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Now Azu just has to draw it, to make it canon
Konoha Tavern - RP General Chat Discussion
- Thread starter Zatanna
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Alright, I've caught up on everything in here. I see people had some concerns voiced and there were some back and forth going on, which bothered me, and I can see that people are rightfully discontent. The intention was always to train the new team to work on things independently and them let them run the bulk of the game with me signing off on anything major if needed, but things have slowed down again and almost died out if not doing just that over the last month or two. I see some of the main concerns are, as it tends to be whenever the RP stalls, the Customs section and the NW narrative. Both areas by nature are where most of the creativity within the game is shown and is why people want to RP: a place to create their abilities and a place to use them. I'll speak a little more on possible changes besides just adding new people every time in a bit, but I need to point out why these areas tend to die out.
With customs, it takes some time to check most submissions. It's not as simple as looking and immediately editing to an approved/declined note. A lot of times, second opinions might be needed, more thought needs to be taken to decide if it works, various rule threads need to be referenced depending on the ability, and sometimes, other customs have to be looked at and that's sometimes all done for most posts. It tends to end up the role that creates a lot of burnout because most people that check customs are initially eager to do so and it eventually leads to exhaust. Over the entirety of the RP's lifespan, it's been a consistent thing which is why we always try to have as many members of the team checking customs to make sure it doesn't feel like one person is taking the bulk of it. Different methods to do this has come up over the years. Reducing the number of submissions, assigning multiple people to just customs, pointing them in areas I think they worked best, etc but it usually still leads to the burn out. This time around, I decided to let them split the fields up to what they felt comfortable but reminded them to not do too much or it'll cause to burn out since my role now was mostly setting them up to run the majority of the game themselves. Unfortunately, it didn't work out this time either as the workload shifted too much on some and not evenly.
The Ninja World is one where it's tricky to tell exactly how things will play out until they happen; while members can tell you if they will dislike a concept before it's implemented, you never run know if something will be received well until it happens. In the past, some stories were well received before they came out while some weren't and barely were engaged with. We, Drackos and I, would take feedback into mind when deciding the scale/scope of the events within the narrative. One that came to mind was the length of the Underworld event which lasted many months and consciously trying to reduce the time of singular arc events. In regards to the recent/current event, it stemmed from discussions when the site's activity rose again and people seemingly didn't want a full reset to the story but wanted less Gods in play. Since there were 3 Delegates active, we decided to make the story moving forward related to those 3 Factions interactions and possible wars, adding Faction related prizes and abilities eventually. The event that just passed was originally a plan I had for my Faction years ago that grew when the game restarted as a way to introduce the other factions, giving members a short thing to do while the real story was being drafted. A problem that it presented was it being a flashback so people felt it wasn't important, and it really wasn't in the grand scheme. I think it also may have launched too late in the time frame for it to be effective. Had it started when the game first came back, we could have been in new, current game arc/Rifts now.
I'm not blaming anyone or shifting blame from anyone for the game dying again since there are many reasons and it doesn't actually help anything but poor relations. There are some things that can be done in the immediate to help things speed up. As L said earlier, they had their permissions updated to be able to check bios and do other stuff they didn't have access to here. With them being the only two left, it's still not as sustainable as I'd like and still too much work on them. More active hands and perhaps new ways to do stuff that lets this happen quicker.
In terms of the NW, I think we can all agree the event wasn't liked and will probably be scrapped asap. Outside of just Rifts, more stuff should be done in the NW to offer things to do, though I am most curious on what approach members would rather see there. A continuation of the era ( WSE-setting with different storyline unrelated to Drackos' Void Saga ), a reset ( WSE setting with a blank slate in regards to the game but character abilities remain the same ), a hard reboot ( WSE with blank slate in regards to story and characters, starting at low ranks in regards to the NW specifically ), a hard revamp ( complete wipe of the current game setting and redesign of NW era, similar to the Village Era and the current WSE, and complete new rules and implementation ) , etc. There should be more than one person working on the story to ensure other eyes and thoughts are always present.
And most importantly, some of the content of the previous pages annoyed me. I've already spoken to some people but for transparency, under no circumstances should members speak to one another with aggressive, insulting language especially over a difference of opinion in site direction. I understand tempers flare up and we get angry, but insults and shots should not be posted anywhere in the RP forums. Whether the members are Mods, Sensei, Members, Admins, etc. Bottom line is no one is above those rules and if I have to, full access to the RP section will be barred for anyone breaking these rules moving forward. Let's figure out better ways to keep the game running more than pointing fingers at why it's dying.
With customs, it takes some time to check most submissions. It's not as simple as looking and immediately editing to an approved/declined note. A lot of times, second opinions might be needed, more thought needs to be taken to decide if it works, various rule threads need to be referenced depending on the ability, and sometimes, other customs have to be looked at and that's sometimes all done for most posts. It tends to end up the role that creates a lot of burnout because most people that check customs are initially eager to do so and it eventually leads to exhaust. Over the entirety of the RP's lifespan, it's been a consistent thing which is why we always try to have as many members of the team checking customs to make sure it doesn't feel like one person is taking the bulk of it. Different methods to do this has come up over the years. Reducing the number of submissions, assigning multiple people to just customs, pointing them in areas I think they worked best, etc but it usually still leads to the burn out. This time around, I decided to let them split the fields up to what they felt comfortable but reminded them to not do too much or it'll cause to burn out since my role now was mostly setting them up to run the majority of the game themselves. Unfortunately, it didn't work out this time either as the workload shifted too much on some and not evenly.
The Ninja World is one where it's tricky to tell exactly how things will play out until they happen; while members can tell you if they will dislike a concept before it's implemented, you never run know if something will be received well until it happens. In the past, some stories were well received before they came out while some weren't and barely were engaged with. We, Drackos and I, would take feedback into mind when deciding the scale/scope of the events within the narrative. One that came to mind was the length of the Underworld event which lasted many months and consciously trying to reduce the time of singular arc events. In regards to the recent/current event, it stemmed from discussions when the site's activity rose again and people seemingly didn't want a full reset to the story but wanted less Gods in play. Since there were 3 Delegates active, we decided to make the story moving forward related to those 3 Factions interactions and possible wars, adding Faction related prizes and abilities eventually. The event that just passed was originally a plan I had for my Faction years ago that grew when the game restarted as a way to introduce the other factions, giving members a short thing to do while the real story was being drafted. A problem that it presented was it being a flashback so people felt it wasn't important, and it really wasn't in the grand scheme. I think it also may have launched too late in the time frame for it to be effective. Had it started when the game first came back, we could have been in new, current game arc/Rifts now.
I'm not blaming anyone or shifting blame from anyone for the game dying again since there are many reasons and it doesn't actually help anything but poor relations. There are some things that can be done in the immediate to help things speed up. As L said earlier, they had their permissions updated to be able to check bios and do other stuff they didn't have access to here. With them being the only two left, it's still not as sustainable as I'd like and still too much work on them. More active hands and perhaps new ways to do stuff that lets this happen quicker.
In terms of the NW, I think we can all agree the event wasn't liked and will probably be scrapped asap. Outside of just Rifts, more stuff should be done in the NW to offer things to do, though I am most curious on what approach members would rather see there. A continuation of the era ( WSE-setting with different storyline unrelated to Drackos' Void Saga ), a reset ( WSE setting with a blank slate in regards to the game but character abilities remain the same ), a hard reboot ( WSE with blank slate in regards to story and characters, starting at low ranks in regards to the NW specifically ), a hard revamp ( complete wipe of the current game setting and redesign of NW era, similar to the Village Era and the current WSE, and complete new rules and implementation ) , etc. There should be more than one person working on the story to ensure other eyes and thoughts are always present.
And most importantly, some of the content of the previous pages annoyed me. I've already spoken to some people but for transparency, under no circumstances should members speak to one another with aggressive, insulting language especially over a difference of opinion in site direction. I understand tempers flare up and we get angry, but insults and shots should not be posted anywhere in the RP forums. Whether the members are Mods, Sensei, Members, Admins, etc. Bottom line is no one is above those rules and if I have to, full access to the RP section will be barred for anyone breaking these rules moving forward. Let's figure out better ways to keep the game running more than pointing fingers at why it's dying.
If customs is what ultimately is the problem, why not decrease the amount one can submit? To like 2 per cycle. And then maybe with less to check it could lead to faster cycles and in the long run average out. More or less the same amount of work just spread out.
The Big Boss
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any thoughts @Red-Robin ?
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I am against any hard reset of abilities. I'm finally getting motion now that stuff can be unlocked via kumi. With that in place it isnt too hard for members to unlock a strong foundational bio and they can always create their own customs or purchase them from others. There are still things most people want to buy so spending a minutes typying out a training session for 1.5k kumi has its value.
As for the story, I kind of dislike it for the same reasons why I dislike Boruto. It was drastic change to the established lore, narrative, and themes of the Naruto story. It lost its charm. But on the other hand, thats not really something recent. The RP has been heading that way for years. Its hardly recognizable compared to how it started. Overall thats not one of my biggest issues. If a person doesnt like the story, they can just RP on their own and create their own narratives and still submit missions for Kumi. Perhaps moving in that direction may be whats best too. Like instead of creating special unique missions, narratives, etc just create a rubric for things like that. And the staff would just have to check them. For example say somebody wanted to add the one of the 7 mist swords to their bio. Just have rubric of what narrative they'd have to create to get it. Stuff like that wouldnt rely on staff playing NPCs. Or is somebody wants to bypass an attribute cap, there could be rubrics for those. Instead of thinking of a whole new chapter for the overall story, just create mission rubrics and let people play them out.
Instead of an reset, I think it may be better to embrace the endgame state and prioritize players being able to build their bios, unlock abilities, etc. And going back to making everything purchaseable with kumi and the core ability system was a step in the right direction. Basically an endgame sandbox of sorts is what I think is needed.
As for the story, I kind of dislike it for the same reasons why I dislike Boruto. It was drastic change to the established lore, narrative, and themes of the Naruto story. It lost its charm. But on the other hand, thats not really something recent. The RP has been heading that way for years. Its hardly recognizable compared to how it started. Overall thats not one of my biggest issues. If a person doesnt like the story, they can just RP on their own and create their own narratives and still submit missions for Kumi. Perhaps moving in that direction may be whats best too. Like instead of creating special unique missions, narratives, etc just create a rubric for things like that. And the staff would just have to check them. For example say somebody wanted to add the one of the 7 mist swords to their bio. Just have rubric of what narrative they'd have to create to get it. Stuff like that wouldnt rely on staff playing NPCs. Or is somebody wants to bypass an attribute cap, there could be rubrics for those. Instead of thinking of a whole new chapter for the overall story, just create mission rubrics and let people play them out.
Instead of an reset, I think it may be better to embrace the endgame state and prioritize players being able to build their bios, unlock abilities, etc. And going back to making everything purchaseable with kumi and the core ability system was a step in the right direction. Basically an endgame sandbox of sorts is what I think is needed.
Alternative
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I think this is such a hard topic to face, just because if you decide to strip people of their abilities or reset the whole NW back to a village era or something, you risk alienating a large proportion of the past and present player base who thought about coming back or want to do something. Nevertheless, I think the NW absolutely needs to be made more compact, or easier to navigate, maybe revising the rules about NW travel and whatnot to make it easier to gather at certain places, or organize an event...
One idea I did have is perhaps maybe have an application for player-ran events, essentially pitching mini plots and storylines that can either coincide with the current lore, or standalone, that we can participate in? Say, I want to run a mini tournament with some constraints, and players can roleplay the story out for a prize, which would be separate from the ongoing plot so players can use their second biography or whatever, and a pre-determined prize that mods approve on, whatever it may be. It doesn't need to have a prize, but its just an example to get players motivated.
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Right so I've been a bit busy irl myself, but I did read this the day of it posting and been thinking about what to say or how I feel about things right now. So, to put it quite simply- I think right now, I believe the option of overhauling the current NW would be the best bet. Not touching abilities, but I find the Warring States Era more appealing personally, but with a bit of a connotation. That is that, while the going back to the village system would be a bit more intriguing, I don't think we have the player count to establish going back to it. I think I mix of the two, similar to how the current story would have focused on three factions would be of better benefit, but instead of trying to pick up someone else's story, aka the God storyline - we reign it even further back away from it.
I liked Drackos' story, but I believe without some of his notes for what he intended for future arcs, its a lot of guessing games as to where the story might go. It's to the point some things had to be shifted/revised to try and make some kind of sense of it but ultimately it does feel like trying to pick up from where he left off and now trying to jimmyfix plot points from it. Instead, I think a completely revised main storyline without the Gods or all that extra otherworldly threats from different dimensions, but keeping it within the WSE format with three major factions players can join would be great. So it keeps the whole village concept via the factions but without needing them to be hidden villages and instead be its own unique thing.
An idea to achieve this without having to change too much lore wise is using the whole concept of the Rifts. They are portals to other alternative worlds connecting to the main one we play in. You can do a new plot within one of said 'worlds' that's similar to the current one, but contained within its own continuity- so its still connected to the current plot by extension. Also with the removal of Scientific Ninja Tools too, it allows for it to validly not exist in this new world; as they was an essential part of the current story's NW which was supposed to be a sort of modern WSE mixed with Boruto. Im not gonna comment too much on the whole staff thing, cause its basically the same song over and over again. Instead I'd like to offer my time to help the game if or when new staff is might be needed, and Ill do my best to help out where I can.
That's just my quick two cents, sorry if its not cohesive, currently on a boat doing work lol.
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Well, when I say revamp/reboot/etc, its strictly in context ti the NW setting and story - not bios outside of that. I think there is merit in resetting the sandbox and having everyone at comparable strengths, especially in a system/setting that encourages teamwork. We've now done villages on a massive scale, individual ninjas sometimes working together via WSE, and rogue ninjas/missing ninjas during the Village era. I'd probably look into three man cells and having teams of three be the more prominent path if I were deciding things while either scaling back starting levels or limiting access to things as a story is told.
I think things like the Chunin Exams and other events that promote in universe growth/leveling up could be fun, though as NB tradition goes, no one wants to be weaker than they were yesterday.
I think things like the Chunin Exams and other events that promote in universe growth/leveling up could be fun, though as NB tradition goes, no one wants to be weaker than they were yesterday.
minamoto
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veri truu my frend..me agreee..
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Unrelated note, could you please move the Cap breaker stuff to another subforum so we can have our access to edit in our workshop threads back again? It would be really convenient to have everything here in one place and work here than creating bunch of word docs or phone notes everytime there's an idea or an edit that needs to be made for a declined technique
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Yeah, I can change permissions there in a few hours. Clocked in and breaks not for a while.
Dont come over here spamming, you'll get packed up.
minamoto
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Well he's outta here
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That's for people to discuss. For all the complaints that were going on when I was afk, when I ask people for feedback, now everyone just views the thread and doesnt have anything to say. I'm confused, did you guys want change/updates or did you want to complain?
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Okay so boom. NW needs an entire restart. Just lore-wise. Give everyone a fresh start to build new stories, allies and enemies. This new game ++ we are in without Drackos' vision is like playing half of the Shadow of the Erd Tree but the other half isn't accessible. Something fresh that you and/or sensei and mods control that way we can have a smooth path forward from the jump.
We need more mods and sensei. We have a small player base, yes but less work on staff the better. Even if every player was a mod or sensei at this point it doesn't matter. No one will feel overworked and there will always be the next mod or sensei available to do things like check a mods customs and things of that nature.
Before L turnt up, bios was severely lacking and that can't all be put on him. Not sure where Robin is and I'm not saying to demote them but have one or two more solid-standing bio checkers would be great. Last time the bios sat for too long. That's a direct shot at killing interest behind customs that are behind.
We 100% need more staff for the NW even in the form of simply delegates. More needs to happen. The lore got set and started thanks to Zaph but there are apparently three factions and none of the folks running them have done anything with them. To avoid this in the future I think we should, as players, be able to do our own mini events (that can be monitored by staff and rewards and things like that handed out when it is fitting) and be able to control major faction heads if we are to be follow that formula from now on (unless you had something else planned to freshen it up. At this point I am personally down for giving anything new a try). There should be something to do at all times. Whether that be rifts, PvP-like arenas with high stakes, raids, etc. There should always be something for everyone to do. Again, that's where more staff comes in because no one will be able to do these things solo or, let's see... About three deep.
Last note: I think someone should have permissions similar to you so when you go on hiatus, if something goes majorly wrong like we just witnessed, we don't drown and blindly await your return. I still think you should be head of the RP. You know the game well and you've built well beyond what I thought even a text-based game capable of. But I think you should have a right hand man to help.
I'm on my phone so the response may be lacking as I tried cramming major concerns of mine into little paragraphs but yeah.
But my primary concern is staff. There isn't enough. Even with the small player base. You cannot expect two or three active staff members (really only Zaph and L at this time) to check customs, bios, missions, battles and head factions. That's just unrealistic and unnecessary. There are plenty of experienced players here that would love to help this game flourish or at least not die prematurely. Use them. None of us want to see this thing go out bad, son.
And when I say plenty of players, almost all of us are capable of managing one thing this game has to offer with sheer expertise. All the players left are vets. Its time to pump it up.
Edit: Also make the map smaller for now. There's like 8 of us playing. We don't need to be traveling the world to ask how someone's day went. Some things need to be reset to be a bit more basic until more players sign up or return.
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