Could Itachi have taken on Hiruzen?

[The Necromancer]

The fact of the matter is we saw sasuke utilize the cursed seal (orochimaru's chakra) and then the genjutsu broken immediately. Also the cursed seal destroyed the Itachi clone holding him as well

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So it's very evident the cursed seal had something to do with him breaking it. Itachi only stated "Only another sharingan user with the same blood (and kkg in the anime) could defeat me and turns out sasuke is the same blood and has a KKG (blaze release)

What i'm saying is that sasuke has the same blood (they are brothers, obviously) he already has the requirement to break Tsukuyomi. Since no mention is made as to his curse mark helping break it by either itachi, or zetsu, i'm going to say the curse seal did not help as there is no reason to believe an outside factor helped when the requirement is already made.

Let's say i use 10 pounds of C4 to blow up a snowman, but at the last second i add an 11th pound. I'm not going to assume the 11th pound did the trick, as i already had enough to blow it up.

so you wan't me to ignore what was clear and stated by itachi himself (no hidden motives or any later explanations) and believe the stuff you just said ..... itachi doesn't care about the life of one or two shinobi and no itachi and kisame cannot take on kakashi, kurenai, asuma and gai. listen now don't try to understand this the way you want too when it was clear (don't twist it when nothing was said or happened that even implied what you were talking about) its was a simple i can't beat him RUN i don't wana risk my life (if itachi had anything on jiraiya he wouldn't have ran). blame kishi not me .....

Itachi is a pacifist. He doesn't even want to fight unless he has to, or if he has to save his brother. He wouldn't just murder jiraiya because first of all, he didn't want to, and secondly then he would be going against his own village and accomplishing akatsuki's goals by capturing naruto, something he didn't want to do. It's called reading between the lines. True, it's not directly stated in the manga, but the facts have changed since that quote, and the fact that itachi does not like to kill is a pretty big factor.

In the end of the day it could go either way, so let's drop it.

 

[Unbiased]

Yah subs would work, I agree, but how do we know Hiruzen will be lucky enough to slip through a roof like Sasuke, what if he subs. right into more Ama?
The ring genjutsu, would just be a splitsecond thing, just giving itachi a chance to attack
still don't think enma can break him out of tsuki though

Side note: Why do people never bring up Substitutions in and Uchiha Vs Thread

Substitution is e rank no one remembers it lol. Of course Emna isn't breaking tsukuyomi it requires a partner to break or you just endure through it. I'm just stating it is possible for hiruzen with emna to break it. Hiruzen could substitute into a legion of naked katy perry's I mean it's all hypothetical what happens. I'm just stating his options.

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

Necromancer4276 . you know my biggest problem with this argument is that the people on itachi's side have no proof of anything and expect to convince someone about something other than whats infront of their eyes (make up another understanding) also about itachi not wanting to fight unless he has too, your not serious ..... :sy: tell that to kakashi (itachi enjoyed showing off his power) but he also knew his limit thats why he ran from the perv . anyways your right lets leave it at that, i just wish to have a reasonable debate .....

 

[Unbiased]

What i'm saying is that sasuke has the same blood (they are brothers, obviously) he already has the requirement to break Tsukuyomi. Since no mention is made as to his curse mark helping break it by either itachi, or zetsu, i'm going to say the curse seal did not help as there is no reason to believe an outside factor helped when the requirement is already made.

Let's say i use 10 pounds of C4 to blow up a snowman, but at the last second i add an 11th pound. I'm not going to assume the 11th pound did the trick, as i already had enough to blow it up.

I agree 100% he has the requirement. There's no argument from me about that. However according to the manga that is not what saved him. His use of the cursed seal assisted in him breaking it. Prior to using the cursed seal he got his eye plucked and was about to get the second one plucked but he activated the cursed seal and it broke. I'm not saying sasuke can't break it on his own, I'm just saying the cursed seal (oro's chakra) assisted.

 

[KevinPJH]

Itachi wins easily.

 

[Bogard]

Hiruzen is all hype, so of course Itachi would win by feats. If we count hype though, Hiruzen should win. Even Itachi knows his place

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[Unbiased]

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[Kamikage]

Fail A>B>C Logic. Hiruzen>Madara Those techniques werent created yet in the manga... if they were, why didnt Kakashi use Kamui on Itachi

Are you a genius? Kakashi learned Kamui during Shipuden when he was with Naruto chasing Deidara. It's not that it wasn't created in the manga yet, but that he didn't learn the skill at that time. Simply like how Sasuke didn't know what Amaterasu was at that time...

 

[ReZ]

How hiruzen would defend against the MS. (this is about old hiruzen I never argue using prime)

Amaterasu

We have seen sasuke (not even running fast) outrun amaterasu for a short bit.

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We also saw how he used a substitution jutsu (oro style) to escape as well.

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Therefore hiruzen has two options.

He can either use Doton mudslide barrier (while running to block it

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(And yes it is quick enough, it takes him one hand seal, not to mention the second it hits the ground it starts forming as seen in the picture.

Or he can use a simple substitution jutsu as we have seen it work prior.

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(And please don't give me that whole he can't use it prior crap we saw sakura use it prior to being hit and it instantly turned into a log in the forest of death.

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Susanoo

Susanoo is a manifestation of the users chakra. This is why they have different colours. Itachi's is red, sasuke's is purple ect. It requires Yin to shape it (tsukuyomi) and Yang to create a physical appearance (amaterasu).

We have seen how DRS can latch onto manifestations of chakra (the bijuu are all manifestations of chakra.)

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Therefore since susanoo is a manifestation of the users chakra it can be latched onto by DRS. Since I have brought clarity to the situation, I will show how hiruzen defeats this technique.

1-DRS can travel distances and go through chakra as we saw earlier with Minato. Therefore it can travel through sussanoo and latch onto itachi. Note this is one instance where it can work as long as Hiruzen is not in front of it as Itachi's Yata shield will block it.

2-Hiruzen can manipulate earth so it does lead to possibilities of removing him from susanoo. However that's all speculation and not concrete.

Tsukuyomi

Hiruzen summons emna to break him free if itachi wish's it to be longer then a second. Tsukuyomi won't knock you out forever, as we saw sasuke recover from it quite quickly against itachi.

I don't care to debate every technique but don't go around saying hiruzen cannot counter susanoo, amaterasu, tsukuyomi as it's simply not accurate.

Also ten ten > juubi as there's nothing in the manga stating she can't xd.

But long story short it's a draw if Itachi uses susanoo unless hiruzen outlast him (which is quite plausible)

Sasuke recovered from tsuku faster because he broke it,and he was an UCHIHA that's the reason he broke the tech in the first place.You saw what happened to Kakashi right?

 

[kapala kundala]

Why Itachi and Hiruzen needed to fight

 

[Unbiased]

Sasuke recovered from tsuku faster because he broke it,and he was an UCHIHA that's the reason he broke the tech in the first place.You saw what happened to Kakashi right?

That may be true, however killer bee who broke tsukuyomi

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did not need any recovery time at all. (tsukuyomi requirse eye contact and with itachi stating to not look into his eyes, insinuates he used tsukuyomi) Furthermore sasuke was on his knees and out of breath after the technique. I'm not saying he didn't recover fast, but he was still pretty banged up

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[Zlad]

Itachi did not defeat Orochimaru, it was not a real fight tbh. Itachi and Sasuke can defeat old Hiruzen, but not prime.

 

[ReZ]

That may be true, however killer bee who broke tsukuyomi

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did not need any recovery time at all. (tsukuyomi requirse eye contact and with itachi stating to not look into his eyes, insinuates he used tsukuyomi) Furthermore sasuke was on his knees and out of breath after the technique. I'm not saying he didn't recover fast, but he was still pretty banged up

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In that case Killer Bee had Hachibi to snap him out,he's a perfect jinchu.Hiruzen doesn't host Enma so he doesn't have a way out of tsuku.

 

[Unbiased]

In that case Killer Bee had Hachibi to snap him out,he's a perfect jinchu.Hiruzen doesn't host Enma so he doesn't have a way out of tsuku.

Genjutsu just requires someone to disturb your chakra. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[HiddenWarrior]

Judging by their performances against Orochimaru, I highly doubt it.

People are still saying he beats Hashirama; Madara embarasses Hiruzen in my opinion so him beating the first is a myth plus "God of Shinobi" is a nickname that perfectly suits the strongest kage of that era.

 

[ReZ]

Genjutsu just requires someone to disturb your chakra. Nothing more nothing less.

OMG,tsukuyomi it's instant.How the **** could some1 disturb your chakra if you're already collapsed.Stop talking bullshit.I'm not talking about your regular genjutsu,I'm talking about tsukuyomi.

 

[Unbiased]

OMG,tsukuyomi it's instant.How the **** could some1 disturb your chakra if you're already collapsed.Stop talking bullshit.I'm not talking about your regular genjutsu,I'm talking about tsukuyomi.

We have already seen tsukuyomi be broken by the cursed seal, and by a bijuu. Therefore despite the fact it is instant is it possible to break it though unlikely. Next time read over the entire situation before you assume it is unbreakable.

 

[Bijuu13]

Oh my god hiruzen fanboys are the most irritating thing in the world. YES itachi could take him

 

[ReZ]

We have already seen tsukuyomi be broken by the cursed seal, and by a bijuu. Therefore despite the fact it is instant is it possible to break it though unlikely. Next time read over the entire situation before you assume it is unbreakable.

Did i say it's unbreakable?No,but you either have to be an Uchiha(the cursed seal reacted only inside the genjutsu/outside it never activated) or a jinchuriki.Hiruzen was none,so we can assume that he would have been tsuku'd in the face.

 

[BlackFlames]

You gotta be dumb... Itachi has beaten note-worthy shinobi within 3 minutes or less... Kissame, Kakashi, Oro, Deidara (He couldve killed Sasuke in about that time frame too if he summoned susano'o from the start of their fight)... He has also defeated DSM Kabuto while keeping him alive to manipulate Kabuto to undo edo tensei (Which is a bigger victory than straight killing him)... And Itachi also had proved to be a great team player when killer bee and naruto went up against against edo Nagato... For your info, Oro was not weak at that time, he was just obsessed with Uchiha power... Itachi and Oro had that fallout shortly after the uchiha massacre which was at least 7 years before Oro attempted to kill Hiruzen and crush the hidden leaf...