(Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

[Draegod]

I refuted you point, and you instantly make this into a VS thread, and also made conditions to you advantage?

I'll follow suit.

Itachi uses Tsukyomi before Neji closes his eyes.

Ill jump in at this point, it isnt that easy! Itachi has too make direct eye contact and Activate MS to use tsukuyomi, it isnt a instant tech like you think it is.. Otherwise he would of used tsukuyomi on kabuto at the very beginning...

 

[Bogard]

@PuppyDogGeneral You talk about genjutsu as a problem forgetting that a non-Hyuga Byakugan user was able to fight the most powerful genjutsu user in the Uchiha clan(Shisui) and lived from the confrontation:

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He even said that his Byakugan was powerful enough to see thru the genjutsu placed on the 4th Mizukage, what an entire village wasn't able to notice, a genjutsu who was even compared to Shishui's KA:

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A non-Hyuga was able to do that, so just imagine a true Hyuga using his Byakugan at full power

 

[Retsu]

I must say of all the topics I've seen this is the most detailed and unbiased thread I've read in a LOOOOOONG time. Excellent topic, I really look at hyuugas different now, great work.

 

[Unbiased]

Limited... In the end he didn't know anything past his 3-Tomoe Sharingan until Itachi's arrival... Oh, btw, there's no stopping Tsukuyomi, Itachi's Tsukuyomi, specifically, as it doesn't work in real time.... He distorts time and stretches 3 days in his world less than 3 seconds, much faster than the body could actually react and the fact that they're restricted in any type of movement if it's in the user's will. And not every Hyuuga is a master of their Byakugan, Neji was a special case, those of the main branch would attain the secret techniques, while every other Hyuuga was left in the dust with a basic knowledge of the Byakugan.

Tsukuyomi is worthless as the byakugan can work with the eye closed. AO is a prime example of someone using the byakugan with the eye closed.

I refuted you point, and you instantly make this into a VS thread, and also made conditions to you advantage?

I'll follow suit.

Itachi uses Tsukyomi before Neji closes his eyes.

How is this a vs thread? I simply stated eyesight is not necessary but i'll play along. Neji learned from gai not to make eye contact with Itachi so he kept his eyes closed from the start while having byakugan active.

 

[Owarij]

Until proven otherwise the statement is truth. Where in the manga does it disprove kakashi's statement.

And that is a logical fallacy.. You are asserting a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false... You cannot use that in a debate ...It is an appeal to ignorance
argumentum ad ignorantiam

 

[Unbiased]

Not here to argue that.. There is a possibility for everything.. and I can't exclude that possibility for the sake of my argument....
Look at how this argument started up

This scan

Spoiler

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I could careless about which clan came first in the so6p time

But kakashi there said that Hyuuga is the leaf's bloodline...
From what we know as FACT , hyuuga and Uchiha are two different clans, with two different blood lines, different fighting styles everyhing..

I corrected OP by saying , When it comes to KONOHA.. Fact is, The oldest clans were Senju and Uchiha, since they joined together to literally create the village...

Then he replied with a THEORY, yes , it is a rumor and a theory of the origins of hyuuga/uchiha
This is a debate, and we can both theorize all we want... but we are supposed to use facts ..The thread topic even states -Facts and Manga pages.....

"hyuuga and Uchiha are two different clans, with two different blood lines, different fighting styles everyhing.." Where is the fact that states they're two different blood lines? Where does it specifically state they are two different blood lines? Last I heard the orgins lie within the hyuuga clan. Therefore giving the hyuuga relation to the elder son.

 

[Unbiased]

And that is a logical fallacy.. You are asserting a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false... You cannot use that in a debate ...It is an appeal to ignorance
argumentum ad ignorantiam

Kishimoto stated in his manga "They say the Uchiha's orgins lie with the hyuuga." So to answer your question as to who are they, they are kishimoto. No where is this statement refuted in the manga so your claim is defeated.

 

[Draegod]

Not here to argue that.. There is a possibility for everything.. and I can't exclude that possibility for the sake of my argument....
Look at how this argument started up

This scan

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

I could careless about which clan came first in the so6p time

But kakashi there said that Hyuuga is the leaf's bloodline...
From what we know as FACT , hyuuga and Uchiha are two different clans, with two different blood lines, different fighting styles everyhing..

I corrected OP by saying , When it comes to KONOHA.. Fact is, The oldest clans were Senju and Uchiha, since they joined together to literally create the village...

Then he replied with a THEORY, yes , it is a rumor and a theory of the origins of hyuuga/uchiha
This is a debate, and we can both theorize all we want... but we are supposed to use facts ..The thread topic even states -Facts and Manga pages.....

True the uchiha and seju was both number one when creating the leaf village (everyone else followed, just making the village diverse! Could you imagine the senju and uchihas Doing one another??? -__- lol).

 

[Koha]

Tsukuyomi is worthless as the byakugan can work with the eye closed. AO is a prime example of someone using the byakugan with the eye closed.

Sight is sight... Get caught and that's it, and more than likely a Hyuuga will have next to NO PRIOR knowledge on the Mangekyou Sharingan..... You made it a bit one-sided. As far as the story goes right now, the Hyuuga still only have knowledge on the 3-Tomoe Sharingan. Seeing as how none of them fought a Mangekyou Sharingan user... Let's think realistically here. No tipping scales.

 

[Owarij]

Kishimoto stated in his manga "They say the Uchiha's orgins lie with the hyuuga." So to answer your question as to who are they, they are kishimoto. No where is this statement refuted in the manga so your claim is defeated.

They, are ninjas and other citizens of the Narutoverse.. you are once again assuming that everything that comes out a character's mouth is fact and said by kishi himself..

They say Sasuke killed Zabuza.. Is that true?
They say the so6p never existed...Is that true?
They say that Hashirama's strength is a fairytail ... Is that true?

Rumors and hearsay aren't fact... in no way what so ever....there are hundreds of other cases in the manga...

"hyuuga and Uchiha are two different clans, with two different blood lines, different fighting styles everyhing.." Where is the fact that states they're two different blood lines? Where does it specifically state they are two different blood lines? Last I heard the orgins lie within the hyuuga clan. Therefore giving the hyuuga relation to the elder son.

I am referring to what is listed in the databook

Sharingan is one Kekke genkai
Byakugan is another

 

[Unbiased]

Tsukuyomi is worthless as the byakugan can work with the eye closed. AO is a prime example of someone using the byakugan with the eye closed.

Sight is sight... Get caught and that's it, and more than likely a Hyuuga will have next to NO PRIOR knowledge on the Mangekyou Sharingan..... You made it a bit one-sided. As far as the story goes right now, the Hyuuga still only have knowledge on the 3-Tomoe Sharingan. Seeing as how none of them fought a Mangekyou Sharingan user... Let's think realistically here. No tipping scales.

I'm not, even kakashi had prior knowledge of the MS. The Uchiha clan was renowned for the MS and feared because of it according to itachi.

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So you think that the hyuuga wouldn't know?

 

[DESTRUCTO]

The last argument I have for this topic is the ninja world's desire for the byakugan. It was desired so much that the lesser branch was given cursed marks to dispose of their eyes at death to keep it from falling into the wrong hands. We don't here about that much desire for the sharingan. The uchiha body is a different story, because not only does it have their eyes but also their blood and powerful chakra, but Orochimaru solely wanted Itachi or Sasuke, he could have gotten his hands on some of the lesser clan members but he didn't.

Which one you prefer all depends on your preference. Is that redundant?

 

[Unbiased]

They, are ninjas and other citizens of the Narutoverse.. you are once again assuming that everything that comes out a character's mouth is fact and said by kishi himself..

They say Sasuke killed Zabuza.. Is that true?
They say the so6p never existed...Is that true?
They say that Hashirama's strength is a fairytail ... Is that true?

Rumors and hearsay aren't fact... in no way what so ever....there are hundreds of other cases in the manga...

Your posting statements that have been proven false in comparison to a statement that hasn't.

 

[Bogard]

Tsukuyomi is worthless as the byakugan can work with the eye closed. AO is a prime example of someone using the byakugan with the eye closed.

Sight is sight... Get caught and that's it, and more than likely a Hyuuga will have next to NO PRIOR knowledge on the Mangekyou Sharingan..... You made it a bit one-sided. As far as the story goes right now, the Hyuuga still only have knowledge on the 3-Tomoe Sharingan. Seeing as how none of them fought a Mangekyou Sharingan user... Let's think realistically here. No tipping scales.

How do you know that? The Hyuga clan is not really developped in this manga. So these are things we can't say for sure. For example, Ao(a Byakugan user) fought Shisui(a MS user) in the past and lived from the confrontation. When we know that Shisui was considered as the strongest genjutsu user in Uchiha clan and that he says his Byakugan was able to see thru genjutsus, it's clearly a feat

 

[Owarij]

Your posting statements that have been proven false in comparison to a statement that hasn't.

And your argument once again is based on a logical fallacy

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Please read this, then reply to me
Or read all the logical fallacies, it can only help

 

[Koha]

The last argument I have for this topic is the ninja world's desire for the byakugan. It was desired so much that the lesser branch was given cursed marks to dispose of their eyes at death to keep it from falling into the wrong hands. We don't here about that much desire for the sharingan. The uchiha body is a different story, because not only does it have their eyes but also their blood and powerful chakra, but Orochimaru solely wanted Itachi or Sasuke, he could have gotten his hands on some of the lesser clan members but he didn't.

Which one you prefer all depends on your preference. Is that redundant?

Lolz Nice... But most of the Ninja world believed the Uchiha to be exterminated except for Itachi, aside from Sasuke, since he wasn't very well known until the Chuunin exams. Plus, the Sharingan itself poses a bigger threat to a normal body than the Byakugan would, so there's an incentive to not go for the Sharingan. Danzo and Tobi were the ones who collected most of the remains of the Sharingan anyways. Sooooooo, where does that lead in the end? The desire for the next best thing, the Byakugan.

 

[Unbiased]

And your argument once again is based on a logical fallacy

You must be registered for see links

Please read this, then reply to me
Or read all the logical fallacies, it can only help

Your argument is based on absolutely nothing but the assumption it could be wrong with nothing disproving it. Come back to me with manga pages disproving it. Your saying it could be wrong even though you don't have any evidence it is. That's like me saying susanoo is made from cheese and that I could be right even though I don't have any evidence of it. You sound like an idiot.

 

[Amaterasuice]

Kakashi might've said Byakugan>Sharingan, but that was before Ms was introduced. Kishi might not have even thought of it.

Or Kakashi said that because with Ms you become blind.

Heck, he could've literally been saying Byakugan>regular sharingan.

But, if Byakugan was so great, why don't any of the villains wants byakugan instead of sharingan?

I read your post, but most was wrong.

 

[Koha]

How do you know that? The Hyuga clan is not really developped in this manga. So these are things we can't say for sure. For example, Ao(a Byakugan user) fought Shisui(a MS user) in the past and lived from the confrontation. When we know that Shisui was considered as the strongest genjutsu user in Uchiha clan and that he says his Byakugan was able to see thru genjutsus, it's clearly a feat

Ao isn't a Hyuuga though, so why involve him in this? He's a Mist Village Shinobi who killed a Hyuuga for his Byakugan........ And it was pretty obvious Shisui had a different moveset of his Mangekyou Sharigan than Itachi and Sasuke.

 

[Unbiased]

Kakashi might've said Byakugan>Sharingan, but that was before Ms was introduced. Kishi might not have even thought of it.

Or Kakashi said that because with Ms you become blind.

Heck, he could've literally been saying Byakugan>regular sharingan.

But, if Byakugan was so great, why don't any of the villains wants byakugan instead of sharingan?

I read your post, but most was wrong.

Many villains have gone after the byakugan. Kumo has gone after it before for example.

Ao isn't a Hyuuga though, so why involve him in this? He's a Mist Village Shinobi who killed a Hyuuga for his Byakugan........ And it was pretty obvious Shisui had a different moveset of his Mangekyou Sharigan than Itachi and Sasuke.

AO was in possession of the byakugan during his encounter therefore he is automatically involved by possession.