Hashirama rumor?

[Omnipotent]

Hey nobody has proven this manga statement wrong yet.

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First scan is fake with that extra text.
Was said to be the strongest of all by who? We don't know, so the only person we can take as saying that is Iruka. And he knows nothing of Hashirama/Tobirama, and didn't have a display of Minato's abilities, and this is prior to Tsunade becoming Hokage.

The youngest we've seen Hiruzen actually doing something was when he was 57, 12 years prior to the start of Naruto, and his feats still aren't all that impressive (you can't say he was "old" then, I mean Jiraiya was 54 and Orochimaru is 54/55).

I don't really argue in a vs match between the two, because it's already been stated that Hiruzen is the strongest hokage, and it's pointless considering Hiruzen has every jutsu under his belt (excluding kkg) to say that he has no counter for it. Even still, I'm not saying it's impossible for Hashirama to win since every shinobi can be beaten.


Until I see the viz scan, this statement doesn't even make sense.

Spoiler

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It doesn't make sense that "Hashirama" had them under his control, and then started spreading them after each great ninja war, he died in the first war. -__- Which can only mean they were under the "control" of konoha, and in which case the word "control" comes into question here.

Every jutsu excluding KKG? You do realize that's a hyperbole, correct? Have we seen 1000 jutsu from Kakashi? Does he really have exactly 1000 jutsu? Who would have been there to display Hiruzen display every single jutsu, even if he knew them all? Where was Hiruzen stated to have been able to use Edo Tensei?

And what would this counter be? You're using assumptions. Yes, every shinobi can be beaten.

Ah, If Hashirama can actually control their minds, then I say it doesn't look too good for Hiruzen. :/ Although, I don't think too highly of the decision to bring the beasts into the picture. In which case, Hashirama doesn't have the feat of defeating Madara+kyuubi. Only Madara. Especially if you're the one who has been using this as a feat. It just looks bad as a debater to go back and take away what you yourself has used a feat so your fave character can win. It's a signal to stop, because nothing can change your mind. In this scenario, it would Hiruzen vs Hashirama+Multiple tailed beasts.

Are you sure? Kurama was still under Madara's possession with the sharingan; after the battle Hashirama is shown looking at Kurama (which means Kurama was suppressed). I only made up that scenario because we haven't seen that Hashirama in action, to match that we haven't seen 'Prime' Hiruzen in action.

Hashirama, my favorite character?

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[sage22]

First scan is fake with that extra text.
Was said to be the strongest of all by who? We don't know, so the only person we can take as saying that is Iruka. And he knows nothing of Hashirama/Tobirama, and didn't have a display of Minato's abilities, and this is prior to Tsunade becoming Hokage.

The youngest we've seen Hiruzen actually doing something was when he was 57, 12 years prior to the start of Naruto, and his feats still aren't all that impressive (you can't say he was "old" then, I mean Jiraiya was 54 and Orochimaru is 54/55).



Every jutsu excluding KKG? You do realize that's a hyperbole, correct? Have we seen 1000 jutsu from Kakashi? Does he really have exactly 1000 jutsu? Who would have been there to display Hiruzen display every single jutsu, even if he knew them all? Where was Hiruzen stated to have been able to use Edo Tensei?

And what would this counter be? You're using assumptions. Yes, every shinobi can be beaten.

Ok yes the first scan has an extra txt. But iruka said he was the strongest now everyone may think that iruka statement is bias but meta be honesty he's a school teacher I'm sure his facts r straight. Now I know for a fact iruka is in the same generation of kakashi n with that being said he was their when minato fought obito n kurma. So I'm sure iruka would know who is stronger between those 2. I will not dispute that we have not seen the god of shinobi that oro was talking about but his hype is byfar the best except for the sage himself even tho they both got the exact same nickname. But at least u seen like you kinda know what you talking about cuz ur right every shinobi can be defeat.

 

[Disquiet]

First scan is fake with that extra text.
Was said to be the strongest of all by who? We don't know, so the only person we can take as saying that is Iruka. And he knows nothing of Hashirama/Tobirama, and didn't have a display of Minato's abilities, and this is prior to Tsunade becoming Hokage.

The youngest we've seen Hiruzen actually doing something was when he was 57, 12 years prior to the start of Naruto, and his feats still aren't all that impressive (you can't say he was "old" then, I mean Jiraiya was 54 and Orochimaru is 54/55).



Every jutsu excluding KKG? You do realize that's a hyperbole, correct? Have we seen 1000 jutsu from Kakashi? Does he really have exactly 1000 jutsu? Who would have been there to display Hiruzen display every single jutsu, even if he knew them all? Where was Hiruzen stated to have been able to use Edo Tensei?

And what would this counter be? You're using assumptions. Yes, every shinobi can be beaten.



Are you sure? Kurama was still under Madara's possession with the sharingan; after the battle Hashirama is shown looking at Kurama (which means Kurama was suppressed). I only made up that scenario because we haven't seen that Hashirama in action, to match that we haven't seen 'Prime' Hiruzen in action.

Hashirama, my favorite character?

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....It's stated in the manga. It's something the writer wanted the readers to know. Apparently the so6p never existed or created the moon, or had two sons, or had the jutsu "creation of all things". Manga> opinion.



Lol I don't think you understand the context under which you're arguing. You're saying it Madara+Kyuubi vs Hashirama, correct?
Well still, it would be Hashirama+multiplie tailed beast vs Hiruzen. So that scenario is pointless. :/

 

[Omnipotent]

....It's stated in the manga. It's something the writer wanted the readers to know. Apparently the so6p never existed or created the moon, or had two sons, or had the jutsu "creation of all things". Manga> opinion.



Lol I don't think you understand the context under which you're arguing. You're saying it Madara+Kyuubi vs Hashirama, correct?
Well still, it would be Hashirama+multiplie tailed beast vs Hiruzen. So that scenario is pointless. :/

So, according to your logic, it's fact that the sharingan derived from the byakugan? Is it also fact that the rinnegan is a mutation, and that the SO6P is a myth?

Yes, yes I am.
How is that scenario pointless? They would be a part of his arsenal, just as Kurama was a part of EMS Madara's arsenal in his fight against Hashirama, and as how Enma was a part of Hiruzen's arsenal.

 

[Disquiet]

So, according to your logic, it's fact that the sharingan derived from the sharingan? Is it also fact that the rinnegan is a mutation, and that the SO6P is a myth?

Yes, yes I am.
How is that scenario pointless? They would be a part of his arsenal, just as Kurama was a part of EMS Madara's arsenal in his fight against Hashirama, and as how Enma was a part of Hiruzen's arsenal.

Show me the pages where it states this, and I'll have my answer.


Well okay, you admit that it's Hiruzen vs Hashirama+multiple tailed beast, I have no problem with that....

 

[Omnipotent]

Show me the pages where it states this, and I'll have my answer.


Well okay, you admit that it's Hiruzen vs Hashirama+multiple tailed beast, I have no problem with that....

Here you go:

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That's only if they include this virtually nonexistent 'Prime' Hiruzen who we haven't seen in action; this Hashirama is nonexistent as well. The youngest we can use him is at age 57, and his feats still aren't all that impressive.

Hiruzen's not on his own, y'know. He still has Enma.

So, on normal circumstances it's: Hiruzen + Enma vs Hashirama.

I still don't see where Hiruzen counters flower power or mokuton clone jutsu

 

[wolfx]

Who started or got the ideas that hashirama is or was the strongest hokage? A lot of people say kishi changed his mind or whatever but where in the manga do anyone get the idea that hashirama was better than any other kage?
Can someone please give me some actually facts

Bro, you haven't been reading naruto have you? Hashirama was (to put it bluntly) on some OTHER level.

 

[sage22]

Here you go:

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That's only if they include this virtually nonexistent 'Prime' Hiruzen who we haven't seen in action; this Hashirama is nonexistent as well. The youngest we can use him is at age 57, and his feats still aren't all that impressive.

Hiruzen's not on his own, y'know. He still has Enma.

So, on normal circumstances it's: Hiruzen + Enma vs Hashirama.

I still don't see where Hiruzen counters flower power or mokuton clone jutsu

You my friend have earned my respect n u have good points. Hiruzen hasn't been shown to know any way of stopping hashirama flowers and his clone but hiruzen was hashirama only known student and a student of tobirama. so its more than likely he knows how to counter all of hashirama powers. Also I wouod like to point out that even tho we now know the shariugan isn't deprived from the byukagun iruka statement have not been dismissed or proven wrong.

 

[sage22]

Bro, you haven't been reading naruto have you? Hashirama was (to put it bluntly) on some OTHER level.

So ur saying this is wrong

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[Disquiet]

Here you go:

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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That's only if they include this virtually nonexistent 'Prime' Hiruzen who we haven't seen in action; this Hashirama is nonexistent as well. The youngest we can use him is at age 57, and his feats still aren't all that impressive.

Hiruzen's not on his own, y'know. He still has Enma.

So, on normal circumstances it's: Hiruzen + Enma vs Hashirama.

I still don't see where Hiruzen counters flower power or mokuton clone jutsu

First: As of now, yes. Kishi hasn't disproved it. "Is the sharingan derived from the byakugan?" Uhm..no. Does the Uchiha clan's origin's lie with the Hyuga clan? Most likely, yes. However, it has never been stated in the databook unlike Hiruzen's title.

Second: "It's something the writer wants the reader to know." Quoting myself. Tobi makes it clear it wasn't a myth. -__- The writer is showing that other thought it was a myth, but it wasn't...this is the idea that Kishi is putting out, this is what he wants readers to know.


So now, again. According to your logic. The so6p never existed? Hashi never created the leaf village or controlled the beasts?



Lol , that's others. The manga already states that he's the strongest hokage. I'm not saying he needs Enma. :/ Like I said, unless the writer proves otherwise, he's the strongest and has mastered every jutsu in Konoha (aside from KKG), it's illogical to argue whether he has a counter. A vs match between the two with only what has been shown just isn't logical.

 

[wolfx]

So ur saying this is wrong

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Iight, the 3rd was up there in skill, but come back at me when the third uses Wood style jutsus to create his own village, give tailed beasts to other village, tame the tailed beasts, best friend his rival (Madara), and be the only one who can beat him.

Side note* it says the strongest of all, it could have been referring to all the people in the village, but not kages.

 

[sage22]

Iight, the 3rd was up there in skill, but come back at me when the third uses Wood style jutsus to create his own village, give tailed beasts to other village, tame the tailed beasts, best friend his rival (Madara), and be the only one who can beat him.

Side note* it says the strongest of all, it could have been referring to all the people in the village, but not kages.

I'm not doubt hashirama power at all. Based on what abilities we know the hokages have hashirama is clearly a head above the others. My only point is iruka statement hasn't been disproved. Madara did say only hashirama could beat him but that statement has nothing to do with the other kages. kabuto said none of the current shinobi are on hashirama level but besides tsunde who sucks imo that statement doesn't include the former kages. Do u get my point.

 

[LegendaryAce]

You know what people who say hiruzen is stronger never really tell you how he could beat hashirama

I've heard hiruzen can get away easy ?

But tell me this

This will come down to stamina
How will hiruzen damage hashirama
Mokuton clones ?
World tree
Pollen
All the senju chakra
Wood dragon
And he uses weapons
He can grow trees from his body
Mid ranged or short range he has the upper hand

What we know of hiruzen there is nothing he could do to take on hashirama at all

And hiruzen is hailed as? By who

Pain was hailed as a god ( self appointed ) but my point is if that story travels around people will eventually believe he is some god ( if e was still alive) his powers are something people had never seen before yes ? Some might even doubt them those who saw them but didn't know how they worked they would subconsciously believe he is a god in a sense ?

Why do I say this .. Hashiramas fairytale hype is just as good as hiruzens god of shinobi the only reason he even has that tbh is because he learnt all those jutsu in konoha

People like to downplay hype and boost up the one they are trying to justify ... If you reply saying hiruzen > hashirama make me a detailed thread saying how he counters all of hashiramas techs consider hype and feats and add all you can THEN will I admit what you say is true if you can't and post that hailed as the strongest panel then hashirama > hiruzen (prime or not)

Also hashirama an Tobirama were hailed the best shinobi - this was used while hiruzen was still alive
And there are so many hype moments hashirama gets mentioned ... Just admit he is way stronger than hiruzen I can see hiruzen struggling to beat Tobirama let alone minato

 

[sage22]

You know what people who say hiruzen is stronger never really tell you how he could beat hashirama

I've heard hiruzen can get away easy ?

But tell me this

This will come down to stamina
How will hiruzen damage hashirama
Mokuton clones ?
World tree
Pollen
All the senju chakra
Wood dragon
And he uses weapons
He can grow trees from his body
Mid ranged or short range he has the upper hand

What we know of hiruzen there is nothing he could do to take on hashirama at all

And hiruzen is hailed as? By who

Pain was hailed as a god ( self appointed ) but my point is if that story travels around people will eventually believe he is some god ( if e was still alive) his powers are something people had never seen before yes ? Some might even doubt them those who saw them but didn't know how they worked they would subconsciously believe he is a god in a sense ?

Why do I say this .. Hashiramas fairytale hype is just as good as hiruzens god of shinobi the only reason he even has that tbh is because he learnt all those jutsu in konoha

People like to downplay hype and boost up the one they are trying to justify ... If you reply saying hiruzen > hashirama make me a detailed thread saying how he counters all of hashiramas techs consider hype and feats and add all you can THEN will I admit what you say is true if you can't and post that hailed as the strongest panel then hashirama > hiruzen (prime or not)

Also hashirama an Tobirama were hailed the best shinobi - this was used while hiruzen was still alive
And there are so many hype moments hashirama gets mentioned ... Just admit he is way stronger than hiruzen I can see hiruzen struggling to beat Tobirama let alone minato

Kishi disagree with u

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[LegendaryAce]

Kishi disagree with u

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Out of curiosity

He was said to be strongest of all ?

Refers to who

Village at the time?
Narutoverse?
Kages currently ?
Ninja world at that time ?

Among who does that refer to exactly ?

 

[sage22]

Out of curiosity

He was said to be strongest of all ?
iruka was talking the the kids about the hokages that's why he said the 3rd was the strongest.
Refers to who
hiruzen sarutobi
Village at the time?village ever
Narutoverse?god of the narutoverse along with sage
Kages currently ?kages ever
Ninja world at that time ? of all time

Among who does that refer to exactly ?

Read the bold.

 

[LegendaryAce]

Read the bold.

We are done you win! I never knew hiruzen was strong enough to be as strong as so6p .. I think I read the wrong manga or something

 

[sage22]

We are done you win! I never knew hiruzen was strong enough to be as strong as so6p .. I think I read the wrong manga or something

Let me clear this up. I didn't mean hiruzen is equal to the sage. I meant they have the same nickname as god of shinobi

 

[LegendaryAce]

Let me clear this up. I didn't mean hiruzen is equal to the sage. I meant they have the same nickname as god of shinobi

But if hiruzen is superior to the Narutoverse he then > the sage even

The juubi is also counted in that

 

[sage22]

But if hiruzen is superior to the Narutoverse he then > the sage even

The juubi is also counted in that

I apologized I don't think I made myself clear. I don't think or believe hiruzen is superior to the narutoverse. I don't even think hiruzen could defeat hashirama in a 1v1. My only point is even tho hashirama has gotten a lot stronger than part1 kishi hasn't had anyone counter his previous statements made about hiruzen.