[Discussion] 3 v3 brawl old enemies vs new monsters.

[ssjelf]

Zoro had to cut stone fighting Pica, Zoro had cut stone before facing Oz yet hiss sword attacks against Oz were hardly deep cuts, even that raven attack which looks like it would shred a normal person. Also I don't care about Vergo or his ranking in regard to Pica so why even bring that up, it feels like you're beginning to bring other things into this issue.

The Earth we live on is irrelevant in a manga, buddy, Oda has shown us islands that have no rock.

Do you remember how big Oz was? He was 4 times the size of an average giant who are already 15 meters or so tall(the 15th anniversary "dive to grand world says over 15 but let's say 15) that's 180 feet.

People can we stop with the (insert part 1 character here) doesn't have haki because haki wasn't explained during his time in the manga. If Oda had intro'd armament Haki in chap 1 I'd say very valid point but Oda had never hinted at the concept before the fight with Oz so why would he have Oz show it? Also Oz had Luffy's shadow which gives the body the abilities of the original and Luffy didn't have Haki then, I know a lot of people hate hypothetical's but we actually have no idea what Oz himself was capable of, we only saw him with Luffy's skill and mind state being controlled by Moriah he had no free will or sense of self in that fight and we all know it to be true.

As for Oz's strength, Giants are naturally stronger than a normal sized human and then Oz is four times that gap so Oz is at least 8 times as strong as a good fighter of human size. I'd say that lends a serious hand at breaking an opponents haki, you'd have to have some of the densest Haki imaginable and just because you can coat your whole body doesn't mean it will be dense enough. Also his strength was said to be able to move continents so what's an island gonna do to someone who can move a whole continent?

I've been wondering something about Haki too, say you have 100% Haki in a person. They can use that 100% all in one location but when they disperse it to multiple areas simultaneously is it still 100%at all those spots? Logic would say no, fanyboyism probably says yes. I would think it decreases in density or impactfulness the more it's spread, so instead of having 100% effect on a hand you get 60-70% everywhere.

Luffy broke through Boa Marigolds using gear 2 attacks, which I'm sure you'll come back against with Oz doesn't have, Luffy's main character, Gear 2 isn't pure physical power yada yada. My point is still true that Haki can be broken without Haki.

Haki can be broken sure, but we have never seen hardened armament haki broken without haki. And yes we can use part 1 no haki to compare to part 2, its part of the story you gotta deal with it.

i am not sure how fullbody haki works, but seing as how its is still hardened it is greater than any armament haki seen in part 1. BTW dead Oz is clearly not strong enough to move a continent and I assume that is what would be fighting pica not alive oz.

 

[kyubbi sagemode]

Post ts M3 would win. The only real threat is kuma. I don't see any of them having trouble with oars, moriah, or enel. Zoro and sanji could easily defeat enel, oars and moriah. Sanji is supposed to specialize in observation haki and with his speed he should have no trouble Dodging enels attacks..

Zoro could most likely dodge it as well and tank some of enels attacks also. (As he was shown to dodge kumas lazers while he was injured and also took luffys pain.) and that was pre ts. And they would have no trouble at all with moriah and oars. Hells memories would do a great deal of damage on oars and zoro could easily do to them what he did to pica.

Luffy would have a lot of trouble with kuma if he has his brain but I could luffy winning. And if he can't he would have zoro and sanji by his side after they quickly dispose of the others.

 

[VongolaX]

It's a battle of either or because two-thirds of these enemies were defeated, so of course we're going to underestimate them.

Depending on the match up, strawhats can win more times then not.

Physical attacks and electricity are not going to work on luffy because he's a rubber man.

So Enel and Moria are out of the picture, but Kuma could merk luffy given his super metallic body and repulsive ability.

A simple rubber punch won't do anything, so Zoro might be needed or an ultra red hawk variant.

The only one I see giving Zoro problems is Enel because if evasiveness and devil fruit power.

Sanji's is both Kuma and Moria.

Kuma for obvious reasons and Moria being Oarz plus distant shadow attacks.

Physical attacks work well against sanji

 

[chopstickchakra]

Haki can be broken sure, but we have never seen hardened armament haki broken without haki. And yes we can use part 1 no haki to compare to part 2, its part of the story you gotta deal with it.

i am not sure how fullbody haki works, but seing as how its is still hardened it is greater than any armament haki seen in part 1. BTW dead Oz is clearly not strong enough to move a continent and I assume that is what would be fighting pica not alive oz.

I'm getting thrown by some of your terms, what is "hardened armament haki"? Armament haki is already hard I've seen no mention of making your armament haki harder than it is, it's always at peak hardness(unless covering more surface area loses impact). Covering your body in Haki doesn't all of a sudden make your Haki stronger.

Just because Haki hadn't been explained to us at that point we should just assume world renowned characters don't have the basics of fighting skills needed to survive in OP World? Sounds like a stretch. Enel had observation Haki before we knew what it was, and the Boa tribe had armament Haki, why wouldn't other characters have it, we just met them before we learned about types of Haki so of course they weren't going to show it.

Well since Dead OZ isn't really Oz and we were talking about who's stronger Oz or Pica I would say that is an incorrect assumption. And why exactly is he "clearly" not strong enough anyhow, we never saw him try something like it?

 

[ssjelf]

I'm getting thrown by some of your terms, what is "hardened armament haki"? Armament haki is already hard I've seen no mention of making your armament haki harder than it is, it's always at peak hardness(unless covering more surface area loses impact). Covering your body in Haki doesn't all of a sudden make your Haki stronger.

Just because Haki hadn't been explained to us at that point we should just assume world renowned characters don't have the basics of fighting skills needed to survive in OP World? Sounds like a stretch. Enel had observation Haki before we knew what it was, and the Boa tribe had armament Haki, why wouldn't other characters have it, we just met them before we learned about types of Haki so of course they weren't going to show it.

Well since Dead OZ isn't really Oz and we were talking about who's stronger Oz or Pica I would say that is an incorrect assumption. And why exactly is he "clearly" not strong enough anyhow, we never saw him try something like it?

Uhmm armament haki doesnt have an appearance, hardened armament haki does. Boa marigold and sentomaru used aramanet haki but it did not look black. When it turns black it is referred to as hardened in the series and the anime. The wiki does a good job of explaining it. By turning it black your haki is known to be at a higher level.

We shouldn't assume someone has haki unless it is explained to us they do or they show that ability. Oz didn't show us haki that much is once again very obvious. At the least, dead oz didn't.

Because the topic was Oz and Moria we are talking about dead oz. Alive oz has no feats and only hype so we can't compare. I don't know why you thought my comparioson of Pica to oz was against an opponent not mentioned in the original topic. For clarification, I was talking about dead oz because moria would be using him like he did in the manga. My comparison was this: Zoro one shot Pica. Therefore he can one shot oz. Tomato king said that oz was stronger than pica so that wouldnt happen and i said I disagreed, pica>oz. The Oz i was implying is the only one we have seen. Alive oz vs pica is not an argument in which i will state an opinion. Dead oz is clearly not strong enough because none of his attacks were on that scale, they were fighting on island sized boat that stayed mostly intact, a continent is thousands of time bigger than an island, i fail to see how dead oz feats show that he could.