2nd Mizukage Vs Tobirama

[ARGUS]

Too bad Tobirama can't control the sand, now can he? Lol
nor does he have any large AOE jutsu that is not killing him. Also, you do know that the Mizukage was telling them
about his jutsus, and weaknesses, right?

You really didnt read my post did you,
@Bold - Lol, GKF would blow the mizukage and his clam to oblivion,
and Lol, Tobirama isnt stupid, he would be able to tell that the huge clam is releasing the mist, and would use his GKF through his edos to eradicate the clam and the genjutsu

The mirage makes a false Mizukage that is far away from the real deal. It's useless if he blow up the mirage.

The real clam would be still near tobirama especially looking at the starting distance, and the fact clam genjutsu would be more effective from shorter distances,
if the mirage blows away from tobirama, then the genjutsu is not affecting tobirama therefore the clam gets wrecked

you're just assuming that Tobirama would know about the clam, and he will just so happen to attack the real one
rather than the genjutsu, even though he can't see or sense the real deal!

I have already explained this above,
Tobirama wont be stupid, his GKF would blow the mist away from him, or most likely would be eradicate the clam and finish the genjutsu due to its large magnitude

45m is a starting distance, that does not mean it will remain as such the whole time, and if Tobirama did right away, he will die as well from the explosion.

Lol, Tobirama is never dying from his own attacks, enough with the BS,and the usual hate
45m is within the range for GKF, meaning that the clam is getting wrecked

let's assume that (even though I don't know why would he care about ET's safety) but anyway, he will just lose chakra by doing so..

Lose chakra by using FTG Lol,
it doesnt consume chakra at all,
not to mention that

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,
if anything, it will be the mizukage running out of chakra,

That's great an all, except he's not going to know from where the attacks are coming from, he will just dodge a mirage.

Lol you do know that the clam is still a summoning meaning that it still has a time limit,
and like i said, the AOE for GKF is too large therefore the genjutsu is countered with ease,
furthermore there are 2 edos meaning that GKF x2 can be used, which will do nothing but kill the mizukage

Do you mean Kishi hates Tobirama so much?
because I did not draw this chapter lol

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or this

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Not going to bother with this,
its not relevant at all in this fight

who so, when they do the same thing? That fodder jutsu destroyed a jinton user.
again, you're ignoring the Genjutsu, and did not provide ANY counter to it at all. :heh:

Lol, Onoki was down on his knees due to his back problems,
furthermore tobirama evades alll of mizukages water bullets by FTG with utmost ease
water bullets landing on an FTG user with reflexes to tag juubito 5 times, is laughable at best

Not really, Tobirama in the manga has ET as well, yet he got defeated from kin/gin even though he was with his 6 students. Also, Tobirama can't control a lot of people, while Mu stated that the SA can't do anything to him without Onoki

Im not going to argue over fights that got off panelled
and none of ur statements help ur claim at all

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Pretty sure those around Gaara and Onoki are more than 20. :dunno:

again i dont see how this is relevant to the fight at all, you have failed to address any of my points and are just providing claims that mizukage beat the fodders, and fights that were off panelled, Lol
Lol they are still fodders, unless you think that those fodders are stronger than tobiramma then Lol,
but then again, yu would probably think that, especially seeing how much you love tobirama,
am i right hussain??? xD

 

[Beans2]

Tobirama mid diff

 

[super yang]

tobirama is a sensor, so I would assume he can immediately detect such a crude yin release that is literally hanging over his head.

from there dual edo_chain explosions ends everything :|

if we pretend the defensive natured & limited trollkage could see that coming & somehow survive to start up Joki boi, tobirama blitzes the jutsu-clone w/ hiraishin combos & seals it w/ some generic fuinjutsu or sealing, then does the same to the caster.

yeah, tobirama wins, & could do so w/o edo tensei

 

[Draegod]

tobirama is a sensor, so I would assume he can immediately detect such a crude yin release that is literally hanging over his head.

from there dual edo_chain explosions ends everything :|

if we pretend the defensive natured & limited trollkage could see that coming & somehow survive to start up Joki boi, tobirama blitzes the jutsu-clone w/ hiraishin combos & seals it w/ some generic fuinjutsu or sealing, then does the same to the caster.

yeah, tobirama wins, & could do so w/o edo tensei

Can't sense him with out physically touching the source (i.e. them).

 

[super yang]

Can't sense him with out physically touching the source (i.e. them).

I agree...so what?

edit: tobirama can detect the yin release in the mist & will take action against it.
I don't mean Tobirama will detect trollkage, he cant.

No form of sensing outside of direct contact with them will work.

I understand that, but I'm saying Tobirama will sense that a yin release is being used & nuke the battlefield.
he won't start attacking any mirages in the 1st place.

 

[Bronze]

Tobirama low diff.

 

[Draegod]

I agree...so what?

edit: he can detect the yin release in the mist & will take action against it.
I don't mean he will detect trollkage.

No form of sensing outside of direct contact with them will work.

 

[ARGUS]

why are people emphasising soo much on tobirama sensing the clam
His GKF blows the mist away (thus minimizing the genjutsu effects) and eradicates the clam
It's magnitude and AOE are huge

 

[Draegod]

why are people emphasising soo much on tobirama sensing the clam
His GKF blows the mist away (thus minimizing the genjutsu effects) and eradicates the clam
It's magnitude and AOE are huge

Edos are made immobile. and Tobirama is dealt with with in the mirage with Water guns! Plus the fact Tobirama has to be out of range as well or he kills himself (thus him telling Hiruzen and minato to get the fuq out of there before he makes it go boom!). Any other ninja can move as well, that is why he has Hashi's clone hold Obito still so he couldn't/would't avoid the explosions.

 

[ARGUS]

Edos are made immobile. and Tobirama is dealt with with in the mirage with Water guns!

@Bold - Lol no they're not.
The clam genjutsu never makes the opponent immobile Lol
And good luck to the mizukage trying to land water guns on tobirama when he has the reflexes in edo mode to tag juubito 5 times and is an FTG user which allows him to evade them with ease

Plus the fact Tobirama has to be out of range as well or he kills himself (thus him telling Hiruzen and minato to get the fuq out of there before he makes it go boom!). Any other ninja can move as well, that is why he has Hashi's clone hold Obito still so he couldn't/would't avoid the explosions.

Lol No
Friendly fire is not happening here. And tobirama is not stupid
Him dying from his own attack is just BS

And the Mizukages most is blowing away from GKF and with the genjutsus effect minimized
The clam and the mizukage would end up getting blown by GKF

 

[Draegod]

@Bold - Lol no they're not.
The clam genjutsu never makes the opponent immobile Lol
And good luck to the mizukage trying to land water guns on tobirama when he has the reflexes in edo mode to tag juubito 5 times and is an FTG user which allows him to evade them with ease


Lol No
Friendly fire is not happening here. And tobirama is not stupid
Him dying from his own attack is just BS

And the Mizukages most is blowing away from GKF and with the genjutsus effect minimized
The clam and the mizukage would end up getting blown by GKF

1. You have no idea how the 2nd makes them immobile (next time just ask). You literally know nothing on the mizu to think he is only about what you've stated.
2. When the Genjutsu is up Tobirama would never know where or when the attack is coming or where the Mizukage and his Genjutsu attacks are. Period! He has no way of knowing or reacting since he is in a genjutsu the entire fight! FTG is useless if you don't know when to use it. Simple logic.
3. The mizu can literally make them attack so far from the mizu or super close to each other. They have no idea nor can stop the mirages fooling them (don't care how smart you are).
4. How the hell will they know where to ignite the Explosion???? What stops them (mizu and clam) from also jumping out of range???? You act as though the mizu will run towards the tags and sit there and wait for it to explode. lmmfao

 

[ARGUS]

1. You have no idea how the 2nd makes them immobile (next time just ask). You literally know nothing on the mizu to think he is only about what you've stated.

Its because the mizukage cannot make tobirama immobile thats all there is to it,
seeing how even

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mizukage is never immobilising tobirama through his genjutsu, it doesnt operate in the same way as the sharingan genjutsu, due to the fact that it only changes the surroundings and creates the mirage, but it has no effect on the users reflexes and abilities,

2. When the Genjutsu is up Tobirama would never know where or when the attack is coming or where the Mizukage and his Genjutsu attacks are. Period! He has no way of knowing or reacting since he is in a genjutsu the entire fight! FTG is useless if you don't know when to use it. Simple logic.

Lol @Bold,
you lack knowledge on the genjutsu, it only creates mirages and affects the surroundings,
tobiramas abilities however would still be unaffected,
tobirama would still be able to see any oof the attacks that the mizukage might use,
his reflexes and speed are still fast enough to enable him to evade all of mizukages attacks ON FOOT
Mizukage landing his slow attacks on an FTG user that tagged juubito 5 times, is laughable at best

3. The mizu can literally make them attack so far from the mizu or super close to each other. They have no idea nor can stop the mirages fooling them (don't care how smart you are).

this makes no sense, he either attacks from close or from far,
if he attacks from far away then, the effect of his genjutsu woulld be minimised
and if he attacks from close then his clam is going to get found out rather easily and then destroyed by GKF since the clam as well as the mizukage would be within its range,

4. How the hell will they know where to ignite the Explosion???? What stops them (mizu and clam) from also jumping out of range???? You act as though the mizu will run towards the tags and sit there and wait for it to explode. lmmfao

Lol the clam is immobile its not moving, let alone jumping out of the range Lol
and the mizukage going away from the real clam is rather stupid as well, since the outcome of the jutsu would result in atleast one of the two entities getting blown up,

the starting distance is 45m, not to mention that the mizukages clam produces the mirages itself therefore it cant be too far away from the mirages, otherwise the genjutsus effects would be quite minimal

which is why Tobiraam can use GKF to atleast blow away all the mist thats geneerated from the clam, and if the clam doesnt get caught (which is extremely unlikely due to

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), then tobirama can simply use the jutsu again to eradicate the clam thrrough its large AOE
Tobirama can allso use his KB and get them to sppread out which would not only enhance his use of FTG but would also make it easier for him to destroy the clam

 

[Blunt]

Tobirama wins.

 

[KidGamer65]

@Kifflom: Lol? How can he see the Mizukage's attacks when EVERYTHING related the the trollkage that he sees is a mirage? If a mirage trollkage is all he can see, how will he see the attacks of the real one? They aren't going to magically appear just because.

And I'm 99% sure he wasn't saying that the Genjutsu immobilizes them, should have been obvious.

 

[ARGUS]

@Kifflom: Lol? How can he see the Mizukage's attacks when EVERYTHING related the the trollkage that he sees is a mirage? If a mirage trollkage is all he can see, how will he see the attacks of the real one? They aren't going to magically appear just because.

Like i said, he can minimise the effects of the genjutsu compeletely since GKF would compleetly blow the mist away which is what causes the mirage to begin with,
and tobirama can then just use GKF to eradicate the clam again,

furthermore, if one cant locate the clam, then to counter the genjutsu, you need the AOE to destroy the clam,
and with 2 edos allowing tobirama to use GKF, he certainly has the capability to destroy the clam,

moreover,, the clam executes the mirage therefore it has to be close to the mirage that it creates otherwise the effeects of the genjutsu are minimal, not to mention that the mizukage himself states

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and as for the mizukages attacks, mizukage and the clam itself are a mirage however things such as kunais or attacks themselves are still the same, and so are tobiramas reflexes and abilities, therefore enabling him to evade the attacks with FTG,
unless you think that tobirama cant dodge mizukages attacks Lol

furthermore if the mizukage really wants to attack tobirama then his only chance is to attack him from very close distances, seeing how apart from joki boy, he doesnt have any long range jutsu, meaning that he would be quite close to the clam meaning that there is a big chance he would end up getting blown up by GKF

And I'm 99% sure he wasn't saying that the Genjutsu immobilizes them, should have been obvious.

Lol he did, its his words not mine, he still has no ways of immobilising tobirama

Edos are made immobile

1. You have no idea how the 2nd makes them immobile

 

[KidGamer65]

Like i said, he can minimise the effects of the genjutsu compeletely since GKF would compleetly blow the mist away which is what causes the mirage to begin with,
and tobirama can then just use GKF to eradicate the clam again,

Except that has nothing to do with my reply. You stated that Tobirama will still be able to see and evade his attacks even under the mirage. I asked how, I didn't ask how he can stop the mist and thus, the mirage.

But the clam continuously secretes Mist, so blowing away the Mist isn't going to help. Just how trying to drain a tub that is being constantly filled up makes no sense.

furthermore, if one cant locate the clam, then to counter the genjutsu, you need the AOE to destroy the clam,
and with 2 edos allowing tobirama to use GKF, he certainly has the capability to destroy the clam,

Given the area they are in (SA battlefield). Gojo isn't cutting it as he can literally get as far away as he needs to, and he can evade Gojo, which is even easier since Tobirama will never be aiming right at him since he doesn't know where the clam he is. And no the clam isn't immobile. Not only would that make no sense (as then the SA would have been able to aim in the same spot), manga clearly shows that it moved.

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moreover,, the clam executes the mirage therefore it has to be close to the mirage that it creates otherwise the effeects of the genjutsu are minimal, not to mention that the mizukage himself states

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False. The clam doesn't have to be anywhere near the mirages as its a battlefield wide Genjutsu.

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Not to mention there is literally no evidence supporting the bold.

"Hide behind" only means the clam is hidden due to the mirages. Which is indeed a fact. Nothing was ever said about distance.

That'd defeat the whole purpose of the jutsu anyway. Lol.

and as for the mizukages attacks, mizukage and the clam itself are a mirage however things such as kunais or attacks themselves are still the same, and so are tobiramas reflexes and abilities, therefore enabling him to evade the attacks with FTG,
unless you think that tobirama cant dodge mizukages attacks Lol

The Mizukage's attacks are a mirage, you've just admitted that, so how in the world is Tobirama going to evade an attack he can't see coming? Lol. He's not. Its as simple as that. No one cares about Tobirama's attacks here, I'm only talking about Trollkage's attacks. If he can't see the real attack coming, then how will he evade it?

Lol he did, its his words not mine

He said he can immobilize them. You said that he isn't doing it with the Genjutsu, and he said that you don't even know how they'd do it, meaning he was clearly talking about something else, as your first guess was wrong.

 

[ARGUS]

Given the area they are in (SA battlefield). Gojo isn't cutting it as he can literally get as far away as he needs to, and he can evade Gojo, which is even easier since Tobirama will never be aiming right at him since he doesn't know where the clam he is.

GKF will blow away the mist,

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, big enough to blow the mist away and minimise the effects of genjutsu therefore allow tobirama to locate the clam

and the AOE of the jutsu is huge, whether the mizukage evades is good and all, but the clam is getting destroyed,
and yes its Immobile,

And no the clam isn't immobile. Not only would that make no sense (as then the SA would have been able to aim in the same spot), manga clearly shows that it moved.

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This is wrong, and doesnt correspond to what you have stated,
the real clam was never shown until it was located
the clam that was changing was all a mirage,
Mirage =/= Real
i stated that the real clam is immobile and you have not proved me wrong there,

False. The clam doesn't have to be anywhere near the mirages as its a battlefield wide Genjutsu.

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Not to mention there is literally no evidence supporting the bold.

"Hide behind" only means the clam is hidden due to the mirages. Which is indeed a fact. Nothing was ever said about distance.

That'd defeat the whole purpose of the jutsu anyway. Lol.

Lol No,
the more the mist, the more the genjutsu,
the further the clam is, the more minimal the effect of the genjutsu, its common sense,
the real clam has to be near the mirage, if not then the genjutsu is barely affecting tobirama, meaning that GKF would most likely seal the deal,

The Mizukage's attacks are a mirage, you've just admitted that, so how in the world is Tobirama going to evade an attack he can't see coming? Lol. He's not. Its as simple as that. No one cares about Tobirama's attacks here, I'm only talking about Trollkage's attacks. If he can't see the real attack coming, then how will he evade it?

Lol I have not admitted that at all
and you are wrong, about the mizukages attacks themselves being a mirage,
there is no proof whatsoever on this matter

mizukage has to attack tobirama from his real body, and whether his genjutsu affects the surroundings or not, it still doesnt affect physical things such as his attacks

Tobiramas eye sight and reflexes are still the same, and the mist also doesnt affect the users eye sight not to mention that the mirage doesnt make the attacks invisible, nor does it effects the users abilties, i dont know where u are getting this from ,
water bullets range is quite minimal, with tobiramaas abilities still the same, he evades it

He said he can immobilize them. You said that he isn't doing it with the Genjutsu, and he said that you don't even know how they'd do it, meaning he was clearly talking about something else, as your first guess was wrong.

Lol he said immobilise, what other method does he have of immobilising him,
because joki boy, and taijutsu is certainly not helping him IMMOBILISING tobirama,
what else could he be referring to, not to mention that he didnt deny my claim of taking it as genjutsu

 

[KidGamer65]

GKF will blow away the mist,

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, big enough to blow the mist away and minimise the effects of genjutsu therefore allow tobirama to locate the clam

You pretty much already said everything here, stuff that has been replied to.

But the clam continuously secretes Mist, so blowing away the Mist isn't going to help. Just how trying to drain a tub that is being constantly filled up makes no sense.

Gojo blowing it away doesn't help since its continuously being filled up.

and the AOE of the jutsu is huge, whether the mizukage evades is good and all, but the clam is getting destroyed,
and yes its Immobile,

Huge=/=Covering the whole battlefield, which trollkage has as ground to evade the blast.

This is wrong, and doesnt correspond to what you have stated,
the real clam was never shown until it was located
the clam that was changing was all a mirage,
Mirage =/= Real
i stated that the real clam is immobile and you have not proved me wrong there,

Once again the manga disagrees.

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So no, you are clearly wrong. Unless you think the clam stayed in that spot, its mobile.

Lol No,
the more the mist, the more the genjutsu,
the further the clam is, the more minimal the effect of the genjutsu, its common sense,
the real clam has to be near the mirage, if not then the genjutsu is barely affecting tobirama, meaning that GKF would most likely seal the deal,

I'm waiting for something to substantiate your claims besides the baseless claim of "common sense". Manga shows and states that its a battlefield wide Genjutsu. No matter where the Shinobi were during their fight against Trollkage, the effects for the Genjutsu were the same. "More Mist=More Genjutsu" doesn't even begin to make sense, pretty much due to the "More Genjutsu" part. Lol. There is Genjutsu, or there is no Genjutsu. All or nothing. Simple as that.

Get scans and not baseless assumptions.

Lol I have not admitted that at all
and you are wrong, about the mizukages attacks themselves being a mirage,
there is no proof whatsoever on this matter

Now you are the one who needs to use common sense. If the Mizukage is a mirage, anything he does with his body will be a mirage too.

mizukage has to attack tobirama from his real body, and whether his genjutsu affects the surroundings or not, it still doesnt affect physical things such as his attacks

So it doesn't effect physical things, but it affects his body, which is a physical thing. So he'll see mirages of the Mizukage, but not his attacks? Lol, what? Obviously he has to attack from his real body, but Tobirama can't see his real body as the clam Genjutsu is hiding it.

So now, why would Tobirama be able to see his attacks and evade even though the real Mizukage is completely hidden by the mirage?

Tobiramas eye sight and reflexes are still the same, and the mist also doesnt affect the users eye sight

Never said it did.

not to mention that the mirage doesnt make the attacks invisible, nor does it effects the users abilties, i dont know where u are getting this from ,

From the fact that the Mizukage is rendered invisible during the mirage Which is in the manga. What's funny is that you claimed Draegod lacks knowledge on the Genjutsu, despite your posts showing that you are the one who lacks knowledge. Lol

-Genjutsu starts.

-Real Mizukage and his Clam are hidden.

-Mirages of the two are produced.

So, how will Tobirama see his incoming attack and evade when he can't see the real Mizukage to begin with.

water bullets range is quite minimal, with tobiramaas abilities still the same, he evades it

He gets a bullet put in his head.

Lol he said immobilise, what other method does he have of immobilising him,
because joki boy, and taijutsu is certainly not helping him IMMOBILISING tobirama,
what else could he be referring to, not to mention that he didnt deny my claim of taking it as genjutsu

I'm just going to leave this here.

1. You have no idea how the 2nd makes them immobile (next time just ask). You literally know nothing on the mizu to think he is only about what you've stated.

 

[Benjamin King]

I'm pretty sure Finger Sensing functions through vibrations sent and received between the user and who ever is in range; thus making it a physical sensing, which works on the Mizukage's Genjutsu. That being said, Tobirama takes it easily.​

 

[RicardoA]

Tobirama wins, high-diff.

Imo he can sense the clam with his finger. After that he'll have no trouble keeping up with the Mizukage.
Using ET he can easily destroy the clam and i'm sure even an Hydrification Jutsu user would be be left in a miserable state after being hit by so many explosions as well.