Forget the manga the fans are right

[sage22]

the 4th taught hiruzen the reaper death seal :| get ur facts right mate ..... also edo madara stating that hashirama was the only ninja to be able to stand up 2 him

madara's words > iruka's and hiruzens

I have my facts right u say hiruzen then learn rps until after minato use it right. So if minato used the reaper death seal (a jutsu that kills the user also) how could he teach it to hiruzen after.
Get ur facts right.

 

[sage22]

Hiruzen clearly stated that the Reaper Death Seal was Minatos Jutsu, Hiruzen didn't know it Minato did, Hiruzen recently learned it because it was Minatos Jutsu.

My point is I was telling the other guy how could minato teach it to hiruzen after he used it if the jutsu kills the user also.

 

[KamuiShiryu]

the 4th taught hiruzen the reaper death seal :| get ur facts right mate ..... also edo madara stating that hashirama was the only ninja to be able to stand up 2 him

madara's words > iruka's and hiruzens

who are u to say that madara's words> iruka's and hiruzen.....

kishi's databook > then what ur opinion

 

[sage22]

who are u to say that madara's words> iruka's and hiruzen.....

kishi's databook > then what ur opinion

Like I said earlier people don't know how to comprehend what they read or they choose to be blind cuz everyone should know madara statement does not contradict iruka and hiruzen.

 

[KamuiShiryu]

Like I said earlier people don't know how to comprehend what they read or they choose to be blind cuz everyone should know madara statement does not contradict iruka and hiruzen.

i know lol and alot of the people know that u can't use the A>B>C logic yet when it comes to the 1st and madara they seem to think they are the only exception

 

[Moss]

Sometimes, you can't rely on the manga, as there are plenty of contradictions. So you have to base some things on speculation and hype.

 

[sage22]

Sometimes, you can't rely on the manga, as there are plenty of contradictions. So you have to base some things on speculation and hype.

Yes the manga does contradict itself quite a bit but not always. Such as the hiruzen hype has not been contradicted.

 

[Chef Boy RD]

once again how can madara say that when he never fought the 4th nor the 3rd yes its safe for him to assume that the 1st was the only one that can beat him cus he has...... are u saying that sense madara said only the 1st can beat him naruto isn't going to find a way to beat him......

What? Madara can't make this statement because he hasn't fought the Hokage successors, but it is okay for Iruka to call Hiruzen the best despite not being able to witness any of the other kage's prowess in full? Wow.

Madara has lived up until Minato made a name for himself as the Yellow Flash. He has Zetsus out scouting and gathering intel for him, so yes, he would know more about all of the kages than Iruka of all people.

i've already stated 1.kabuto 2.Iruka 3.Hiruzen 4. orochimaru 5. kishi... have all stated or hinted i should say that the 3rd was the strongest " irukia hiruzen and kishi" or was stronger at his prime "Kabuto and orochimaru" thats 5 people and i used the manga to back it up so manga > ur assumption sorry

Except that none of those people, save for Iruka stated Hiruzen to be the "Strongest Kage". I pointed out your grand misconception of Kabuto's statement, but in case you forgot, or chose not to read (which wouldn't surprise me), I will re-state.

Kabuto wasn't talking about the hokages as there hasn't even been 5 hokages at this point, and then he follows up by stating, "but still, 2 of 5 kages" referring to Orochimaru killing both the Hokage and the Kazekage. So once again, he never stated or implied Hiruzen to be the strongest hokage.

I don't see how you can get "Hiruzen is the strongest hokage" from Orochimaru's statement, "if you were ten years younger things would have been differently". This is the dumbest that I can simplify it for you. Let's say I type 100 words per minute, you type 20, and my brother types 120. Ten years ago, you typed 60 words per minute. We have a competition, I beat you, and I then state, "if this was ten years ago, it would have been different" how am I implying that you'd be the fastest typer out of all of us? All I am stating is that ten years ago you were better, and you would have been more of a challenge. How you get anything else out of that is beyond me.

ahhh to add to my other post 6th person is emma saying he is weak compared to his prime... orochimaru might not have been fighting with is full power but he himself stated that he made the 1st and 2nd into killing machines meaning they were going full out dont tell me if ur intent to kill ur going to be holding back???? once again using the manga stating they are killing machines and were at full power due to edo manga > ur assumption

Shodaime and Nidaime used a total of 4 fodder jutsus, not even their best moves, so how are they going all out?

Nidaime: Suiton Suijinheki (defense jutsu) and Suiton Suishouha
Shodaime: Kokuangyou no jutsu (fodder genjutsu) and Mokouton Hijutsu: Jukai Kotan (and all he did was ensnare Sarutobi with it)

Madara has used a multitude of jutsus and yet still it is evident that he wasn't going all out against the 5 kages, so how again was Nidaime and Shodaime going all out?

Also, your statement that because someone is fighting with the intent to kill, then they're going all out has been disproved many times throughout the manga:

Neji fought Hinata with the intent to kill (towards the end), he aimed for her heart... Did we see him go all out? No
Gaara fought Rock Lee with the intent to kill, did we see him go all out? No
I can go all day

FAIL!!!! once again
Hiruzen could have used the dds like minato did to "deal" with the kyuubi but because he didn't means he is weak.... so i guess its the 1st and 2nd fault for not using there jutsu's using ur own arguement against you guess they are weak too........ and me and sage had a misunderstanding and we both agree his prime was around 30ish nice try though

Except that Shiki Fuujin is Minato's jutsu. Tell me how Hiruzen could have known, how to perform the jutsu and what it did if it wasn't his jutsu and he's never seen it before? But let's use your faulty logic and say that he did know Shiki Fuujin at this time, why didn't he use it then? Wouldn't it make more sense for him to risk his life to save the village since his life is closer to an end and more dispensable than Minato's, the Hokage who has more years of life ahead of him? At the very least, you can think before you exclaim something to be a fail.

He didn't deal with the Kyuubi because he couldn't, all he could do was stall. You said that because Orochimaru stated that, "if this was ten years ago... blah blah" implied that Hiruzen in his prime was the strongest kage. Well, this time frame that Kyuubi attacked was ten years ago, and Hiruzen couldn't do shit. So once again, how does Orochimaru's statement imply that Hiruzen in his prime was the strongest kage?

kishi's databook > then what ur opinion

Wow, are we referring to the same databook that gave Hidan a 5 in ninjutsu and 4.5 in taijutsu? He has displayed no ninjutsu and yet he was put on par/above people like Kakashi, Itachi, Kisame, etc.? And since when does randomly swinging around your scythe warrant you a taijutsu prowess that surpasses Kakuzu's? The same databook that has Rock Lee's taijutsu above Iruka's, and yet, Sasuke's taijutsu lower than Iruka's after copying Lee and despite Gai stating that Sasuke's taijutsu overlapped Lee's? Seriously, let's not get into the databook

No u missunderstood my statement. I don't mean she doesn't have a lot of chakra I mean her chakra isn't strong. The strength of ninjutsu depends onthings. The level of the jutsu the strength of the chakra of the user n how much chakra they put into the jutsu.

How does this make sense? She has high chakra, the strength of a jutsu depends on how much chakra they put into a jutsu, but she doesn't have strong chakra, therefore her ninjutsu isn't strong. Let me repeat: the strength of a jutsu depends on how much chakra they put into it, Tsunade has high chakra but her ninjutsu isn't strong... What?

Here's 3 examples.
The sasuke itachi fight they use the same fire jutsu but assumes over power itachi's cuz he has more chakra to put into it.

Except that Itachi's Katon Goukakyuu no jutsu didn't overpower Sasuke's, if it did what would be the point in him using Amaterasu?

During naurot pain fight one path absorbs the natural energy from naruto n turned to stoned cuz the chakra of the earth is stronger than the chakra of any ninja that's why u need a lot of chakra to balance it out which is why naruto doesn't need help to maintain sage mode like jirayai.

What? The Preta path turned into stone because he lacked the training and discipline to control the Sennin chakra, which was the same thing happening to Naruto before he completed the training. Jiraiya only needed the frogs to have them continually drawing the Sennin chakra for him so he didn't have a timer unlike Naruto and because he never perfected the training like Naruto.

The last example would beat oro vs hiruzen. Hiruzen didn't have a lot of chakra to spare but even with the lil bit he had it was still strong enough to affect the atmosphere.

That is simply dramatic effect, when we see Orochimaru fight Naruto his chakra isn't cracking the atmosphere is it? And anytime Jinchuurikis utilize their full power, their chakra doesn't crack the atmosphere (are we under the assumption that Hiruzen and Orochimaru's chakra strength surpasses that of Naruto's for example?)

Also I could give u 3 but like I said I'm not really tryna get into that discussion again.

Please do because I missed your point.

Like I said earlier people don't know how to comprehend what they read or they choose to be blind cuz everyone should know madara statement does not contradict iruka and hiruzen.

Iruka uses past-tense when talking about Hiruzen, everyone talking about Tobirama and Hashirama uses present-tense. That's more than enough of a contradiction, you just won't accept it. I seriously can't see how people think Iruka to be credible; Konohamaru would be more believable than this guy, seriously...

 

[Salad]

You simply cannot take all of the manga to heart especially since you are talking about a chapter from 12 years ago. Opinions change lol.

 

[sage22]

What? Madara can't make this statement because he hasn't fought the Hokage successors, but it is okay for Iruka to call Hiruzen the best despite not being able to witness any of the other kage's prowess in full? Wow.

Madara has lived up until Minato made a name for himself as the Yellow Flash. He has Zetsus out scouting and gathering intel for him, so yes, he would know about all of the kages than Iruka of all people.



Except that none of those people, save for Iruka stated Hiruzen to be the "Strongest Kage". I pointed out your grand misconception of Kabuto's statement, but in case you forgot, or chose not to read (which wouldn't surprise me), I will re-state.

Kabuto wasn't talking about the hokages as there hasn't even been 5 hokages at this point, and then he follows up by stating, "but still, 2 of 5 kages" referring to Orochimaru killing both the Hokage and the Kazekage. So once again, he never stated or implied Hiruzen to be the strongest hokage.

I don't see how you can get "Hiruzen is the strongest hokage" from Orochimaru's statement, "if you were ten years younger things would have been differently". This is the dumbest that I can simplify it for you. Let's say I type 100 words per minute, you type 20, and my brother types 120. Ten years ago, you typed 60 words per minute. We have a competition, I beat you, and I then state, "if this was ten years ago, it would have been different" how am I implying that you'd be the fastest typer out of all of us? All I am stating is that ten years ago you were better, and you would have been more of a challenge. How you get anything else out of that is beyond me.



Shodaime and Nidaime used a total of 4 fodder jutsus, not even their best moves, so how are they going all out?

Nidaime: Suiton Suijinheki (defense jutsu) and Suiton Suishouha
Shodaime: Kokuangyou no jutsu (fodder genjutsu) and Mokouton Hijutsu: Jukai Kotan (and all he did was ensnare Sarutobi with it)

Madara has used a multitude of jutsus and yet still it is evident that he wasn't going all out against the 5 kages, so how again was Nidaime and Shodaime going all out?

Also, your statement that because someone is fighting with the intent to kill, then they're going all out has been disproved many times throughout the manga:

Neji fought Hinata with the intent to kill (towards the end), he aimed for her heart... Did we see him go all out? No
Gaara fought Rock Lee with the intent to kill, did we see him go all out? No
I can go all day



Except that Shiki Fuujin is Minato's jutsu. Tell me how Hiruzen could have known, how to perform the jutsu and what it did if it wasn't his jutsu and he's never seen it before? But let's use your faulty logic and say that he did know Shiki Fuujin at this time, why didn't he use it then? Wouldn't it make more sense for him to risk his life to save the village since his life is closer to an end and more dispensable than Minato's, the Hokage who has more years of life ahead of him? At the very least, you can think before you exclaim something to be a fail.

He didn't deal with the Kyuubi because he couldn't, all he could do was stall. You said that because Orochimaru stated that, "if this was ten years ago... blah blah" implied that Hiruzen in his prime was the strongest kage. Well, this time frame that Kyuubi attacked was ten years ago, and Hiruzen couldn't do shit. So once again, how does Orochimaru's statement imply that Hiruzen in his prime was the strongest kage?



Wow, are we referring to the same databook that gave Hidan a 5 in ninjutsu and 4.5 in taijutsu? He has displayed no ninjutsu and yet he was put on par/above people like Kakashi, Itachi, Kisame, etc.? And since when does randomly swinging around your scythe warrant you a taijutsu prowess that surpasses Kakuzu's? The same databook that has Rock Lee's taijutsu above Iruka's, and yet, Sasuke's taijutsu lower than Iruka's after copying Lee and despite Gai stating that Sasuke's taijutsu overlapped Lee's? Seriously, let's not get into the databook



How does this make sense? She has high chakra, the strength of a jutsu depends on how much chakra they put into a jutsu, but she doesn't have strong chakra, therefore her ninjutsu isn't strong. Let me repeat: the strength of a jutsu depends on how much chakra they put into it, Tsunade has high chakra but her ninjutsu isn't strong... What?



Except that Itachi's Katon Goukakyuu no jutsu didn't overpower Sasuke's, if it did what would be the point in him using Amaterasu?



What? The Preta path turned into stone because he lacked the training and discipline to control the Sennin chakra, which was the same thing happening to Naruto before he completed the training. Jiraiya only needed the frogs to have them continually drawing the Sennin chakra for him so he didn't have a timer unlike Naruto and because he never perfected the training like Naruto.



That is simply dramatic effect, when we see Orochimaru fight Naruto his chakra isn't cracking the atmosphere is it? And anytime Jinchuurikis utilize their full power, their chakra doesn't crack the atmosphere (are we under the assumption that Hiruzen and Orochimaru's chakra strength surpasses that of Naruto's for example?)



Please do because I missed your point.



Iruka uses past-tense when talking about Hiruzen, everyone talking about Tobirama and Hashirama uses present-tense. That's more than enough of a contradiction, you just won't accept it. I seriously can't see how people think Iruka to be credible; Konohamaru would be more believable than this guy, seriously...

It's like this naruto has a lot of chakra but his, chakra has never been called strong. The same goes for tsunade she has a lot of chakra but its never been called strong.
Now I made a mistake on my first example it should read
Sasuke n itachi use the same fire style but sasuke overpowered itachi cuz he has more chakra to put into the jutsu.
Now the 2nd example

A person turns to stoned when they absorb natural energy cuz its so strong it over powers their chakra. That's why when naruto trained he had to learn to balance it out.
Now the final example
Nobody else chakra not even a tail beast has cause a changed in the atmosphere. The only other people I know to do this with spiritual energy would be super sayians.

 

[Dribbles]

The manga has called 3 people the strongest kage's of all time.

Yes, the manga is right. Hiruzen is a god among men. *Shoots fire bolts and uses a jutsu some other kage can use too*

 

[Manga boy]

Yaa correct