2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + more

ItachiStyle

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2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + more

The 2nd Mizukage up against the following Shinobi:
- The 3rd Raikage
- The 4th Raikage
- The Gold and Silver Brothers
- Hanzo
- Tsunade
- Guy
- Sasori
- Chiyo
- Kakuzu
- Hidan
- Kisame
- Shizune
- Asuma
- The remaining 7 swordsman

Start the fight from 100 feet away. Assume this gives the Mizukage time to begin his genjutsu. Nobody has advanced knowledge of anybodies techniques.

Who wins. I have the 2nd Mizukage taking this, due to the inability of anyone to see through the genjutsu, and due to his other abilities which are hard to counter. Within the first few minutes these guys will all attack each other anyway, thinking that they're the 2nd Mizukage. His hydrified body is also tough to hurt or counter.
 

Brother Numpsay

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

This joke only works for Ten Ten
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ItachiStyle

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

If you disagree, please explain to me how they beat the 2nd Mizukage...
 

Brother Numpsay

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

If you disagree, please explain to me how they beat the 2nd Mizukage...

My anwer would be base on this question:

Is it Mizukage vs all of them at the same time?

Or

1v1(each)?
 

ItachiStyle

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

All at the same time (subject to the parameters in the opening post). And please, none of this "Sasori is immune to genjutsu" stuff... there's no evidence of that at all, let alone a mirage genjutsu that doesn't require eye contact to activate, and which can even fool sensors.
 

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

kinkaku: hey!
2nd mizukage: what?
*mizukage sealed in amber pot for eternity*
 

ItachiStyle

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

Boy, you don't even know anything about the Gold and Silver brothers. They don't have the amber pot, that was one of the treasures retained by the Cloud. Bet you feel dumb now.

Plus do they even know the 2nd Mizukage's name? I doubt it.
 
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Brother Numpsay

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

All at the same time

Then whatever I say would not get through to you, you are convince that your conclusion is 100 percent
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ItachiStyle

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

I am a man of reason. Explain to me, with logic, how they win, and I will be suitably impressed.
 

Joki

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

This would work as a troll thread if you listed a bunch of people who couldn't get around his genjutsu, for example some fodder like Itachi. But you used people who actually have strategies that could see his clam, like Hirudora or Ibuse's poison or Water Dome or iron sand etc. So he would probably lose. Pretty fast.
 

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

This would work as a troll thread if you listed a bunch of people who couldn't get around his genjutsu, for example some fodder like Itachi. But you used people who actually have strategies that could see his clam, like Hirudora or Ibuse's poison or Water Dome or iron sand etc. So he would probably lose. Pretty fast.

"Fodder like Itachi". And you're calling me the troll?

The Ibuse's can fill an entire battlefield with poison in one shot? Really? When did it demo that ability?

We have no evidence Iron Sand can find the clam, it doesn't automatically work like Gaara, just because it's sand based. That's not how feats work. The 3rd Kazekage is also strictly limited in the amount of iron sand he carries, and since he's now a puppet I have no reason to believe he or Sasori can "feel" the sand like Gaara's (which also required his 3rd eye), we don't even know Iron Sand can do any of this, and logically I don't see how it would (it's controlled via magnetism and so far is only used for transforming into shapes, whereas Gaara seems to mentally control his sand, and can feel it).

How does Water Dome stop the genjutsu? The range of the genjutsu is battlefield in size, whereas the dome size is limited, and the Mizukage doesn't need to breathe... Kisame will also kill some of his team doing this (assuming they don't kill him first). Remember also, nobody gets advanced knowledge of each others techs, so how is Kisame (or anyone else) supposed to know it's a genjutsu? Or that water dome would even help?

How does Daytime Tiger stop it? You do understand that since they'll all be under a genjutsu, they'll probably kill each other if they pull out techniques like this. It'll be "look, it's him!" DAYTIME TIGER! Oops... I just killed Kisame.
 
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Joki

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

"Fodder like Itachi". And you're calling me the troll?

The Ibuse's can fill an entire battlefield with poison in one shot? Really? When did it demo that ability?

We have no evidence Iron Sand can find the clam, it doesn't automatically work like Gaara, just because it's sand based. That's not how feats work. The 3rd Kazekage is also strictly limited in the amount of iron sand he carries, and since he's now a puppet I have no reason to believe he or Sasori can "feel" the sand like Gaara's (which also required his 3rd eye), we don't even know Iron Sand can do any of this, and logically I don't see how it would (it's controlled via magnetism and so far is only used for transforming into shapes, whereas Gaara seems to mentally control his sand, and can feel it).

How does Water Dome stop the genjutsu? The range of the genjutsu is battlefield in size, whereas the dome size is limited, and the Mizukage doesn't need to breathe... Kisame will also kill some of his team doing this (assuming they don't kill him first). Remember also, nobody gets advanced knowledge of each others techs, so how is Kisame (or anyone else) supposed to know it's a genjutsu? Or that water dome would even help?

How does Daytime Tiger stop it? You do understand that since they'll all be under a genjutsu, they'll probably kill each other if they pull out techniques like this. It'll be "look, it's him!" DAYTIME TIGER! Oops... I just killed Kisame.
I was talking about the character. And yes he is indeed fodder in the face of 2nd Mizukage.

Seems like you don't realize how the mizukage's tech works, he doesn't disappear to a different dimension while they look for the clam, he's still on the battlefield. The fighters just can't see him there. Hirudora would still hit him with its massive AoE, and water dome would cover the whole battlefield and drain him of chakra even if he couldn't be seen, and Kisame can actually sense the chakra.

Yeah, sacrifices can be made, not only did Kisame actually tank a head on Hirudora before so that wouldn't actually happen, even if Gai did need to use it, even if people on his team died so would Mizukage so it wouldn't actually matter much since they would win.
 

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

I was talking about the character. And yes he is indeed fodder in the face of 2nd Mizukage.
He's got the oh-so-cheap magic eyes, in the face of which no technique is sufficient. I didn't pick any Uchiha against the Mizukage for a reason, because they'd probably have no trouble seeing through his illusions

Seems like you don't realize how the mizukage's tech works, he doesn't disappear to a different dimension while they look for the clam, he's still on the battlefield.
Yes... a very large battlefield... so large in scale is the illusion that an entire division worth of troops could not find him despite him telling them how his genjutsu worked, and giving them hints on how to beat it. That is impressive, and not to be easily trumped.

The fighters just can't see him there. Hirudora would still hit him with its massive AoE, and water dome would cover the whole battlefield and drain him of chakra even if he couldn't be seen, and Kisame can actually sense the chakra.
1) If they blindly attack massive spaces, they hit each other.
2) You have no way of knowing that the area of their attacks is sufficient to hit him. His illusion covers an entire battlefield, to the point a whole division of thousands can't find him. Let's not undersell the size of the illusion we're talking about.
3) I don't think you can assume Kisame can "sense" him, since the sensors (with better sensory abilities) couldn't sense him through the illusion.
4) None of them will even know there is a genjutsu in effect right off, nor how it works. Once they do, they'll be trapped in it, and they'll be killing each other (thinking they're attacking the Mizukage). Why would Kisame open the fight with a technique that hinders (or kills) his team mates, before he even knows what he's up against? And by the time he does, won't be be dead?

Yeah, sacrifices can be made, not only did Kisame actually tank a head on Hirudora before so that wouldn't actually happen, even if Gai did need to use it, even if people on his team died so would Mizukage so it wouldn't actually matter much since they would win.

The Mizukage is going to make them think it's him, but attack each other. Meanwhile he'll probably be safely behind a mountain somewhere far off. This assumption that they can just blindly flail and hit him (while under the effect of a genjutsu which will be misleading them!) is absurd.
 

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

He's got the oh-so-cheap magic eyes, in the face of which no technique is sufficient. I didn't pick any Uchiha against the Mizukage for a reason, because they'd probably have no trouble seeing through his illusions
Well there's your proof that you don't understand how it works if you don't think Itachi would be fodderized by it.


Yes... a very large battlefield... so large in scale is the illusion that an entire division worth of troops could not find him despite him telling them how his genjutsu worked, and giving them hints on how to beat it. That is impressive, and not to be easily trumped.
Including multiple sensor ninja. Which proves Itachi wouldn't actually be able to do anything. Also, none of the fodder army had a large scale technique like Hirudora.
1) If they blindly attack massive spaces, they hit each other.
2) You have no way of knowing that the area of their attacks is sufficient to hit him. His illusion covers an entire battlefield, to the point a whole division of thousands can't find him. Let's not undersell the size of the illusion we're talking about.
No shinobi used an attack on the scale of Hirudora, and you didn't have the entire battlefield using jutsu on every sq inch of land either. They were literally throwing shuriken and kunai at the mirage. And unless you're saying Mizukage runs away from the battle completely then that won't actually work, and if he does, he won't be able to fight let alone kill all of the people on the other team, let alone not run out of chakra or lose to BFR.
3) I don't think you can assume Kisame can "sense" him, since the sensors (with better sensory abilities) couldn't sense him through the illusion.
Well he should be able to feel his presence in the water since even if he's invisible to him he pushes against the water. But I'll accept that, I'm glad you agree Itachi couldn't actually see him.
4) None of them will even know there is a genjutsu in effect right off, nor how it works. Once they do, they'll be trapped in it, and they'll be killing each other (thinking they're attacking the Mizukage). Why would Kisame open the fight with a technique that hinders (or kills) his team mates, before he even knows what he's up against? And by the time he does, won't be be dead?
No he won't, I didn't say they would win instantly the minute the battle starts by using their strongest techs right off the bat. Problem is, that is potentially another double standard young ItachiStyle. Knowledge goes both ways, Mizukage wouldn't even have any idea who to kill let alone who has what techniques. He won't randomly say hey, that's Gai and Kisame the 2 people who are potentially the greatest threats, let's kill them off instantly, because he doesn't even know they're a threat. Everyone is the same threat here that Shizune is in Mizukage's eyes.

The Mizukage is going to make them think it's him, but attack each other. Meanwhile he'll probably be safely behind a mountain somewhere far off. This assumption that they can just blindly flail and hit him (while under the effect of a genjutsu which will be misleading them!) is absurd.
When did he ever do that? He made a mirage but never used that level of genjutsu. If he could do that, it would be cool though as it even further supports Itachi would get fodderized by him but hey it's also good this team still has answers to it so everyone wins.
 

ItachiStyle

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

Well there's your proof that you don't understand how it works if you don't think Itachi would be fodderized by it.
Just calling Itachi "fodder" makes it clear you're trolling. Itachi can see through genjutsu, in fact he's got the most powerful, diverse, long range and impressive genjutsu we've seen of any character in the manga really. Again, not a serious remark.

Including multiple sensor ninja. Which proves Itachi wouldn't actually be able to do anything. Also, none of the fodder army had a large scale technique like Hirudora.
The thing that is infuriating about the Sharingan is that it can do things other sensory abilities don't seem able to. For instance, the sensors can't spot the wood clones... but Madara can. Madara looks at Naruto, and knows he's a clone. The Sharingan let's you see chakra as colours, it's a different sort of ability. That's not to mention that Itachi sees through basically every other genjutsu anyone tries on him. Sensors powers work differently... they can do some things the Sharingan can't do, but they're not "visual" powers... so once a sensor is trapped in a genjutsu for instance, they can't get out of it by virtue of being a sensor (something we've seen evidence for too). There's plenty of other reasons to assume this wouldn't have worked on the Uchiha (for one thing, I doubt Madara would be so feared if a clam genjutsu can beat him), and plenty of reason to believe being a sensor isn't enough (for one thing, the sensors can't find him in the manga, but can right after the illusion is dismissed. Mu was a sensor too, and would have had no problem killing the Mizukage if his best tech was useless).

No shinobi used an attack on the scale of Hirudora, and you didn't have the entire battlefield using jutsu on every sq inch of land either.
Hirundora doesn't atomise everything in the area. All the Mizukage has to do is stand behind a mountain in the distance. He's also able to hydrify, so I'm not sure what sort of damage he's likely to take from this indirect hit from long distance (and which Guy can't do for long before he's exhausted, and during which, Guy will be constantly attacked by people who think he's the Mizukage).

They were literally throwing shuriken and kunai at the mirage. And unless you're saying Mizukage runs away from the battle completely then that won't actually work, and if he does, he won't be able to fight let alone kill all of the people on the other team, let alone not run out of chakra or lose to BFR.
He was nowhere near Gaara and the thousands of troops, so I don't see why he needs to run. And we see them spread out quite alot (some are on mountains and rock formations in the distance, nowhere near where Onoki and Gaara eventually find him).

He won't randomly say hey, that's Gai and Kisame the 2 people who are potentially the greatest threats, let's kill them off instantly, because he doesn't even know they're a threat. Everyone is the same threat here that Shizune is in Mizukage's eyes.
Sure. But why is that a problem? Again, he's nowhere near them, and apparently line of sight is not necessary for him to use the genjutsu. He can be off behind a mountain somewhere, while they all kill each other as he creates illusions and makes them fight each other.

When did he ever do that? He made a mirage but never used that level of genjutsu. If he could do that, it would be cool though as it even further supports Itachi would get fodderized by him but hey it's also good this team still has answers to it so everyone wins.

This bizarre obsession you have with trying to prove Itachi is helpless against him is disturbing.

Go and take a look at all the corpses. They didn't die because of him, he was nowhere near them. They've been killed by their own weapons. He's not even armed. When the genjutsu is ended, we see a cloud far off in the distance and the shinobi with Gaara saying "that way" before heading that way (there are mountains in the way too), so either he can attack through the genjutsu, or his attacks are so long range it doesn't even matter. My reading is they killed each other, trying to kill him (and with the mirages they didn't realise they were attacking each other)
 
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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

They win due to Sasori not being able to be affected by Genjutsu. He doesn't have a brain that could be affected by the Genjutsu, meaning that he'd likely be able to handle this by himself ;)

If not for him, the Mizukage wouldn't be able to beat the 3rd and 4th Raikage, as he simply doesn't have anything to take them out. In the end, I believe they would be able to take him, due to them having immense reflexes and speed, likely allowing them to attack the Mizukage back if he tries to take them out, which again, wouldn't really be possible since he can't get through the Raiton armor.

At least, that's how I believe this will go :D
 

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m


The clam's genjutsu is casted on all the battlefield , it's not a visual, nor a sound Genjutsu , so everyone on the battle field can be trapped in the illusion.

Genjutsu works by manipulating the chakra flow in the victim's brain, allowing the user to change the way the victim sees/hears/smells/feels things. However, that won't be a problem since Sasori is essentially a brainless puppet.
 

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

Sasori does have a brain :D
He doesn't, the only living part of him left was the core in his chest ;)

(Not trying to insult Sasori btw, the guy's one of my favorite characters, and is certainly very intelligent :D )
 

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

Team 2 wins lol
 

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Re: 2nd Mizukage v.s 3rd and 4th Raikage, Gold & Silver Bros, Hanzo, Tsunade, Guy + m

Then how does he think ? :confused:
Not sure, but it somehow revolves around the core :y

If he actually had a real brain, he wouldn't have been able to switch his consciousness between other puppets :D
 
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