3 Reasons The Sage Is Not Uzumaki

Booker

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Again and again, I've read theories about how The Sage is an Uzumaki, or rather formed the Uzumaki Clan by his own blood. While these theories are clearly thought out, they run into a few issues for me.

-Relevancy-

My first argument against this theory is that a reveal of the Sage being Uzumaki would have zero impact on the story.

We've been beaten over the head (especially in this War Arc) that Naruto is the reincarnation of the Sage. We get that already. It's rather obvious.

So why would Kishimoto be hiding this secret for the entirety of the Manga? It's a super small easter egg that would have next to no relevancy with the story. It's a lot of effort to hide something that, when revealed, our reaction wouldn't go far beyond, "Oh, that's nifty."

Would it tie up any loose ends? No.
Would it make us majorly rethink any plot points? No.

It has no impact.

-Lineage-

The Lineage of The Sage in this theory makes no sense, especially with the newest chapter explaining how he became.

The Sage began with his mother (obviously) Kaguya, the first person ever to use chakra. When The Sage was born, he already had chakra in his veins; making him the second person to have chakra.

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Many of the Pro-Uzumaki theorists suggest that the Uzumaki clan as a whole came before the Senju, contrary to popular belief. The Uzumaki clan as a whole had strong life forces and chakra, just as the Senju, except the Senju obtained this from the Uzumaki.

How can this be, when Kaguya only had one son, The Sage? If The Sage truly was Uzumaki, and he was only the second person ever to use Chakra, how did the rest of the Uzumaki clan obtain their strong life forces and chakra? The Sage only had two sons; The Elder and Younger, which we knew evolved into the Senju and Uchiha and adopted his signature Yin Yang chakras.

Knowing this, how did the Uzumakis adopt their strong life force chakras?

The only sensible answer is that the Uzumaki adopted their chakra from the Senju, since the Senju and Uchiha were the only others to recieve chakra (This goes into a theory I'm working on. How did the other shinobi recieve chakra then? Simple; The Senju and Uchiha line goes far back. They descended from them, through inter-family relationships. That's why their chakra isn't as potent, because it wasn't pure and was watered down through the years. But I digress.)

-Rinnegan-

Theorists also like to justify the Rinnegan with the combination of the Uzumaki+Juubi to create the Rinnegan. They believe The Sage obtained the Rinnegan when he became the Juubi's jinchuriki.

However, this runs into issues as well. It's been suggested time and again the Rinnegan was used by the Sage before hand to defeat the Juubi.

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Here, we can see that Obito used some Jutsu to become the Juubi's jinchuriki. We know this wasn't Kamui, because if it was what was used, Kakashi would have been crushed. On top of that, if Kamui was used to absorb abilities, Obito would have obtained Kakashi's power.

No, this was a Rinnegan Tech. Most likely the same one the Sage used to become the Juubi's Jinchuriki.

Other than that, the Sage being born with an influx of chakra implies he had The Rinnegan, the peak of chakra.



I have many more small issues with it, but these are the main points. Needless to say I do not believe the theory.
 

Lucidus

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i only read a part of what u said i will finish it in a bit.. but at the part where u said with holding this info would have 0 impact that might be so.. but everyone pretty much new the 4th hokage was naruto's father yet that was with held for quite a while aswell so there is no reason why the sage being an uzumaki cant be with held

personally i hope the sage does turn out to be part uzumaki.. this would link naruto more to history of the story
 

Multiply

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Yo, mad props to this nigga. He just shit on all those Uzumaki theories simultaneously.
 

TheSageOfNinetails

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The Sage was from the Ootsutsuki clan.

That clan went on to become the Uchiha and the Senju.

The Senju clan diverged their linage and went on to become the Uzumaki while still having the Senju clan prosper.

The Senju and Uzumaki are blood relatives, meaning they share a common ancestor.

The Sage may not have been and Uzumaki, but he is related to them.
 

Troyg39

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I agree but there couldn't have been ninja clans before there were ninja. So if Uzumaki was strictly a ninja clan name, then there wouldn't be any way the sage's mom or him would've be known as such because ninjas didn't exist there i.e the names weren't invented.

But people still had last names you know. So the sage not having the last name "Uzumaki", assuming that wasn't created until after ninjas were, shouldn't be surprising
 

Transcendence

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Too conclusive to deduce what will happen. We were led to believe Tobi was Madara until the subtle inferences began to coalesce itself in to the Tobi=Obito conclusion. Wait until we get Rikudou's full back story to fully deny or confirm this particular theory.
 

Booker

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Too conclusive to deduce what will happen. We were led to believe Tobi was Madara until the subtle inferences began to coalesce itself in to the Tobi=Obito conclusion. Wait until we get Rikudou's full back story to fully deny or confirm this particular theory.

This is more or less what I'm saying.

As it stands, it's far too inconclusive to assume he was Uzumaki.
 

Lightbringer

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The Sage was from the Ootsutsuki clan.

That clan went on to become the Uchiha and the Senju.

The Senju clan diverged their linage and went on to become the Uzumaki while still having the Senju clan prosper.

The Senju and Uzumaki are blood relatives, meaning they share a common ancestor.

The Sage may not have been and Uzumaki, but he is related to them.

The Uzumaki Clan could have started hundreds of years after the Senju, perhaps from a senju group splitting away from the main clan and mixing bloodlines with other clans

being related to them doesn't make the Rikudou Sennin an Uzumaki
 

Transcendence

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This is more or less what I'm saying.

As it stands, it's far too inconclusive to assume he was Uzumaki.

The point being, the subtle hints lead us to believe that Tobi was Obito/Rikudou was an Uzumaki. We were then told he was Madara and it was very convincing until it was turned on us. The Rikudou ordeal can still be fashioned in a different way; geared towards the Uzumaki conclusion. We will be able to formally conclude once Rikudou gives us his back story.
 

Booker

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The point being, the subtle hints lead us to believe that Tobi was Obito/Rikudou was an Uzumaki. We were then told he was Madara and it was very convincing until it was turned on us. The Rikudou ordeal can still be fashioned in a different way; geared towards the Uzumaki conclusion. We will be able to formally conclude once Rikudou gives us his back story.

It was never obvious that Tobi was Madara.

Anyone with half a brain and decent reading comprehension would have known it was Obito.
 

Transcendence

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It was never obvious that Tobi was Madara.

Anyone with half a brain and decent reading comprehension would have known it was Obito.

Yes it was. He recanted EVERYTHING the real Madara would know of. His battle with Hashirama, the Senju cells, the specifics of the clones and the Zetsu, EVERYTHING. It wasn't until Kakashi's plot exposition came about that it was ever so obvious Tobi was Obito.
 

Booker

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Yes it was. He recanted EVERYTHING the real Madara would know of. His battle with Hashirama, the Senju cells, the specifics of the clones and the Zetsu, EVERYTHING. It wasn't until Kakashi's plot exposition came about that it was ever so obvious Tobi was Obito.

No. Maybe to you.

When Kishi dedicated 5 entire chapters that told the story of Obito, it was obvious. They served no addition to the plot at the time, and when Tobi was introduced, I knew it was Obito.

That, on top of the Kakashi/Tobi eye dilemma, made it extremely obvious. They even had the same spiral motion with their eye jutsu.
 

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I have made a thread disproving this Sir Derp Obito's theory:
So there have been many people who actually think SO6P is uzumaki and hyuuga because of dumbass theories that go against a confirmed manga fact.

Why SO6P Is Not An Uzumaki+Hyuuga:

SO6P himself is uchiha+senju as the manga stated:
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Uchiha = Powerful Chakra + Sharingan + Yin
Senju = Large Chakra + Life Force + Yang

At SO6P time there were no clans, so how can he be an uzumaki + hyuuga when his bloodline is Uchiha + Senju.

Also before people go say that uchiha + senju are creations of juubi, they should remember this scan:
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manga clearly says that they inherited their father's powers, nowhere it mentions about juubi so they should stop bringing crap out of their ass.

Not to also mention that SO6P powers were divided into Yin and Yang = Elder Brother + Younger Brother:
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again nothing mentions about the juubi only SO6P.

So How Did Uzumaki + Hyuuga came to existence?


Uzumaki:
are only descendants of the senju clan as stated by Zetsu:
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Lineage Definition:a Direct descent from a particular ancestor; ancestry.

Uzumaki came from the Younger Son whose descendants would later become the Senju so uzumaki came from Senju which explains why they have:

1-Strong Body
2-Powerful Life Force
3-Long Life

Its something Uzumaki inherited from the Senju, therefore SO6P was never Uzumaki.

Hyuuga:
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The Hyuuga are only related to the Uchiha possibly because of their abilities to see chakra (Dojutsu) and powerful chakra as well as.

nothing much about Hyuuga but they are related to only Uchiha, so they are most likely related to the Elder Brother.

So these theories really need to stop. Its annoying. you cannot make a theory of something that is a fact and even go against it.

The Uchiha + Senju + Uzumaki + Hyuuga family branch should look like this:

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Thank You...Madara Rules:)
 

VongolaX

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There are people out there still saying the sage is an uzamaki?
 

Jcub

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Correct me if I'm wrong,

The basis for your theory is, "it would have no impact on the story". I could camp out at this sentence, however I will keep it brief. Knowing this we know you just don't want Naruto sage, secondly I think you are over egging the pudding here, this manga at the maturity and complexity of Harry Potter. Everything that was foreshadowed in this series (without hours of researching) basically has happened. Naruto is accepted, loved, and supported. He knows his parents, his best friend is with him, he is buddies with kurama, he has met his father.

It might not happen this arc, but he will be. The theories back and forth about Uzimaki clan being OR not being are all very weak, we do not know enough to claim anything by this means alone. Really if Kishi wants it to happen, it will happen he will "Create" away.. authors do that sometimes, he has left things vague for a reason, so he can manipulate it later. That is his mode of operation, and what gives his manga longevity.

Off Topic and not directed at any one person:
I think we could all take note that this is not a free flowing world and Kishi manipulates it, using his veto power to save soandso or kill off soandso. Its as he makes it by design. Theory or rational are minimized.
 

Booker

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Correct me if I'm wrong,

The basis for your theory is, "it would have no impact on the story". I could camp out at this sentence, however I will keep it brief. Knowing this we know you just don't want Naruto sage, secondly I think you are over egging the pudding here, this manga at the maturity and complexity of Harry Potter. Everything that was foreshadowed in this series (without hours of researching) basically has happened. Naruto is accepted, loved, and supported. He knows his parents, his best friend is with him, he is buddies with kurama, he has met his father.

It might not happen this arc, but he will be. The theories back and forth about Uzimaki clan being OR not being are all very weak, we do not know enough to claim anything by this means alone. Really if Kishi wants it to happen, it will happen he will "Create" away.. authors do that sometimes, he has left things vague for a reason, so he can manipulate it later. That is his mode of operation, and what gives his manga longevity.

Off Topic and not directed at any one person:
I think we could all take note that this is not a free flowing world and Kishi manipulates it, using his veto power to save soandso or kill off soandso. Its as he makes it by design. Theory or rational are minimized.

That is not my main point. I suggest you reread my entire thread, because you obviously only read the first paragraph then got lazy.

I admitted in my thread Naruto is the reincarnation of the Sage, so you're, again, wrong.

Work on your reading comprehension.
 

KingHashirama

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i only read a part of what u said i will finish it in a bit.. but at the part where u said with holding this info would have 0 impact that might be so.. but everyone pretty much new the 4th hokage was naruto's father yet that was with held for quite a while aswell so there is no reason why the sage being an uzumaki cant be with held

personally i hope the sage does turn out to be part uzumaki.. this would link naruto more to history of the story

However the connection between Minato and Naruto wasn't mentioned =].

The connection between Nagato uzumaki and the Rinnegan that belongs to the Sage has been mentioned.
 

Booker

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I find it funny how Pro-Uzumaki threads get 5+ pages, but a decent counter doesn't get attention.

Everybody loves a good conspiracy theory. It sounds more exciting.
 

Jcub

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That is not my main point. I suggest you reread my entire thread, because you obviously only read the first paragraph then got lazy.

I admitted in my thread Naruto is the reincarnation of the Sage, so you're, again, wrong.

Work on your reading comprehension.

No I read the whole thing, but to be honest it was a "Hard" read. Its a giant blue wall of meh. I glanced through to fast, that would be my fault, its a laundry list of things you do not agree with. Wasn't worth my full attention.

I might have gotten it wrong, but even with that in mind I didn't Neg rep you for your opinion, calling you "Not too bright".
 
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