Who was the best water release (suiton) user?

[Owarij]

Well in that case, Tobirama should've flooded Konoha. But that wouldn't have done well for plot, would it?

You just stated they were scaled differently.

What part of toying with hiruzen is misunderstood? Orochimaru could have killed old hiruzen a long time ago, he never wanted to end the fight quickly... he wanted to torture him.. that's the whole point... and because of that hiruzen got to take his hands away..

And you do realize they were in a sealed off area right? hashi's trees, nor tobirama's water could get out

 

[Strict]

I don't know why Kisame is that overrated with his suiton techniques. Can someone tell me when Kisame has shown a suiton "attack" without watersource? Mei and Tobirama are the best suiton users for me

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Tobirama was using his Suiton technique out of his mouth, when the Anbu noted that he would be known for do this without a water source. So actually Kisame can do the same, too.

*Brings up Tobirama*

On another note, I thought it was obvious Kisame was better than Mei when it comes to suiton.

Tell it Blaze, who said something like this.

 

[Gdamon]

Tobirama most likely....

 

[Owarij]

I don't know why Kisame is that overrated with his suiton techniques. Can someone tell me when Kisame has shown a suiton "attack" without watersource? Mei and Tobirama are the best suiton users for me

??? I can list you like 500 ninjas in part 2 who used a suiton out their mouth.. mei, kisame, darui, itachi..the list goes on..

 

[Omnipotent]

What part of toying with hiruzen is misunderstood? Orochimaru could have killed old hiruzen a long time ago, he never wanted to end the fight quickly... he wanted to torture him.. that's the whole point... and because of that hiruzen got to take his hands away..

And you do realize they were in a sealed off area right? hashi's trees, nor tobirama's water could get out

I put that under plot. Had they tried, Hiruzen would've been less than a corpse, and Konoha wouldn't have survived the Invasion. Plot made them not try.

A seal held up by four fodder Jonin who Orochimaru could have called off after Hiruzen is finished. Konoha = done.

 

[TouchMyMangos]

kisame easy, tobirama can't match this

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if he can, show me the page.

 

[Bogard]

??? I can list you like 500 ninjas in part 2 who used a suiton out their mouth.. mei, kisame, darui, itachi..the list goes on..

I'm not asking who can create water from his mouth, but who can use suiton attacks without water source, something i've never seen Kisame capable to do. For me Kisame's advantage is his large chakra pool, which helps him to create a large water source, but in terms of skills, Mei for example has shown to be better since she is able to attack with her suiton with a huge suiton attack without water source

 

[Blaze Release]

Kisame is the favorite here. There is no equality between him and Mei Terumi, Blaze. Her Suiton Jutsus have a good scale, but Kisame is still superior when it comes to flooding whole areas and shot huge shark bullets which can absorb strength of the victims techniques to even get stronger. Mei Terumi used two Suiton techniques in order to stop Madaras wildfire extermination. Kisames shark bullet however would have absorbed it and would have gotten even stronger.

I agree kisame is the best, however i had to shout out Mei because when somebody like mei hasnt been called upon it scares me. Sure when it comes to feats nobody rivals kisame, however if there is somebody who does its Mei

 

[regii sanguinis]

for me, the 4 best suiton users in the series are:

Tobirama Senju -- he may not have a biggest suiton-based feat, yet he certainly has the most advance.. we are yet to see another shinobi who can create water and perform such a high level suiton jutsu from the water molecules in the air.. both Kisame and Mei have yet to demonstrate such feat.. Kisame created such a large scale water jutsu but that water was from his mouth which basically create out of chakra.. and we all know that it takes much more ability to create the water outside the body than to manipulate what is already available or expel it from their mouths.. also, one cannot say that Tobirama can't create a water based jutsu as large as Kisame did since during his fight with Hiruzen, they are confined in the Four Violet Flames Battle Encampment, so determining the possible extent of his suiton jutsus are basically impossible.. but for raw skill in manipulating water based jutsus, i pick Tobirama as the best..

Kisame Hoshikagi -- he has displayed the most powerful water based jutsus yet based on magnitude and size.. this is probably connected to his large chakra reserves.. i have to admit that the feats that he has shown with suiton jutsus are greater in magnitude than that of Tobirama, but this is probably because, he has shown more jutsus that Tobirama but that doesn't prove he has more skill that the Second Hokage..

Mei Terumi - she has displayed the greatest feats in suiton jutsus save the two before her.. her skill is also worth noting as she is the only one shown capable of creating a high level defensive suiton jutsu into a high level offensive suiton jutsu.. she has managed to counter most of Madara's fire based techniques on her own despite proving in panel that it takes almost an army of regular suiton users to counter just one of Madara's fire jutsu..

 

[Owarij]

I'm not asking who can create water from his mouth, but who can use suiton attacks without water source, something i've never seen Kisame capable to do. For me Kisame's advantage is his large chakra pool, which helps him to create a large water source, but in terms of skills, Mei for example has shown to be better since she is able to attack with her suiton with a huge suiton attack without water source

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same exact jutsu Tobirama used, same exact way

 

[Bogard]

Spoiler

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same exact jutsu Tobirama used, same exact way

True, but that's Darui, not Kisame. Anyway concerning Tobirama, i'm only going by hype. It's only Mei that i say is better in feats

 

[Omnipotent]

Tobirama was the second-best of the Senju clan in its' prime based on suiton mastery alone. Isn't that a feat?

 

[Owarij]

True, but that's Darui, not Kisame. Anyway concerning Tobirama, i'm only going by hype. It's only Mei that i say is better in feats

Kisame's exploding water wave is a prime example of using a jutsu with no water source....a jutsu on a much larger scale than a simple wall

 

[Blaze Release]

True, but that's Darui, not Kisame. Anyway concerning Tobirama, i'm only going by hype. It's only Mei that i say is better in feats

Not to get you hyped and try to cling to blasphemous claims but kakashi has also demonstrated this technique.

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Dont go crazy and say kakashi is the best though because i put him in the same category as zabuza, itachi, darui. Basically the second category. His main element is raiton xd

 

[Bogard]

Kisame's exploding water wave is a prime example of using a jutsu with no water source....a jutsu on a much larger scale than a simple wall

Sure, but that is not a suiton attack, it's just a jutsu to create water to put him at his advantage, exactly like Gaara do with his sand, and he can only create such a huge amount of water because of his chakra pool. It has nothing to do with skills. But if Kisame fight another suiton user for example(lets say a suiton user who can't even perform suiton without water source), even that jutsu won't be really helpfull.

In the contrary, the suiton user who usually can't perform suiton without water source will say thanks to kisame for creating that water source for him. That's why i want to see Kisame be able to create suiton attacks without water source to accept him as the best suiton user, what he has not shown to be able to do unfortunately

Dont go crazy and say kakashi is the best though because i put him in the same category as zabuza, itachi, darui. Basically the second category. His main element is raiton xd

I already knew he was capable to do that, but that has nothing to do with our current debate. But since we talk about it, i personally believe Zabuza is above Kakashi, Darui, who are above Itachi in suiton skills

 

[Owarij]

Sure, but that is not a suiton attack, it's just a jutsu to create water to put him at his advantage, exactly like Gaara do with his sand, and he can only create such a huge amount of water because of his chakra pool. It has nothing to do with skills. But if Kisame fight another suiton user for example(lets say a suiton user who can't even perform suiton without water source), even that jutsu won't be really helpfull.

In the contrary, the suiton user who usually can't perform suiton without water source will say thanks to kisame for creating that water source for him. That's why i want to see Kisame be able to create suiton attacks without water source to accept him as the best suiton user, what he has not shown to be able to do unfortunately

The exploding wave is A jutsu, meaning it's a suiton ability.. idk where you're coming from with this, But the argument we were having is can Kisame use a suiton ability with no existing water source? yes he did, On a MUCH larger scale than tobirama/darui etc have ever done

 

[SSW Imp]

Kisame is obviously a better suiton user than anyone else in the manga. He can create water jutsu without a water source. He has the best water jutsu shown in the manga. He has crazy amounts of chakra. Its crazy that most of you think tobirama is better suiton user than kisame.

Tobirama is all hype and has almost no proof to back up anything. Sure he was blood to Harashima but one was a wood user and the other was a sensor/st user.

All we can go off of is what we have seen and Kisane has shown to be the best suiton user in Naruto

 

[regii sanguinis]

Kisame is obviously a better suiton user than anyone else in the manga. He can create water jutsu without a water source.

if i may disagree my good sir.. Kisame has never created water in a place without water source.. what he did is he created water from his chakra are releasing it in his mouth.. almost every suiton user does this.. Tobirama on the other hand created water in a place without any existing body of water by using water molecules in the air.. we are yet to see a shinobi capable of doing what Tobirama did.. ^_^

 

[Superior]

So what you were saying is ... they were even more powerful than they were in their prime? And if they were scaled differently, then how can we even compare them? The only thing we have to go by is after Tobirama used but one B- rank suiton jutsu to counter the Sandaime Hokage's katon jutsu, the ANBU was left in awe and already placed him at Kage-level.

And once again, if Kabuto can improve on the Edo Tensei, then Orochimaru's version is not perfected.

Kabuto stated that Orochimaru perfected Edo Tensei. Kabuto also states that he gave his edos a conscious mind because only the Edo himself knows how to use his techniques to their full potential.
Not only are the power levels in Part I and Part II worlds apart; but Orochimaru did not give the Senju brothers control of their own bodies. He controlled them, and so their fighting skill was not what it could have been. Perhaps Orochimaru left them as mindless zombies because Tobirama invented Edo Tensei, and might have known to break the jutsu's control. Hashirama being his brother, might have also known how to break the jutsu.
I already made a post on this thread giving my opinion on the actual topic so I don't think I need to repeat myself on that.

 

[SSW Imp]

if i may disagree my good sir.. Kisame has never created water in a place without water source.. what he did is he created water from his chakra are releasing it in his mouth.. almost every suiton user does this.. Tobirama on the other hand created water in a place without any existing body of water by using water molecules in the air.. we are yet to see a shinobi capable of doing what Tobirama did.. ^_^

Him using the molecules in the air gets the same job done as creating to from the mouth. Kisame, Mei, Kakashi, and Tobirama have all used suiton jutsus without water. This is not a valid reason why Tobieama is better suiton user. Kisame created a jutsu that absorbs chakra.
Can Tobirama do that?
Nope.
creating to from water molecules or from chakra inside the body gets the job fone either way. Tobirama has not been said to have created different suiton jutsus, whereas Kisame has created 1000 hungry sharks, Great Shark Missile, Water Dome, Ect.

For someone to become a great suiton user not only do they have to show stong suiton feats, they also have to show enough skill and mastery of suiton to create original jutsus
Kisame show all of these characteristics