Could prime Hiruzen have defeated Orochimaru and his Edos?

[9th Raikage]

If by beat you mean defeated and survived, yes. Oro couldnt use/didnt use Hashirama and Tobirama's full abilities. Also Hiruzen in his prime is greater than Oro

 

[YellowFang]

No, Oro could have solo'ed Hiruzen if going by killing intent in the old age...
Let's take it back, Oro would need Edo's to defeat Hiruzen in his prime with killing intent...(Also, Hiruzen didn't knew any of great fuinjutsus then, so he isn't sealing Edo's at all)

 

[RikudoKami]

Age means nothing, Oonoki would annihilate Orochimaru & Hiruzen

 

[narmeiter]

quite easily.

 

[Form]

Yes definitely

 

[KamuiShiryu]

No, Oro could have solo'ed Hiruzen if going by killing intent in the old age...
Let's take it back, Oro would need Edo's to defeat Hiruzen in his prime with killing intent...(Also, Hiruzen didn't knew any of great fuinjutsus then, so he isn't sealing Edo's at all)

really can u show me where it said he didn't know any fuinjutsus cus last time i saw kishi wrote on his databook that he knew over 1000 jutsus and he also had hashi scrolls which naruto stole at the begn. of the manga..... so ur assumption is a little far fetched dont u think?? wouldn't it be safer to assume he knew some .....

 

[The Scion of Hentai]

Yup, by hype alone Prime Hiruzen would have been able to defeat Oro and his Edos. Defeating Orochimaru wouldn't be too much of a challenge for a man hyped as the 'God of Shinobi'. Adding the fact that Oro was Hiruzen's student and Hiruzen probably knows a great deal about his techniques and such, it's only logical to assume he could defeat him.
And then, at least one of the 1000+ jutsu's that Hiruzen had in his disposal would be able to seal, temporarily or permanently, Edo Hashi and Edo Tobi.
End result, Prime Hiruzen wins low-mid difficulty.

 

[Talal]

He would've killed Oro, then the edos would be free?

 

[Sea Of Thy Soul]

At an old age (67-69?), he still managed to subjugate Orochimaru's Edo Tensei resurrected minions.

Orochimaru, himself did not manage to escape the battle as the victor unscathed.

So, what more if Hiruzen was at his prime?

 

[narut2]

Ok now I approve you are a super troll all your thread is even worse everyday trolling everyday huh orichmaro alone solo prime 3 rd hokage plzz are you a 3rd hokage fan too -.-

Are you seirous man?

 

[LegendaryAce]

The problem with people is that they look at that fight as fact of power regarding Orochimaru and his Edos ... The only reason or one of the reasons Orochimaru toyed with hiruzen because he knew he was weaker than his so called prime and he was an old man who couldn't handle that situation that was because he didn't know he had rds


Now in his prime hiruzen wouldn't have rds ... He has everything better than his old self but taking on Orochimaru with his haxx summoning and Edo tensei full power I don't think hiruzen would win ... That's if start off Orochimaru wants to kill him ... If he wants to toy then hiruzen wins

 

[PretaPath]

Lol no shit he would have fodderized them.

 

[ChiefHermit]

He did win lol... he went out and died on his own terms

in his prime lol, can you read?

 

[LegendaryAce]

*sigh* some people :/ watch when hashirama gets hype that hiruzen can't counter watch them jump on the bandwagon

 

[Chef Boy RD]

Your logic is soooo stupid... This is why.

Nagato is said to have mastered all elements, yet you havent seen him use lightning, water, or fire techs. But by your logic we should believe he can do it because the manga hasnt shown it.

What? I'm trying to figure out how this made sense to you. And it's hard for me to even make folly of this statement as I am sure there is a typo or two (or ten) existing in that sentence. Just make sure you've read and comprehended my statement correctly before you further embarrass yourself, I'll even tell you the main idea of the statement.

Logic 101: a ninja can only use ninjutsus inside his element. Hiruzen is Doton/Katon, therefore we won't see him using a suiton jutsu. Therefore he hasn't mastered all of Konoha's ninjutsus. Never did it state that he was capable of using all of Konoha's jutsus either, that's just fanboys misinterpreting a statement.

This means that:
1) Fanboys did a half-assed interpretation of the statement, as nowhere did it say, "Hiruzen is capable of and has mastered all of Konoha's techniques"
2) For some unknown reason for fanboys to still be under the impresion that he can use all of Konoha's jutsus, I pointed out that Hiruzen's elements are Doton and Katon. Suiton jutsus are a part of "Konoha's Jutsu Criteria" (as well as the other elements) and because Suiton is not Sandaime's element, he cannot use Suiton jutsus, therefore, he couldn't have mastered all of Konoha's jutsus. This is why we don't see "Copy-Ninja Kakashi" canonly using jutsus out of his Doton/Suiton/Raiton range.

Simple logic really.

um... being able to seal the 1st hokage and 2nd hokage isn't much right?? 0.0 "they were perfect edo b4 u say they weren't they were going full out "killing machines " meaning the intetn to kill"

Other thread => just because they're fighting with "the intent to kill" doesn't mean they're going all out.

Neji fought Hinata with the intent to kill (see Kurenai's statement after he hit her heart region) and we didn't see him "go all out" did we?
Gaara fought Rock Lee with the intent to kill (which is why Gai saved him) and we didn't see him "go all out" did we?

Shodaime and Nidaime used 4 fodder jutsus total:

Nidaime => Suiton Suijinhekki (defense) and Suiton Suishouha
Shodaime => Kokuangyou (fodder genjutsu) and he only used Jukai Kotan to ensnare Sarutobi

Not even their top tier ninjutsus, I wouldn't even call that "going all out" for someone like Konohamaru. Madara used more jutsus than both of them combined and yet we still accept the fact that he wasn't "going all out" against the 5 kages, now do we?

What he say's it true it say's it could have, But this implys he has a chance, This alone is huge for a 59year old who is past his prime.

No, it implied that had he been younger, he may have had a better chance to seal all of Orochimaru and not just partially. The whole theme of that snippet is the Shiki Fuujin jutsu.

Again he is saying He hasn't show it so he doesn't have it, Even disagreeing with the manga in his 1000+ Jutsu's simply because we cannot name over 1000.

No one questions kakashi's 1000 Jutsu's or so on.
By this logic kakashi's nickname of Copy ninja is completely flawed since we cannot name over 1000 Jutsu's.

Both His and kakashi's 1000+ Jutsu's are Valid Hype/Feats untill Proven otherwise by kishi himself. Trying to deny this is a pathetic attempts to bash them.

It is flawed because for one, it is never stated that Hiruzen can use these alleged jutsus. Secondly, there isn't 1000 jutsus in the manga period; if there was, Kakashi would only be able use those inside his elements; and lastly, how would these shinobi know that Kakashi has over 1000 in the first place? He went on stage displaying his jutsus and people sat in the audience tallying? It's common sense, and for you to need the author to directly refute of this claim is poor story comprehension on your part.

In order to pass Konoha's entrance exam, you are required to perform a ninjutsu (henge, bunshin, etc.), it was never "proven otherwise" right? Tell me, how did Rock Lee pass if he cannot use ninjutsu? Hiashi claimed that the Hyuuga were Konoha's strongest clan, half-assed logic that's common on this board would be that since the Hyuuga is Konoha's strongest clan and because Hiashi is the leader, he's the strongest, hence he is the strongest fighter in Konoha. Kishimoto hasn't "proved otherwise" that the Hyuuga clan weren't the strongest, right? See, half-assed logic. There's a lot of crap that Kishimoto hasn't "proven otherwise", but we don't take it to heart.


Bottom line, Hiruzen cannot get rid of the Edo Tenseis without Shiki Fuujin. I find it quite appalling that fanboys can make statements such as:

Those techniques werent created yet.

and

u could also say why didn't kakashi use kamui can't u ? people don't understand that kishi didn't have the whole manga planned out

and

It wasnt shown in the manga yet... Why didnt Itachi use Izanami in ny of his fights or KA, oh I knew. They werent created yet in the MANGA

But it's okay for them to invent a fuuinjutsu that Hiruzen could have in order to get rid of the Edo Tenseis right? They don't attribute this invented fuuinjutsu that Hiruzen could have a name, because it "doesn't exist in the manga" but it's okay because it is convenient for them. Hypocrisy at its best.

So now I am going to use faulty, half-assed logic and make absurd statements such as:

-Naruto knows Shiki Fuujin because Minato invented it and Kakashi was his disciple. Because Kakashi was Naruto's mentor, he knows the jutsu.
-TenTen can use the Lotus because her sensei can.
-The Uzumaki clan was said to be brilliant at Fuuinjutsus. Minato married an Uzumaki and learned from her, so therefore he has a jutsu that can seal STDs, money, dojutsus... everything in the shinobi world
etc.

And all this is true because "Kishimoto hasn't proven otherwise"

 

[Hafiz Dembos]

Could tenten have defeated pain when he attacked konoha?

No.

 

[KamuiShiryu]

But it's okay for them to invent a fuuinjutsu that Hiruzen could have in order to get rid of the Edo Tenseis right? They don't attribute this invented fuuinjutsu that Hiruzen could have a name, because it "doesn't exist in the manga" but it's okay because it is convenient for them. Hypocrisy at its best.

So now I am going to use faulty, half-assed logic and make absurd statements such as:

-Naruto knows Shiki Fuujin because Minato invented it and Kakashi was his disciple. Because Kakashi was Naruto's mentor, he knows the jutsu.
-TenTen can use the Lotus because her sensei can.
-The Uzumaki clan was said to be brilliant at Fuuinjutsus. Minato married an Uzumaki and learned from her, so therefore he has a jutsu that can seal STDs, money, dojutsus... everything in the shinobi world
etc.

And all this is true because "Kishimoto hasn't proven otherwise"

well kishi already did it with the 1st by giving him more jutsu's ........
why didn't u say anything then.