kakashi is weaker then whats shown (facts and manga pages)

[Unbiased]

Sorry to everyone who clicked on the first post, I ended it because the images wouldn't load and every image link became corrupted.

Like usual, I will post all manga pages in spoilers with their corresponding
section. Also anything that is bolded is important and needs to be remembered.
Kamui is a jutsu that allows the user to warp space and time. However each eye allows the
user to use different techniques. The left eye's primary use of Kamui is based on line of
sight and as such does not require physical contact to warp a target into the other
dimension. By focusing a barrier space and concentrating on that target, Kamui will
distort space and the target will be drawn into other dimension. When Kakashi first used
this technique, it required great concentration and was difficult to aim, dragging in only
Deidara's arm when he aimed for his head. By his reunion with sasuke, Kakashi was able to
use Kamui to stop Two undodge-able arrows indicating his mastery over
the Kamui
Kakashi normally has to be hospitalized after using kamui 3 times. (EX kakashi vs deidara)
(also to be noted after having half chakra he could only use kamui once and the next time
he would die meaning during the battle with pain at 100% chakra he can only use it 3 times
maximum and if he chooses to use it again he dies) When around Obito however he was
able to use it 5 times + multiple Raikiri(and variations) + some earth style.
Kakashi also has been seen after using Kamui twice that he cannot move his body
effectively as seen here

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Now kakashi has shown to completely master Kamui when facing sasuke by being able to warp
two arrows which are impossible to dodge one after the other.

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Here

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kakashi states that Obito's Kamui has the ability to DE-matierialize and
warp things while we have seen kakashi simply attack and "warp" things only around Obito.
Now here

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Obito clearly states that when both eyes are
together, their full powers can be unleashed. It is to be noted that Obito's Kamui
has never been used for offense like kakashi's thus proving the differences that
both eyes possess

To finish my explanation. Up until he went into combat with Obito, he was only able to use
kamui 3 times per day(as I have proven above). Now when facing Obito not
only is he not suffering the effects of blindness like he stated he was here

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and proof of that kakashi was speaking in direct
reference to himself is here

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but he is able to use it 5
times and can warp objects as large as the eight tails faster then obito can warp objects.

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With the information I have presented above and the manga pages written by kishimoto to
back up my argument, it is clear and evident that kakashi is only displaying these
extraordinary feats due to both eyes being within close proximity of each other. If you
have read my thread and still claim that kakashi is just as strong when he is not near
obito, then you are disagreeing with what the manga has stated.​

 

[markdabomb22]

Or it's just plot......I mean kakashi is playing a vital role in the story and kishi needs to keep kakashi in the picture regardless of his past restrictions. I don't think kishi is thinking week by week about making kakashi stamina/ability's more believable over the plots progression because from the writer's perspective it just wouldn't make sense. Also take into account kishi writing style. This guy leaves lots of plot holes that we are left to infer on what or why it happened so i would not be surprised if this was one of them.

 

[Sasuke082594]

Like i said earlier, people get stronger, there's nothing to prove.

 

[Sasuke082594]

Or it's just plot......I mean kakashi is playing a vital role in the story and kishi needs to keep kakashi in the picture regardless of his past restrictions. I don't think kishi is thinking week by week about making kakashi stamina/ability's more believable over the plots progression because from the writer's perspective it just wouldn't make sense. Also take into account kishi writing style. This guy leaves lots of plot holes that we are left to infer on what or why it happened so i would not be surprised if this was one of them.

Damn, i clicked the link

 

[HashiramaDescendant]

Nice, but I didn't read. xd

 

[Bogard]

So Obito is also significantly weaker than what we see right now? :|

 

[3MESSIAH]

kakashi is broken

 

[Unbiased]

Or it's just plot......I mean kakashi is playing a vital role in the story and kishi needs to keep kakashi in the picture regardless of his past restrictions. I don't think kishi is thinking week by week about making kakashi stamina/ability's more believable over the plots progression because from the writer's perspective it just wouldn't make sense. Also take into account kishi writing style. This guy leaves lots of plot holes that we are left to infer on what or why it happened so i would not be surprised if this was one of them.

I hate that your right on that one. I like to think everything is consistent but its not. I would like to think kishi remembered what he wrote 6 weeks ago that the eyes have their full potential when together but he probably doesn't.

So Obito is also significantly weaker than what we see right now? :|

I don't think he is as strong, the manga says that if the eyes are together their true power is unleashed.

 

[Noobastank]

No. i doubt his sharingan use is better since obito is there. i agree there must be a reason but i doubt its because he is within close proximity of Obito. this explanation makes little to no sense to me. obito says his combination with kakashi is better because he has the other eye. meaning when they are fighting on the same side their teamwork will be perfect. And with two kamui its impossible to defeat them both in my opinion. thats what i think he means by their combination being better. i believe kakashi's mastery of kamui has gotten to this point based off of constant usage. him warping sasuke's arrow is proof of his growing skill when before he took a long time to warp slower moving objects with little accuracy. (Deidara). i dont know why kakashi's skills have increased so much but its defiantly not because hes close to obito in my opinion.

 

[blazekev90]

Hmmm this didn't really prove anything for certain, but it's very well possible!! It's very obvious that this enhanced use of Kamui is being portrayed for some random reason, while it could be this, I'm going with Kish using his plot reasoning methods as usual.

The connection between their eyes enhancing its ability would be a good reason behind, especially once Kakashi was basically dead leaning over in Tobi's dimension. Therefore, I'll agree to some extent!

Edit: after reading that page again, I'll take it as Tobi explaining Kakashi's and his enhanced abilities. If Kakashi was able to see Minato is Naruto's speed and Tobi could just barely avoid his simple straightforward attacks, yet now avoid all of Naruto's high speed and unpredicted KM arms extending out. Hmmmm doesn't seem likely.

 

[Unbiased]

No. i doubt his sharingan use is better since obito is there. i agree there must be a reason but i doubt its because he is within close proximity of Obito. this explanation makes little to no sense to me. obito says his combination with kakashi is better because he has the other eye. meaning when they are fighting on the same side their teamwork will be perfect. And with two kamui its impossible to defeat them both in my opinion. thats what i think he means by their combination being better. i believe kakashi's mastery of kamui has gotten to this point based off of constant usage. him warping sasuke's arrow is proof of his growing skill when before he took a long time to warp slower moving objects with little accuracy. (Deidara). i dont know why kakashi's skills have increased so much but its defiantly not because hes close to obito in my opinion.

Well Obito and Madara did say that the eyes full power is unleashed if they are together. That quite frankly is a very big factor into what is going on.

 

[Bogard]

I don't think he is as strong, the manga says that if the eyes are together their true power is unleashed.

What you seem to forget is the side effect of the technique on his body, you also forget the chakra here. What does the power of the eye has to do with chakra or body? Kakashi doesn't have the Uchiha blood in his body, so the drain is greater. Just compare sharingan to MS. MS techniques drains more Kakashi than Sharingan. So on the contrary, if Kakashi received a superior dojutsu power if the eyes are together like you say, it will only takes more chakra for him to use it, and more the drain on the body as well. So he could only be able to use it fewer than usual and would end faster in a hospital bed

 

[EliteKakashi]

He's received a slight chakra boost and has been rejuvenated by the kyuubi a few times in this fight.

As far as how good he is at using kamui, it was hinted in that fight vs Sasuke that he had improved enough to instantly warp Tobi away. He had seen Tobi's ability to become invulnerable, so he knew it would have required an instant warp to send him to the other dimension, so every feat up until him warping the eight tails was understandable.

Warping the eight tails like that though is just a crock of shit.

 

[Prince Charles]

I disagree and your theory is not manga fact or proven so dont act
And if your theory is correct thqn it should also apply to obito which isnt true since obitod kamui have shown the same feats since day 1.

Its all about progression which kakashis kamui has been going through.
Throughout the manga since the deidara fight kakashis aiming and speed got tremendously better without being near obito at all.
Which proves his kamui is unlocking its true potential whether obito is there or not.

And when you think about it his MAIN TRUE feat in the war of kamui was being able to teleport from and to the kamui dimension.

Warping the bm clone nearly instantly and warping the 8 tails arent really new feats.

The 2 main feats shown so far was his kamui warping faster (bm clone) and warping from and to the kamui dimension.

So i disagree with you, its all about progression, obito being near him has nothing to do with it.

 

[Noobastank]

Well Obito and Madara did say that the eyes full power is unleashed if they are together. That quite frankly is a very big factor into what is going on.

I think he ment together as in when an uchiha has both sharingan.

 

[Unbiased]

What you seem to forget is the side effect of the technique on his body, you also forget the chakra here. What does the power of the eye has to do with chakra or body? Kakashi doesn't have the Uchiha blood in his body, so the drain is greater. Just compare sharingan to MS. MS techniques drains more Kakashi than Sharingan. So on the contrary, if Kakashi received a superior dojutsu power, it will only takes more chakra for him to use it, and more the drain on the body as well. So he could only be able to use it fewer than usual and would end faster in a hospital bed

That is also an excellent point as well. This is why I only included the 5 times he used Kamui before receiving chakra from Kurama. One thing that needs to be taken into consideration is what he is warping. When he is about to warp the Gedo Mazo's head, it took him some time to gather chakra.

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Now when warping the Kunai and rasengan in the fight, it took him little to no effort due to the amount of chakra is not as great as removing a head. When he warps Naruto's clone, he did not move while Gai and Kakashi covered for him thus implying and re-stating that it takes time for him to concentrate.

 

[Unbiased]

I disagree and your theory is not manga fact or proven so dont act
And if your theory is correct thqn it should also apply to obito which isnt true since obitod kamui have shown the same feats since day 1.

Its all about progression which kakashis kamui has been going through.
Throughout the manga since the deidara fight kakashis aiming and speed got tremendously better without being near obito at all.
Which proves his kamui is unlocking its true potential whether obito is there or not.

And when you think about it his MAIN TRUE feat in the war of kamui was being able to teleport from and to the kamui dimension.

Warping the bm clone nearly instantly and warping the 8 tails arent really new feats.

The 2 main feats shown so far was his kamui warping faster (bm clone) and warping from and to the kamui dimension.

So i disagree with you, its all about progression, obito being near him has nothing to do with it.

The Eight tails is significantly larger then the head of the gedo mazo yet he warped it on the fly. Therefore it is a testament to its true potential being unleashed throughout the fight. Kakashi must normally focus in order to warp anything and it took him some time to gather enough chakra to warp something significantly smaller then Gyuki therefore re-affirming my position on his powers being derived from being near Obito.

 

[Bogard]

That is also an excellent point as well. This is why I only included the 5 times he used Kamui before receiving chakra from Kurama. One thing that needs to be taken into consideration is what he is warping. When he is about to warp the Gedo Mazo's head, it took him some time to gather chakra.

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Now when warping the Kunai and rasengan in the fight, it took him little to no effort due to the amount of chakra is not as great as removing a head. When he warps Naruto's clone, he did not move while Gai and Kakashi covered for him thus implying and re-stating that it takes time for him to concentrate.

Well, the fact he used 5kamuis already shows that he improved as well since if we go by your theory, he can only use it 3times

 

[Unbiased]

Well, the fact he used 5kamuis already shows that he improved as well since if we go by your theory, he can only use it 3times

Well he hasn't exactly trained to increase his stamina in a while. The fight against sasuke displays him still staggering after using Kamui which wasn't too far behind the war. The fact that he can just warp the eight tails while running and keep going is just astounding seeing how the last major fight he was in(which wasn't too far behind) he couldn't even warp two arrows and run lol

 

[Prince Charles]

The Eight tails is significantly larger then the head of the gedo mazo yet he warped it on the fly. Therefore it is a testament to its true potential being unleashed throughout the fight. Kakashi must normally focus in order to warp anything and it took him some time to gather enough chakra to warp something significantly smaller then Gyuki therefore re-affirming my position on his powers being derived from being near Obito.

Considering the fact that the DB states theres no defence against kamui, it really shouldnt be a surprise that kakashi can kamui tailed beast to me atleast.

Besides the fact that kakashi was able to warp diedaras bombs as it was exploding

And the fact that he warped sasukes sussano arroew right infront of him seconds before it made impact.

All those cases obito was never ariund which applies to what i said progression, alsp the fact that kakashi could had the ability to warp to and from the demension for all this time but simply didnt know he can.