fire a Katon at him. This plan has way too many holes in it so you might as well just drop it instead of dragging this on. If Gai even fired Hirudora at Sasuke he'd just get caught in the explosion.

You must be registered for see links

Naruto was in mid air and and he wasn't moving once the shurikens were fired at him. Yet he was able to dodge with one noticing his speed greatly increased despite them being on land before.

:|

He clearly bounced off that wall behind him. You can't maneuver like that in mid air unless you can fly. That's a fact.

Grants him significant chakra boost compared to his normal state

You must be registered for see links

and in part 1 when he first used the CM2, he couldn't maintain for long as it corroded his body which was why he resorted to Chidori as soon as he unleashed it (Stated in the bottom

You must be registered for see links

) and that was because he didn't have control over it

You must be registered for see links

. In part 2, he fully mastered it

You must be registered for see links

eliminating all of that which grants him increase chakra.

Ok.

 

[Dawee]

Irrelevant when in this scan we see c0 already near it's climax[

You must be registered for see links

] This happened nearly instant since we can't even see Manda being summoned here yet which means he def took the part of the explosion that was on this page and seeing as the explosion in scan A dwarfs mountains that alone gives it a comfortable power gab over anything a v3 Susanoo has taken.

By that logic, Sasuke wouldn't have even been able to summon manda at all since he hasn't even made a handseal let alone put them on the ground and then genjutsu'd manda and then went into its mouth. By the time all that happens, the bomb would have been at its climax. All we know is that Manda too part of the blast, we have no way of claiming that he took a majority of it. What we do know is that Sasuke didn't summon manda in order to withstand the blast, but rather escape it, so that implies that Manda didn't take a significant portion of the blast. The durability of creatures that are at Manda's level as well as other giant snakes support this.

They are regular kunai until you prove otherwise since everything points to them being regular kunai and not some buffed Bijuu restricting Kunai you claim they are so your the one assuming here which means your the one who has to provide evidence suggesting that those kunai are Bijuu suppressing. Also even more proof that those kunai aren't Bijuu surpressing is the fact that Naruto cannonly used Kurama a bijuu to stop one of them[

You must be registered for see links

]. Tsunade strength behide a blade as big a Gamabunta's shit on Obito spitting objects out via kamui nuff said.

They are SHURIKEN buddy.

But I concede that point since naruto could grab them without getting suppressed. Where was it stated or implied that Tsunade's strength was required to shove the blade through manda's mouth? If the blade went right through manda, then there's no way of claiming a lower limit to his durability based on that, only an upper.

Actually there pierced Hachibi's hand [

You must be registered for see links

] How do i know they pierced his hand? Because they were stuck in place on his hand if he was so durable they would have bounced right off. Actually they did do something we can clearly see him saying ouch.

But if his hand was as durable as his tails, they would have done far more damage since the shuriken that hit his tails cut right through and keep on going, yet the flaming shuriken only penetrate enough to stick. That right there is proof of how durable the hand is compared to the tail, if their durability was the same, the flaming shurikens would have went much deeper.

This proves my point exactly. You said if Naruto were in his tails when the Juubi lazer hit he would have been dead right. If the Juubi lazer hit BM Head were Naruto was located as well he would have been dead also which completely debunks your whole argument on why the tails are weaker than the body claim.

How in the world does that prove anything on your part? Naruto dies if he gets hit in the head by the juubi laser regardless if the tails are equal or less durable than the head since the laser has to destroy far less chakra if it hits the head if naruto is located there than what it did to the tails. So either way, whether it be the head is more or equally durable, the same result would happen.

This has nothing to do with anything.

You made the claim that Naruto's RSM tails could stop Sasuke's PS blades to hype the tails and used a BSM feat to dehype the head. That's post was clearly there to show why that's fallacious logic.

Like i said surrpressing Bijuu power doesn't give the stakes any advantage in terms of piercing force plus the stakes the pierced his back didn't even have the surrpressing chains on them. The fact that Manda withstood c0 for any amount of time automatically shits on a v3 Susanoo and i've even proved that Manda was inside c0 nearing it's climax since him using c0 on Sasuke and c0 towering over mountains were all done in one Manga scan.

Why wouldn't they have an advantage? If they suppress the bijuu's power, then durability would be suppressed as well. I don't see how Manda withstanding C0 at any amount of time would mean it beast V3 susanoo, plus manda's ability to withstand C0 is based on both its durability and size advantage over V3.

Nope Manda isn't supposed to be equal to all of them and i think that is painfully obvious since Katsuya and Gamabunta worked together and they had the help of Jiraiya and Tsunade. Also you keep mentioning Manda being just a summonings is irrelevant when his durability feats already puts him above c0. Manda still tanked some of the blast that scan does not debunk what i said above at all.

The three way deadlock means that they are suppose to be equal. Did Manda win or lose in that fight? He lost, which is expected when it's a 2 vs 1 fight among equals. Jiraiya and Tsunade helped just like Oro and Kabuto helped. And sure, there is a possibility that Manda is above Katsuya and Bunta, but for what you are claiming to be true, it would have to be TIERS above, as in it's stronger than most of the tailed beasts which everything we know about Manda's power goes against.

Finally, again you have zero answers for the glaring absence of any durability hype for Manda when he absolutely would have that if his durability is way beyond an MS absolute defense that appears in the middle of Pt2.

 

[Haizaki]

No. Katon is fired first, then Gai goes to stop it. Why would Sasuke be unable to see Gai when Gai is coming from the side of the Katon to take it out? Even if you are saying he'll jump above it and then fire downwards to take it out, after he takes it out Sasuke takes him out with Amaterasu because Gai will still be suspended in mid air.

1. I'm saying he'll jump above it and fire downwards. This is the thing I really want to understand. Gai here was in mid air(

You must be registered for see links

) but then he pushed up again at high speed in the bottom left "SFX: Flicker"

You must be registered for see links

after Neji and Lee's words. The thing is, this can happen if Sasuke tries to hit Gai with Amaterasu. I don't see why he can't just move upwards and evade if this is the case as he can actually react to it. If he can move like that with high speed, why can't he move the exact same way upwards avoiding it? Especially as he can bypass Sasuke's eyes in the 7th.

2. Sasuke's eye bleeds before this, Gai's being able to see with his reactions can act quickly. Gai would then block his LOS and cover himself with this

You must be registered for see links

. Gai doesn't need a hand sign but that's big enough to cover Gai as he comes and then he uses Hirudora while Sasuke would have dropped Susano'o.

3. Sasuke would be busy firing upwards so for him to notice Gai going from the side and then using Amaterasu would be unrealistic because Gai would be acting as soon as he sees the fire coming or even the hand seal. Though let's just assume a scenario whereby Sasuke throws it up, he'll have to prepare Amaterasu and then fire. Gai at this point would be in motion as I've shown how quick he is to get above. Sasuke would have just finished because Gai isn't going to wait for Sasuke to finish firing before he goes upwards. Even the likes of Zetsu could notice before it was released

You must be registered for see links

, even if Gai does then he'll be in the 7th Gate which means Sasuke's eyes can't follow Gai moving as he failed to follow V2 Ay moving(Proved this in the past) Gai would be in motion and for Sasuke to build up chakra in his eyes right after in order to fire at Gai won't be happening.

But let's say Gai is in mid air before Sasuke has attacked, then why in the world would Sasuke bother with Katon? He'd just use Amaterasu since Gai can't dodge in mid air. Or he'll fire the Katon in another direction completely. Or he'll just do nothing.

And he'll die but I'm mostly referring to the fact that Gai gets high up facing the Katon downwards. Not being in mid air before Sasuke attacks. There's no point in that (since Sasuke can decide not to use the Katon again). The Katon won't be fast to get above before Gai does. Let's say Sasuke now opts to fire it towards a different direction if Gai is even above before the attacks, Gai just needs to jump nearer to directly above Sasuke(Not entirely above but not too far from directly above). This way once Sasuke tries to fire upwards any direction, Asakujaku would cover all directions considering the range and it would intercept the attack. Not banking on this because I don't see a situation where Gai would be above before he decides to attack.

- If Sasuke fires at another direction, Gai has the upper hand as he can just fire towards that direction and then still intercept the fire dragon. Asakujaku is fast and won't take time as Gai has already released it while Sauske completes his attack.

Noticing a Taijutsu attack=/=Noticing a projectile that literally spawns out of thin air at your blind spot, so this comparison doesn't make sense at all. And that's also ignoring the fact that Amaterasu would spawn on him, so the moment he notices it is the moment he gets lit up. So yeah, this definitely doesn't work.

Ok.

If he's taking out Katon he won't be looking at Sasuke's direction let alone looking at him closely enough to notice he's bleeding. Bold also makes no sense. Katon will be going up, Sasuke is down. Gai will be looking at and facing Katon if he's in the air taking it out. He won't be looking down at Sasuke and even if he was it doesn't matter because he can't dodge in mid air.

I'm saying Gai would be jumping above and firing at Katon downwards. Plus in any other scenario, Gai would have jumped up, used Asakujaku which takes no time due to his striking speed and then is left to counter freely.

Eyes can be seen from a distance closely

You must be registered for see links

or even blood dripping down can be seen which isn't an issue. Gai doesn't just look at his eyes but at his face and seeing the blood drip shouldn't be an issue. At least eye balls could meet from sush a distance

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

He's not going to be using Genjutsu randomly as he'll only cast it once the user is looking at his eyes. Oh and this is in reference to Gai attacking already and not attacking while looking because he'll have thrown Asakujaku early enough. Not that this matter since Gai would be in a scenario where Sasuke would only be able to attack after the Katon has be taking out as he'll be above the Katon facing it downwards.

Not to mention, won't Asakujak block Sasuke's AOE? Gai is above the Katon coming from Sasuke's direction and he'll be firing Asakujaku which covers his frontal area as shown in that Kisame scan. This isn't the issue since he'll be above and Katon would be covering him so the only way for Sasuke is too attack with Amaterasu when the Katon is done.

Gai literally has zero reason to jump in mid air in position to counter Katon when he doesn't know it's coming, so why in the world would he jump in the air, await the hand seal and release of the Katon and then use Hirudora? The only time Gai will make his move is when he sees the Katon. Not a moment before.

When he sees the hand seal. I'll explain below. That gives him a boost and Gai is much faster that that Katon so he'll get to the Air and counter.

But like I said above, if Gai jumps in mid air before Sasuke has used Katon then Sasuke has no reason to fire straight at him. He can fire in another direction or he can use Amaterasu or he can just do nothing at all.

He won't jump before. Defintely not before the seal because he won't know.

Gai knowing that Sasuke is going to use a fire jutsu=/=Gai knowing that Sasuke is about to use the Katon to set up Kirin. This point is a reach. Gai having intel on Sasuke's abilities doesn't mean he knows what exactly Sasuke will do with his Katon before Sasuke has bothered to do it.

Lol Gai knows for a fact that Sasuke isn't foolish to attack him with something he can dodge with ease. Gai knows what Jutsu he's going to pull. Check it, this is the only Fire style Jutsu(Or even his entire Jutsu :lol) that begins with a Tiger seal. The others begins with either a rat or snake seal and end with a tiger. You can look it up. This gives Gai the edge and he'll act on it since Sasuke beginning with a Tiger seal hints at this coming without a doubt and there's only one place it would be going. Lol Sasuke obviously isn't firing this at Gai, even Gai knows that so he'll take the step quicker.

And while I'm at it:

You must be registered for see links

If the user wants solid objects can pass through their Susanoo. No gap needed to be opened here so no gap will need to be opened when Sasuke uses Katon. Gai isn't going to be able to exploit a thing here.

That's Susano'o holding Sakura and putting her inside. It was holding Sakura in the previous panel and then you can see its hand on its head in the panel where it's then putting Sakura in it. Though that's the inside. I disagree with that a gap won't be open. This scan shows what I'm talking about...you can see the opening here when he's brought out

You must be registered for see links

But here's something to think about..if there's no gap opening but the fire dragon can pass through, then Gai would aim fast to shoot hiruodra during the period of the Katon coming out of it. During the point where it's allowing solid objects to pass through, Gai can exploit this and pass his own through.

- Gai can see a tiger seal, He's in mid air already as he'll quickly act after seeing this and as Sasuke throws this out, Gai execution of Hirudora is far far faster and the jutsu itself is incredibly fast. Gai just needs to jump above Susano'o. Not too high enough and shoot Hirudora during this period as the Jutsu would go directly to where the fire dragon is coming out from. I don't see what would stop this at all from happening and allow it to bypass Susano'o. Gai definitely gets the first one and there are two more to come anyways but the main thing is Gai timing their coming out and equally having his attacking go in as they clash during that period with AT being able to get through Susano'o.

- Susano'o is allowing solid objects pass through, this should apply to the whole body of Susano'o leaving it as a whole vulnerable. What suggests that some parts can be solid while others won't be solid during the object coming in or out?

If he's in mid air he gets burnt to death as he'll be defenseless against Amaterasu. If Gai jumps in mid air before Sasuke has acted then Sasuke has no reason to fire a Katon at him. This plan has way too many holes in it so you might as well just drop it instead of dragging this on. If Gai even fired Hirudora at Sasuke he'd just get caught in the explosion.

Ok..I gave a new case.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Do you even know what your debating for? I don't think you do.

By that logic, Sasuke wouldn't have even been able to summon manda at all since he hasn't even made a handseal let alone put them on the ground and then genjutsu'd manda and then went into its mouth. By the time all that happens, the bomb would have been at its climax. All we know is that Manda too part of the blast, we have no way of claiming that he took a majority of it. What we do know is that Sasuke didn't summon manda in order to withstand the blast, but rather escape it, so that implies that Manda didn't take a significant portion of the blast. The durability of creatures that are at Manda's level as well as other giant snakes support this.

But he did and it's cannon that he did so saying that is completely irrelevant. Like i said before that explosion reached the sky within secs which mean Manda was inside during that time which adds to his durability buddy. Never said he took Majority of it he just took what was shown on that first page which is enough to know that Manda is more durable than a v3 Susanoo. Bold means absolutely nothing. What other giant Snakes durability has been shown? to disclaim these things about Manda?

But I concede that point since naruto could grab them without getting suppressed. Where was it stated or implied that Tsunade's strength was required to shove the blade through manda's mouth? If the blade went right through manda, then there's no way of claiming a lower limit to his durability based on that, only an upper.

It's about time you concede. Never said that Tsunade strength was absolutely needed.

But if his hand was as durable as his tails, they would have done far more damage since the shuriken that hit his tails cut right through and keep on going, yet the flaming shuriken only penetrate enough to stick. That right there is proof of how durable the hand is compared to the tail, if their durability was the same, the flaming shurikens would have went much deeper.

No they would not have did much more damage due to their size and the lack of momentum they had before they hit him. If Obito shot those shurikens at his hand they would have chopped them right off.

How in the world does that prove anything on your part? Naruto dies if he gets hit in the head by the juubi laser regardless if the tails are equal or less durable than the head since the laser has to destroy far less chakra if it hits the head if naruto is located there than what it did to the tails. So either way, whether it be the head is more or equally durable, the same result would happen.

Nothing suggest that the tails are weaker than the body unless you can provide evidence of this you should throw this argument away.

You made the claim that Naruto's RSM tails could stop Sasuke's PS blades to hype the tails and used a BSM feat to dehype the head. That's post was clearly there to show why that's fallacious logic.

I was not comparing the tails in that manner i was basically saying that when Kurama is faced up against a strong attack his uses his tails not his arms to block the attack and why would he do that if his tails were really weaker than his body that what i was getting at when i mentioned RSM Naruto.

Why wouldn't they have an advantage? If they suppress the bijuu's power, then durability would be suppressed as well. I don't see how Manda withstanding C0 at any amount of time would mean it beast V3 susanoo, plus manda's ability to withstand C0 is based on both its durability and size advantage over V3.

The Stakes that pierced his back didn't have the bijuu suppressing chains on them so throw this terrible claim out the window. You just admitted Manda durability was the reason he survived c0 so how can you dare say he isn't more durable than a v3 Susanoo which failed against Kirin.

The three way deadlock means that they are suppose to be equal. Did Manda win or lose in that fight? He lost, which is expected when it's a 2 vs 1 fight among equals. Jiraiya and Tsunade helped just like Oro and Kabuto helped. And sure, there is a possibility that Manda is above Katsuya and Bunta, but for what you are claiming to be true, it would have to be TIERS above, as in it's stronger than most of the tailed beasts which everything we know about Manda's power goes against.

Yet the Manga made it clear that Manda was much stronger than Gamabunta considering it would have ate Gamabunta within the first 15sec of their fight[

You must be registered for see links

] Ofc he lost he was against 2 Sannin plus Gamabunta and Katsuya. Orochimaru didn't join the battle till Manda was already defeated so saying he had his aid is irrelevant.

Finally, again you have zero answers for the glaring absence of any durability hype for Manda when he absolutely would have that if his durability is way beyond an MS absolute defense that appears in the middle of Pt2.

Feats>Hype nuff said.

 

[KidGamer65]

1. I'm saying he'll jump above it and fire downwards. This is the thing I really want to understand. Gai here was in mid air(

You must be registered for see links

) but then he pushed up again at high speed in the bottom left "SFX: Flicker"

You must be registered for see links

after Neji and Lee's words. The thing is, this can happen if Sasuke tries to hit Gai with Amaterasu. I don't see why he can't just move upwards and evade if this is the case as he can actually react to it. If he can move like that with high speed, why can't he move the exact same way upwards avoiding it? Especially as he can bypass Sasuke's eyes in the 7th.

No, that scan doesn't show Gai moving in mid air, again that's absolutely impossible so you need to stop arguing that it is. There is a reason why Gai's ability to run on air in the 8th Gate was highlighted. Ninja can't maneuver in mid air like that unless they are 8G Gai or can fly.

That scan shows Gai jumping in front of Kisame, kicking him upwards, then hitting him with Asa Kujaku. SFX Flicker is an irrelevant SFX to bring up because that doesn't mean that Gai changed his position. That shows that Gai moved, which he did. He moved his head and upper body and then used Asa Kujaku.

And even if I were to agree that Gai can move in mid air even though it's fact that he and anyone else without a special set of abilities cannot, you have zero proof that he can move as fast as he does on the ground. Makes no sense to continue arguing this point because it's ridiculous. I shouldn't have to make 3 posts on why Gai can't dodge Amaterasu in mid air. :lol That's nonsense.

2. Sasuke's eye bleeds before this, Gai's being able to see with his reactions can act quickly. Gai would then block his LOS and cover himself with this

You must be registered for see links

. Gai doesn't need a hand sign but that's big enough to cover Gai as he comes and then he uses Hirudora while Sasuke would have dropped Susano'o.

Sure, he summons the turtle but then it gets hit and then Gai needs to jump off in order to target Sasuke w/ Hirudora. Then Sasuke simply puts Susanoo back up and tanks Hirudora with little damage and Gai is back to square one except he has no summon to save him next time.

3. Sasuke would be busy firing upwards so for him to notice Gai going from the side and then using Amaterasu would be unrealistic because Gai would be acting as soon as he sees the fire coming or even the hand seal. Though let's just assume a scenario whereby Sasuke throws it up, he'll have to prepare Amaterasu and then fire. Gai at this point would be in motion as I've shown how quick he is to get above. Sasuke would have just finished because Gai isn't going to wait for Sasuke to finish firing before he goes upwards. Even the likes of Zetsu could notice before it was released

You must be registered for see links

, even if Gai does then he'll be in the 7th Gate which means Sasuke's eyes can't follow Gai moving as he failed to follow V2 Ay moving(Proved this in the past) Gai would be in motion and for Sasuke to build up chakra in his eyes right after in order to fire at Gai won't be happening.

If Gai is acting when he sees the hand seal then he'll be in his position before Katon is actually used, meaning Sasuke has no reason to continue firing. If Gai is acting after Katon is actually used then no, he won't be doing anything to Gai beforehand but that won't matter because the fire is already out before Gai has reached his position. Gai will be focused on taking out the fire then Sasuke simply puts Susanoo back up.

And he'll die but I'm mostly referring to the fact that Gai gets high up facing the Katon downwards. Not being in mid air before Sasuke attacks. There's no point in that (since Sasuke can decide not to use the Katon again). The Katon won't be fast to get above before Gai does. Let's say Sasuke now opts to fire it towards a different direction if Gai is even above before the attacks, Gai just needs to jump nearer to directly above Sasuke(Not entirely above but not too far from directly above). This way once Sasuke tries to fire upwards any direction, Asakujaku would cover all directions considering the range and it would intercept the attack. Not banking on this because I don't see a situation where Gai would be above before he decides to attack.

Then I'll wait to address this.

- If Sasuke fires at another direction, Gai has the upper hand as he can just fire towards that direction and then still intercept the fire dragon. Asakujaku is fast and won't take time as Gai has already released it while Sauske completes his attack.

Asa Kujaku has shown to be massive in terms of width, not length. It's reach isn't impressive. Both times Gai used it his targets were easily less than 5 meters away from him. So if Sasuke fires Katon in a different direction Asa Kujaku fails to reach it entirely.

Eyes can be seen from a distance closely

You must be registered for see links

or even blood dripping down can be seen which isn't an issue. Gai doesn't just look at his eyes but at his face and seeing the blood drip shouldn't be an issue. At least eye balls could meet from sush a distance

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

He's not going to be using Genjutsu randomly as he'll only cast it once the user is looking at his eyes. Oh and this is in reference to Gai attacking already and not attacking while looking because he'll have thrown Asakujaku early enough. Not that this matter since Gai would be in a scenario where Sasuke would only be able to attack after the Katon has be taking out as he'll be above the Katon facing it downwards.

Whether or not he can see his eyes isn't the issue here as stated in my post. The issue is he won't be looking at Sasuke while taking out Katon.

Not to mention, won't Asakujak block Sasuke's AOE? Gai is above the Katon coming from Sasuke's direction and he'll be firing Asakujaku which covers his frontal area as shown in that Kisame scan. This isn't the issue since he'll be above and Katon would be covering him so the only way for Sasuke is too attack with Amaterasu when the Katon is done.

You said he'd be using Hirudora. Regardless, if he uses Asa Kujaku it won't matter because then Susanoo would tank. Or another consecutive Amaterasu where his eye doesn't bleed and the build up for chakra is nonexistent would take him out as he'd still be in the air.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

When he sees the hand seal. I'll explain below. That gives him a boost and Gai is much faster that that Katon so he'll get to the Air and counter.

When he sees the hand seal? Then Sasuke simply doesn't release his jutsu. Or he fires in a different direction since the only way your plan to get through Susanoo works is if Gai is in position to fire before the Katon has actually been fired in the first place.

He won't jump before. Defintely not before the seal because he won't know.

Then he's either jumping when the seal is made or after the jutsu has been used. Either he doesn't make it and Sasuke protects himself with Susanoo or he does make it and Sasuke doesn't attack with Katon and uses Amaterasu instead.

Lol Gai knows for a fact that Sasuke isn't foolish to attack him with something he can dodge with ease. Gai knows what Jutsu he's going to pull. Check it, this is the only Fire style Jutsu(Or even his entire Jutsu :lol) that begins with a Tiger seal. The others begins with either a rat or snake seal and end with a tiger. You can look it up. This gives Gai the edge and he'll act on it since Sasuke beginning with a Tiger seal hints at this coming without a doubt and there's only one place it would be going. Lol Sasuke obviously isn't firing this at Gai, even Gai knows that so he'll take the step quicker.

Intel doesn't mean that Gai knows every single hand sign associated with every single jutsu. Baseless. The best you'll ever be able to argue is that he knows what type of jutsu he's using. Gai knowing that Sasuke isn't planning on hitting him with Katon=/=Gai knowing that Sasuke is going to fire up in the air to prep Kirin despite not knowing where he's firing until after he's done it. For all he know Sasuke can be using it as a feint or a distraction. You the debater knowing all that=/=Gai himself knowing all that so this argument doesn't make sense.


Not to mention Fireball Jutsu can be used with a Tiger Seal at the start. Sasuke not firing at Gai is irrelevant because Gai has no idea where Sasuke will be firing until after he's fired, and the way your plan is set up Gai will be attacking the moment he sees the hand sign.

That's Susano'o holding Sakura and putting her inside. It was holding Sakura in the previous panel and then you can see its hand on its head in the panel where it's then putting Sakura in it. Though that's the inside. I disagree with that a gap won't be open. This scan shows what I'm talking about...you can see the opening here when he's brought out

You must be registered for see links

When the object is passing through an opening is made, when the object has passed through the opening is gone. There is no opening when Madara is pulled. That's just the chakra being pushed aside as he gets pulled out.

But here's something to think about..if there's no gap opening but the fire dragon can pass through, then Gai would aim fast to shoot hiruodra during the period of the Katon coming out of it. During the point where it's allowing solid objects to pass through, Gai can exploit this and pass his own through.

No, he absolutely cannot do that.

1. Hirudora's explosion range is large.
2. He needs to be outside of that range unless he wants to die.
3. The distance Sasuke's Katon needs to travel in order to render himself safe is minuscule in comparison.
4. Zero feat that lets Hirudora travel that distance and then get to Sasuke before Katon gets him when Gai isn't attacking before Sasuke is. Especially when Hirudora's actual speed feats aren't anything amazing. The execution is extremely fast, but that's it.

Only way this becomes feasible is if he's ready to attack before or at the same time Sasuke is ready to attack, but then Sasuke would feint him out and not use Katon. Instead he'd tank Gai's attack or he'd use Amaterasu. I'll say this here and I'll say it below. There is no scenario where what you are saying ever becomes reality.

- Gai can see a tiger seal, He's in mid air already as he'll quickly act after seeing this and as Sasuke throws this out, Gai execution of Hirudora is far far faster and the jutsu itself is incredibly fast. Gai just needs to jump above Susano'o. Not too high enough and shoot Hirudora during this period as the Jutsu would go directly to where the fire dragon is coming out from. I don't see what would stop this at all from happening and allow it to bypass Susano'o. Gai definitely gets the first one and there are two more to come anyways but the main thing is Gai timing their coming out and equally having his attacking go in as they clash during that period with AT being able to get through Susano'o.

If Gai is in mid air and Sasuke hasn't actually used his jutsu yet he has no reason to use his jutsu in the first place. If Gai waits till after it's been used Hirudora isn't going to reach Sasuke and explode before Katon has passed through. Hirudora's execution being faster is irrelevant because he's already at a disadvantage due to the fact that he'll only be able to act after Sasuke has made his hand sign. Especially since he himself needs to be out of range otherwise he'll get killed by the explosion of his own technique. So :lol @ the bold.

Gai attacking when he sees the hand sign results in a fail.
Gai waiting till the jutsu is used results in a fail.

There is no scenario where Hirudora hits Susanoo just as Katon is coming out of the Susanoo. Gai can't predict movements so the earliest he'll be able to move is once he's seen the hand sign for Sasuke's jutsu, meaning he can only move after Sasuke has made all the preparations he needs to make the jutsu. All Sasuke needs to do is release it while Gai needs to Shunshin above Susanoo and then release Asa Kujaku or Hirudora. Then Hirudora needs to travel a distance large enough to protect Gai from the explosion when it hits. While Gai is doing that Katon has already been released. The best you can logically and reasonably argue is that Hirudora hits Katon and then Sasuke tanks with Susanoo, then the defenseless Gai is killed off w/ Amaterasu, an Arrow or Magatama.

Only way a scenario like this ever becomes plausible is if Gai is ready to release Hirudora BEFORE Sasuke has readied his Katon, and a scenario like that gets Gai killed in a matter of moments.

What's Gai going to do every time Sasuke uses a Katon? Bust out Hirudora and Asa Kujaku? :lol. He'll end up wearing himself out letting Sasuke slaughter him without the need for Kirin.

- Susano'o is allowing solid objects pass through, this should apply to the whole body of Susano'o leaving it as a whole vulnerable. What suggests that some parts can be solid while others won't be solid during the object coming in or out?

The scan that explicitly shows only a certain part of Susanoo changing composition to allow solid objects through. What evidence in the Manga would lead you to the conclusion that the entire body would also be solid? None. Bold is you making a claim, then saying "it should apply" without actually proving that it should and then asking for evidence that your claim is false even though you've yet to actually prove it's true.

You must be registered for see links

Oh yes, and Katon can be used through Susanoo. No gap. Sasuke fired his Fireball Jutsu straight through the front of his Susanoo and there is no visible gap or any flaring chakra that'd indicate a gap.

 

[Uchihakil]

3rd raikage FTW

 

[Haizaki]

No, that scan doesn't show Gai moving in mid air, again that's absolutely impossible so you need to stop arguing that it is. There is a reason why Gai's ability to run on air in the 8th Gate was highlighted. Ninja can't maneuver in mid air like that unless they are 8G Gai or can fly.

That scan shows Gai jumping in front of Kisame, kicking him upwards, then hitting him with Asa Kujaku. SFX Flicker is an irrelevant SFX to bring up because that doesn't mean that Gai changed his position. That shows that Gai moved, which he did. He moved his head and upper body and then used Asa Kujaku.

And even if I were to agree that Gai can move in mid air even though it's fact that he and anyone else without a special set of abilities cannot, you have zero proof that he can move as fast as he does on the ground. Makes no sense to continue arguing this point because it's ridiculous. I shouldn't have to make 3 posts on why Gai can't dodge Amaterasu in mid air. :lol That's nonsense.

Did you read or understand what I said? No you didn't understand what I was talking about. Gai as a whole moved upwards entirely. No just his head and upper body :lol You can't possibly argue that...Kisame is sent flying completely upwards which is why Gai uses the body flicker to get to him

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

"He initiates the technique after kicking the opponent into the air" ...If he was on the ground, Kisame would be flying upwards into the air and Gai would be boosting up to meet him, same case here. Kisame is sent flying upwards and Gai reaches with the body flicker. You can even watch it here:

Fast forwards to 1:59 and you'll see exactly what I'm taking about 9https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq8JNZCpeUM9 (remove to 9 in front of the http and the 9 after the last M) . Lol but this is a manga where all kinds of things that can't happen in real life occurs. I can question these things when things like things go against actual real life scenarios lol. I am asking why Gai can't move this same way to counter the technique. I don't see what's wrong with this at all. You say his head or upper body but he's shown moving completely higher. I know what you're saying about moving in the air to dodge or so, but why is this particular case I've shown not possible when he's actually done this. Why? Your post isn't really touching this particular case except stating it't not possible. This is him moving completely to catch Kisame above despite him being in mid air already. I just can't understand this concept right here. It happened.

Sure, he summons the turtle but then it gets hit and then Gai needs to jump off in order to target Sasuke w/ Hirudora. Then Sasuke simply puts Susanoo back up and tanks Hirudora with little damage and Gai is back to square one except he has no summon to save him next time.

Nope..Not especially if Gai keeps a normal distance that's not too far. Gai immediately fires Hirudora along with the summon since it dies anyways. Sasuke doesn't avoid this scenario. Not possible.

If Gai is acting when he sees the hand seal then he'll be in his position before Katon is actually used, meaning Sasuke has no reason to continue firing. If Gai is acting after Katon is actually used then no, he won't be doing anything to Gai beforehand but that won't matter because the fire is already out before Gai has reached his position. Gai will be focused on taking out the fire then Sasuke simply puts Susanoo back up.

Or Gai moves up as Sasuke spits the fire but get there before it since he's much faster, or when Sasuke is about to spit it out.

Asa Kujaku has shown to be massive in terms of width, not length. It's reach isn't impressive. Both times Gai used it his targets were easily less than 5 meters away from him. So if Sasuke fires Katon in a different direction Asa Kujaku fails to reach it entirely.

Ok then the only way this would work is if Gai stay above but not too far from above Susano'o but either way it won't be able to touch him, There are other counters I've dropped.

You said he'd be using Hirudora. Regardless, if he uses Asa Kujaku it won't matter because then Susanoo would tank. Or another consecutive Amaterasu where his eye doesn't bleed and the build up for chakra is nonexistent would take him out as he'd still be in the air.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Confusion sorry. He'll use Hirudora if Susano'o drops.

You're not addressing Sasuke moving before the Jutsu is actually used

You must be registered for see links

look at the bottom left scan. The bleeding must have notified him of course. We know Sasuke can't react to Amaterasu and we know for a fact that Sasuke moved before Itachi opened his eyes fully for the Jutsu. Even when he wasn't to use it again, he closes that eye which is a hint as he did and as Sasuke does before the bleeding occurs.

When he sees the hand seal? Then Sasuke simply doesn't release his jutsu. Or he fires in a different direction since the only way your plan to get through Susanoo works is if Gai is in position to fire before the Katon has actually been fired in the first place.

Then Gai needs to stay close. Susano'o can't touch him because he'll evade the attacks every time as Sasuke would tire out. If Gai is close, then he'll have more time to attack.

Then he's either jumping when the seal is made or after the jutsu has been used. Either he doesn't make it and Sasuke protects himself with Susanoo or he does make it and Sasuke doesn't attack with Katon and uses Amaterasu instead.

I addressed this.

Intel doesn't mean that Gai knows every single hand sign associated with every single jutsu. Baseless. The best you'll ever be able to argue is that he knows what type of jutsu he's using. Gai knowing that Sasuke isn't planning on hitting him with Katon=/=Gai knowing that Sasuke is going to fire up in the air to prep Kirin despite not knowing where he's firing until after he's done it. For all he know Sasuke can be using it as a feint or a distraction. You the debater knowing all that=/=Gai himself knowing all that so this argument doesn't make sense.

Not to mention Fireball Jutsu can be used with a Tiger Seal at the start. Sasuke not firing at Gai is irrelevant because Gai has no idea where Sasuke will be firing until after he's fired, and the way your plan is set up Gai will be attacking the moment he sees the hand sign.

Well, I'm arguing for Gai just like you're arguing for Sasuke. That was in the fanbook where it was mentioned but the users always use Snake to begin before Tiger. However, there's no point since this won't stop Gai. Sasuke can't follow Gai's movements let alone hit him with a Fireball jutsu so Gai doesn't need to bother since he has intel on Sasuke and his techniques. The Range and the use. Gai would go upwards regardless once he sees the sign because the only way a Katon would be coming here would be if he's using Kirin which Gai would be aiming to prevent. That's what I'm stating because Sasuke's can't touch him which Gai knows. Sasuke isn't using Amaterasu on Gai but resorting to a Katon that has a short range and is less effective. This is an easy one for Gai to realize. Not that because I know doesn't mean he'll know or so. There's no reason for him not to.

Another thing is the fact that Sasuke would be facing upwards while trying to use this jutsu..He's not going to be looking at Gai or below especially when he believes he's heavily protected by Version 4 based on his intel. Not to mention, one inhales before he uses Fire Style Jutsus

You must be registered for see links

,

You must be registered for see links

..Applies to Sasuke considering he's also blowing in the SFX which makes sense as it took 3 panels with Zetsu noticing before we were shown

You must be registered for see links

The feint won't work.

When the object is passing through an opening is made, when the object has passed through the opening is gone. There is no opening when Madara is pulled. That's just the chakra being pushed aside as he gets pulled out.

Susano'o itself is the chakra being pushed aside as Madara got pulled out. That's the opening being made at that point which I'm referring to.

No, he absolutely cannot do that.

1. Hirudora's explosion range is large.
2. He needs to be outside of that range unless he wants to die.
3. The distance Sasuke's Katon needs to travel in order to render himself safe is minuscule in comparison.
4. Zero feat that lets Hirudora travel that distance and then get to Sasuke before Katon gets him when Gai isn't attacking before Sasuke is. Especially when Hirudora's actual speed feats aren't anything amazing. The execution is extremely fast, but that's it.

Only way this becomes feasible is if he's ready to attack before or at the same time Sasuke is ready to attack, but then Sasuke would feint him out and not use Katon. Instead he'd tank Gai's attack or he'd use Amaterasu. I'll say this here and I'll say it below. There is no scenario where what you are saying ever becomes reality.

- Gai is nearby Sasuke, close-by and can even get behind Susano'o with his speed. Sasuke's Susano'o can't hit him so Gai doesn't need to worry about being close. Gai would just jump when Sasuke opts to shoot it and he'll be faster by far since Sasuke even has to inhale too or do whatever he did that took 3 panels for it to be released after the sign. When Gai jumps, he can decide not to be far off.

- How far was Gai from Kisame when he set off Hirudora?

You must be registered for see links

, that's not even as further as I imagine against Sasuke. Gai would evade it considering that AOE is even far larger than the one against Madara. Gai being closer than that won't catch him in the AOE. Also it didn't carry Kisame back who was holding his GSB and we still see sharks around him showing Hirudora exploded right there. The distance is credible and Gai would definitely get it while the Katon's coming out if he plays smart.

- The process enables Gai catch up with Hirudora against the Katon coming out. Seal, inhale and Katon comes. In between here, Gai is in the perfect position to release his super fast punch at the right time. Sees the seal or inhale and then he jumps as quick and then releases it.

- Gai stated AT is a punch faster than any other so the speed is pretty fast. Fast enough to catch Madara despite not even being released. Bottom

You must be registered for see links

and Madara can't even be seen in the panel emphasizing on its speed

You must be registered for see links

The Katon is nothing before that speed especially when Gai can release it at the same time or slightly before.

- If Gai gets close too a point where he'll get caught, Sasuke might opt not to use Katon because whether Gai gets caught, Sasuke won't want to get caught up too, so he most likely won't continue with this strategy. This is in the worst scenario possible because Gai won't be getting caught.

Gai can even tempt Sasuke by running round him in the 6th or 5th like this in the middle and bottom

You must be registered for see links

which is a slower version of this

You must be registered for see links

and then when Sasuke opts to use Amaterasu, Gai sees this and opens the 7th instantly to evade on ground level.

If Gai is in mid air and Sasuke hasn't actually used his jutsu yet he has no reason to use his jutsu in the first place. If Gai waits till after it's been used Hirudora isn't going to reach Sasuke and explode before Katon has passed through. Hirudora's execution being faster is irrelevant because he's already at a disadvantage due to the fact that he'll only be able to act after Sasuke has made his hand sign. Especially since he himself needs to be out of range otherwise he'll get killed by the explosion of his own technique. So :lol @ the bold.

Not with the closeness and the distance. Gai can act fast in this case by staying close to Sasuke. He also doesn't have to jump to ridiculously high position.

What's Sasuke going to do when Gai is in mid air even? Amaterasu :lol? That gets him killed as Gai counters with his summon and fires at him. Amaterasu is pretty much useless because that would leave him vulnerable to death.

There is no scenario where Hirudora hits Susanoo just as Katon is coming out of the Susanoo. Gai can't predict movements so the earliest he'll be able to move is once he's seen the hand sign for Sasuke's jutsu, meaning he can only move after Sasuke has made all the preparations he needs to make the jutsu. All Sasuke needs to do is release it while Gai needs to Shunshin above Susanoo and then release Asa Kujaku or Hirudora. Then Hirudora needs to travel a distance large enough to protect Gai from the explosion when it hits. While Gai is doing that Katon has already been released. The best you can logically and reasonably argue is that Hirudora hits Katon and then Sasuke tanks with Susanoo, then the defenseless Gai is killed off w/ Amaterasu, an Arrow or Magatama.

Addressed most of this and no, there's that suggest MS Sasuke's V4 would be firing an arrow. No evidence of this at all. My previous post:

That's EMS Sasuke and there wasn't any bow and arrow against the Zetsu Platoon, This is the same V4, it's only this he has, there's no bow but a shield

You must be registered for see links

and the scan you're referring to with the Zetsu Platoon, that could easily have been his aura if it's the exact scan I'm thinking of. When have we seen MS Sasuke's V4 use the bow and arrow? Not to mention, Different forms of Susano'o tend to use different tools while Susano'o has 3 hands only.

1.

You must be registered for see links

2.

You must be registered for see links

3.

You must be registered for see links

, V4
4. Bottom left, only one hand on the side that holds the shield

You must be registered for see links

5.

You must be registered for see links

etc

Sasuke's V4 only wields an orb, a shield and a sword which can be used as an arrow because the Orb/Enton is what creates it

You must be registered for see links

(Orb shown to create it here in the middle panel

You must be registered for see links

) He can't switch because the bow and arrow/sword automatically comes as he unlocks V3 as shown in the first and second scan. Check their previous pages and you'll see. MS Sasuke's V4 wields a shield in it's left hand which gives no room to the bow. He wields an orb and a sword in its right.

Those little Magatamas can be intercepted with Asakujaku. If the Katons don't come, this comes and Gai for sure isn't wasting chakra when him in mid air would stop Sasuke from firing the Katon but then force him to resort to holding V4 for a longer time than he anticipated.

Only way a scenario like this ever becomes plausible is if Gai is ready to release Hirudora BEFORE Sasuke has readied his Katon, and a scenario like that gets Gai killed in a matter of moments.

Which is possible. Before Katon is released, the seal and inhaling would allow Gai bypass this. Once this is a possibility, Gai counters for sure.

What's Gai going to do every time Sasuke uses a Katon? Bust out Hirudora and Asa Kujaku? :lol. He'll end up wearing himself out letting Sasuke slaughter him without the need for Kirin.

Lol no. Gai uses Hirudora when the opening is made and it can get through. Gai uses Asakujaku when it's clear to him that he can't make Hirudora get past.

What's Sasuke going to do? Keep using Katon when it's clearly useless?

The scan that explicitly shows only a certain part of Susanoo changing composition to allow solid objects through. What evidence in the Manga would lead you to the conclusion that the entire body would also be solid? None. Bold is you making a claim, then saying "it should apply" without actually proving that it should and then asking for evidence that your claim is false even though you've yet to actually prove it's true.

Conceded.

You must be registered for see links

Oh yes, and Katon can be used through Susanoo. No gap. Sasuke fired his Fireball Jutsu straight through the front of his Susanoo and there is no visible gap or any flaring chakra that'd indicate a gap.

We can't even see that clearly lol. There's a writing that even blocks us from seeing the opening and there's the fact that there's a thin fire line(

You must be registered for see links

) which doesn't even need a visible shown gap. That's the fire ball jutsu but the great dragon requires no thin line continuously. The Madara scan I showed clearly shows the chakra being pushed aside as he was coming out

 

[shelke]

Raikage.

Hebi Sasuke can beat Guy tbh. Guy has no counter to Manda. Hiroudora isn't taking down Manda.

Spoiler

JK. KG is proabably referring to V4 Susanoo Sasuke. I think any other version can get taken down due to Hiroudora if you believe the move destroyed Madara's Susanoo.

7th Gate isn't getting through CS2 when it couldn't kill kisame. Oh yeah, and, he never destroyed that Susanoo.

 

[KidGamer65]

Did you read or understand what I said? No you didn't understand what I was talking about. Gai as a whole moved upwards entirely. No just his head and upper body :lol You can't possibly argue that...Kisame is sent flying completely upwards which is why Gai uses the body flicker to get to him

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

"He initiates the technique after kicking the opponent into the air" ...If he was on the ground, Kisame would be flying upwards into the air and Gai would be boosting up to meet him, same case here. Kisame is sent flying upwards and Gai reaches with the body flicker. You can even watch it here:

Fast forwards to 1:59 and you'll see exactly what I'm taking about 9https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq8JNZCpeUM9 (remove to 9 in front of the http and the 9 after the last M) . Lol but this is a manga where all kinds of things that can't happen in real life occurs. I can question these things when things like things go against actual real life scenarios lol. I am asking why Gai can't move this same way to counter the technique. I don't see what's wrong with this at all. You say his head or upper body but he's shown moving completely higher. I know what you're saying about moving in the air to dodge or so, but why is this particular case I've shown not possible when he's actually done this. Why? Your post isn't really touching this particular case except stating it't not possible. This is him moving completely to catch Kisame above despite him being in mid air already. I just can't understand this concept right here. It happened.

Lol you really need to dead this ridiculous ass argument. I understood exactly what you said and it literally changes nothing. Why are you even talking about real life scenarios when Ninja having limited movement in mid air is MANGA LOGIC AND MANGA FACT. You don't see Gai when he's moving from his original position to Kisame's position so you can't claim that he 100% Shunshin'd from mid air.

Meanwhile I have multiple Manga showings of Shunshin being stated to work by exploding chakra off the ground which propels the user forward. How in the world do you do that in the air? Meanwhile I have statements of Gai's ability to walk and run on air being treated as a new ability of the 8th Gate yet you are over here claiming he can practically do the same thing in the 7th Gate. :lol And then even if you proved that Gai can move in mid air you've yet to actually prove that Gai can move at the same speed he does on the ground, in the air. If I were to use your ridiculous logic I'd be saying that

You must be registered for see links

isn't special because Gai should be able to accomplish the same thing with Shunshin in mid air w/ lower gates.

You must be registered for see links

Naruto was about to die here, if Shunshin in mid air, or rather movement on par with your movement on ground, really was a thing he would've been able to dodge. I can easily find more examples of this.

You must be registered for see links

Kakashi was about to die, Naruto's clone pushed him out of the way. Not necessary if in air movement was as easy as you claimed it was.

And then we have Gai himself. Gai used his turtle as grounding so he could use Shunshin and propel himself towards Kisame. If doing that in mid air was so easy and yielded the same exact results and speed as using the turtle or the ground then why in the world did Gai use the turtle in the first place?

Oh wait, because you are wrong here. The only thing you'll ever get me to agree with or be able to actually prove is that a certain degree of movement is possible in air.


So again. Stop with this point. Gai dodging Amaterasu in mid air is 100% nonsense that no one who reads the Manga would ever attempt to argue. That's 4 posts wasted on this topic.

Nope..Not especially if Gai keeps a normal distance that's not too far. Gai immediately fires Hirudora along with the summon since it dies anyways. Sasuke doesn't avoid this scenario. Not possible.

What normal distance? He needs to be far away enough otherwise he kills himself. The only way Sasuke gets hit with Hirudora before he can put Susanoo back up is if Gai is in his face, and, even then Hirudora doesn't have the feats to blitz Sasuke w/o a mental reaction so this another argument you can stop making. "Amaterasu will keep Susanoo down" isn't a legit argument because Gai won't be attacking until after Amaterasu has been used. So what, Gai is going to release Hirudora and hit Sasuke before Susanoo can be put back up? Yeah, no. Not in this lifetime. Kisame w/ GSB matched Hirudora's execution. Travel could be because they were underwater so I'm not going to include that.

Or Gai moves up as Sasuke spits the fire but get there before it since he's much faster, or when Sasuke is about to spit it out.

Addressed. If Gai moves as Sasuke is spitting out his fire then you'll have to provide the speed feats for Hirudora and him that let him:

-Reach a safe distance.
-Release Hirudora.
-Have Hirudora travel that distance and hit Susanoo.

All before

You must be registered for see links

exists

You must be registered for see links

. It's nonsense to continue arguing this point. The time difference between him "about to spit it out" and "him in the process of him spitting it out" is too minuscule for you to try and separate these points anyway as they lead to the same conclusion. Gai failing hard.

You're not addressing Sasuke moving before the Jutsu is actually used

You must be registered for see links

look at the bottom left scan. The bleeding must have notified him of course. We know Sasuke can't react to Amaterasu and we know for a fact that Sasuke moved before Itachi opened his eyes fully for the Jutsu. Even when he wasn't to use it again, he closes that eye which is a hint as he did and as Sasuke does before the bleeding occurs.

Sasuke started running before anything happened. Itachi's eye didn't bleed a second time. His eye was already closed from when he shut Amaterasu off the second time too. Sasuke moved because he knew Itachi was going to attack again, not because Itachi's actions gave him any kind of cue. Because they didn't. No bleeding and his eye was already closed from the first Amaterasu attempt.

Not like this matters because Gai can't evade Amaterasu in mid air.

Then Gai needs to stay close. Susano'o can't touch him because he'll evade the attacks every time as Sasuke would tire out. If Gai is close, then he'll have more time to attack.

Which doesn't help because staying close means he kills himself with his own technique.

Well, I'm arguing for Gai just like you're arguing for Sasuke. That was in the fanbook where it was mentioned but the users always use Snake to begin before Tiger. However, there's no point since this won't stop Gai. Sasuke can't follow Gai's movements let alone hit him with a Fireball jutsu so Gai doesn't need to bother since he has intel on Sasuke and his techniques. The Range and the use. Gai would go upwards regardless once he sees the sign because the only way a Katon would be coming here would be if he's using Kirin which Gai would be aiming to prevent. That's what I'm stating because Sasuke's can't touch him which Gai knows. Sasuke isn't using Amaterasu on Gai but resorting to a Katon that has a short range and is less effective. This is an easy one for Gai to realize. Not that because I know doesn't mean he'll know or so. There's no reason for him not to.

Sasuke is shown using tiger for Katon Fireball multiple times in this series. The rest is you repeating what was already stated. Gai seeing a hand sign for Katon=/=Gai knowing that he's setting up Kirin when Sasuke could literally be using the Katon for any other reason. He could be using it for a feint for his next attack or a distraction for his next attack. "Sasuke can't touch him with what gai knows" is irrelevant because the goal isn't to touch him with Katon.

Another thing is the fact that Sasuke would be facing upwards while trying to use this jutsu..He's not going to be looking at Gai or below especially when he believes he's heavily protected by Version 4 based on his intel. Not to mention, one inhales before he uses Fire Style Jutsus

You must be registered for see links

,

You must be registered for see links

..Applies to Sasuke considering he's also blowing in the SFX which makes sense as it took 3 panels with Zetsu noticing before we were shown

You must be registered for see links

The feint won't work.

That literally takes a second.Stop using panel time as an indication of time elapsed in the Manga. Go inhale in real life and tell if me it takes you more than a second. And a feint working is irrelevant because that clearly wasn't the point of what I was saying here.

- Gai is nearby Sasuke, close-by and can even get behind Susano'o with his speed. Sasuke's Susano'o can't hit him so Gai doesn't need to worry about being close. Gai would just jump when Sasuke opts to shoot it and he'll be faster by far since Sasuke even has to inhale too or do whatever he did that took 3 panels for it to be released after the sign. When Gai jumps, he can decide not to be far off.

Stop counting time using panels. Panels will never equate time elapsed no matter how many people try to use that argument. Katon takes a hand sign and then a release. That's a second. Gai can't see the hand sign, jump into position and release Hirudora and reach Susanoo all in the time span of a second. Saying stuff like "he has to inhale" "took 3 panels" is you reaching and nitpicking.

- How far was Gai from Kisame when he set off Hirudora?

You must be registered for see links

, that's not even as further as I imagine against Sasuke. Gai would evade it considering that AOE is even far larger than the one against Madara. Gai being closer than that won't catch him in the AOE. Also it didn't carry Kisame back who was holding his GSB and we still see sharks around him showing Hirudora exploded right there. The distance is credible and Gai would definitely get it while the Katon's coming out if he plays smart.

Most of that explosion was

You must be registered for see links

water. Gai and Kisame weren't at the center of that explosion as the center would be the middle of the explosion shown in that panel while Kisame and Gai were shown standing on top of the water after everything had been said and done.

Completely different scenario than Gai being close to Susanoo, hovering above it and then firing a blast right down at it. Hirudora's explosion range is massive regardless of which feat you want to take into account here. If Gai is in the explosion he dies so there's definitely no disputing that so I'm not even sure why you bothered to bring up Kisame vs. Gai here when that doesn't change anything about what is being said here.

-No dodging in mid air.
-If he's not outside of the explosion radius he gets injured or dies.

The only thing bringing Kisame would do to help you is if you could prove he could evade in mid air (which you can't) or try to argue why he can be inside the explosion and still survive despite it being an explosion capable of destroying Susanoo. I hope I see neither argument from you.

Evade it? Gai will be in mid air when this happens. Where are the feats that let him move that fast and that far while in mid air? Oh wait, they don't exist just like the feats of him being able to evade Amaterasu in mid air.

- The process enables Gai catch up with Hirudora against the Katon coming out. Seal, inhale and Katon comes. In between here, Gai is in the perfect position to release his super fast punch at the right time. Sees the seal or inhale and then he jumps as quick and then releases it.

Uh, no. These speed feats don't exist. Katon takes a second to use. Claiming that Gai, who will have to wait until Sasuke has actually made his hand sign (thus the chakra for the jutsu is already kneaded) will be able to Shunshin in the air, release Hirudora from a safe distance and have it reach and hit Sasuke before his Katon has passed through his Susanoo is nonsense. A claim based on little.

-Seal is made.
-Gai reaches his position.
-Katon is released. (Or Hirudora is released here)
-Hirudora is released.
-Katon leaves Susanoo. Hirudora hits and is tanked.

Then Sasuke fires another Katon while masked by the smoke and dust of the explosion.

- Gai stated AT is a punch faster than any other so the speed is pretty fast. Fast enough to catch Madara despite not even being released. Bottom

You must be registered for see links

and Madara can't even be seen in the panel emphasizing on its speed

You must be registered for see links

The Katon is nothing before that speed especially when Gai can release it at the same time or slightly before.

Fast? Sure. But fast is a vague term that doesn't prove your point. Fast enough to catch Madara? Also not an amazing feat because Madara was already mid attack and not focused on Gai at all when Gai released his Hirudora. And

You must be registered for see links

Especially since v3 Susanoo had enough reach to stab B from that position. Madara being unable to be seen from that panel literally has nothing to do with it's speed so why bother bringing it up? From what the Manga shows Hirudora's best feat is outspeeding Susanoo's strike. Which is good, not amazing.

Lmao. Hirudora's only traveling feat is outspeeding Madara's strike from close range yet you are over here arguing that Gai will be able to release it and hit Sasuke despite Sasuke having a head start on his jutsu w/ far less distance he needs to travel before he's in the clear. Come on now.

- If Gai gets close too a point where he'll get caught, Sasuke might opt not to use Katon because whether Gai gets caught, Sasuke won't want to get caught up too, so he most likely won't continue with this strategy. This is in the worst scenario possible because Gai won't be getting caught.

And then he uses any other form of attack while Gai is in mid air and he gets killed off.

Gai can even tempt Sasuke by running round him in the 6th or 5th like this in the middle and bottom

You must be registered for see links

which is a slower version of this

You must be registered for see links

and then when Sasuke opts to use Amaterasu, Gai sees this and opens the 7th instantly to evade on ground level.

No reason to try and attack Gai when he knows Gai is fast enough to evade it. So yeah, this plan doesn't work

Not with the closeness and the distance. Gai can act fast in this case by staying close to Sasuke. He also doesn't have to jump to ridiculously high position.

Staying close to Sasuke is irrelevant because he himself will still need to get away in order to survive the explosion of his own attack.

What's Sasuke going to do when Gai is in mid air even? Amaterasu :lol? That gets him killed as Gai counters with his summon and fires at him. Amaterasu is pretty much useless because that would leave him vulnerable to death.

That first argument of yours is a bad argument and has already been addressed.

Addressed most of this and no, there's that suggest MS Sasuke's V4 would be firing an arrow. No evidence of this at all. My previous post:

Susanoo can hold whatever weapon it wants as long as the lower versions possess said weapon.

-Itachi's V3 has been barehanded.
-Has held Magatama.
-Has held Yata.
-And a sword.

-Sasuke's V3 has held a bow and arrow.
-Sasuke's V3 has held a sword as well.
-Sasuke's V3, V4 and Ribcage have all held the Enton Orb.

Your previous post doesn't make any sense.

You must be registered for see links

is not a shield. That is a bow and arrow. That is not part of the aura. That's you grasping at straws. Why would part of Susanoo's flickering aura be a small line that goes straight down the backside of this "shield"? :lol

Your reasoning for why he can't switch his weapons also doesn't make sense. You wasted time proving that he can't hold certain weapons together even though that's not necessary, then you say he can't switch the weapon because the bow and arrow automatically come with V3 even though Yata comes out w/ V4 yet Itachi can wield it in V3. (or not at all)

So yeah, Sasuke can fire arrows w/ V4.

Lol no. Gai uses Hirudora when the opening is made and it can get through. Gai uses Asakujaku when it's clear to him that he can't make Hirudora get past.

What's Sasuke going to do? Keep using Katon when it's clearly useless?

Except he can't. There is no opening until Katon has began to pass through Susanoo. If Gai wants to match that w/ his own Hirudora he'll need to be in position before Sasuke has attacked as all these exaggerated feats for Hirudora's speed that'd need to exist to make your argument legit don't exist.

Sasuke using Katon is more practical than Gai spamming attacks that can and will result in his loss by attrition. The best you can argue Gai using is 4 Hirudora and that's me being generous. Sasuke's Katon comes out 2 at at time. Doesn't take a genius to figure out who is going to fail first here. I'm not sure what point you thought you were getting at here. :lol So if tiring out Gai w/ an attack that barely takes any power is defined as useless in your book......:lol

We can't even see that clearly lol. There's a writing that even blocks us from seeing the opening and there's the fact that there's a thin fire line(

You must be registered for see links

) which doesn't even need a visible shown gap. That's the fire ball jutsu but the great dragon requires no thin line continuously. The Madara scan I showed clearly shows the chakra being pushed aside as he was coming out

If there was any major gap you'd see it from the sides of the Susanoo, which aren't obstructed by the text. And all Katon start off as a thin line of flame only for the edge to take their full shape or form at the end of the "string".

You must be registered for see images

And then let's also throw in the fact that Hirudora is too large to fit through whatever "gap" that might be made when Sasuke attacks. Compressed Hirudora hit Madara's Susanoo and was large enough to carry it inside it's mouth. It'd hit Sasuke's Susanoo and then explode and he'd be safe regardless of any gap as the explosion will occur outside, not inside, and the vast majority of Susanoo will be up. A Susanoo that Hirudora can barely damage let alone breach.

So again, you don't have a point here. Your argument has been addressed in 3 different ways. Susanoo tanks Hirudora, Katon sets up Kirin and Gai dies a quick death on impact.

 

[ToshiZO]

Lmfao this man thinks this is Bleach.

You must be registered for see images

 

[LoZelda101]

Gamabunta blade going through Manda means nothing when Killer bee tails were cut off by kunai yet he tanked his own Bijuudama. If a v3 Susanoo would have been caught by c0 it would be completely erased. Manda is much more durable than a V3 susanoo this shouldn't be debatable.

I never understood that logic in this series. naruto pierced by a sword yet he tanked deva, juubidara tanked 8gates/magma FRS, sliced in half by sasuke's spear. honestly, just because of those examples it's likely totsuka blade hype of piercing practically any of it's targets could be legit just because of it's shape and non physical attribute to it. (sad i know)

 

[Haizaki]

Lol you really need to dead this ridiculous ass argument. I understood exactly what you said and it literally changes nothing. Why are you even talking about real life scenarios when Ninja having limited movement in mid air is MANGA LOGIC AND MANGA FACT. You don't see Gai when he's moving from his original position to Kisame's position so you can't claim that he 100% Shunshin'd from mid air.

Meanwhile I have multiple Manga showings of Shunshin being stated to work by exploding chakra off the ground which propels the user forward. How in the world do you do that in the air? Meanwhile I have statements of Gai's ability to walk and run on air being treated as a new ability of the 8th Gate yet you are over here claiming he can practically do the same thing in the 7th Gate. :lol And then even if you proved that Gai can move in mid air you've yet to actually prove that Gai can move at the same speed he does on the ground, in the air. If I were to use your ridiculous logic I'd be saying that

You must be registered for see links

isn't special because Gai should be able to accomplish the same thing with Shunshin in mid air w/ lower gates.

You must be registered for see links

Naruto was about to die here, if Shunshin in mid air, or rather movement on par with your movement on ground, really was a thing he would've been able to dodge. I can easily find more examples of this.

You must be registered for see links

Kakashi was about to die, Naruto's clone pushed him out of the way. Not necessary if in air movement was as easy as you claimed it was.

And then we have Gai himself. Gai used his turtle as grounding so he could use Shunshin and propel himself towards Kisame. If doing that in mid air was so easy and yielded the same exact results and speed as using the turtle or the ground then why in the world did Gai use the turtle in the first place?

Oh wait, because you are wrong here. The only thing you'll ever get me to agree with or be able to actually prove is that a certain degree of movement is possible in air.


So again. Stop with this point. Gai dodging Amaterasu in mid air is 100% nonsense that no one who reads the Manga would ever attempt to argue. That's 4 posts wasted on this topic.





What normal distance? He needs to be far away enough otherwise he kills himself. The only way Sasuke gets hit with Hirudora before he can put Susanoo back up is if Gai is in his face, and, even then Hirudora doesn't have the feats to blitz Sasuke w/o a mental reaction so this another argument you can stop making. "Amaterasu will keep Susanoo down" isn't a legit argument because Gai won't be attacking until after Amaterasu has been used. So what, Gai is going to release Hirudora and hit Sasuke before Susanoo can be put back up? Yeah, no. Not in this lifetime. Kisame w/ GSB matched Hirudora's execution. Travel could be because they were underwater so I'm not going to include that.




Addressed. If Gai moves as Sasuke is spitting out his fire then you'll have to provide the speed feats for Hirudora and him that let him:

-Reach a safe distance.
-Release Hirudora.
-Have Hirudora travel that distance and hit Susanoo.

All before

You must be registered for see links

exists

You must be registered for see links

. It's nonsense to continue arguing this point. The time difference between him "about to spit it out" and "him in the process of him spitting it out" is too minuscule for you to try and separate these points anyway as they lead to the same conclusion. Gai failing hard.





Sasuke started running before anything happened. Itachi's eye didn't bleed a second time. His eye was already closed from when he shut Amaterasu off the second time too. Sasuke moved because he knew Itachi was going to attack again, not because Itachi's actions gave him any kind of cue. Because they didn't. No bleeding and his eye was already closed from the first Amaterasu attempt.

Not like this matters because Gai can't evade Amaterasu in mid air.




Which doesn't help because staying close means he kills himself with his own technique.




Sasuke is shown using tiger for Katon Fireball multiple times in this series. The rest is you repeating what was already stated. Gai seeing a hand sign for Katon=/=Gai knowing that he's setting up Kirin when Sasuke could literally be using the Katon for any other reason. He could be using it for a feint for his next attack or a distraction for his next attack. "Sasuke can't touch him with what gai knows" is irrelevant because the goal isn't to touch him with Katon.




That literally takes a second.Stop using panel time as an indication of time elapsed in the Manga. Go inhale in real life and tell if me it takes you more than a second. And a feint working is irrelevant because that clearly wasn't the point of what I was saying here.





Stop counting time using panels. Panels will never equate time elapsed no matter how many people try to use that argument. Katon takes a hand sign and then a release. That's a second. Gai can't see the hand sign, jump into position and release Hirudora and reach Susanoo all in the time span of a second. Saying stuff like "he has to inhale" "took 3 panels" is you reaching and nitpicking.



Most of that explosion was

You must be registered for see links

water. Gai and Kisame weren't at the center of that explosion as the center would be the middle of the explosion shown in that panel while Kisame and Gai were shown standing on top of the water after everything had been said and done.

Completely different scenario than Gai being close to Susanoo, hovering above it and then firing a blast right down at it. Hirudora's explosion range is massive regardless of which feat you want to take into account here. If Gai is in the explosion he dies so there's definitely no disputing that so I'm not even sure why you bothered to bring up Kisame vs. Gai here when that doesn't change anything about what is being said here.

-No dodging in mid air.
-If he's not outside of the explosion radius he gets injured or dies.

The only thing bringing Kisame would do to help you is if you could prove he could evade in mid air (which you can't) or try to argue why he can be inside the explosion and still survive despite it being an explosion capable of destroying Susanoo. I hope I see neither argument from you.

Evade it? Gai will be in mid air when this happens. Where are the feats that let him move that fast and that far while in mid air? Oh wait, they don't exist just like the feats of him being able to evade Amaterasu in mid air.



Uh, no. These speed feats don't exist. Katon takes a second to use. Claiming that Gai, who will have to wait until Sasuke has actually made his hand sign (thus the chakra for the jutsu is already kneaded) will be able to Shunshin in the air, release Hirudora from a safe distance and have it reach and hit Sasuke before his Katon has passed through his Susanoo is nonsense. A claim based on little.

-Seal is made.
-Gai reaches his position.
-Katon is released. (Or Hirudora is released here)
-Hirudora is released.
-Katon leaves Susanoo. Hirudora hits and is tanked.

Then Sasuke fires another Katon while masked by the smoke and dust of the explosion.



Fast? Sure. But fast is a vague term that doesn't prove your point. Fast enough to catch Madara? Also not an amazing feat because Madara was already mid attack and not focused on Gai at all when Gai released his Hirudora. And

You must be registered for see links

Especially since v3 Susanoo had enough reach to stab B from that position. Madara being unable to be seen from that panel literally has nothing to do with it's speed so why bother bringing it up? From what the Manga shows Hirudora's best feat is outspeeding Susanoo's strike. Which is good, not amazing.

Lmao. Hirudora's only traveling feat is outspeeding Madara's strike from close range yet you are over here arguing that Gai will be able to release it and hit Sasuke despite Sasuke having a head start on his jutsu w/ far less distance he needs to travel before he's in the clear. Come on now.



And then he uses any other form of attack while Gai is in mid air and he gets killed off.



No reason to try and attack Gai when he knows Gai is fast enough to evade it. So yeah, this plan doesn't work



Staying close to Sasuke is irrelevant because he himself will still need to get away in order to survive the explosion of his own attack.



That first argument of yours is a bad argument and has already been addressed.



Susanoo can hold whatever weapon it wants as long as the lower versions possess said weapon.

-Itachi's V3 has been barehanded.
-Has held Magatama.
-Has held Yata.
-And a sword.

-Sasuke's V3 has held a bow and arrow.
-Sasuke's V3 has held a sword as well.
-Sasuke's V3, V4 and Ribcage have all held the Enton Orb.

Your previous post doesn't make any sense.

You must be registered for see links

is not a shield. That is a bow and arrow. That is not part of the aura. That's you grasping at straws. Why would part of Susanoo's flickering aura be a small line that goes straight down the backside of this "shield"? :lol

Your reasoning for why he can't switch his weapons also doesn't make sense. You wasted time proving that he can't hold certain weapons together even though that's not necessary, then you say he can't switch the weapon because the bow and arrow automatically come with V3 even though Yata comes out w/ V4 yet Itachi can wield it in V3. (or not at all)

So yeah, Sasuke can fire arrows w/ V4.





Except he can't. There is no opening until Katon has began to pass through Susanoo. If Gai wants to match that w/ his own Hirudora he'll need to be in position before Sasuke has attacked as all these exaggerated feats for Hirudora's speed that'd need to exist to make your argument legit don't exist.

Sasuke using Katon is more practical than Gai spamming attacks that can and will result in his loss by attrition. The best you can argue Gai using is 4 Hirudora and that's me being generous. Sasuke's Katon comes out 2 at at time. Doesn't take a genius to figure out who is going to fail first here. I'm not sure what point you thought you were getting at here. :lol So if tiring out Gai w/ an attack that barely takes any power is defined as useless in your book......:lol




If there was any major gap you'd see it from the sides of the Susanoo, which aren't obstructed by the text. And all Katon start off as a thin line of flame only for the edge to take their full shape or form at the end of the "string".

You must be registered for see images

And then let's also throw in the fact that Hirudora is too large to fit through whatever "gap" that might be made when Sasuke attacks. Compressed Hirudora hit Madara's Susanoo and was large enough to carry it inside it's mouth. It'd hit Sasuke's Susanoo and then explode and he'd be safe regardless of any gap as the explosion will occur outside, not inside, and the vast majority of Susanoo will be up. A Susanoo that Hirudora can barely damage let alone breach.

So again, you don't have a point here. Your argument has been addressed in 3 different ways. Susanoo tanks Hirudora, Katon sets up Kirin and Gai dies a quick death on impact.

Too long. The only thing I can probably agree with is the Amaterasu on air point. Disagree with the others we've dragged on for long..The posts I haven't addressed are:

Your previous post doesn't make any sense. This is not a shield. That is a bow and arrow. That is not part of the aura. That's you grasping at straws. Why would part of Susanoo's flickering aura be a small line that goes straight down the backside of this "shield"?

Should say this is a bow because of the same line? Clearly not when that's a shield because you're scan doesn't show the complete thing at all. This scan is the same

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

What you're saying makes no sense because why would Sasuke create a bow but an arrow in the scan you showed? Make no sense especially for a V4 that never pulls out a bow. You're clearly wrong.

I told you. Sword/Bow, the same because the Orb they hold forms this and it can be used as both. 2 hands on the right, one holds the Orb, one holds the sword/bow which the orb can form

You must be registered for see links

..The bow is a given. Sasuke's V3 never held a shield, you can show me anywhere where it was holding a shield in its single left hand. Always a bow. Where the Orb was Enton or not is irrelevant because he's always shown to wield and orb in that hand anyways. His sword/bow changes with the orb being Enton or not but the bow never does

You must be registered for see links

V3=bow in its left, V4= shield in its left. When did Itachi's V3 ever use a sword? I remember the V2 using it but V3? If not it's the Yata because V3 using Yata. Yasaka Magatama is a Jutsu formed here

You must be registered for see links

and against Naruto and it was said here:

DB4: "The Jutsu that is Itachi's most powerful long distance attack"


As for the Katon point, how can you even compare?

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Where's the thin line? That's just at the beginning where he spits it out. This is a case where it is continuous like I showed in that scan

You must be registered for see links

or like this

You must be registered for see links

..The writing you've shown clearly blocks us it in your previous scan. We can't even see Sasuke and we can't see the thin line. The writing even touches Susano'o to a degree. You can't use this point especially when this case is completely different:lol

As for AT, it was reducing in size against Kisame when it passed through GSB that was bigger than it. It got smaller according to what Kisame was saying. Not an issue

 

[KidGamer65]

Too long. The only thing I can probably agree with is the Amaterasu on air point. Disagree with the others we've dragged on for long..The posts I haven't addressed are:

Lmao. It's dragged on for 4 posts because you are using bad logic and exaggerated feats to try and prove your points.

Should say this is a bow because of the same line? Clearly not when that's a shield because you're scan doesn't show the complete thing at all. This scan is the same

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Lmao that is obviously a bow. What are you trying to argue against here? It's as obvious as day and night how little sense this argument of yours makes. A shield would be a circle. A Perfect circle. That's it. That is exactly how the

You must be registered for see links

would look. So stop it. How did you even come to the conclusion that this was a shield in the first place? :lol

This is a

You must be registered for see links

. That is a bow.

What you're saying makes no sense because why would Sasuke create a bow but an arrow in the scan you showed? Make no sense especially for a V4 that never pulls out a bow. You're clearly wrong.

Bad logic. I can easily say "why would he pull out a shield when he's not attacking". So again, your argument makes zero sense.

I told you. Sword/Bow, the same because the Orb they hold forms this and it can be used as both. 2 hands on the right, one holds the Orb, one holds the sword/bow which the orb can form

You must be registered for see links

..The bow is a given. Sasuke's V3 never held a shield, you can show me anywhere where it was holding a shield in its single left hand. Always a bow. Where the Orb was Enton or not is irrelevant because he's always shown to wield and orb in that hand anyways. His sword/bow changes with the orb being Enton or not but the bow never does

You must be registered for see links

V3=bow in its left, V4= shield in its left. When did Itachi's V3 ever use a sword? I remember the V2 using it but V3? If not it's the Yata because V3 using Yata. Yasaka Magatama is a Jutsu formed here

You must be registered for see links

and against Naruto and it was said here:

DB4: "The Jutsu that is Itachi's most powerful long distance attack"

This has all been addressed. V4 has explicitly shown to use a bow and arrow if Sasuke wants. You'd have to be blind or desperate to argue that it's a shield despite it having the same characteristics as the bow. And no one said that Sasuke's V3 had a shield. :lol


As for the Katon point, how can you even compare?

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Where's the thin line? That's just at the beginning where he spits it out. This is a case where it is continuous like I showed in that scan

You must be registered for see links

or like this

You must be registered for see links

..The writing you've shown clearly blocks us it in your previous scan. We can't even see Sasuke and we can't see the thin line. The writing even touches Susano'o to a degree. You can't use this point especially when this case is completely different:lol

It's a projectile. No reason for there to be a thin line after it's fired off. It being continuous changes what again? Oh wait, it doesn't matter. The jutsu is almost as large and longer than Susanoo. Most of the jutsu would be outside of Susanoo due to length of that line when Sasuke uses the jutsu anyway. So we can stop arguing that Gai shoots Hirudora through Susanoo when he needs to be far enough away and when Hirudora doesn't have the speed feats to do what you claim it can do. When it's fired off it'll be just like Katon until it actually leaves the area.

As for AT, it was reducing in size against Kisame when it passed through GSB that was bigger than it. It got smaller according to what Kisame was saying. Not an issue

Uh, no. :lol Hirudora starts off large, compresses and then hits the target. What you saw against Madara is Hirudora after compression. So you are wrong here too.

 

[Haizaki]

This has all been addressed. V4 has explicitly shown to use a bow and arrow if Sasuke wants. You'd have to be blind or desperate to argue that it's a shield despite it having the same characteristics as the bow. And no one said that Sasuke's V3 had a shield

It's actually uses both at the same time. Didn't realize because I always thought he used a bow but it appears it's both with V4 having a round middle compared V3. He maintains one weapon especially when the shield looks like it's flaming out aura rather than the bow. The bow looks bigger but never seen it in full. That's my bad. Got it confused.

Oh and look at the bottom left scans, compare it to Kisame's size

You must be registered for see links

..I don't agree with the rests but I think it should end for now.

 

[KidGamer65]

It's actually uses both at the same time. Didn't realize because I always thought he used a bow but it appears it's both with V4 having a round middle compared V3. He maintains one weapon especially when the shield looks like it's flaming out aura rather than the bow. The bow looks bigger but never seen it in full. That's my bad. Got it confused.

Oh and look at the bottom left scans, compare it to Kisame's size

You must be registered for see links

..I don't agree with the rests but I think it should end for now.

Just going to let you know that this comparison doesn't work. Kisame is closer to the reader's POV than the Hirudora is so them being the same size only means that if it gets closer or if Kisame gets farther that Kisame will end up as the smaller one.

 

[Haizaki]

Just going to let you know that this comparison doesn't work. Kisame is closer to the reader's POV than the Hirudora is so them being the same size only means that if it gets closer or if Kisame gets farther that Kisame will end up as the smaller one.

Kisame isn't closer?

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[KidGamer65]

Kisame isn't closer?

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

No and the scan you posted shows that clearly.

You must be registered for see images

Compressed Hirudora is a little less than half the size of GSB. Kisame is not that size.

 

[shelke]

I never understood that logic in this series. naruto pierced by a sword yet he tanked deva, juubidara tanked 8gates/magma FRS, sliced in half by sasuke's spear. honestly, just because of those examples it's likely totsuka blade hype of piercing practically any of it's targets could be legit just because of it's shape and non physical attribute to it. (sad i know)

Partial transformation (kunai incident) where the tentacle was so small versus a full BM. The analogy isn't even right.