Itachi could have killed Obito...

[Sexy Steel]

I was not only referring to your recent post, but another you had actually made earlier on in this thread, a statement which was completely fallacious in the sense that it implied Itachi could've killed Obito in a one on one fight.

that's what i posted what i posted :sy:

i didn't quote anyone did i was simply correcting what i said. (or a change of opinion)

 

[OnPoint]

Thats basically it. To upload image's.

Tobi had sustained damage before izanagi here;

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He used izanagi here;

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When he went to get nagato's rinnegan after using genjutsu on konan to get this info he still had the injuries he had before izanagi;

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From what I understand, you're saying that Izanagi must be activated before the injury is received because that is how Danzō approached the situation. I am merely asking you if the manga has stated that Izanagi is limited to this approach only. Because from where I stand, the jutsu could infact be used the moment a critical blow has already been dealt; and it's that brief period of time which the jutsu can erase. That brief period of time in which the injury was inflicted becomes an illusion, my example being Obito vs Amaterasu. It just doesn't make sense to me that this forbidden jutsu would/could only be used for predictable scenarios. If it were so predictable, why sacrifice an eye for it? Why not do something else about it? I got the impression that Izanagi could also be used to troll the moments where Uchiha simply were not allowed to fail - moments that they could not foresee.

 

[TrollingSage]

Well yeah, Izanagi is only influencing the injuries received for that set period of time - for Obito, it would've been the 'injuries' he sustained while inside the Kami no Shisha, not for those picked up beforehand. What you're saying is true, but i'm asking you if it's only restricted to these examples. It doesn't make sense for people to be using Izanagi when they can simply avoid the attack. Has the manga said that Izanagi's effectiveness is only limited to when it's activated before the injury is sustained? And you have to consider Obito's example, because if what you're saying is completely set in stone, Obito can overcome Amaterasu without Kamui and without Izanagi. That makes him even more hax.

Well think about Sasuke vs Deidara. When Deidara was about to blow himself up and Sasuke could do nothing about it. Izanagi would have been useful then. Another example would be Madara's meteors or Chibaku tensei. All good examples of jutsus you can see coming but can do nothing to avoid them. Having izanagi would be useful in those scenarios.
And also don't forget the sharingan has pre cog abilties.
And about what Tobi did to the flames. Am pretty sure he simply warped it to his pocket dimension. It sounds like the obvious thing to do doesnt it?

 

[OnPoint]

Well think about Sasuke vs Deidara. When Deidara was about to blow himself up and Sasuke could do nothing about it. Izanagi would have been useful then. Another example would be Madara's meteors or Chibaku tensei. All good examples of jutsus you can see coming but can do nothing to avoid them. Having izanagi would be useful in those scenarios.

Refer to my most recent post.

 

[Blaze Release]

From what I understand, you're saying that Izanagi must be activated before the injury is received because that is how Danzō approached the situation. I am merely asking you if the manga has stated that Izanagi is limited to this approach only. Because from where I stand, the jutsu could infact be used the moment a critical blow has already been dealt; and it's that brief period of time which the jutsu can erase. That brief period of time in which the injury was inflicted becomes an illusion, my example being Obito vs Amaterasu. It just doesn't make sense to me that this forbidden jutsu would/could only be used for predictable scenarios. If it were so predictable, why sacrifice an eye for it? Why not do something else about it? I got the impression that Izanagi could also be used to troll the moments where Uchiha simply were not allowed to fail - moments that they could not see coming.

Never had the manga stated that its izanagi and the first introduction to this technique was danzo using it. At the bold part. Already been dealt means that its already happened before the illusion. Its not during the illusion that this attack landed on the opponent. You are basically saying that you can evade damage by using izanagi after the damage and this is incorrect.

Tobi still got his injuries he sustained before izanagi,
Danzo's eye's that close if you class it as damage wasnt affected after izanagi. His eyes was still shut

Anyway we have drifted abit so ill leave this

 

[OnPoint]

Nahhhh fam. Obito did it - telling you it was Izanagi. Otherwise, Obito > Amaterasu w/o Kamui & Izanagi. That is where this will be essentially left.

 

[Blaze Release]

Nahhhh fam. Obito did it - telling you it was Izanagi. Otherwise, Obito > Amaterasu w/o Kamui & Izanagi. That is where this will be essentially left.

It was either kamui or he could also extinguish it. So far to me it seems only those with amaterasu can extinguish the flames, however perhaps a mastered ms user can also even if they do not posses this technique. Kamui is also viable. This isnt the first time that kamui has warped ninjutsu. Kakashi has warped susano arrow, rasnegan, kage bunshin. Tobi was about to absorb konan's attack but instead slipped right through it.

 

[Smd]

itachi could have killed obito.

obito even said it himself.

so what is there to argue about?

haters and fanboys mad?

 

[xxSAGExx]

Wow. No. first off Itach made the pact with Tobi which was for Tobi to help him kill the Uchiha and leave the rest of Konoha alone and he'll join him. Tobi simply used Itachi's skills to gain tailed beasts. Tobi is a genius himself, he's the one who planned mostly everything that happened to this point. Yes he said if Itachi knew all of his secrets he would be dead, yet he knew way more about Itachi than even itachi thought he did (he told Sasuke this) So he could have killed off Itachi who didn't know everything about him. Plus you seem to lack the info we recently got about Madara who knows all of the Sharingan's secrets taught Tobi everything he knows.

Plus What itachi said about Madara (Tobi) being "a pathetic shell of his former self", He thought Tobi was Madara and Tobi does not have Madara's power and skill, Tobi even called himself a shell of his former self while faking to be Madara. Also Itachi said himself that both Izanagi and Izanami were used by the uchiha long ago even among thmselves so please tell me why would Tobi only know about 1 of the 2 when he was taught everything by Madara? Yeah I thought so.

Tobi Always had Wood element and able to summon Gedo Mazo (recent Chapters prove this). Tobi knows the jutsus Itachi can use and can break out of them so nothing Itachi could to but keep up their pact. If Tobi failed to keep the pact then Itachi said he will tell all 5 nations all of Akatski's(sp?) secrets and seeing how none of the countries really did anything about them until Sasuke attacked the kages, Tobi made full use of Itachi. It was only Konoha then Sand Village who did something to Akatski(sp?) and Sand didn't until Gaara was taken.

 

[OnPoint]

It was either kamui or he could also extinguish it. So far to me it seems only those with amaterasu can extinguish the flames, however perhaps a mastered ms user can also even if they do not posses this technique. Kamui is also viable. This isnt the first time that kamui has warped ninjutsu. Kakashi has warped susano arrow, rasnegan, kage bunshin. Tobi was about to absorb konan's attack but instead slipped right through it.

The mastered MS theory is plausible but entirely speculative. It couldn't have been Kamui since the flames had already latched themselves onto Obito's body. Could he really suck up the black flames into his pocket dimension? I doubt it. Konan made it clear that he had to be attacked whilst his intangibility remained turned off. And he couldn't have phased out of it since they would've remained on his body even in the other dimension. He was screaming, so we know the heat affected him for a measurable period of time. He came back and his clothes hadn't been scorched. Can Amaterasu not even burn through light clothing? If it were Kamui, he would still have some burn marks. For me, Izanagi is most likely the big secret he kept from Itachi, seeing as Konan (who had done a comprehensive amount of research into Obito's Kamui and the like) was also caught off guard by his use of it.

 

[James Harrsion]

Do People forget Obito could summon Gedo Mazo?
Gedo Mazo > Itachi..

 

[Orochimagus]

There is no other big secret but Izanami. If Konan was aware of Kamui and how it worked, so was the more reliable Itachi. Uchiha Itachi made a lot of mistakes and failures, but outright stupidity is not one of them. He would have known about Obito's phasing so this is why he made it a surprise attack. He did manage to kill Obito but didn't count in Izanagi. Also take into account that Izanagi is introduced shortly after that. Big techniques are always foreshadowed. Quit being unreasonable.

And Wood Release > Uchiha techs. Senju > Uchiha. Senju + Uchiha = Obito so...Obito > Itachi. There is no way Itachi could handle him.

 

[Microsword57]

Mangekyou Sharingan Itachi would defeat Mangekyou Sharingan Obito. I notice when people often argue that Obito would defeat Itachi they use Kamui as a counter to 2 of Itachi's most feared techniques. Amaterasu and Susanoo. These two techniques are not needed during this battle. Everyone that is in favor of Obito speaks with words such as "How would Itachi counter Kamui", "Itachi can't even touch Obito" and "All Obito needs to do is touch Itachi and that's the match." I will be repsonding to all of these messages and all messages similar to these. How would Itachi defeat Obito? This will also be answered in this post.

Spoiler

Spoiler

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Shadow Clones are important in Itachi's arsenal. With the use of these "teleporting to Itachi and absorbing him" becomes much more difficult than mentioned. If their are 2 clones of Itachi and the Orignal Itachi roaming the area the chance of the Orignal Itachi being noticed is low. Now with the use of these clones Itachi can stay on offense while shrouding his existence. Absorbing a clone of Itachi would cause far more problems for Obito than known. Shadow clones are known to give their experience's directly to the User[

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]. If a Clone is absorbed the experience of being absorbed and being in the other Dimension would now be apart of his intelligence. This would give Itachi an estimate of how long it takes Obito to absorb him and what the other Dimension is like. If a Clone is stuck within the Kamui Dimension Itachi and his clone would easily simulate the Scenario with Kakashi and Naruto[

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]. This would make it so that every time Obito attempts to be intangible by sending parts of his body to the Kamui Dimension the Clone would Assault. Itachi would also have the option of causing damage to Obito as soon as he Absorbs a Clone using his Clone Explosion Technique[

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]. During the absorbtion of a clone Itachi would Simulate again another Scenario. Instead this would be the Scenario with Konan[

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]. As she was being absorbed she exploded[

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]. These are the damages from the explosion even though Obito absorbed most of the Technique[

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]. Both weakness of Kamui would be exploited through the use of Shadow Clones while still masking Itachi's presence. Being Tangible during absorption and being intangible would both be exploited. To add on to Obito's dangers is Genjutsu.

Spoiler

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Itachi has a Mastery of Genjutsu. Now I know simply "stating the obvious" and "talking about his powers" will not prove my point but you do indeed have to look closer at what Genjutsu does. Genjutsu causes Apparitions and Facades through the use of the Opponents five senses. Itachi specializes and taking advantage of the human ability of sight. Obito being able to see would still be vulnerable to Genjutsu even if his body is not vulnerable to physical attacks. Now with Obito being under Itachi's Genjutsu his chance of "teleporting to Itachi and absorbing him" is greatly reduced. Obito's senses will be playing tricks on his mind. This will cause him to see only what Itachi want's him to see and if Itachi does not want Obito to see him then Obito will not be capable of doing so. Being under the influence of Itachi's Genjutsu would give Itachi the chance to shut down Obito's Intangiblity. This is possible for Itachi because he can stack Genjutsu over Genjutsu. Even though Kabuto was under Izanami, Itachi used another Genjutsu to control his body while his mind was distracted[

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]. Theoretically Itachi would be able to force Obito to make his body Tangible.

Spoiler

The combination of the two techniques, Shadow Clones and Genjutsu would reduce Obito's chances of finding Itachi to touch him and Absorb him. With Obito's eyes playing tricks on him and their being more than 1 Itachi his chances of teleporting the wrong one would be largely increased and this would give Itachi the chance to use his clones for explosion, information and/or Assaults in the Kamui Dimension. Genjutsu and Shadow Clones together would imitate a situation like this. Their are 3 cards turned backwards so you can only see the red side of the card. You have to find the Queen of Hearts, but you are wearing a blindfold, and the cards and moving around the room. Every time you touch the wrong card or touch something that is not the card you get shocked. The Cards are Itachi and his Clones. The Cards being Turned backwards are a representation of the Clones being identical to Itachi. The blindfold is the Genjutsu. You represent Obito. The cards moving around are the Clones and Itachi in motion. While you do have a chance of getting the Queen your chances are extremely low. If you did not have a blindfold but the cards were still turned backwards you would still have a hard time finding the card. If the cards were turned frontward but you had a blindfold on and could not see through it you would have a hard time touching the right card, you would have a hard time even touching the card. With a combination of the two your chances are way to low to rely on.

Spoiler

Rebuttals to possible responses, "Obito knows not to look into Itachi eyes so Itachi can not get Obito in a genjutsu." Itachi has shown to put Opponents in genjutsu through simply pointing[

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](Ephemeral). Kakashi had information about not looking in Itachi eyes and was put in Tsukuyomi[

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]. Naruto had information about Looking in his eyes and was put in a Genjutsu through Ephemeral[

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]. Sasuke knows the most about Itachi's Genjutsu and was put in 3[

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][

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][

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]. By now it should be known that in a fight with Itachi you will be put in a Genjutsu. One was Tsukuyomi included. "Obito has Izanagi so even if Itachi lands a deadly attack Obito can make it an Illusion." Itachi possesses Izanagi's Partner jutsu[

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]. Izanami is a Jutsu made to force an Opponent to except their destiny and through the backgrounds of their jutus has been shown to be the only counter to Izanagi[

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][

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].

Note#This is not aimed towards Obito possessing Rinnegan, Gezo, etc.

 

[Freaky Uzumaki]

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[Scryed]

Though with that statement I think that he meant that if Itachi knew about his secret(which I believe was Izanagi) he would've most likely come up with a plan that would have actually overcome Izanagi. Or that if he didn't have Izanagi he could've been dead though I'm more inclined to believe he would've made a plan that wouldn't fail due to Obito's Izanagi.

As for the whole vs thing with knowledge, I do believe Itachi has what it takes to pull off a win. Though he doesn't have technique to continously spam Obito with for 5 mins, the techniques that he does have are practically techniques that might force him to use Izanagi if he's hit by them. The problem in Itachi's case is landing a hit but through the use of those explosive shadow clones, he should be able to pull it off by causing confusion.

As for genjutsu, not sure how this'll work out since they're both highly skilled with it. Itachi's was shown through all the variations he had with it and Obito's through the few that he was shown to have used that were also good enough to even place a perfect jinjuuriki under his control.


It's also important not to forget that if Obito does warp Itachi in the manga, it'll practically just change the battlefield. If he still plans to kill him, then he'll have to go into his dimension himself to fight Itachi the same way he had been fighting with him previously. If he just keeps him in there, then he would have trouble when he engages in combat against other opponents since Itachi might still be waiting for him in the other dimension just incase he chooses to send some of his body parts into the other dimension to become "intangible".

In 1v1 fights we have at the base, we don't include other shinobi so if Obito warps someone, it would count as a win here since the opponent won't be able to come back. Pretty much as if those two were the last two people on earth. In the manga, even if he warps someone, it won't be a win if they'll still cause problems in fights that he could engage with against other people.

In other words, MS Obito didn't have a powerful offence that would get rid of an opponent for good(excluding Mokuton). Mokuton could be more than useful against Itachi's Susanoo if he uses it to attack from below.

 

[khaydz5]

Mangekyou Sharingan Itachi would defeat Mangekyou Sharingan Obito. I notice when people often argue that Obito would defeat Itachi they use Kamui as a counter to 2 of Itachi's most feared techniques. Amaterasu and Susanoo. These two techniques are not needed during this battle. Everyone that is in favor of Obito speaks with words such as "How would Itachi counter Kamui", "Itachi can't even touch Obito" and "All Obito needs to do is touch Itachi and that's the match." I will be repsonding to all of these messages and all messages similar to these. How would Itachi defeat Obito? This will also be answered in this post.

Spoiler

Spoiler

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Shadow Clones are important in Itachi's arsenal. With the use of these "teleporting to Itachi and absorbing him" becomes much more difficult than mentioned. If their are 2 clones of Itachi and the Orignal Itachi roaming the area the chance of the Orignal Itachi being noticed is low. Now with the use of these clones Itachi can stay on offense while shrouding his existence. Absorbing a clone of Itachi would cause far more problems for Obito than known. Shadow clones are known to give their experience's directly to the User[

You must be registered for see links

]. If a Clone is absorbed the experience of being absorbed and being in the other Dimension would now be apart of his intelligence. This would give Itachi an estimate of how long it takes Obito to absorb him and what the other Dimension is like. If a Clone is stuck within the Kamui Dimension Itachi and his clone would easily simulate the Scenario with Kakashi and Naruto[

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]. This would make it so that every time Obito attempts to be intangible by sending parts of his body to the Kamui Dimension the Clone would Assault. Itachi would also have the option of causing damage to Obito as soon as he Absorbs a Clone using his Clone Explosion Technique[

You must be registered for see links

]. During the absorbtion of a clone Itachi would Simulate again another Scenario. Instead this would be the Scenario with Konan[

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]. As she was being absorbed she exploded[

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]. These are the damages from the explosion even though Obito absorbed most of the Technique[

You must be registered for see links

]. Both weakness of Kamui would be exploited through the use of Shadow Clones while still masking Itachi's presence. Being Tangible during absorption and being intangible would both be exploited. To add on to Obito's dangers is Genjutsu.

Spoiler

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Itachi has a Mastery of Genjutsu. Now I know simply "stating the obvious" and "talking about his powers" will not prove my point but you do indeed have to look closer at what Genjutsu does. Genjutsu causes Apparitions and Facades through the use of the Opponents five senses. Itachi specializes and taking advantage of the human ability of sight. Obito being able to see would still be vulnerable to Genjutsu even if his body is not vulnerable to physical attacks. Now with Obito being under Itachi's Genjutsu his chance of "teleporting to Itachi and absorbing him" is greatly reduced. Obito's senses will be playing tricks on his mind. This will cause him to see only what Itachi want's him to see and if Itachi does not want Obito to see him then Obito will not be capable of doing so. Being under the influence of Itachi's Genjutsu would give Itachi the chance to shut down Obito's Intangiblity. This is possible for Itachi because he can stack Genjutsu over Genjutsu. Even though Kabuto was under Izanami, Itachi used another Genjutsu to control his body while his mind was distracted[

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]. Theoretically Itachi would be able to force Obito to make his body Tangible.

Spoiler

The combination of the two techniques, Shadow Clones and Genjutsu would reduce Obito's chances of finding Itachi to touch him and Absorb him. With Obito's eyes playing tricks on him and their being more than 1 Itachi his chances of teleporting the wrong one would be largely increased and this would give Itachi the chance to use his clones for explosion, information and/or Assaults in the Kamui Dimension. Genjutsu and Shadow Clones together would imitate a situation like this. Their are 3 cards turned backwards so you can only see the red side of the card. You have to find the Queen of Hearts, but you are wearing a blindfold, and the cards and moving around the room. Every time you touch the wrong card or touch something that is not the card you get shocked. The Cards are Itachi and his Clones. The Cards being Turned backwards are a representation of the Clones being identical to Itachi. The blindfold is the Genjutsu. You represent Obito. The cards moving around are the Clones and Itachi in motion. While you do have a chance of getting the Queen your chances are extremely low. If you did not have a blindfold but the cards were still turned backwards you would still have a hard time finding the card. If the cards were turned frontward but you had a blindfold on and could not see through it you would have a hard time touching the right card, you would have a hard time even touching the card. With a combination of the two your chances are way to low to rely on.

Spoiler

Rebuttals to possible responses, "Obito knows not to look into Itachi eyes so Itachi can not get Obito in a genjutsu." Itachi has shown to put Opponents in genjutsu through simply pointing[

You must be registered for see links

](Ephemeral). Kakashi had information about not looking in Itachi eyes and was put in Tsukuyomi[

You must be registered for see links

]. Naruto had information about Looking in his eyes and was put in a Genjutsu through Ephemeral[

You must be registered for see links

]. Sasuke knows the most about Itachi's Genjutsu and was put in 3[

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. By now it should be known that in a fight with Itachi you will be put in a Genjutsu. One was Tsukuyomi included. "Obito has Izanagi so even if Itachi lands a deadly attack Obito can make it an Illusion." Itachi possesses Izanagi's Partner jutsu[

You must be registered for see links

]. Izanami is a Jutsu made to force an Opponent to except their destiny and through the backgrounds of their jutus has been shown to be the only counter to Izanagi[

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][

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].

Note#This is not aimed towards Obito possessing Rinnegan, Gezo, etc.

lol you did your research for itachi. but how about obito? you can't make an assumption just by reviewing all of the skills of one side. you have to know both sides. how much do you know exactly about obito?

and yes, obito can counter amaterasu and susanoo with his default jutsu, kamui.

 

[Blaze Release]

The mastered MS theory is plausible but entirely speculative. It couldn't have been Kamui since the flames had already latched themselves onto Obito's body. Could he really suck up the black flames into his pocket dimension? I doubt it. Konan made it clear that he had to be attacked whilst his intangibility remained turned off. And he couldn't have phased out of it since they would've remained on his body even in the other dimension. He was screaming, so we know the heat affected him for a measurable period of time. He came back and his clothes hadn't been scorched. Can Amaterasu not even burn through light clothing? If it were Kamui, he would still have some burn marks. For me, Izanagi is most likely the big secret he kept from Itachi, seeing as Konan (who had done a comprehensive amount of research into Obito's Kamui and the like) was also caught off guard by his use of it.

Couldn't have been izanagi even after ive explained it. Ill instead just upload a DB entry which hints towards kamui as the possible answer

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DB hints towards kamui. Secondly after izanagi works, he wouldve had to have used it before amaterasu therefore when he himself is an illusion he trolls amaterasu.

Apart from the fact that its hinted that its kamui, it further states that tobi doesnt use the ms in the presence of other akatsuki members. We do know that he used in the midst of konan/deva path though even then he was a few metres away he used it.

So basically, the DB has revealed that he is careful around akatsuki members when he uses the ms which we can translate as kamui. Db secondly hints that its kamui that he used to evade amaterasu. So what tobi said when he talked about hiding secrets from itachi otherwise he would be dead right now, links with the 2 evidence in the DB.

The secrets is the ms that he doesnt use in the presence of akatsuki members. Its this secret (ms that we can translate as kamui) is what allowed him to evade amaterasu. Which brings me to the fact that the DB supports not many people even knowing about kamui. Kamui far outweighs izanagi if we were to speculate

And Khaydz5 you need to calm down

 

[Nagatoballer]

Let me answer your question with an analogy. If I made a pact with you to never have *** with your wife, and didn't do so for years, but then had *** with your wife after you died, but before your body was cold, then I didn't care about the pact. I cared about you reacting to me breaking the pact.

Wow this is stupid u proved the other guys point if he dies that woman is no longer be his wife so u r not having *** with his wife cause she is now a widow so there is no point in keeping the pact

 

[Nagatoballer]

The only counter to obito/tobi is kakashi only kumi can counter kumi that is what this last fight is showing us none of itachis moves would work on tobi if u say other wise u r STUPID unless itachi can make 600 billion bomb clones he is screwed it's that simple tobi was never scared of itachi or of Nagato he just wanted to use them as long as he could

 

[minato12345]

good theory