Could Itachi have taken on Hiruzen?

[Kages]

You're the one who's saying Hiruzen can beat DSM Kabuto when DSM Kabuto has 30+ Edos in his arsenal, including Edo Itachi and Edo Nagato. You also say that Hiruzen can beat Obito when Obito has 5 Edo jinchuuriki in his arsenal, not to mention the Gedo Mazou. If that isn't fanboyism to the extreme, I don't know what is. Saying that just makes Hiruzen look bad.

I can assure you, I'm not a Hashirama 'boy.

I mean he can beat Kabuto withut Edo Tensei. And Obito without Juubi

 

[Omnipotent]

I mean he can beat Kabuto withut Edo Tensei. And Obito without Juubi

That makes no sense. You always use Enma in your Hiruzen arguments, so it's only fair that Kabuto's Edo Tensei and Obito's Gedo Mazou are included; they're all a part of their individual arsenals and they are all summoning techniques.

You're handicapping Kabuto and Obito just to make Hiruzen win.

Nah, the "God of all Shinobi" can take everyone neg-diff, according to you

 

[Kages]

That makes no sense. You always use Enma in your Hiruzen arguments, so it's only fair that Kabuto's Edo Tensei and Obito's Gedo Mazou are included; they're all a part of their individual arsenals and they are all summoning techniques.

You're handicapping Kabuto and Obito just to make Hiruzen win.

Nah, the "God of all Shinobi" can take everyone neg-diff, according to you

Do Kabuto and Obito have a contract with the Jubi/Edo Tensei. They both require prep time unlike Enma

 

[theRPGdude]

Show me in the manga where Hiruzen was stated that he was God Of Shinobi!

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

That makes no sense. You always use Enma in your Hiruzen arguments, so it's only fair that Kabuto's Edo Tensei and Obito's Gedo Mazou are included; they're all a part of their individual arsenals and they are all summoning techniques.

You're handicapping Kabuto and Obito just to make Hiruzen win.

Nah, the "God of all Shinobi" can take everyone neg-diff, according to you

slow down there, edo tensei and gedo mazou are not the same as enma, enma is hiruzen's TRUE rightful summon, edo tensei is nothing more than a point that took a lot of preparation, time and samples so its just a temporary period where the characters are most dangerous, its just like saying that konan is a monster because of her sea of explosive papers. also edo tensei is not really a summon (it uses other CHARACTERS included in the top ten strongest) so IF YOU GIVE IT TO ANYONE THEY WOULD BE UNBEATABLE. gedo mazou and the rinnegan is also just a period of time that obito had a boost in (its not even his power).

 

[Kages]

Show me in the manga where Hiruzen was stated that he was God Of Shinobi!

Orochimaru stated it. Sorry i cant upload pics right now but look it up on google

 

[theRPGdude]

Do Kabuto and Obito have a contract with the Jubi/Edo Tensei. They both require prep time unlike Enma

What's all this prep time shit? Seriously? Who does prep time in the start of a battle?

Like Minato needs his time to throw his markers. And Kabuto needs to have prep time even though he summon 12 Edo's in front of Obito.

Prep time my ass. Excuse me sir before we battle I need to get some dead bodies and do some sort of magic ritual.

 

[Lightbringer]

Show me in the manga where Hiruzen was stated that he was God Of Shinobi!

You're sig....lol =DD

 

[Kages]

What's all this prep time shit? Seriously? Who does prep time in the start of a battle?

Like Minato needs his time to throw his markers. And Kabuto needs to have prep time even though he summon 12 Edo's in front of Obito.

Prep time my ass. Excuse me sir before we battle I need to get some dead bodies and do some sort of magic ritual.

If you fight someone from the bat, you cant use Edo Tensei..... without prep time..... Minato always has his kunai with him but I doubt Kabuto always has his Edos with him

 

[RikudoKami]

Itachi was a pacifist first, second if he had his Susano'o weapons than yeah he could've.

 

[theRPGdude]

If you fight someone from the bat, you cant use Edo Tensei..... without prep time..... Minato always has his kunai with him but I doubt Kabuto always has his Edos with him

It's funny how you unrule the part where he can summon them at any time and can return the summoned at any givin time. Seeing he can summon all of his Edo's at will at any givin time.

Assumptions don't work. Even if it is not bluntly stated in words. It's quite obvious he can summon it at any givin time. Even using other Edo's to summon other Edo's.

And besides? Who came up with this prep time crap? Seriously it's stupid to use this in a debate.

 

[RikudoKami]

At that time Itachi was by far the strongest in the village, he fodderized Orochimaru, whom Hiruzen had to use RDS to Tie with, Hiruzen didn't win, Orochimaru outlasted him.

 

[iamsuperboggs]

itachi takes this one...

 

[Unbiased]

How hiruzen would defend against the MS. (this is about old hiruzen I never argue using prime)

Amaterasu

We have seen sasuke (not even running fast) outrun amaterasu for a short bit.

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We also saw how he used a substitution jutsu (oro style) to escape as well.

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Therefore hiruzen has two options.

He can either use Doton mudslide barrier (while running to block it

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(And yes it is quick enough, it takes him one hand seal, not to mention the second it hits the ground it starts forming as seen in the picture.

Or he can use a simple substitution jutsu as we have seen it work prior.

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(And please don't give me that whole he can't use it prior crap we saw sakura use it prior to being hit and it instantly turned into a log in the forest of death.

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Susanoo

Susanoo is a manifestation of the users chakra. This is why they have different colours. Itachi's is red, sasuke's is purple ect. It requires Yin to shape it (tsukuyomi) and Yang to create a physical appearance (amaterasu).

We have seen how DRS can latch onto manifestations of chakra (the bijuu are all manifestations of chakra.)

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Therefore since susanoo is a manifestation of the users chakra it can be latched onto by DRS. Since I have brought clarity to the situation, I will show how hiruzen defeats this technique.

1-DRS can travel distances and go through chakra as we saw earlier with Minato. Therefore it can travel through sussanoo and latch onto itachi. Note this is one instance where it can work as long as Hiruzen is not in front of it as Itachi's Yata shield will block it.

2-Hiruzen can manipulate earth so it does lead to possibilities of removing him from susanoo. However that's all speculation and not concrete.

Tsukuyomi

Hiruzen summons emna to break him free if itachi wish's it to be longer then a second. Tsukuyomi won't knock you out forever, as we saw sasuke recover from it quite quickly against itachi.

I don't care to debate every technique but don't go around saying hiruzen cannot counter susanoo, amaterasu, tsukuyomi as it's simply not accurate.

Also ten ten > juubi as there's nothing in the manga stating she can't xd.

But long story short it's a draw if Itachi uses susanoo unless hiruzen outlast him (which is quite plausible)

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

At that time Itachi was by far the strongest in the village, he fodderized Orochimaru, whom Hiruzen had to use RDS to Tie with, Hiruzen didn't win, Orochimaru outlasted him.

and ran from jiraiya, yep itachi surely was by far the strongest in the village .....

 

[9th Raikage]

Itachi defeated Oro with ease! Itachi defeats Hiruzen, with ease!

 

[VangBro95]

Itachi had access to susanoo and the coveted izanami. Hiruzen has a great weakness to genjutsu of this type. Itachi, if allowed, also has access to KA. With these tools, Itachi cannot lose against Hiruzen.

There are no proof saying that Hiruzen is weak against Genjutsu.

 

[xxSAGExx]

Itachi mid-diff



Tell me how Hiruzen and Enma deal with amaterasu when they don't have prior knowledge on it

What makes you think he has no knowledge of it? It was stated he was called professor for knowing all jutsus in the village and could use them (non blood limit ones of couse). Also He was trained by both Hashirama and Tobirama who both know a lot about Uchiha jutsus considering they fought so many times in their constant time of war. Plus Amaterasu can be blocked or dodged seeing how Hiruzen was pretty fast at 69 then his prime would be even more and he knows earth jutsus to block.

Hiruzen cannot beat any genjutsu Itachi has. There is no way Itachi could lose. It's just unfeasible.

What makes you think he can't? Considering both is teachers were Hashirama and Tobirama who both fought the Uchihas for years and know over 1000 jutsus themselves won't have taught him how to break out? Plus Look how well Hiruzen (as on old man) handled himself in Tobirama's genjutsu.

Enma cannot break through a fully armored susanno. He barely got through wood. Then there's yata's mirror. You don't make sense...

Ok, Hiruzen doesn't have to break Sasunoo, just use Mud swamp river (What Jiriaya used on Orochimaru's snake in part 1 and he was only at 30% power so Hiruzen (prime) would be even larger and sink Itachi. Earth walls block amaterasu. Keep his distance and Itachi will be suffering from his disease and MS side effects. ppl seem to forget MS has side effects and Itachi was sick which hurted him more with MS side effects.

"When they don't have prior knowledge on it", read man.

Amaterasu solos



Give me the manga scan where Enma was stated to be capable to get through Yata Mirror

Solo what? An earth wall Hiruzen made to block it? i guess so?

Well the funny thing is Itachi has too many weapons Hiruzen or Jiraiya can't counter

Well both can counter if you think about it, both knew earth elements. For Sasunoo (meaning the weapons used by it are somewhat useless) would sink in Mud swamp river (what Jiriaya used in part 1 to sink Orochimaru's snakes and that was him at 30%). Earth walls to block Amaterasu and those things Sasunoo throws. No remeber that Itachi was dying from a disease and had low stamina so he wouldn't be spamming any jutsu like he could as an edo. Also MS usage drained him and slowed him down after use.

You're basing things on hype alone... and yet you make it seem like it's so crystal clear and that you have proof provided to back your statement, yet you have nothing.

Orochimaru said it himself ; the Itachi that he has faced back then is stronger than him even now.... and yet Itachi had 5 years to get stronger... the gap may be even bigger than it was.

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No matter how you want to look at it, no matter how the fight turned out... Itachi is according to Orochimaru stronger than him, that is it.


Now then, Old Hiruzen had to take extreme mesure in order to ''LOOSE'' with Orochimaru, he died in the process. Sure Sarutobi was strong.... but he did loose to Orochimaru,

Which makes Orochimaru stronger than him.... yet Orochimaru even with everything he has/had to disposal considers that Itachi is superior to him.

Itachi is stronger than the Orochimaru who was stronger than old Sarutobi.


Itachi is no match to old Hiruzen??? Bullshit.

Given the fight that he gave, Itachi would without a doubt win against Sarutobi, the best Hiruzen could hope for is a tie by commiting suicide using the Death,s god... that is all.

Now... Prime Hiruzen.... what exactly is prime Hiruzen? It's nothing more than a Hiruzen with perhaps more speed and chakra.... he doesnt become superman.

Tsuchikage is old as ****, yet his experience payed off in the end.... he may have gotten weaker here and there... but he got stronger somewhere else.


Itachi rapes old Hiruzen,

And i dont see why he wouldnt defeat prime Hiruzen either.


Current Madara is a god, he could wipe armys and kages all alone.... had Hiruzen been on such level, other villages would have been at Konoha's mercy long ago. Prime Hiruzen's hype is disgusting sadly.... I love the old man but people are making him out to be something that he just isnt,

Um, no? lol There was a flashback showing Orochimaru running from a decent younger aged Hiruzen (when he left the village). And many reasonable ppl agree that Edo is not that person's power since someone else is fighting while they sit back so Hiruzen at 69ish tied with Hashirama and Tobirama (who were controlled) and Orochimaru only survived due to Hiruzen old age lowered his stamina which was still kage level. Was even said if Hiruzen was only 10 years young then the fight could have ended differently, that's only 10 years so imagine him in his prime around 30 years ago. Itachi had low stamina, dying from a disease, going blind, and suffereda lot from the MS side effects. I already said how Hiruzen could counter some of Itachi's jutsus.

Itachi mid-low diff.
Now, Hiruzen fans are really going overboard at over-estimating him...

How so, they are saying Prime Hiruzen who was called God of Shinobi meaning he was stronger than Oonoki, 3rd Raikage and the other kages we saw who were beasts. Itachi has low chakra reserves, dying of a disease, going blind,suffering from MS side effects and you think he's going to be spamming jutsus just like that? Earth wall blocks Amaterasu, Mud swamp river sinks Sasunoo. His teachers were Hashiram and Tobirama who knew a great deal about the Uchiha's jutsus seeing how they were at constant war with each other. Stop forgetting that Itachi is alive and still has his same old weaknesses and is being pinned toa prime Hiruzen who was beast (seeing how beast the rd Raikage and Oonoki are and Hiruzen was stronger, got the name God of shinobi after all).

 

[Temporary Account]

Is this supposed to be a joke? Itachi could easily beat Hiruzen knowing that his weakness is genjutsu.

 

[LordSasukeOfSixPaths]

base itachi wins