Why I think Reality Simulation Genjutsu is Broken in a 1v1 match.

[Owarij]

Alright , in this thread I want to have a discussion on genjutsu, Overall it's a pretty op ability in the hands of the right wielder.... But what I want to discuss is the genjutsu that the victim doesn't even realize he's in, the non obvious kinds..Aka one of the broken things in the manga, and i think Kishi literally barely uses it because he knows it's rigged ...I'll give you a few examples from the manga


We've all seen Itachi vs Deidara, If you haven't, take a look

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Now let me explain why it's op...
From reading the manga you should know there are a few way to break genjutsu
Kai method- releasing a surge of chakra from your body to disrupt your chakra flow and escape the genjutsu
Buddy method- An external source , whether inner bijuu or ally disrupts your chakra for you
Genjutsu Overlap/Genjutsu- A method Jiraya never mentioned is that you can escape a genjutsu by overlapping the current genjutsu with another as we've seen...Or if you have a genjutsu similar to heaven/earth reversal, you can reverse the genjutsu onto the caster..

Now seeing that we're talking about 1v1 here buddy method is mostly out of the question, Genjutsu overlapping is highly unlikely and highly situational, and as for the genjutsu reversal technique, it's a sharingan ability itachi has

So we have the kai method...which is HIGHLY innefective against reality simulating genjtusu.. why you ask? well
to escape the genjutsu you first have to REALIZE you're in the genjutsu...
Meaning.. if you don't have sharingan or extremely trained eyes, you're just about dead... how?

well , When a genjutsu is cast on someone, what they see, feel, hear are all controlled by the caster.. it's all real to them... the thing is, when you're put into a genjutsu, you're motionless, still, like a deadbody...

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Meaning, while a battle in genjutsu world is being simulated unknowingly to the victim, the caster can walk up and cut your head off.... yea... You must think i'm insane

but let's look at some examples

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Killer Bee is put into a genjutsu that simulated reality , it's like the fight they were having continued in the genjutsu.. the exact spots they were in, everything.. Killer bee didn't even realize he was in a genjutsu untill 1) itachi told him, 2)his bijuu told him and woke him up

But in REAL time , kabuto (who controlled itachi),had already thrown a couple of shruiken and they were coming at him... Luckily killer bee has a bijuu to get him out..

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Tell me what you think would have happenned if Killer bee didn't have a bijuu to get him out of it? How is any ninja without sharingan or extremely trained eyes, supposed to realize fast enough THEN use the kai method, THEN defend from the attack? It's impossible

If the caster of the genjutsu chooses to not make it obvious, aka if itachi doesn't use his genjutsu signature crows...what then? the victim goes on thinking everything is real?

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While the caster could easily shunshin up to the victim and do that ^, but instead do it to their head..


And there are a few more examples

Sasuke vs Danzo..
Sasuke is no genjutsu expert, according to obito his genjutsu are weak, and according to danzo compared to itachi the difference between the two is comparable to the sky to heaven..
Tobi also said that this genjutsu was just a test from sasuke to see if he could get danzo in one...

But still

Sasuke puts danzo in a genjutsu around here

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Danzo's izanagi puts him on top of the hill, note where sasuke was first.. at the bootom of that hill

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Sasuke idiotically makes his genjutsu obvious by making itachi appear and crows come out

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Now close attention... In the short time of that genjutsu, in the time it took danzo to finally realize he was in one...because sasuke made it painfully obvious...

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In real time, Sasuke had already gotten ontop of the hill , behind danzo and was ready to stab him through the heart before the cursed seal kicked in...

Now lets step back a few seconds.. had sasuke not made itachi appear? had sasuke not make random crows cmoe out.. what would happen? danzo wouldn't have realized he was in a genjutsu and sasuke would have gotten the TWO seconds more he needed to thrust his sword in...

It makes sense what Chiyo said, that in the past, if you fought a uchiha 1v1 to run.. Because the kai method WONT work... it will take too much time to realize then use it.. you'll be dead already in real time..

The worst part is Itachi has non eye contact genjutsu that can do the same reality simulation thing..

It's broken, luckily kishi has only a few ninjas in the manga use this type of genjutsu. and the few times it has been used, plot no jutsu was covered all over it

All other genjutsu we've seen are obvious.. the moment it happens you basically realize you're in it..
Bringer of darkness
Shee's white light genjutsu
Kabuto's white feather A rank
All tayuyas flute stuff
etc etc

 

[Saikyokami]

i was at a science building they had a ritual reality helm i had to set the settings i made it look like tsukuyomi ^^

 

[Joten Uchiha]

Man that was a whole lot of info to process, I concur I guess.

 

[November]

Good night

 

[Negative Knight]

You've pretty much summed up why i hate Genjutsu as an ability xd

Nice analysis, very few can counter Genjutsu. Kisame with Samehada, Kakuzu with his masks, Sasori's immunity, its difficult to think of examples where someone has an efficient counter towards it.

 

[-Logic-]

Excellent work as always, Owarij. And I agree wholly, people tend to underestimate Itachi's Genjutsu in general and it's various broken implications.​

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[Insidious Smile]

Took the time to read everything. Very good I must say, I agree.

 

[killerman82]

Nice job

 

[SIGFOR]

The first time Sasuke placed Danzo in a genjutsu was purely to test if he actually could do it. It didnt matter how weak it was to Sasuke, it just mattered if he could trick Danzo into thinking he still was able to use Izanagi.

But I agree, in the right hands, genjutsu is crazy powerful.

 

[Owarij]

The first time Sasuke placed Danzo in a genjutsu was purely to test if he actually could do it. It didnt matter how weak it was to Sasuke, it just mattered if he could trick Danzo into thinking he still was able to use Izanagi.

But I agree, in the right hands, genjutsu is crazy powerful.

Yea as I said it was a test, but even though it was a test, he still went for an attempted kill, and was able to get behind danzo, and was a second away from killing him.... The 2nd genjutsu he casted, he made NOTHING obvious, danzo didn't realize he was in one at all.. till the end when he found out what was done

 

[kakashi owns all]

you forgot to talk about the fact that it can be used on multiple people at one time

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making it even more op, i mean if kakashi wanted to he could kill them both easily now

 

[Omnipotent]

I agree. Only Yagura and Bee (and recently Naruto) would even have their biju to assist them.

Maybe she could get through it?:

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You can't say she can't because we haven't seen her abilities

 

[Twin Steps]

The thing with genjutsu is that it's very hard to master compared to ninjutsu and taijutsu, so that's why it's OP.

 

[Owarij]

you forgot to talk about the fact that it can be used on multiple people at one time

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making it even more op, i mean if kakashi wanted to he could kill them both easily now

I wanted to put this in somewhere but forgot what chapter it happened in so I didn't bother , But I don't think battle hardened even cuts it, not when killer bee, someone who has been in wars etc didn't realize, and danzo who prob has experience = to hiruzen which > the sannin, still couldn't tell the difference between reality and genjutsu apart

 

[Owarij]

The thing with genjutsu is that it's very hard to master compared to ninjutsu and taijutsu, so that's why it's OP.

Yea , according to Jiraya you need high intelligence to be able to use genjutsu properly, compared to ninjutsu and taijutsu, genjutsu just excels imo

 

[Blaze Release]

Genjutsu in general is broken and that is why majority even high level ninja's cannot utilise this art and train in nin and tai only.
Other forms of genjutsu like kanashibari genjutsu or hypnosis genjutsu either controlling them or putting them to sleep is more potent imo and harder to break because you are either paralysed or you have no idea that you are bring controlled. However these two genjutsu are rather obvious and the victim will know they are in an illusion. The strength of these genjutsu is its potency and difficulty to break

However as you noted simulation genjutsu is also broken. That genjutsu isn't as potent as the two above however the strength of this genjutsu is that it deceives the victim and replicates the surroundings. In this case attention to detail is what is needed the most.

Example shee's raigen rakochu ( a technique that im a big fan of), does two things, it blinds the opponent but more importantly it does something important after. It replicates reality and fools the victim. Jugo thought raikage had stomped sasuke's [

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], however that was shee's doing and sasuke due to the abilities of the sharingan saw through it. [

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], what is important is that in that page we then see ow close in proximity darui and Ai was to sasuke.

Attention to detail is something that a doujutsu user has to overcome this genjutsu. Next is the chakra flow. Sensor's have one of the best chakra flows in the series therefore this form of genjutsu will not troll them (funny enough its a kanashibari based genjutsu that got the better of shee, but also a hypnosis based genjutsu that got the better of Fu, both sensors). This form of genjutsu wouldn't get past sensor's because even though it replicates the scenario very vividly sensor's who specialise in chakra would be able to tell if they are in one and that is what Karin was trying to do [

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]

The first step to breaking an illusion is knowing you are in one. However when you can copy an environment perfectly and give away no signs, only a doujutsu user or a master sensor would be able to realise that they are in an illusion in time to break free. Taking too long in releasing you are in an illusion could cost you the fight

 

[Owarij]

Genjutsu in general is broken and that is why majority even high level ninja's cannot utilise this art and train in nin and tai only.
Other forms of genjutsu like kanashibari genjutsu or hypnosis genjutsu either controlling them or putting them to sleep is more potent imo and harder to break because you are either paralysed or you have no idea that you are bring controlled. However these two genjutsu are rather obvious and the victim will know they are in an illusion. The strength of these genjutsu is its potency and difficulty to break

However as you noted simulation genjutsu is also broken. That genjutsu isn't as potent as the two above however the strength of this genjutsu is that it deceives the victim and replicates the surroundings. In this case attention to detail is what is needed the most.

Example shee's raigen rakochu ( a technique that im a big fan of), does two things, it blinds the opponent but more importantly it does something important after. It replicates reality and fools the victim. Jugo thought raikage had stomped sasuke's [

You must be registered for see links

], however that was shee's doing and sasuke due to the abilities of the sharingan saw through it. [

You must be registered for see links

], what is important is that in that page we then see ow close in proximity darui and Ai was to sasuke.

Attention to detail is something that a doujutsu user has to overcome this genjutsu. Next is the chakra flow. Sensor's have one of the best chakra flows in the series therefore this form of genjutsu will not troll them (funny enough its a kanashibari based genjutsu that got the better of shee, but also a hypnosis based genjutsu that got the better of Fu, both sensors). This form of genjutsu wouldn't get past sensor's because even though it replicates the scenario very vividly sensor's who specialise in chakra would be able to tell if they are in one and that is what Karin was trying to do [

You must be registered for see links

]

The first step to breaking an illusion is knowing you are in one. However when you can copy an environment perfectly and give away no signs, only a doujutsu user or a master sensor would be able to realise that they are in an illusion in time to break free. Taking too long in releasing you are in an illusion could cost you the fight

Cannot stress more on that last part

 

[FleeOnSight]

Ah the green! My eyes!

But I did read and it was pretty good. I agree. It's exactly the reason why I hate genjutsu. It's op.

 

[Turson]

Basically, Genjutsu in Naruto can be as dangerous as Aizens complete hyptotism - both control all five senses. There is only one difference: Genjutsus can be broken, unlike Kyouka Suigetsu. But its not a factor when the victim doesnt even know that hes/shes trapped in illusion.

 

[Owarij]

Basically, Genjutsu in Naruto can be as dangerous as Aizens complete hyptotism - both control all five senses. There is only one difference: Genjutsus can be broken, unlike Kyouka Suigetsu. But its not a factor when the victim doesnt even know that hes/shes trapped in illusion.

Yup, If you don't know know you're in it, it's extremely similar to aizen's ability... A broken ass abilitiy.