Rinnegan & chakra affinities: Kabuto Oro Tobi Tobirama Madara Nagato So6P Uzumaki

ImNoOne

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
1,972
Reaction score
252
I was wondering.

With time and hard training it seems pretty obvious that one can use all chakra affinities. Although one might not master them one can use them. And this seems to be fairly easy.

If you pick Nagato he has Rinnegan and is an Uzumaki and therefore he can use all chakra affinities on his own. But it doesn't end there.

In Edo Tensei the user is controlling the dead but in order to force them into using their techniques especially once you've taken out their minds for full length control you must know how to preform the techniques yourself otherwise you woulnd be able to preform them.
Another perspective on this issue is if you look at the to two shinobi with the same amount and chakra affinity. One is fairly experienced and the other is rather less experienced. The less experienced one will have to learn the signs and chakra flow streams regarding techniques in order to be able to preform them in the same level of the more experienced one. What eventually makes their techniques to balance and become equal is the fact they both have the same chakra affinity. With that being said, it does not mean that a shinobi who does not have said chakra affinity can't learn and preform to a certain extent the technique, required that we're talking of a basic level technique. And, for sure, extrapolating one can learn how to perform high level techniques without being able to perform them for lack of chakra affinity.

This logic leads me to believe that when, for example, Kabuto takes an Edo mind away and makes high level Ninjutso with all sorts of chakra elements he is preforming them himself, via the Edo's body who has the chakra affinity.
The same could be said about all other Edo users, showing that learning how to manipulate all chakra affinities has more to do with how intelligent you are and less to do with how powerful and naturally talented you are.

Following this logic one has to put in cause the affirmation that Rinnegan grants you the ability to use all chakra affinities, it might surely enhance the learning process or even power boost them, but it most likely is not per se enough to grant you all chakra affinities.
Empowering this statement goes both Madara and Obito. Both extremely intelligent and naturally talented, both extremely powerful and yet only time we've seen Obito using all chakra affinities was when he was controlling the jinchuriki Edos, as for Madara we've never seen him using all chakra affinities at all. Their natural affinity is fire and they both can use Mokuton, which is water plus earth, but that is because of Hashirama's cells and not because of the Rinnegan. None of them can use lightning or wind on their own.
As for Nagato the eyes alone were enough for him to use all chakra affinities. Just like the So6P, yet no one claims Nagato to be more intelligent and naturally talented or more powerful then Madara.

So my theory ends up with the following conclusion;

Rinnegan alone does not grant you the means to master all chakra elements. The only active Naruto character who has been proven to master all chakra affinities via Rinnegan excluding So6P was Nagato.
This conclusions implies that either Nagato was a God and a Genieous far beyond Madara and Obito or...

Uzumaki are closer related to the sage than the Uchiha. As the Uchiha are proven to be descendant from the Sage himself and are considered to be half the sage, for the Uzumaki to be closer than that it must mean that they are prior to the Sage himself. Meaning that the Uzumaki are related to the Sage before the sage himself this means family, that the Sage was himself an Uzumaki.

The logic is simple either one or the other. I personally believe in the second as it would make sense for the son who believed love was the key to peace to relate more easily with his father's clan then the one who believed power was the key.

What do you think?
 

MrSimple

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Veteran
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
2,062
Reaction score
358
Re: Rinnegan & chakra affinities: Kabuto Oro Tobi Tobirama Madara Nagato So6P Uzumaki

I can only agree with the last part if it's Naruto but at the same time it's a contradiction which is why I can't agree with this thread.
 

DeadManWonderLand

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
7,167
Reaction score
712
Re: Rinnegan & chakra affinities: Kabuto Oro Tobi Tobirama Madara Nagato So6P Uzumaki

Kakashi stated your chakra has one affinity nature and most jonin are able to learn 2 more that is 3 nobody is able to learn all five let alone master them other then a rinnegan user.
 

DeadManWonderLand

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
7,167
Reaction score
712
Re: Rinnegan & chakra affinities: Kabuto Oro Tobi Tobirama Madara Nagato So6P Uzumaki

To the other part of your thread i agree

uzumaki(sage) takes in bijuu and at that point become one then the sage has two sons one gets his yin nature the other gets yang nature the power of the sage is then split between them with the uchiha taking on characteristics of the bijuu while the senju ancestor takes on characteristics of the sage himself which is why the senju and uzumaki seem to share a deeper connection :)

but if i were to break it down into specifics it would go like this

the uchiha ancestor manifest the spiritual chakra into his eyes the yin nature while taking on juubi traits while the senju ancestor take on the life force (yang nature ) and traits of the uzumaki out of the three traits the senju took two with the uzumaki retaining the longevity.
 

ImNoOne

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
1,972
Reaction score
252
Re: Rinnegan & chakra affinities: Kabuto Oro Tobi Tobirama Madara Nagato So6P Uzumaki

Kakashi stated your chakra has one affinity nature and most jonin are able to learn 2 more that is 3 nobody is able to learn all five let alone master them other then a rinnegan user.

The point is that not all Rinnegan users can learn/master all elements or even more that they already had without Rinnegan apart from Nagato and the Sage himself.

Plus further on on the manga Kakashi also says that this limit of 3 has to do with the time it takes to master elements. Kakashi himself has lightning, earth and water being the last the one he least excels. Kakashi is 30 something... if he was to live another lets say 200 years he might have been able to master them all.
He tells this to Naruto when Naruto is training to create Fuuton Rasengan Shuriken.
 

ImNoOne

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
1,972
Reaction score
252
Re: Rinnegan & chakra affinities: Kabuto Oro Tobi Tobirama Madara Nagato So6P Uzumaki

To the other part of your thread i agree

uzumaki(sage) takes in bijuu and at that point become one then the sage has two sons one gets his yin nature the other gets yang nature the power of the sage is then split between them with the uchiha taking on characteristics of the bijuu while the senju ancestor takes on characteristics of the sage himself which is why the senju and uzumaki seem to share a deeper connection :)

but if i were to break it down into specifics it would go like this

the uchiha ancestor manifest the spiritual chakra into his eyes the yin nature while taking on juubi traits while the senju ancestor take on the life force (yang nature ) and traits of the uzumaki out of the three traits the senju took two with the uzumaki retaining the longevity.

I agree with that, I wasn't entering there because although that makes sense it doesn't logically prove that the Sage was an Uzumaki, while my approach does.
 

dirklyn

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
19
Re: Rinnegan & chakra affinities: Kabuto Oro Tobi Tobirama Madara Nagato So6P Uzumaki

I can't really agree to it fully
 

ImNoOne

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
1,972
Reaction score
252
Re: Rinnegan & chakra affinities: Kabuto Oro Tobi Tobirama Madara Nagato So6P Uzumaki

I can't really agree to it fully

Agree on what? The logic of it or the conclusion I picked?
 

Champ

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
11,143
Reaction score
661
Re: Rinnegan & chakra affinities: Kabuto Oro Tobi Tobirama Madara Nagato So6P Uzumaki

How are you goin against the manga anyone with the Rinnegan can learn all the elements fast.
You must be registered for see images
 

ImNoOne

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
1,972
Reaction score
252
Re: Rinnegan & chakra affinities: Kabuto Oro Tobi Tobirama Madara Nagato So6P Uzumaki

How are you goin against the manga anyone with the Rinnegan can learn all the elements fast.
You must be registered for see images

How exactly am I going against the manga here? I didn't say that the Rinnegan didn't enabled Nagato to master all chakra affinities. What I said was that the Rinnegan doesn't do that for everybody, which is the same as saying it doesn't do it on it's own.

By itself the Rinnegan is not enough to unlock all chakra affinities. I suggest you read carefully before you jump onto wrong conclusions and and claim that I'm saying things I didn't say.
 

Champ

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
11,143
Reaction score
661
Re: Rinnegan & chakra affinities: Kabuto Oro Tobi Tobirama Madara Nagato So6P Uzumaki

How exactly am I going against the manga here? I didn't say that the Rinnegan didn't enabled Nagato to master all chakra affinities. What I said was that the Rinnegan doesn't do that for everybody, which is the same as saying it doesn't do it on it's own.

By itself the Rinnegan is not enough to unlock all chakra affinities. I suggest you read carefully before you jump onto wrong conclusions and and claim that I'm saying things I didn't say.

If Nagato a kid was able to master them. Madara & Obito can as well. The Rinnegan allowed him to use all the element in the manga. Jiraiya doesn't even possess all the elements to fully help him master them, so the Rinnegan was the source of him mastering them all so fast. If a 10 year kid can do it, a grown man like Madara & Obito won't break a sweat mastering the elements.
 

ImNoOne

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
1,972
Reaction score
252
Re: Rinnegan & chakra affinities: Kabuto Oro Tobi Tobirama Madara Nagato So6P Uzumaki

If Nagato a kid was able to master them. Madara & Obito can as well. The Rinnegan allowed him to use all the element in the manga. Jiraiya doesn't even possess all the elements to fully help him master them, so the Rinnegan was the source of him mastering them all so fast. If a 10 year kid can do it, a grown man like Madara & Obito won't break a sweat mastering the elements.

Precisely my point, hence why the obvious conclusion, as neither Obito nor Madara have shown any proof of being able to do so, must be that the Rinnegan alone does not grant you the ability to master all elements. The other option would be to assume that Nagato was more talented and a better shinobi when he was a kid then Madara after all his gigantic life. Obviously the first is more probable.. Rinnegan alone doesn't make it, you have to be an Uzumaki.
 

Champ

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
11,143
Reaction score
661
Re: Rinnegan & chakra affinities: Kabuto Oro Tobi Tobirama Madara Nagato So6P Uzumaki

Precisely my point, hence why the obvious conclusion, as neither Obito nor Madara have shown any proof of being able to do so, must be that the Rinnegan alone does not grant you the ability to master all elements. The other option would be to assume that Nagato was more talented and a better shinobi when he was a kid then Madara after all his gigantic life. Obviously the first is more probable.. Rinnegan alone doesn't make it, you have to be an Uzumaki.

Haha so just cause Madara & Obito aren't shown usin other elements, or any Rinnegan abilities they don't have them? Another reason why this thread fails. Well the manga tells us anyone with the Rinnegan masters all the elements quick, and ofcourse Manga > You.
 

ImNoOne

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
1,972
Reaction score
252
Re: Rinnegan & chakra affinities: Kabuto Oro Tobi Tobirama Madara Nagato So6P Uzumaki

Haha so just cause Madara & Obito aren't shown usin other elements, or any Rinnegan abilities they don't have them? Another reason why this thread fails. Well the manga tells us anyone with the Rinnegan masters all the elements quick, and ofcourse Manga > You.

Only that both Madara and Obito have been shown to be using Rinnegan abilities, unlike what you are claiming, and the manga doesn't say "anyone with the Rinnegan masters all the elements quick", it says that Nagato thanks to the Rinnegan was able to master all the elements. In fact Obito and Madara seem to be able to use all of the Rinnegan related abilities.. all but the 5 elements mastery.

The premiss you are using isn't unusual. I myself, when I first thought of this theory had doubts concerning what the manga said, but when I re-read the issues it was clear that the whole thing was a false premiss, an assumption, but in the end nothing more than speculation.

Thus far it's crystal clear that the only one that was able to use all elements was Nagato, Madara and Obito can't. Therefore, and as we have the absolute certainty that the only thing changing from case to case are the users as the eyes itself are always the same (Madara's brother eyes) the difference must be in the users. Nagato, an Uzumaki, was able to master all 5 elements in a short while (a year maybe) during his training with Jiraiya, but a much more mature, experienced and wise Madara, an Uchiha, couldn't. Basic math will show you that Madara lived many years between unlocking the Rinnegan and saving Obito so time isn't an excuse.
 
Top